Michael's Computers

mobiux

2[H]4U
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Jul 24, 2000
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2,626
Originally posted by Black Morty Rackham
To be honest, I think that if you can fool people, get away with it, and not break any laws, go for it. :p People are idiots. Might as well take advantage of it.

See, i think that's where the problem with this is.
It's fraud, which is obviously against the law.

He's claiming to sell something that's fake.

Now if he was selling a 486 computer, claimed it was a 486 computer, didn't make any bogus claims, and someone still paid $2000 then yeah, I see nothing wrong with it.

A fool and his money as they say.
 

Met-AL

Supreme [H]ardness
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Apr 9, 2002
Messages
7,889
Originally posted by Phoenix86
Not to mention the shady things they have done in the past. Reward good companies like djnes just mentioned with your cash, why give people a second chance when there are much better choices already available?
Amen to that.
 

Sean

[H] for Life
Joined
Nov 16, 2000
Messages
5,283
Originally posted by mobiux
See, i think that's where the problem with this is.
It's fraud, which is obviously against the law.

He's claiming to sell something that's fake.

Now if he was selling a 486 computer, claimed it was a 486 computer, didn't make any bogus claims, and someone still paid $2000 then yeah, I see nothing wrong with it.

A fool and his money as they say.

I would have to agree with Mobiux on this one. Idiots making fools of themselves is quite fine. Being made a fool by someone else isn't.

You better get what you ordered, or its false advertising.

Cheers,
 

SarverSystems

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
7,408
We should all put $1.00 into a fund, buy a system from him. Then we'll see what happens from there.
 

Sean

[H] for Life
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Nov 16, 2000
Messages
5,283
I can just guess, but I am sure there is NO samples avaliable. Tom couldn't get one, so I don't think its in the intrest that kyle waste the energy typing a request to him.

Crap, this reply was useless. But I am not going to delete it because that would be counter productive.

Cheers,
 

nomar

[H]ard|Gawd
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Yeah I really doubt anyone would get one. I tried a few weeks ago to no avail. I even tried sucking up to him. An interesting tidbit.. I sent it to "Michael@michaelscomputers.com" and his return address was "mike35@michaelscomputers.com". Check out his sig too :)

Hello Jeff,

Thank you for contacting the only instant computers in the world.

As we do very well with our sales worldwide, we see no need to further exposure currently.

Thank you again Jeff and be sure to stop by when your ready to get up to speed.

If it doesn’t have the EAGLE, your computers speed does not FLY.

Michael J Gonzales / Owner Michael's Computers
Michael's MX8 2004 - World's Only 64-BIT INSTANT Computer with new AMD FX-51 3400+ Processor
877-739-0205 - Worldwide / International
“We have computers from every company & your MX Systems are by far the fastest. Our technicians
have seen literally hundreds of cutting-edge computers from every manufacturer and they practically
drooled over your MX" - United States Navy California/Sidewinder Missile Development Team

Tell your friends or colleagues about Michael's Computers. Click to Recommend-It and walk away with $10000


From: "Jeff Fila"
To: michael@michaelscomputers.com
Subject: Contact From Michael's Computers
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:59:48 -0500

Hi Michael,

I've known about your site and your computers for a while and think you do some pretty cool stuff. I am the managing editor for Designtechnica, one of the most popular computer and consumer electronics review Websites on the net. We specialize in finding products with what we call the "cool factor" and I think our readers would be very interested in your products.

If you'd like to have any products reviewed for the Designtechnica readers, let me know. We'd love to get our hands on some of your designs.

Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff Fila
Managing Editor
Designtechnica Corporation
www.designtechnica.com
 

kronchev

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 23, 2001
Messages
12,051
HMMMM very nice

"United States Navy California/Sidewinder Missile Development Team "

I think I have some navy research contacts who would be very interested in this claim of drooling...
 

kronchev

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 23, 2001
Messages
12,051
Originally posted by defcom_1
Maybe [H] could try to get a review sample?

youd think that if he was legit hed be sending review samples to major venues. You can NEVER have "too much" business.

/edit: im watching the video interview...what a bullshitter. yeh, they cant send a unit because theyre making something "better" :rolleyes:
 

Chris_Morley

Former [H] Consumer Managing Ed.
Joined
Jul 5, 2000
Messages
3,609
I emailed him back in December. This is what I wrote:

I have a few questions about your MX51.

1) The graphic you have on your page is the 3200+. Is this the
processor used, or is it the FX-51? They are not the same and you seem to switch from one to the other in your specs.

2) The ATI M10P is a Radeon 9600 Pro. It has half the rendering
pipelines and half the bandwidth available, yet you say it's the fastest video card available, with 3DMark2003 scores of over 15,000.

