Microsoft Accused Of Releasing 'Worst Patch Yet' For Windows 10

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Oh crap, the gloves are off! The folks at ZDNet have taken issue with a Windows 10 update article written by InfoWorld and now the two are trading barbs back and forth. Grab some popcorn before you click the link. :D

In an all-too-typical pattern, InfoWorld accused Microsoft of releasing a horribly flawed, data-destroying security update for Windows 10, KB3124200. There's only one small problem: That update does no such thing. Is it too much to ask tech reporters to gather some facts before hurling accusations?
 

Bowman15

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Clicked on the link...Ed Bott...yeah he's unbiased. :rolleyes:

PS: And no I didn't read it. I don't read MS lackey articles.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

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Oh great, Ed Bott is again flipping out and rushing to Microsoft's defense. He's the same Ed Bott that was all like "*le sigh* Windows 8 is le so le lurvley of an operating system that it makes my sweat glands excrete rainbows!" back when the rest of the world was saying it was going to be a commercial failure which even Microsoft is admitting was a stupid idea.
 

Criticalhitkoala

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Oh great, Ed Bott is again flipping out and rushing to Microsoft's defense. He's the same Ed Bott that was all like "*le sigh* Windows 8 is le so le lurvley of an operating system that it makes my sweat glands excrete rainbows!" back when the rest of the world was saying it was going to be a commercial failure which even Microsoft is admitting was a stupid idea.

You know, I actually like Windows 8 and 8.1, it's on this computer now.
 

Elledan

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Sitting all smugly on the sidelines here, watching the spectacle from the Windows 7 benches.

It seems to me at this point that Microsoft has managed with Win10 what it failed to with Win8.x: splitting the Windows userbase into two camps, those doting on the newest Windows and those refusing to even get near it.

Flamewars courtesy of fanboys like in the referenced article aren't really helping matters here, either.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

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You know, I actually like Windows 8 and 8.1, it's on this computer now.

It's not really a bad OS actually. It's less keystroke and data loggy than Windows 10 which is probably a good thing and stuff like Classic Shell can adapt the UI to work in a more or less Windows 7 manner.

Mostly my gripe is with Ed Bott totally stumping for Microsoft and he should too since his income depends on the success of each successive product release as per his bio on ZD which states:

He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including Windows 7 Inside Out (2009) and Office 2013 Inside Out (2013).

He's also known to receive questionable gifts from Microsoft in the past (http://techrights.org/2008/11/09/ed-bott-laptop-bribe/). I'd trust pretty much any other journalist to give a less biased opinion than him...well, except for the militant Linux bloggers (and I like Linux lots, but some of them are kinda nutty).
 

Wierdo

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You know, I actually like Windows 8 and 8.1, it's on this computer now.

I could not stand Windows 8, but 8.1 is pretty fine, it's interesting how a few little tweaks can significantly add to convenience/efficiency and alter the user experience.
 

GotNoRice

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It seems to me at this point that Microsoft has managed with Win10 what it failed to with Win8.x: splitting the Windows userbase into two camps, those doting on the newest Windows and those refusing to even get near it.

Ever heard of Windows XP?
 

bbqrooster

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Oh wow, not one comment actually is on the said Windows 10 "buggy" update, or on the infoworld article. Instead it's all personal attach on Ed Bott.
 

nessus

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Interesting that the original article mentioning the issue being a Windows 10 update issue when it was actually an Office 2016 patch issue, and it affects any OS with Office 2016 with a particular update installed hasn't been updated at all.

The only place the "writer" acknowledges the mistake is in the comment section (and not even permanently promoted to the top of that section), where he verifies that its an Office 2016 update issue.

Ethical behavior knows no bounds. :eek:
 

ccman

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To me, this is all just par for the course. Emotions and rhetoric seem to run high on both (maybe all?) sides of the Windows 10 discussion. The media still words their articles to grab attention. Arguments spring up over the way messages are delivered and not the message itself.

