Microsoft Draws Flak For Pushing Windows 10 On PC Users

rezerekted

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No one in that thread had an issue with you running 3rd party programs. The issue was you fucking up your OS, then turning around and blaming Microsoft for it. If you use 3rd party programs, you need to take responsibility when you break shit. Pretty sad to see you so butt-hurt over what is ultimately very straight-forward and common-sense advice.

IMO it's not needed anyway. There has really only been one legitimate case where 10 would install without user interaction, and that is when they changed it from an optional update to a recommended update. Anyone who had the box checked that says "Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates", as well as having important updates set to install automatically, ended up having the Windows 10 update start automatically. Even in that case though, it's just one box in Windows Update settings that needed to be unchecked.

I'm not butt hurt and I knew my subject title would wind some of you up. But, blaming me for what a program did is just victim blaming 101 and is why I continued to respond. It's not like Microsoft is innocent of fucking up people's PCs either so it actually made sense to point the finger at them considering I had just got updates from them two days before. I was suspect of them and didn't outright blame them so more bullshit from you and your ilk.
 
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I'm not butt hurt and I knew my subject title would wind some of you up. But, blaming me for what a program did is just victim blaming 101 and is why I continued to respond. It's not like Microsoft is innocent of fucking up people's PCs either so it actually made sense to point the finger at them considering I had just got updates from them two days before. I was suspect of them and didn't outright blame them so more bullshit from you and your ilk.

Please, whatever you do, never try Linux.

EDIT: Did I really just read that bolded part?
 

rezerekted

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Please, whatever you do, never try Linux.

EDIT: Did I really just read that bolded part?

Beem using Linux snce 2001 and have it installed on my main PC in dual boot and have a bootable USB stick with numerous Linux distros on it. Send in the next clown.

Oh, and yes, I have had Linux updates fuck things up. I suppose that is my fault too, eh? <roll eyes>
 
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heatlesssun

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"achieving their goal" but turning people off. I can throw dogshit in my neighbors pool and "achieve my goal" to do so, but it's not going to engender any good will.

Temporary, hollow victory, because their future is turning black with every longtime user they piss off. Users and mindshare they'll never get back. Users that will avoid any of their other consumer products, and jump ship from Windows at the first opportunity.

Some have been making statements like these about Windows for 30 years. This is far from the first time that there's been controversy surrounding Windows and far from the first time one of those controversies has anti-Windows/Microsoft folks predicting the "End of Windows". 400 million active installs in one year is anything but a hollow victory. I'm not saying that this upgrade process has worked like it should. But for everyone of those people Microsoft has pissed off, how many did it not? See, that's how this always works. There is the other side. The vast number of people that never say anything online and don't have problems. There's no way that this many copies of Windows 10 have gotten deployed if it were anywhere near as problematic as bitching in threads like this go. Again, that's not to say there aren't problems, just that if they were that bad there's just no way this many people would be able to use Windows 10. Or that every Windows 7/8.1 should have been busted by the upgrade process.
 

DPI

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Some have been making statements like these about Windows for 30 years. This is far from the first time that there's been controversy surrounding Windows and far from the first time one of those controversies has anti-Windows/Microsoft folks predicting the "End of Windows". 400 million active installs in one year is anything but a hollow victory. I'm not saying that this upgrade process has worked like it should. But for everyone of those people Microsoft has pissed off, how many did it not? See, that's how this always works. There is the other side. The vast number of people that never say anything online and don't have problems. There's no way that this many copies of Windows 10 have gotten deployed if it were anywhere near as problematic as bitching in threads like this go. Again, that's not to say there aren't problems, just that if they were that bad there's just no way this many people would be able to use Windows 10. Or that every Windows 7/8.1 should have been busted by the upgrade process.

Marketing-shill TLDR. Microsoft, from the get go, should have had a huge button to click that read; "I don't want Windows 10, ever, don't ask again, and leave me alone about it." Their reckless, strong-arm approach has gotten them unnecessary bad PR, end of story.
 
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pothb

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It won't be the end of window, it's too big to just fail. Not to mention these upgrades aren't on enterprise, afaik, which is window's biggest market.