3) 15,000 in 3DMark03 is very impressive. Companies using the 9800XT 256MB card in their destops are having a hard time pushing 7,000. I'd like to know what special tricks you're using to get that score with an inferior graphics card.

4) That laptop is from an ODM in Taiwan, yet you say you're a
manufacturer and not an integrator. That's a white book laptop available to anyone.

5) You have quotes from CGW on your website. I have all the issues from the past several months and I can't seem to find it anywhere. I know Wil at CGW personally, maybe I could ask him?

6) I won't even go into some of the other claims you have on your website, but from what I've read, either you have NO idea what you're doing or you're trying to ride a wave of traffic to your website using deceptive practices.

Either way you're a liar or a fool.

Chris

And this is what I got back:

Thank you for contacting us Chris,

We are utilizing the FX-51 processor which we have been doing so for the last 5 weeks now since we are a manufacturing company.

We are also using the latest video chipsets which are 3 times as fast as the 9800 Pro and

at many times 5 times as fast. Our average scores have surpassed 15,000 within 3DMArk2003.

We are the only instant computer systems. Perhaps that’s why we sell to smart clients every week.

We will be posting our latest pictures of our MX51’s within a day. We manufacture our systems here in Southern California.

Are you ready for instant performance? Thank you again for your inquiries Chris!


Showed it to our field sales engineer from AMD, Travis Justillian, and he just about died laughing.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
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May 18, 1997
Messages
54,080
We looked into these guys last year and decided that giving them ANY press was the wrong thing to do. They are full of shit and I seriously doubt that anyone that even knows what the Internet is would buy a product from them...
 

CaNaDian PyRo

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 22, 2002
Messages
217
Originally posted by FrgMstr
We looked into these guys last year and decided that giving them ANY press was the wrong thing to do.
But the resulting drama that ensues guarantees hilarity.
 

skinlab

Gawd
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Messages
965
Originally posted by kronchev
HMMMM very nice

"United States Navy California/Sidewinder Missile Development Team "

I think I have some navy research contacts who would be very interested in this claim of drooling...

rofl
maybe theyll be knocking on his door soon. id like to see that on film....
 

CaNaDian PyRo

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 22, 2002
Messages
217
Originally posted by eyedol
For any of you that are curious about the site and didn't get to see it.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.michaelscomputers.com/

:D
LoL.

Processors alone, don't make a computer fast....

It's The Hard Drive System – More than 4 X faster than any other system and exclusive to Michael’s Computers, the TXK Hyper drives allow Michael’s MX7’s to load rapidly and with No to Little waiting time. Business programs are clicked and ready to go and game levels load immediately. Michael’s Exclusive TXK drive systems are available from 240GB to an overly impressive 500GB (that’s over 500,000 MB)

Michael's TXK breaks the video/sound barrier with RAID 0 striping data speeds that easily exceed that of a single Ultra ATA/133 drive and burst loading speeds to up to 266MB per second!

New performance twists are embedded that leave other systems far behind and in the dust.

We took a modern game (in this case, Will Rock) and ran it side by side a competitor. We won't mention their name, but their company name sounds like they should be running a Taco stand (i.e. Del Taco).

With "their" RAID setup and running Will Rock, all graphics were smooth (well of course, they use the same graphic cards as we do), but the transition effects, where the power of RAID truly demonstrates, loading time was about 10-12 seconds per level. That was SLOW and UNACCEPTABLE by our standards.

I can only say that because of comparison standards. With our TXK RAID setup, graphics were smooth as can be and transitions were 0-1 seconds in loading time!

Think a system you know of is faster? Tell us. We prove daily that no other systems run faster than a Michael's MX7.
I Googled 'TXK Hyper drive' with no results.
 

CrimandEvil

Dick with a heart of gold
Joined
Oct 22, 2003
Messages
19,670
Originally posted by skinlab
rofl
maybe theyll be knocking on his door soon. id like to see that on film....
LOL! I'd hate to have a pissed Marine on my tail! :(
 

Logiks

Weaksauce
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
114
Michael’s Exclusive TXK drive systems are available from 240GB to an overly impressive 500GB (that’s over 500,000 MB)

Wtf... how is that over 500 GB's? 500GB=500,000MBs.

Weak sauce...