Ed Bott seemed to take the most issue with the way the headline and subtitle was phrased. He also took issue with InfoWorld not testing "(a little over four hours)", which seems a bit long for firing up a VM and running updates. He rounded it out with taking issue that the other publications took InfoWorld's story and ran with stories without crediting the original or looking into it on their own. Then he ends saying he is only leaving the links "for those who want to witness the atrocities firsthand", not to provide reference to the stories. At the time of me posting this, he didn't leave the link to the ExtremeTech article.

I read the three places Bott points to as well as Bott's own writing. Bott didn't touch the point they were addressing in my view. He seems to be arguing over the window dressing, so to speak. Microsoft seems to be having a string of updates with problems. Updates with problems isn't new, but the frequency, speed, model ("Windows-as-a-Service"), and forced nature as of late is. I believe this a discussion worth having. Given his stance, it seems like a discussion on updates and Microsoft's new policies is a discussion he is wanting to avoid, which seems strange for someone who ostensibly gets paid for writing and shouldn't have direct skin in the game.

The articles he referred to had inaccuracies that required correction. Corrections have been made to two of them. There was a problem with an update did happen that did affect actual people. InfoWorld, SC Magazine UK, and ExtremeTech didn't fabricate the incidents. My reading of Botts article made it seem that was his implication.


ZDNet: Microsoft accused of releasing 'worst patch yet' for Windows 10 (spoiler: it's not true)
InfoWorld: A one-two punch: Windows 10 update KB 3124200 and Office update 6366
SC Magazine UK: Microsoft Word users fuming as abnormal update borks macros
ExtremeTech: Latest Microsoft updates erase Word customizations, can break Edge, Outlook, File Explorer
 

heatlesssun

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This was an update to Office 2016 which now has its own update system not tied to Windows Update.
 

ccman

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Interesting that the original article mentioning the issue being a Windows 10 update issue when it was actually an Office 2016 patch issue, and it affects any OS with Office 2016 with a particular update installed hasn't been updated at all.

The only place the "writer" acknowledges the mistake is in the comment section (and not even permanently promoted to the top of that section), where he verifies that its an Office 2016 update issue.

Ethical behavior knows no bounds. :eek:
Two of the articles mentioned the Office 2016 updates. The ExtremeTech article seemed more focused on how to fix the Office 2016 issue. The InfoWorld article said there were problems with the Windows update and the Office update. The InfoWorld article title is "Users who install Windows 10 version 1511 build 10586.36/Cumulative Update 6 and Office patch 6366 may be in for a double whammy" (may have changed) and the article specifies problems with the Windows update unrelated to Office.

So taken at face value, Microsoft had problems with an Office 2016 update and a Windows 10 update (two problems, not a lack of a Windows 10 update problem)
 

ccman

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This was an update to Office 2016 which now has its own update system not tied to Windows Update.
Incorrect.

"Radu Tyrsina at Windowsreport has amassed a list of more than a dozen problems with KB 3124200, including the following:

Install failures, which have become very common with cumulative updates. Usually, but not always, frozen installations can be fixed by installing the patch manually.
File Explorer, Calculator, Store, Calendar, and/or Maps won’t work.
Outlook won’t open.
Errors 0x80242fff, 0x8007000d."

From http://www.infoworld.com/article/30...-kb-3124200-clobbers-word-customizations.html
 

ccman

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Incorrect.
By incorrect, I mean there was a problem with the referenced Windows Update. It just didn't have to do with the Normal template issue. Also, at the very least Office 2013 updates are still delivered through Windows Server Update Services for some editions of Office 2013. There is a checkbox in WSUS for Office 2013 and Office 2016 (as well as past versions), so presumably WSUS still delivers Office 2016 updates as well for some editions.
 

heatlesssun

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Microsoft seems to be having a string of updates with problems.

Updating non-trivial software isn't trivial. Obviously Microsoft pushes bad updates. They always have. But how many people are effected by them versus how many people get problems fixed and the severity of those problems versus the problems caused? We normally don't hear about problems resolved and we'll never heard about problems one never saw that were fixed.

This is one reason why I don't have a problem overall with Microsoft's telemetry system. How can one expect problems to be fixed if each and every problem requires human intervention? Some of this HAS to automated. No one person is ever going to see every problem and fix with things as complex as Windows and Office. We use automation to deal with problems beyond human capacity all of the time, software is no different.