It might lessen in homes though... depends on OpenGL and alt APIs... if they ever get ahead of directx, that might affect windows much more. As it is though, gaming is just too big on windows.
 

rezerekted

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Gibson says GWX Control Panel pops up on him, that is because he enabled the monitoring mode, which you don't need to do to stop Win10 upgrade.
 

heatlesssun

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Marketing-shill TLDR. Microsoft, from the get go, should have had a huge button to click that read; "I don't want Windows 10, ever, don't ask again, and leave me alone about it." Their reckless, strong-arm approach has gotten them unnecessary bad PR, end of story.

And I never said otherwise. All I am saying is that if you want to make an omelet some eggs will get cracked. Upgrading to Windows 10 was the first time for many millions ever upgrading a Windows OS. That was going to be at least somewhat problematic anyway. And sure, "I don't ever want Windows 10, don't ever ask again." should have been an option. Then some would be trying to figure out how to do it after they changed their minds and then saying that Microsoft was intentionally making them pay for a free upgrade.

Call me a shill all you want, there's always at least two sides to these stories. All you ever talk about is one of them.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Marketing-shill TLDR. Microsoft, from the get go, should have had a huge button to click that read; "I don't want Windows 10, ever, don't ask again, and leave me alone about it." Their reckless, strong-arm approach has gotten them unnecessary bad PR, end of story.

I'd argue it hasn't gotten them enough bad PR. This type of action ought to be business ending, as it destroys any and all trust.

As mentioned in that article, using the Windows Update system, something intended to protect users against exploits, and fix bugs to improve their products, to shove something users don't want down their throats was a SERIOUSLY bad call. Now people don't trust updates anymore, and many have them turned off. How many more botnets, DDOS attacks and how much more identity theft is going to result from this?

The thing is, I actually kind of like Windows 10. Once I turn off all the active-tablet like tiles, disable all cloud integration, and make sure I run only with a local user account (I actually deleted my MS account just to be sure) and set all usage statistics settings to their minimum levels, and install an alternative browser, its possibly the best Windows version I have ever used, though I only use Windows for games, everything else I do from Linux Mint, so I maybe don't have to spend as much time in it as many others. It's certainly an improvement over 8, and is more efficient on limited hardware than 7.

My biggest issue right now is that NIC teaming (both with Intel's drivers and with Microsofts command line tool) is still broken.

I don't even really need NIC teaming in Windows, but I do in ly Linux desktop. This means that every time I boot into Windows to launch a game, I have to bend down behind my desk, unplug my two network cables that go to the Teamed ports on my switch, and plug in a single cable into the primary port. Every time I have to do this I curse Microsoft, and have been for some time now.

Apart from that though, Windows 10 isn't too bad. I kind of like it.

The way they strong-armed users to upgrade - however - was horrendous, and completely and totally inexcusable. The fact that even one person thought that this was OK, let alone an entire corporation shows that something is DEEPLY flawed in Redmond. I really feel they deserve a several billion dollar class action settlement falling in their laps over this. It really feels borderline criminal.
 

daglesj

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As an IT support guy I have made a small fortune sorting out the Windows 10 mess for customers. It's been great.

Most of them had zero clue about Windows 10 installing or upgrading.
Most of them didn't really want it.
A lot of them called me thinking they had a virus!
Several have asked me to roll them back.
Many have asked me to tidy up and make it "look more like 7".

Not one has been impressed by the whole situation.

Chances are it will all kick in again when the next big update comes out and wipes all the changes again. Brilliant!!!
 
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DeathFromBelow

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Does this mean their EULA and it's provisions about forced arbitration/no class actions can now be ignored?

I'd like to see some sort of real legal action to force Microsoft to fully extend Windows 7 support for another 5 years or something like that. Individual or class action lawsuits for financial damages probably wont have much impact on Microsoft's behavior, they're too big.
 