-Logiks
 

Logiks

Weaksauce
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
114
HOLY SHIT! I Just got done reading some of the customer reviews on michael's computers that Eyedol posted. Here's the link to the customer's reviews

http://web.archive.org/web/20030401110338/michaelscomputers.com/Michaels_Customer_Comments.htm

from his latest page. Here's what I found:

"I could not be more pleased with my new PC from Michael's Computers. As I write this I am playing a live concert recording, decoding another audio file to .WAV format, burning a CD, downloading multiple files, working on high resolution photos in Paint Shop Pro, and just for fun I launched Norton's virus scanner, all at the same time. Digital photo editing, audio encoding, jaw-dropping gaming, no matter what I throw at this thing is doesn't slow down, crash, or warn me about resources. With this pristine build, industry leading components, a great price and an unbeatable warranty, I couldn't possibly be happier. Not only that but my every question and concern has been addressed almost immediately. As an IT professional I'm glad to finally be able to recommend a PC vendor to my peers and associates with confidence. Michael's is it.
--Shawn Rodgers, IT Manager, Pa (01/05/2003)"

Holy crap does that sound way to perfect, and that guy was doing all those things at once? Bullshit. Jesus christ, who would want to do all that at once anyway?

But CHECK THIS OUT...

"Michael has created a masterpiece MX7....I now have a computer that entertains, instructs, processes and creates magic at my fingertips all at the speed of light....it is in the class of a Rolls Royce and has the speed of a Porche
--Briana Silva - Logistics Manager, Union City, Ca (01/02/2003"

Union City is where I went to High School, and currently where I live very close to. I wonder if I could look this "Briana Silva" and find her somehow... hmmm... I'm literally 2 minutes from Union City. I'm now very very curious.

I just did a white page search for Briana Silva, and found nothing. Did a Google search... nothing. Did a Yahoo People's search and found 2 people:

2 Briana Silvas However, they're not located in Union City.

One of my friends I played sports with in High School was named Matt Silva. I wonder if Briana is his mother or relative of some sort. He lived in Union City... damn I wish I had his phone # still.

I'll keep you guys posted if I find out any more info on this "Briana".

-Logiks
 

Mojo

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 28, 2003
Messages
1,569
I read the article, and watched the interview. I thought it was unneeded. Tom's shouldn't have done that. Waste of time, and effort. I see where they're coming from to watch out for frauds on the internet, but I feel it was unecessary for them to go out and actually cross examine someone like that. If they want to fraud, go ahead. If the customer is too stupid to even think about what stores are good and do some research for like 5 minutes, then in my opinion, they deserve to be ripped the hell off.
 

Met-AL

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
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Messages
7,889
Originally posted by Mojo
I read the article, and watched the interview. I thought it was unneeded. Tom's shouldn't have done that. Waste of time, and effort. I see where they're coming from to watch out for frauds on the internet, but I feel it was unecessary for them to go out and actually cross examine someone like that. If they want to fraud, go ahead. If the customer is too stupid to even think about what stores are good and do some research for like 5 minutes, then in my opinion, they deserve to be ripped the hell off.
I have to agree with you. They should have waited until Michael's gave them a PC to review, or they should have just gone out and bought one. Maybe doing some real investigative work and finding some previous customers would have been a good idea. Making all this fuss without hard evidence is not fair. Sure there is a 98% chance that Michael's claims are full of BS, but you can't run someone into the ground like that.

One question I have about the interview is did Michael know it was being taped? If not and it was a concealed camera, recording the audio part of it is a violation of federal law. A person can secretly shoot all the video and photo's they want, but recording audio is a whole different ball game.

And to Logiks, posting peoples personal info on the boards, especially when they are "innocent bystanders", just isn't a nice courteous thing to do.
 

not5150

n00b
Joined
Mar 19, 2004
Messages
15
Originally posted by Met-AL
I have to agree with you. They should have waited until Michael's gave them a PC to review, or they should have just gone out and bought one. Maybe doing some real investigative work and finding some previous customers would have been a good idea. Making all this fuss without hard evidence is not fair. Sure there is a 98% chance that Michael's claims are full of BS, but you can't run someone into the ground like that.

One question I have about the interview is did Michael know it was being taped? If not and it was a concealed camera, recording the audio part of it is a violation of federal law. A person can secretly shoot all the video and photo's they want, but recording audio is a whole different ball game.

And to Logiks, posting peoples personal info on the boards, especially when they are "innocent bystanders", just isn't a nice courteous thing to do.

I am the reporter who did the article... I will address your incorrect points

1. There are no pcs. We tried to get a review unit, other review sites have tried to get a review unit. No one here wanted to risk $2000 on trying to buy a unit.

How do you review a non-existent computer? Would you order a non-existent computer?