Of course Microsoft needs to make this better. If I could install Linux or whatever on all of my PCs and everything be better and everything work without any issue I'd do it right now along with everyone else. Don't upgrade, don't install updates, don't do anything and just keep doing the same thing forever is certainly something that can work for a lot of people. But it's hardly an answer for the need to address constant change.
 

ManofGod

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It wouldn't be Christmas and New Years without a Windows 10 and Microsoft hate thread, now would it? :D
 

DeathFromBelow

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Oh wow, not one comment actually is on the said Windows 10 "buggy" update, or on the infoworld article. Instead it's all personal attach on Ed Bott.

It comes up because he makes a living writing books about Microsoft products and has a history of writing in defense of failing Microsoft products.

It looks even worse now that there seem to be problems with multiple updates. Makes it look like Ed/Microsoft took advantage of the earlier confusion about which KB was responsible to try and smooth things over.
 

DKS

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Tech media fighting over a patch... people read this shit?
Exactly. One patch busted my Outlook installation. It took 5 minutes of Googlefu to find the fix and 30 seconds to do it. Welcome to the world of Chicken Little.
 

pxc

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(Correction: As noted Microsoft Press author Ed Bott has observed, Windows 10 patch KB 3124200 does not in fact destroy Word customizations as originally reported. That damage was actually done by the Office 6366 patch -- specifically, an update to Word 2010, 2013 and 2016 -- that many people installed simultaneously with KB 3124200. You can find manual repair steps for the Office 6366 patch here. InfoWorld regrets the error. This post and its title have been edited to reflect the correction.)
InfoWorld already acknowledged the error. The loss of customizations was actually caused by an Office patch instead of a Windows patch. Good thing there was no problem!
 

mi7chy

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People tend to be lazy about adopting change so they'll throw every excuse to inflict negative peer pressure so they don't feel left behind. If you're not lazy 10 > 8.x > 7 > Vista...
 

nutzo

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People tend to be lazy about adopting change so they'll throw every excuse to inflict negative peer pressure so they don't feel left behind. If you're not lazy 10 > 8.x > 7 > Vista...

Disagree.

On the desktop/laptop Windows 7 >10>8.1>8.0>Vista

On a tablet, Windows 10>8.x>7
 

ccman

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Disagree.

On the desktop/laptop Windows 7 >10>8.1>8.0>Vista

On a tablet, Windows 10>8.x>7
Experiences vary ("your mileage may vary")

If a person doesn't run into any of these problems, it may be hard to see what all the fuss is about. ("I've upgraded x computers to Windows 10 build y, Cumulative Update z, and they all worked perfectly")

I've seen desktop users post that Windows 10 is the best Windows yet. I've seen tablet users post that Windows 8.1 was better for them.

In my view, the problem was Microsoft was looking for or needing Windows 10 to be more definitive than this. Microsoft needed Windows 10 to be more like Windows 7 in experience and perception. Then again, it sounds like Microsoft is trying to make Windows 10 a "continually improving" product, so the comparison to Windows 7 is fundamentally flawed. Windows 10 seems to brush the edge of Release Candidate quality too much. Gaming seems to get away with worse though.

The quoted statement reminds me too much of the "every other Windows sucks" statements, which were flawed at best.
 

ccman

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7 is an ugly juvenile looking bloaty dog that's almost as bad as Vista. It doesn't go anywhere near my workstations and laptops.
So you skipped Vista and 7? Went from Windows XP to 8.x to 10? Interesting.
 

-PK-

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7 is an ugly juvenile looking bloaty dog that's almost as bad as Vista. It doesn't go anywhere near my workstations and laptops.

How is windows 7 bloaty exactly? Windows 8 and 10 have two of every preinstalled program, an app version and the normal windows program. Windows won't let you uninstall all of the Microsoft apps, even if you use it in a desktop environment. They have apps to open folder locations, settings, and the control panel. The problem with this is that you end up with zero day exploits all over the place. And if you press windows key and type in calc, how is it convenient at all to have two versions of calc pop up?

