Metro Exodus: GeForce RTX Real-Time Ray Traced Global Illumination Demo

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by cageymaru, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. arnemetis

    arnemetis 2[H]4U

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    Too much of a performance hit for an immature tech. They should have held back a generation or two and kept working that R&D a few more years. I'll take a GTX 2080 Ti, without the RTX components, for far less than $999 please.
     
  2. theBrownLlama

    theBrownLlama Gawd

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    that's looks like batman:arkham knight.
     
  3. workshop35

    workshop35 Gawd

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    I can appreciate the new tech but it reminds me of having gamma too high. Once they get it refined and hardware can run it I'm sure it will be awesome.
     
  4. haste.

    haste. [H]ard|Gawd

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    Honestly I'm not claiming anything. I dont think they are going to perform nearly as bad as the AMD crowd seems to factually claim or be a groundbreaking new card. But tomorrow we should at least have an idea and not just emotionally charged speculation. I'm also in the party that doesn't believe that at the current pricing model there will be much value, but if you are a bleeding edge enthusiast with expandendable funds... well just have to see!
     
  5. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

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    To me that teels me that you brain is "programmed" for rasterization rendering.
    Too me RTX off looks terribad vs RTX on....I mean the fake ligthing is mind boggling...*yikes*
     
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  6. Inu

    Inu [H]ard|Gawd

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    The lighting looks much more accurate and realistic with the lighting on.

    That's what you're seeing. The light sources are dramatically different with RTX on. You're seeing realism.

    Now would it work if they decided to do that in this game? I dunno. I don't know this game.

    To me, the ones with the RTX off, you're seeing what you're used to seeing in all video games. Very bland blanketed and artificially impossibly uniform lighting.

    That being said. The light sources could've been much better placed with RTX on.
     
  7. Brent_Justice

    Brent_Justice Moderator

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    That's also another good point, we've been "trained" to accept fake lighting models in games (which are often exaggerated), to the point that real lighting will seem alien at first, and even unwelcomed, cause we as humans don't like change.
     
  8. Icon_Charlie

    Icon_Charlie [H]Lite

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    Yea I more or less agree with you on your comment... In the Crack Head 80's the "Business Drink of Choice was Crank and Champagne as per reference to you comment about snorting money with glee..

    And yes I have met a few of the super rich and I can not stand them all. They sold their souls for the all mighty dollar. They do not even think the same as us and a majority of them follow in these 3 main mental disorders. The heaviest form of Narcissism. Sociopaths. Psychopaths. They can not relate to social norms and so they create their own "hidden" kingdoms in clear sight.

    People think Silicon Valley is a great place to be in but in reality it is like the weather of Fall. The sun may shown brightly in in the sky and you may even get some warmth from it But once you go into a shady area you will feel the coldness that is to the bone. You can see who are the haves and who are the have nots.... if you pay attention that is. The only safeguard from this type of bone chilling coldness is to be financially free from your environment. In that case I am. I am shielded from that type of cold with an umbrella of money as I can live comfortably in one of the most expensive areas in the world.

    But it does not mean that I like what I see. As state previously I have a wide skill set that has kept me ahead and got me out of the Rat Race. And I have seen first hand what the love of money can do to others. Which ties in to what you are saying about CEO's, and in this case Jen -Hsun who I'm labeling in the Heavy Narcissist class. Everything in his show was to make him look cool and the leather jacket... We old time Bikers call that type of Dude "Squids" and "Trailer Queens". Slimy that he is. To deliberately inflate the 10 series of card by increasing the price of the RTX cards AND now binning those cards to cripple them down to another price level is just plain old greed.

    I don't like any of this... I don't like the deliberate shakedown on us people who like building things. but there are too many sheeple who will spend their life away and keep Nvidia afloat with shit loads of cash.

    I however won't be one of them.
     
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  9. Advil

    Advil [H]ard|Gawd

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    The game also just doesn't look good.

    average assets and lighting with rtx off, and average assests and proper but unadjusted lighting with RTX on. That makes for neither mode being super compelling.

    The only thing they really managed to show off was the light being properly handled as each window shut. That's good stuff and crazy hard to do traditionally. Everything else was meh.