Shotglass01

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Since we introduced (several ridiculous versions of) a new upgrade experience for Windows 10, we've received (overwhelmingly negative) feedback that (most) some of (we don't give a crap about) our valued customers found it (deplorable) confusing. We've been (lazily sitting on our asses) working hard to incorporate their (lawsuit) feedback and this week, we'll (attempt to) roll out a new upgrade experience with clear options to (not be sued again) upgrade now, schedule a time, or decline the free offer. (Thanks for nothing)

Went ahead and suggested some edits to their quote on the matter.
 

ianken

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I've got four machines on a mix of 8 and 7 and while they have been spammed with the upgrade notices they have not be magically upgraded without my input. How does this happen?
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I've got four machines on a mix of 8 and 7 and while they have been spammed with the upgrade notices they have not be magically upgraded without my input. How does this happen?

1.) People getting the popup box with either "now" or "later" on it, and assuming "later" means they will be asked again later, and just clicking it to make the box go away, and waking up the next morning to Windows 10.

2.) The cases where clicking the X in the top corner of the upgrade nag box went ahead and installed Windows 10.

I never ran in to any of these myself either, but they are pretty well documented.
 

MacLeod

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I've got four machines on a mix of 8 and 7 and while they have been spammed with the upgrade notices they have not be magically upgraded without my input. How does this happen?

Most people aren't quite as tech savvy as we are. They use the computers at work for the programs they need and they browse the internet at home. Most of the guys at my work have never even heard of Windows 10. That's why several of them have had the " upgrade" and now the 2 main programs we use are having compatibility issues and generally working like ass. Forced upgrades are one thing but when they're sliding in am entirely new OS is shitty.
 

Nenu

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Does this mean their EULA and it's provisions about forced arbitration/no class actions can now be ignored?

I'd like to see some sort of real legal action to force Microsoft to fully extend Windows 7 support for another 5 years or something like that. Individual or class action lawsuits for financial damages probably wont have much impact on Microsoft's behavior, they're too big.
Yes.
The EULA doesnt apply if you havent agreed to it.
 

tetris42

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Yes.
The EULA doesnt apply if you havent agreed to it.
I'd be surprised if the Windows 7 EULA doesn't have language that says they're allowed to do crap like this however. So whether or not you agree to the Windows 10 EULA could be irrelevant if you already agreed to Windows 7 / 8.
 

Nenu

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I'd be surprised if the Windows 7 EULA doesn't have language that says they're allowed to do crap like this however. So whether or not you agree to the Windows 10 EULA could be irrelevant if you already agreed to Windows 7 / 8.
Once the new software is installed the old EULA is redundant.
When the update does not allow you to agree to it before it installs, its EULA is redundant.
For what is installed on the PC, there is no EULA that has been agreed upon and the installation was performed without permission.
 

signalpuke

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meh lol, I met him about 20 years ago. Dude is busy with stuff. At least he has a solution to this Win10 bullshit.
 

tetris42

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Once the new software is installed the old EULA is redundant.
When the update does not allow you to agree to it before it installs, its EULA is redundant.
For what is installed on the PC, there is no EULA that has been agreed upon and the installation was performed without permission.
The Windows 10 EULA would not apply, correct. However, I'm pretty sure a lawyer would argue that you granted permission for this when you installed Windows 7 and these are all consequences of the Windows 7 EULA. So depending on how it was written, you could still be on Windows 7 EULA terms. I've seen companies employ (and try to enforce) the most diabolical stuff imaginable in end user contract. Now of course EULAs are not legal documents and a judge can decide this is all bullshit (hence one of the reasons companies prefer arbiters), but I wouldn't underestimate what Microsoft lawyers have been able to put together.
 

Nenu

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The Windows 10 EULA would not apply, correct. However, I'm pretty sure a lawyer would argue that you granted permission for this when you installed Windows 7 and these are all consequences of the Windows 7 EULA. So depending on how it was written, you could still be on Windows 7 EULA terms. I've seen companies employ (and try to enforce) the most diabolical stuff imaginable in end user contract. Now of course EULAs are not legal documents and a judge can decide this is all bullshit (hence one of the reasons companies prefer arbiters), but I wouldn't underestimate what Microsoft lawyers have been able to put together.
They could not argue that software which includes a new EULA can be installed without a users permission. They need to have been allowed to read and agree to the EULA before progressing.
And the process of agreeing/declining must be clear cut, not deceptive.