There are some improvements with the latest windows, but it is in no way less bloaty or more secure.
 

mi7chy

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And if you press windows key and type in calc, how is it convenient at all to have two versions of calc pop up?

Seems like you don't use Windows that much. Everyone I know does windows+r then put in 'calc'. If they run it often enough they make a shortcut. Even the other way it shows the desktop version on top. On 10, only one calc shows up on search and it runs in desktop but probably because I unpinned all the metro apps from start menu. So, it goes back to why the lazy stick with 7.
 

rezerekted

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With all these articles being posted about Win10 it made me go through gpedit in Win8.1Pro and lock my OS down even further, I also installed GWX control panel and Spybot anti-becon, I am now sending less data back to Microsoft pre-Win10 release. Thanks Microsoft! :)
 

nilepez

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Clicked on the link...Ed Bott...yeah he's unbiased. :rolleyes:

PS: And no I didn't read it. I don't read MS lackey articles.

Summary: Infoworld published a story that is demonstrably false and MS bashers copied thier article (generally without credit) to support their bashing ways.

The bug was real. It wasn't caused by an update to windows. It was an Office update (which kinda makes sense).
I now return you to the MS bashing channel.
 

nilepez

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Sitting all smugly on the sidelines here, watching the spectacle from the Windows 7 benches.

It seems to me at this point that Microsoft has managed with Win10 what it failed to with Win8.x: splitting the Windows userbase into two camps, those doting on the newest Windows and those refusing to even get near it.

Don't kid yourself, there was a lot of 7 bashing on here in 2009/2010. This will last longer, because 7 will overlap 10 longer than XP overlapped 7, but it's the same ole same ole.

I have no problem with 10, but I also liked 7. Hell, I didn't really have a problem with 8, though I thought the start screen was less efficient if you had to use a mouse to open a program (as opposed to typing the name). For me, that was mostly when I wanted to use the Calculator
 

ClariorHincHonos

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So these articles aside, MS has done an absolute shit job of QA on patches lately. Our organization has had to scramble to pull 2-3 bad patches in the last couple of months. Gettin' tired of your bullshit MS.
 

ccman

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So these articles aside, MS has done an absolute shit job of QA on patches lately. Our organization has had to scramble to pull 2-3 bad patches in the last couple of months. Gettin' tired of your bullshit MS.
This reflects my feelings.

The fact that some online news outlets mistook a problem with an Office 2016 update for a problem with a Windows 10 update does not detract from the fact that there was a problem with an Office 2016 update and other problems reported by people with the Windows 10 update in question. And yes, it was silly to think an update to Windows 10 would bork Office 2016, but correlation has historically been mistaken for causation.

Just because there have always been problems with updates from time to time doesn't detract from that it seems problems with updates from Microsoft of late have seem to come more frequently of late and cause some pretty notable issues to those affected (some aren't and don't see a problem). Microsoft is trying to move to a more agile, frequent, and substantial updating model, and these issues do not bode well for generating faith and trust in this new One Microsoft Way, especially when they're moving to take away control and choice from the end user.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

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The thing is that Ed Bott found a mistake in which patch broke something as his chance to discredit anyone with an opinion that doesn't align with his Microsoft-funded one. He not only lashed out at InfoWorld and a previous friend (who, totally didn't get as immature as him when he corrected the error in his article -- a sign of the difference in quality of journalism between Ed Bott and InfoWorld's writer), but dragged in any other random tech news outlet he could find in order to trash talk them as well while downplaying the significance of the bad patch so something "minor that needs 10 seconds to fix" (neglecting troubleshooting).

Basically Ed Bott is trying to take any advantage he can to build his own credibility at the expense of others by attempting to scream more loudly and aggressively than anyone else. If that's not bias, ignorant journalism, I dunno what is and I'm genuinely surprised anyone takes his stuff seriously anymore. What a derp-face.
 

zaniix

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The biggest issue with Win10 is that it forces updates unless you run Pro version and use a group policy to stop them. Not all updates are bad, but some have caused serious issue and I rather not be the first to get them.
 

Pieter3dnow

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Simple solution to the Ed Bott and Windows 10 problems :) it is so simple:
Install Linux

Never ever have to bother reading anything by Ed again :)
 
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