    I think they talked about their AO. And yeah it was doing it but the scenes they used had so much illumination it was hard to pick up on. The Nvidia Ray Tracing tech demo from months ago shows seriously amazing AO differences when the light sources are realistically set.

    The other RT demos clearly show ample mind blowing quality. The Atomic Heart demo, the Project Sol demo... those look amazing. The question is, what's going on here?

    Trying too hard to shoehorn in RT at the last minute? Or do they just need more time. If they need more time, they should have had it before showing this.
     
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  10. knowom

    knowom Limp Gawd

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    RTX on is much more accurate, but I think the lighting strength's and positioning could be fine tuned a lot better. You also have to keep in mind the way RTX is being faked it probably has a lot less light bounces and the strength was likely a bit over the top and badly positioned in approximation to the strength intensity of it. It's not always easy to get perfect because it's really subjective in nature. There are defiantly area's in real life where you'd get strong bloom like effect similar to to parts of the demo, but maybe a bit less strong in general though light varies at different times of day quite substantially. I think if you played both demo's thru the same area 3 times you'd find the RTX much better overall even if not perfect in terms of lighting intensity and could probably adjust your gamma bit to fix it mostly.
     
  11. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

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    It was the same with HDR rendering in...what game was it...FarCry?
    People whined about how it looked "fake"...and "off"...when in reality it was more like real-life...but I agree...people have a hard time with changes....even for the more realistic.
     
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  12. ZiggyDeath

    ZiggyDeath Limp Gawd

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    I prefer the look of RTX Off, but I feel RTX On is actually a better representation.

    That being said, if this has "revealed" anything to me it is I need a monitor with better contrast ratios, HDR, 10-bit, first.
     
  13. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Not the game changer it was hyped up to be.
    50% of the time it can go either way. 25% of the time it looks better, 25% of the time it looks worse with RTX.

    I hoped for a game changer like the voodoo1 was back in the day.
     
  14. gamerk2

    gamerk2 [H]ard|Gawd

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    My take as well; the lighting effects are definitely more accurate with RTX on. But people have been trained for raster lighting for a very long time, and anything that doesn't look like that is therefor considered to "look worse", even if it's significantly more accurate.

    Also remember that NVIDIA is basically going half-in on Raytracing, using it only for situations that benefit while continuing to do rasterization for everything else.
     
  15. Brent_Justice

    Brent_Justice Moderator

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    That's another good point, you can try to achieve Ray Trace realism all you want, but until everyone actually has displays that can output true 10-bit (none of that 8-bit with FRC crap) and HDR, we won't really be seeing all the benefits.

    Displays are way under emphasized, how can you see something your monitor isn't physically capable of showing you in the first place.
     
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  16. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It's hard to sell something like that online. You have to see it to believe it. And there are not many places where you can see a HDR display in action. I don't think you even can unless you buy one. And I'm certainly not going to blindly. Especially since there aren't even that many on the market. It may only be a 10% hit in performance but it is a much bigger hit on your wallet, which I'm not inclined to gamble. Not that there would be any displays with HDR that I could buy right now that fit my preferences: 3840x1440 120hz+
     
  17. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    I'm just going to wait as that demo didn't impress me as I thought the lighting with RTX on was entirely over done.
     
  18. Darkstone

    Darkstone n00b

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    Agreed. It's kinda like how TV's are displayed on a showroom floor. Put a factory preset display and a properly calibrated display next to each other, and the majority of people will pick the uncalibrated one because it's set to be brighter and pop more. Same thing with music and the "loudness war".
     
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  19. reaper12

    reaper12 2[H]4U

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    It wasn't the GPU that was the main problem with Crysis though. It was horribly CPU bottlenecked. It did look good though.
     
  20. 4saken

    4saken [H]ardForum Junkie

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    same. definitely waiting til next gen at least.
     
  21. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I liken rasterizing to the invisible man holding an invisible light, we have all these imaginary light sources to give us "lighting" but none of it is really point sourced and all of it is drawn, leaving only the developer to tell you how the light should look like. I'm sure developers were over rasterizing as well, it seems most have really praised Nvidia for releasing dedicated hardware towards RT real time.
     