2. We did contact previous customers. Rather they contacted us, didn't you read the article?

3. Regarding the videotaping, please go to the Sharky Forums... you will see the answer there.

4. Regarding the legality of audio taping. You are ABSOLUTELY WRONG on that. In the public (outside of a house/building/etc) there is no expectation of privacy. You can secretely audio/video tape anyone.

You are confusing private situations and public situations. In a private closed door meeting, secret audio taping would be illegal, unless you are the owner of the building/business.

Humphrey Cheung
Editor - www.tomshardware.com
 

SarverSystems

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
7,408
Hey not5150, I'm curious how you conecealed the camera and what kind camera it was. Not that I plan to do any of that sneaky stuff myself, I'm just curious.

It looks to me like it was concealed in a notepad or briefcase, being that most of the video is at an angle. I imagine you holding soemthing like a briefcase trying to look inconspicuous.
 

Mo_BurLy

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
202
"No one here wanted to risk $2000 on trying to buy a unit."

Why not? I think you guys should have tried to buy one of these POSs under a pseudo name and then sue the shit out of him for false advertising. You could easily get the rest of the companies whose logos he is using to sign on with their support. That way THG would get its money back and Michael would go byebye. Great fun.
 

Phoenix86

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 28, 2002
Messages
6,653
Well, cough of some cash and let us know how it goes. I mean your telling someone else how to spend their money. :rolleyes:

They didn't want to risk it, if you do go ahead.
 

CrimandEvil

Dick with a heart of gold
Joined
Oct 22, 2003
Messages
19,670
Originally posted by Mo_BurLy
"No one here wanted to risk $2000 on trying to buy a unit."

Why not? I think you guys should have tried to buy one of these POSs under a pseudo name and then sue the shit out of him for false advertising....

Thats called "Entrapment", "fraud", and "Indentity thief" and with a few other felonies tacked on you will easily spent just as much time behind bars as he would, then again the case agianst him could just as easily be thrown out because of the fraudulant ways that the evidence was obtained. Does that sound fun? Well maybe if you call bunking with some guy named "bubba" fun?
 

Met-AL

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
7,889
Originally posted by not5150
I am the reporter who did the article... I will address your incorrect points

1. There are no pcs. We tried to get a review unit, other review sites have tried to get a review unit. No one here wanted to risk $2000 on trying to buy a unit.

How do you review a non-existent computer? Would you order a non-existent computer?

2. We did contact previous customers. Rather they contacted us, didn't you read the article?

3. Regarding the videotaping, please go to the Sharky Forums... you will see the answer there.

4. Regarding the legality of audio taping. You are ABSOLUTELY WRONG on that. In the public (outside of a house/building/etc) there is no expectation of privacy. You can secretely audio/video tape anyone.

You are confusing private situations and public situations. In a private closed door meeting, secret audio taping would be illegal, unless you are the owner of the building/business.

Humphrey Cheung
Editor - www.tomshardware.com
Yes I read your article.
1. If you didn't want to risk $2000 on a unit, then why do the story. The whole issue with this guy is his outlandish claims about his PC's. Would I buy a PC to back my story. Hell yes. That's the whole point.

2. You did not interview any customers. You showed a couple of e-mails, but no interviews. Big deal. I didn't say get emails, I said interviews.

3. I am not going to Sharky Forums to look around for some huge 10 page thread. If you want people to go check, please post a link or quote.

4. You say I'm wrong. I may be wrong. Your are the professional journalist so I am taking you for your word. Besides, it's a not really a legal matter now, since you didn't conseal the camera (based on not5150's reply). But if you weren't consealing the camera, then why didn't you hold it up at eye level like a pro would do? Still shady.

Basicaly, my point is: Tom's Hardware is not some noob website. It plays a large role in the hardware community, wether everyone likes that fact or not, it does. Running some tabloid like story on that website is out of place. JMIO.
 

Chris_Morley

Former [H] Consumer Managing Ed.
Joined
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Messages
3,609
Originally posted by CrimandEvil
Thats called "Entrapment", "fraud", and "Indentity thief" and with a few other felonies tacked on you will easily spent just as much time behind bars as he would, then again the case agianst him could just as easily be thrown out because of the fraudulant ways that the evidence was obtained. Does that sound fun? Well maybe if you call bunking with some guy named "bubba" fun?

What law school did you go to?

Entrapment - entrapment is where a police officer or other law enforcement officer induces a person to commit a crime that the person wouldn’t have committed otherwise for the purpose of bringing a criminal prosecution against that person.

Fraud is defined as a deception deliberately practiced
to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

By definition, identity theft occurs when someone appropriates your personal information without your knowledge in order to commit fraud or theft.

My god, investigatory reporters do that ALL THE TIME.
 

