Microsoft Draws Flak For Pushing Windows 10 On PC Users

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by HardOCP News, Jun 27, 2016.

  1. HardOCP News

    HardOCP News [H] News

    Messages:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1969
    While stories about being nagged to death to upgrade to Windows 10 are nothing new, this is the first time I've heard about anyone suing Microsoft over it....and winning.

    When outreach to Microsoft’s customer support didn’t fix the issue, Goldstein took the software giant to court, seeking compensation for lost wages and the cost of a new computer. She won. Last month, Microsoft dropped an appeal and Goldstein collected a $10,000 judgment from the company.
     
  2. natos

    natos Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    441
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    That's it....I'm suing them too.....they took my yob!!!!
     
  3. tesfaye

    tesfaye 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,419
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2003
    This is the first time I've heard of someone being forced to upgrade to Windows 10. I have machines that have prompted for months and never once has any of them upgraded on their own. I almost want to review the transcript of that court proceeding.
     
  4. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,894
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    Personally, I have no problem with Windows 10. In fact, I prefer it over Windows 7.

    However, if MS is really tricking people into upgrading without them knowing, then they need to be taken to the cleaners.

    From the article linked in the OP:
    "Paul Thurrott, another longtime Microsoft follower, criticized a recent pop-up asking users if they were ready to get Windows 10. In the prompt, the X in the upper-right corner — long known to Windows users as a way to exit a software program or abort a process — is interpreted by the update tool as an agreement to go ahead with Windows 10."

    And the source article that the quote was pulled from:
    Upgradegate: Microsoft's Upgrade Deceptions Are Undermining Windows 10 (Updated) - Thurrott.com
     
    F.E.A.R. and Madoc like this.
  5. cortexodus

    cortexodus [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,614
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Did you miss the whole "X to close the window means you agree to the upgrade" debacle? MS literally changed the normal behavior of a well-understood part of their OS to work like a "Don't not install this shit?" malware button.

    Relevant comic :-P
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
    Madoc, Revdarian and grtitan like this.
  6. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,382
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    PEOPLE: What's that Microsoft? There's a Windows update that'll remove Media Center, make finding updated drivers a bitch, and spy the shit out of me? No!
    Microsoft: But you want Windows 10, cause it has DX12 and the Windows Store. Hey, you should buy DX12 games off Windows Store. Did I mention Xbox will be integrated into Windows 10?
    PEOPLE: Fuck it, I'm trying Linux.

    PEOPLE: Damn Linux you're pretty great, except I can't play my games on you. What's up with that?

    MINT: Developers.
     
    dugn and grtitan like this.
  7. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

    Messages:
    16,827
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    It's hard to take something seriously when "gate" is appended to some scandal. Watergate wasn't some scandal involving water; it was the literal name of the goddamn hotel...
     
  8. Dead Parrot

    Dead Parrot 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,385
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    It would not be too much of a stretch to bring computer crimes charges against Microsoft for installing unwanted software on people's PCs via the Internet. I don't see much difference between tricking someone into installing spyware via a misleading dialog on a web page and installing Windows 10 via a misleading update dialog. Especially considering that in its default configuration, Windows 10 is considered by many to be spyware.
     
    Madoc and grtitan like this.
  9. This is what should have been happening over the Win10 update policies from the get go.

    And the reason Microsoft settled so quick was because the minute the general internet heard about it, it'd go class-action and Microsoft would have been bitch-smacked with VAST fines.
     
    Madoc and grtitan like this.
  10. GotNoRice

    GotNoRice [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,110
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2001
    lol the lady sued for $10k. No wonder Microsoft stopped fighting, their lawyers probably charge more than that per hour.
     
    dugn, Revdarian and DocSavage like this.
  11. PeaKr

    PeaKr Gawd

    Messages:
    700
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    It's sad M$ has to trick people into installing their new OS. I remember people waiting in line at midnight to buy 95. I wonder where it was they fucked up.
     
    Revdarian and grtitan like this.
  12. Bowman15

    Bowman15 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,216
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    The problem with your lol comment is now it sets a precedent if I'm not mistaken.
     
  13. GotNoRice

    GotNoRice [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,110
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2001
    I thought it was funny because I felt that she should have asked for more. I don't necessarily agree with her premise, but obviously the judge did.
     
  14. GotNoRice

    GotNoRice [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,110
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2001
    People also used to line up in front of book stores, does that mean no one reads anymore? Hint: people buy stuff on the internet.
     