  22. jardows

    jardows [H]ard|Gawd

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    It appears to me, from the narration of the video, that RTX is going to make "realistic" lighting much easier to develop than without. The attraction for the developers is that it will reduce the effort and time required to make it look good. Off the top of my head, this could have several benefits:

    Better graphical quality from indie games as they don't need as huge a budget for development
    Quicker development of AAA games
    More budget freed up from major developers, that they could potentially put into "pet" projects, giving us more of what we, the gamers want.

    I know I'm being fairly optimistic about that last point, but let's think of the possibilities beyond simple "better looking" games.

    I must say, that video is the first RTX demo I've seen that didn't over-gloss everything unnaturally.
     
  23. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    No you don't have to, but Nvidia is marketing the card with the feature, why would you want to turn it off?
     
  24. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

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    Why did I just know you would complain no matter what? :)
     
  25. Crackinjahcs

    Crackinjahcs Limp Gawd

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    The casual gamer probably won't have an RTX card due to price, the ones that can afford it though may complain that they "can't see anything" with RTX on due to deeper shadows and leave the option off.
    The average gamer that can find the gamma slider, and can afford RTX hardware, may just adjust the slider to blow out the shadows anyway (unless the RTX setting overrides gamma calibration).
     
  26. katanaD

    katanaD [H]ard|Gawd

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    Im going to be picking up a RTX 2080ti but mainly to power my vive pro. I only game at 1440, so 4K doesnt matter to me. The ray tracing looks to be interesting and a nice add-on.

    and i have to agree with a couple people above. First, its new and actually more realistic. gonna be interesting to see what it also looks like in action.. not a video of it. kinda like using a static screen shot to "show" you a game..LOL

    and.. I think the biggest impact will be games where the lighting can really add to environmental/moody style games. and that should rock!!
     
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  27. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This may be a sign you need to buy a lottery ticket.
     
  28. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

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    I bet that you will continue down this path...no need for magical skills ;)
     
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  29. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ard as it Gets

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    I don't agree with that...if something looks perceptibly better it will look better regardless of how much people have been 'trained'...the RTX demos look artificial and fake and lack realism for the most part...ray-tracing is the future and it is 100% better then rasterization but the tech is in its infancy and will take time to develop realistic effects

    right now Nvidia is just adding these effects in almost like a post-processing effect to get people to buy their new cards
     
  30. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    latest?cb=20140113174926.jpg
     
  31. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

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    RT is being done real time, I’m not sure what it’s look like post ... all the reflections would probably lag way behind if that were the case.

    Also Nvidia isn’t adding them, the developer is. So while it is in the infancy of the development cycle, it still is more realistic as it is REAL reflections taking place.
     
  32. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

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    you migth try and defelct with a "joke"....but we both know you are not going to change your tune...jokes or no jokes ;)
     
  33. viper1152012

    viper1152012 [H]ard|Gawd

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    "the drop in frame rate illustrates the high cost of utilizing RTX"

    Yeah....no.

    I would like to see some benchmarks with RTX on and off compared to prior gen.

    4K60 with 2080ti Sure.... with RTX no way

    So guess i'll wait for the .....super duper RTX card???? The ughh Titan???
     
  34. Slash3

    Slash3 Limp Gawd

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    I miss the self deprecating hairdryer humor of the era.

    (Don't play this one at high volume. Trust me.)

     
  35. Youn

    Youn [H]ardness Supreme

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    It might be better presented as a blind test... without the framerate drop... I image almost everyone would agree RTX looks better (unless you are looking for signs of RTX and wanna bash card manufacturers)

    it's also similar to the jump from SD to HD, the higher quality is more clearly revealing just how bad things like textures/polygons are... and yea, for me my #1 priority would be LoD pop-in... that stuff is just insanely immersion breaking but a lot seem to have accepted it and can move on...

    lighting is probably a more "fun" challenge for rendering engineers and card manufacturers...
     
  36. d3athf1sh

    d3athf1sh Limp Gawd

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    without raytracing. 4k60.
     
  37. Aireoth

    Aireoth 2[H]4U

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    He has a point though, and I am an nVidia buyer (currently sitting on 4 10 series and 3 9 series cards).

    Why would you pay an outrageous premium for a card, and it's main feature you would just turn off?

    It's been said to death, but RTX just isn't ready for the mainstream.