Chris_Morley

Former [H] Consumer Managing Ed.
Joined
Jul 5, 2000
Messages
3,609
Originally posted by Met-AL
Yes I read your article.
1. If you didn't want to risk $2000 on a unit, then why do the story. The whole issue with this guy is his outlandish claims about his PC's. Would I buy a PC to back my story. Hell yes. That's the whole point.

2. You did not interview any customers. You showed a couple of e-mails, but no interviews. Big deal. I didn't say get emails, I said interviews.

3. I am not going to Sharky Forums to look around for some huge 10 page thread. If you want people to go check, please post a link or quote.

4. You say I'm wrong. I may be wrong. Your are the professional journalist so I am taking you for your word. Besides, it's a not really a legal matter now, since you didn't conseal the camera (based on not5150's reply). But if you weren't consealing the camera, then why didn't you hold it up at eye level like a pro would do? Still shady.

Basicaly, my point is: Tom's Hardware is not some noob website. It plays a large role in the hardware community, wether everyone likes that fact or not, it does. Running some tabloid like story on that website is out of place. JMIO.

1) There was no need to purchase a PC. He wasn't disputing the performance so much as the performance claims, and he was asking for the methods behind it.

2) Why does he need an interview with 'customers'? Those 'customers' never dealt with him, so why do you need them to say 'I didn't deal with him' in any other way than through an email?

3) Sounds like a personal problem.

4) He stated he couldn't hold it up and write at the same time. What's shady about that? News reporters REGULARLY used concealed cameras ALL THE TIME for investigatory work. Their fully hidden and out of view.
 

not5150

n00b
Joined
Mar 19, 2004
Messages
15
Ok... seeing that you didn't want to click on the link to the Sharky thread... I've copied and pasted how I held the camera.

"Camera was under my left arm... wasn't hidden.

It was the only way I could hold my notepad with my left hand and write with my right hand.

The bad angle is because I'm 5'5" and he is a giant 6'4" at least."

I didn't have a tripod, so maybe you can explain how I can write on a notepad and hold up a camera (at eye level) at the same time?

Also in response to your point 1.

Don't you get it?? The fact that we wouldn't risk $2000 is EXACTLY the reason we did the story. Think about it.
 

Mo_BurLy

Limp Gawd
Joined
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Messages
202
Originally posted by CrimandEvil
Thats called "Entrapment", "fraud", and "Indentity thief" and with a few other felonies tacked on you will easily spent just as much time behind bars as he would, then again the case agianst him could just as easily be thrown out because of the fraudulant ways that the evidence was obtained. Does that sound fun? Well maybe if you call bunking with some guy named "bubba" fun?

I wont deal with what you think those terms mean, but maybe next time you should quote EVERYTHING in a post relevent to a topic that you want to dispute. I placed Great fun at the end of my post to indicate that I was being sarcastic.

And if someone bought a computer from this idiot and then realized it was wholly not what he claimed it to be then they can very well sue him for false advertising. :rolleyes:
 

SarverSystems

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
7,408
Who's to stop him from rernaming the parts?

Windows 2004 could really be Windows XP w/SP1. An AMD FX51 could be a regular Athlon OCed by 1MHz.

I'm not sticking up for him, but that's the only logical explaination I can think of.
 

Phoenix86

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
6,653
Oh I don't know what about copyrights? Lindows had trouble in court, imagine if "michael's computers" produced windows 2k4, definate violation. Same with FX-xx AMD should have rights to the FX name, any judge would see that as a violation. It's not like he rebranded it MX and Frames, he used FX and Windows.

Either way, it's fraud. If he was just selling slow PCs to dumb consumers thats one thing. But outright lying to make profit wouldn't go far in court.
 

Mojo

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,569
Originally posted by not5150
"Camera was under my left arm... wasn't hidden.

It was the only way I could hold my notepad with my left hand and write with my right hand.

The bad angle is because I'm 5'5" and he is a giant 6'4" at least."
A bit off topic, but why didn't you just concentrate on taking the video properly, then after that take it home and watch it, then copy your notes as you watch it? Would've worked better... :)
 

not5150

n00b
Joined
Mar 19, 2004
Messages
15
Could have done that... but I had my questions on the notepad. I needed to have the notepad out for that reason.
 

Phoenix86

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
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Besides he rambeled for 9 minutes before he realized it was being taped. I think I like it as is. Good work. Oh, yeah, a totally hidden camera would have been kosher too, many journalist do it. But what you got was plenty good for what you needed, bad angles and all. :cool:
 

SarverSystems

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
7,408
I think they need to send a 2nd person out, ask the same questions in a different order, and see if his answers match up.
 
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