From the point of installation, the new EULA is in force, the old EULA was written for the older installation which is no longer present.
No part of the old EULA can permit this and the court must protect consumers from deceptive practices.
 
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ta_erog

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So they are doing what every software developer does . . get people to upgrade to there newest version become it saves them allot of time, effort and money. Big surprise. I work at such a company that does not give you a choice and rams the new version down everyone's throat . . . yet you will never hear of people complaining because it is not as cool as bashing Microsoft for doing what everyone else is doing.. Fuck ya.
 

Nenu

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So they are doing what every software developer does . . get people to upgrade to there newest version become it saves them allot of time, effort and money. Big surprise. I work at such a company that does not give you a choice and rams the new version down everyone's throat . . . yet you will never hear of people complaining because it is not as cool as bashing Microsoft for doing what everyone else is doing.. Fuck ya.
Do your updates change the look, feel, function of the OS, remove programs you need and prevent some of your older hardware from functioning?
Do your updates require a new EULA?
This is an operating system, not a program.
 

ta_erog

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Do your updates change the look, feel, function of the OS, remove programs you need and prevent some of your older hardware from functioning?
Do your updates require a new EULA?
This is an operating system, not a program.

YES, The base OS is not the main interface most business systems spend any time on. They spends 99% of there time IN a few programs - the OS is effectively irreverent - since the OS is typically managed and locked down.

New EULA you kidding right ??? every update, even small ones, and MS wise the differences between win 8 and 10 are almost not worth mentioning on the user side . .there is more from 7 to 10 but mostly in interface (start menu). "older hardware from functioning" a VERY rare problem. . . In fact quite a few have installed it on older laptops to speed them up from slow vista or even 7. )

To answer your question our programs tend to be the only applications the consumers use (effectively a single interface to that system, or a suite.) The base OS is rarely seen at all (if at all). And this goes to other developers also, Allot of professional programs that entire institutions use ie healthcare, or most database/and data entry jobs etc. And we change things on wims. The customers hate it but they have no recourse. what are you going to do if you own the market. . . .and second to only to Microsoft in revenue. heh
This is Far more critical to day to day work then a cranky neophyte home user. And far more common . . .and like I said hilarious that Microsoft gets all the crap.. but really helpful for everyone else.
 

Nenu

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YES, The base OS is not the main interface most business systems spend any time on. They spends 99% of there time IN a few programs - the OS is effectively irreverent - since the OS is typically managed and locked down.
This has nothing to do with our PCs at home.

New EULA you kidding right ??? every update, even small ones, and MS wise the differences between win 8 and 10 are almost not worth mentioning on the user side . .there is more from 7 to 10 but mostly in interface (start menu). "older hardware from functioning" a VERY rare problem. . . In fact quite a few have installed it on older laptops to speed them up from slow vista or even 7. )
This is an OS update from 7 to 10 or 8.1 to 10.
It comes with an EULA because it is not a minor change. It can have a major impact on peoples "own" computers that are set up how they like and can take a long time to reach that state.
So no, not kidding.

To answer your question our programs tend to be the only applications the consumers use (effectively a single interface to that system, or a suite.) The base OS is rarely seen at all (if at all). And this goes to other developers also, Allot of professional programs that entire institutions use ie healthcare, or most database/and data entry jobs etc. And we change things on wims. The customers hate it but they have no recourse. what are you going to do if you own the market. . . .and second to only to Microsoft in revenue. heh
This is Far more critical to day to day work then a cranky neophyte home user. And far more common . . .and like I said hilarious that Microsoft gets all the crap.. but really helpful for everyone else.
Nothing like an OS upgrade then.
 

ta_erog

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This has nothing to do with our PCs at home.


This is an OS update from 7 to 10 or 8.1 to 10.
It comes with an EULA because it is not a minor change. It can have a major impact on peoples "own" computers that are set up how they like and can take a long time to reach that state.
So no, not kidding.