    AaronGant likes this.
  15. Old Paul

    Old Paul [H]Lite

    Messages:
    64
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2015
    King MicroSxxt's latest ploy to spread GWX, showed up om my wife's PC within the last week or so!

    She uses IE-11 to access Ancestry.com, but the last time She tried to use IE-11, it came up with an offer to "Up-Grade to Windows 10", and refused to allow her any other options, other than the GWX!

    Fortunately, we also have FireFox browser, so she has switched over to the FireFox Browser and it works just as well!

    Another Strike Out by the Mighty King MicroSxxt!!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
    Madoc and grtitan like this.
  16. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,510
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Microsoft never learns :(
     
    Madoc and DPI like this.
  17. grtitan

    grtitan Telemetry is Spying on ME!

    Messages:
    1,266
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    And yet, the blind corporate fanatics will continue to make excuses for microcrap.
     
    Madoc likes this.
  18. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    44,157
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Here's an interesting article about the distribution and sales volumes of versions of Windows over the years:A Brief History of Windows Sales Figures, 1985-Present | TIME.com. I too lined up for a copy of Windows 95. According to this article, Windows 95 sold around 40 million copies in its first year. I believe that includes both upgrades and sales to OEMs. In its first year, Windows 10 will probably be deployed on around 400 million PCs.

    Here's the thing. As much as I agree the Windows 10 upgrade process needs to be easier to deal with, obvious ways to cancel and such, that 400 million number on PCs, if it ends up being true and the numbers so far indicate that it's well within reason, would be astounding. And obviously bad stuff like this is clearly bad, it's hard to imagine how many more copies of Windows 10 could have gotten out there in one year even if everything Windows 10 critics didn't like about it were remediated. Especially when one considers the sharp decline in new PC sales which had long been the way most people got new versions of Windows.

    Clearly there have been issues with how this upgrade process worked. But if the idea was to get a shit load of PCs out there running Windows 10 I don't see how Microsoft could have done much better in one year. I guess we'll see if down the line there's more litigation over this, I'm pretty sure there will be. But the Windows 10 numbers might be worth it to Microsoft.
     
  19. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

    Messages:
    18,601
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Oh they are learning... how much and what they can get away with.
     
    dugn and TheHobbyist like this.
  20. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,371
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2004
    I know a number of non-technical people who have accidently upgraded to Windows 10 due to the misleading nag boxes.
    When Microsoft turned on the upgrade messages for domain computers I had to scramble and add a policy to block the upgrade as many of our users sill run an old application that won't run under Windows 10.
    I'm sure at least a few of my users would have "accidently" upgraded.

    Clicking the "x" or choosing "Later" should NOT have ok'd the upgrade. At the very least there should have been another screen asking "Are you sure you want to upgrade to Windows 10?"
     
    Madoc likes this.
  21. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,371
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2004
    And I'm sure they counted my 3 home PC's as upgraded to Windows 10, even though they are still running Windows 7. In order to reserve the Windows 10 license, I cloned the OS drive and ran the Windows 10 Upgrade on the Cloned drive. Then I simply swapped the original Windows 7 drive back. If I ever decide I need to upgrade to Windows 10, after the Free July cutoff day, I already have a license for the systems ;)

    I did upgrade my tablet and my laptop, as Windows 10 seem to run a little better on the slower hardware.:nailbiting:
     
  22. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,315
    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Waiting on the class action lawsuit.
     
    DPI likes this.
  23. Spidey329

    Spidey329 [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,677
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Little known trick is to use small claims. In many jurisdictions large corporations are required to send a representative (not get someone locally) which is usually enough for them to offer a settlement depending the claim. Small Claims usually has certain rules which prevent them from going full lawyer (the usual tricks) on it, and you can usually get the court to grant a serve by certified mail.

    There's a guy who did a write up for Consumer Reports that has used the SC system to sue (and settle) vs T-Mo,Verizon, and a few others. All without ever actually going to court.


    One of my business partners laptops just upgraded by itself to Windows 10. I asked him why he selected the upgrade and he said he didn't, he just woke up to it. Wtf. Apparently the system has been dogbat slow since. Problem is, he's in the Middle East at the moment and can't do anything about it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  24. SpeedyVV

    SpeedyVV [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,192
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2007
    As much as I am not a fan of Americans litigating on everything, I love this particular outcome!
     
  25. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    44,157
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Microsoft has said that they are counting active copies of Windows 10 running. And their counts have aligned pretty well with Netmarket Share and GS Stat Counter. Over the weekend GS Stat Counter put Windows 10 at 23.97. That number always spikes for Windows 10 over the weekend given its limited enterprise deployment currently. But that's nearing on 25%. May's Netmarket Share was at 17.43%. That should near 20% for June. And Windows 10 is taking over Steam.