Nothing like an OS upgrade then.
Hay cheese ball I cant help that you can't read what I said . . .

"It comes with an EULA because it is not a minor change" - and point??? if you read what I said we change the EULA even ON minor changes.
"It can have a major impact on peoples "own" computers that are set up how they like and can take a long time to reach that state" - maybe they should learn now to use them. But that is irrelevant to my point entirely since who owns the computer does not mean anything it is the changes made that can effect productivity..
"This has nothing to do with our PCs at home." don't care . . has nothing to do with what I was saying.
"Nothing like an OS upgrade then." - you have no idea. Effectively any interface this is your primary interface IS effectually what we are talking about here. IF a user never sees the underlying OS a OS upgrade is irrelevant But a update to there main interface IS VERY relevant !! (and is exactly what you point out IS the problem " . . are set up how they like . . " and that is changed.)

.
So here is my first post again so you can read it :p
"So they are doing what every software developer does . . get people to upgrade to there newest version become it saves them allot of time, effort and money. Big surprise. I work at such a company that does not give you a choice and rams the new version down everyone's throat . . . yet you will never hear of people complaining because it is not as cool as bashing Microsoft for doing what everyone else is doing.. Fuck ya."

note "So they are doing what every software developer does", Forced upgrade to save company $$, M$ bashing . . .
That is what I commented on . . . could give 2 Fcks about who owns the system, if it is a OS or not (because irrelevant ) or about EULA as they can put anything they want in it (big, small, or no update required).
I commented on how this is COMMON in the industry, because it is . . it is my day job and I have worked at quite a few large companies over the years (read some of the largest computer software and hardware).

I find it funny the Microsoft gets all the crap. that home users are so clueless. and that you bothered to argue the point. :p
 

Nenu

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Hay cheese ball I cant help that you can't read what I said . . .

"It comes with an EULA because it is not a minor change" - and point??? if you read what I said we change the EULA even ON minor changes.
"It can have a major impact on peoples "own" computers that are set up how they like and can take a long time to reach that state" - maybe they should learn now to use them. But that is irrelevant to my point entirely since who owns the computer does not mean anything it is the changes made that can effect productivity..
"This has nothing to do with our PCs at home." don't care . . has nothing to do with what I was saying.
"Nothing like an OS upgrade then." - you have no idea. Effectively any interface this is your primary interface IS effectually what we are talking about here. IF a user never sees the underlying OS a OS upgrade is irrelevant But a update to there main interface IS VERY relevant !! (and is exactly what you point out IS the problem " . . are set up how they like . . " and that is changed.)

.
So here is my first post again so you can read it :p
"So they are doing what every software developer does . . get people to upgrade to there newest version become it saves them allot of time, effort and money. Big surprise. I work at such a company that does not give you a choice and rams the new version down everyone's throat . . . yet you will never hear of people complaining because it is not as cool as bashing Microsoft for doing what everyone else is doing.. Fuck ya."

note "So they are doing what every software developer does", Forced upgrade to save company $$, M$ bashing . . .
That is what I commented on . . . could give 2 Fcks about who owns the system, if it is a OS or not (because irrelevant ) or about EULA as they can put anything they want in it (big, small, or no update required).
I commented on how this is COMMON in the industry, because it is . . it is my day job and I have worked at quite a few large companies over the years (read some of the largest computer software and hardware).

I find it funny the Microsoft gets all the crap. that home users are so clueless. and that you bothered to argue the point. :p
lol
Yep and you still are not on topic.
Its nothing like what is happening to peoples PCs at home, without permission, that MS is directly responsible for.
 

ta_erog

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lol
Yep and you still are not on topic.
Its nothing like what is happening to peoples PCs at home, without permission, that MS is directly responsible for.

So which is it . .disagree with what I said? or is it now off topic? Seems like you changed your tune a bit there.

And made much more of a simple (true) statement of the current industry then was needed . . . but if you like I can lead you on a bit more since you have no real counter argument and just crying now with "off topic".

And Go!
 
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