    Again, I'm not condoning everything that Microsoft is doing with the Windows 10 upgrade, I've said many times it should be easier to stop it and stop it permanently. And maybe it won't be worth it in the end to Microsoft but the Windows 10 install numbers, it's hard to imagine how they could've been better and reached this level without the aggressive upgrade. That doesn't make it right but nonetheless effective in getting the Windows 10 install base big quickly.
     
  26. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,518
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    And let's not forget that even before the tricks, the average person shouldn't have to deal with "now" or "later" as their only perceived options (if they didn't think the close the dialogue box instead). It's no better than a web pop-up ad at that point.
     
    Madoc and Jim Kim like this.
  27. signalpuke

    signalpuke n00b

    Messages:
    54
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    I mentioned this yesterday in the other Win10 thread. Screw M$, no one is amused by their shenanigans.
     
    grtitan likes this.
  28. pothb

    pothb [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,997
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Bad comparison imo. Different times, different among of computers, wouldn't be surprised if there were only like 50 million computers then, and a billion now.
     
  29. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

    Messages:
    10,955
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    The eventual class action against MS for Trojanware 10 is going to be EPIC. And we'll all have a front row seat.
     
  30. Brian_B

    Brian_B 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,501
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Got a $10,000 award. Probably paid lawyers $50,000 to get it.

    Getting headline news, teeing up a class action, and dragging MS through the mud: Totally worth it.
     
  31. MacLeod

    MacLeod [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,517
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Love this! Some of our Win7 computer "upgraded" to 10 and fucked up quite a few of the programs we use. I'm generally a fan and defender of Microsoft but this Win 10 harassment is ridiculous!
     
    Madoc likes this.
  32. xX326Xx

    xX326Xx Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    506
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Exactly! Regardless of their tactics, they are achieving their goal. Plus it's a free upgrade through the internet. LOL
     
  33. rezerekted

    rezerekted 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,043
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    No issues here because I installed GWX Control Panel, oh right, according to some self proclaimed "experts" around here I shouldn't monkey with my OS and run 3rd party "fixit" type software and should trust Microsoft. Dumbest advice ever.

    I said a long time ago Microsoft would get sued eventually over Win10 shenanigans. I'm surprised more haven't done so though.

    p.s. Why does heatless give such a shit about how many copies of Win10 Microsoft flogs?
     
  34. GotNoRice

    GotNoRice [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,110
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2001
    No one in that thread had an issue with you running 3rd party programs. The issue was you fucking up your OS, then turning around and blaming Microsoft for it. If you use 3rd party programs, you need to take responsibility when you break shit. Pretty sad to see you so butt-hurt over what is ultimately very straight-forward and common-sense advice.

    IMO it's not needed anyway. There has really only been one legitimate case where 10 would install without user interaction, and that is when they changed it from an optional update to a recommended update. Anyone who had the box checked that says "Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates", as well as having important updates set to install automatically, ended up having the Windows 10 update start automatically. Even in that case though, it's just one box in Windows Update settings that needed to be unchecked.
     
  35. Bowman15

    Bowman15 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,216
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    When I get bombarded with friends asking me how do I roll back to 7 as i didn't want to upgrade there must be an issue somewhere?
     
  36. koolaidkitten

    koolaidkitten Gawd

    Messages:
    633
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    I just moved over to mint over the weekend. I been dabbling with linux on and off for some years now and always came back because of games. Now that STEAM runs natively on linux I tried out their in home streaming business. Works perfectly. I can barely tell the difference. I'll probably stick around on linux for a while now.
     
  37. Semantics

    Semantics 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,765
    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Depends if it was settled im guessing it was flat out settled meaning no precedent.
     
  38. pothb

    pothb [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,997
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    From the sound of it, it was ruled, then microsoft wanted to appeal but then decided not to.

    EDIT: Nevermind, I think that was a different case.
     
  39. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

    Messages:
    10,955
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    "achieving their goal" but turning people off. I can throw dogshit in my neighbors pool and "achieve my goal" to do so, but it's not going to engender any good will.

    Temporary, hollow victory, because their future is turning black with every longtime user they piss off. Users and mindshare they'll never get back. Users that will avoid any of their other consumer products, and jump ship from Windows at the first opportunity.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  40. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,371
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2004
    I think that's what caught most of them. They didn't want the upgrade and picked "later" assuming it would come up and ask them again later, not automatically install later.