Method to re-install windows without needing to reinstall apps?

D

Deam

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
248
I want to set up another drive to house all my installed applications. However, I realize at this point that if I ever format the system drive and re-install windows, I will have to reinstall all the apps.

Is there a way to install applications, or take a backup, or anything, where I do not have to reinstall a program after I reformat windows? I.e. some way to keep track of the registry entires made by the program's installer?
 
I heard someone did a Windows Repair running windows xp...and all their programs ran fine and their computer acted as if it was freshly formatted.
 
You can use ghost to make an image of your HD. You can reformat and ghost the image back to get everything back the way it was when you made the image. Windows also has a utility to back up everything, that everyone seems to forget. Start/all programs/accessories/system tools/backup.
 
if you have an xp cd (at least pro)... set your bios to boot to cd first (first boot option)

then when the pc is booting, click to boot from the winxp cd. once the blue setup is loaded it will ask you to enter setup or repair. skip repair, and enter setup. again you will be asked to delete windows or repair, this time your going to do repair!

select the same c: instalation (should be default), and it should only delete main win files but not your other folders.

what sucks about xp is if windows goes byebye, so does all your shit saved to your my documents and desktop folders. kind of shitty of them to have it this way. once i lost my mp3 collection this way
 
Nothing works better than using a combination of Ghost and Sysprep. You can make an image of the drive, with your basic apps already installed, and then pull it down whenever you need to "rebuild". Sysprep will handle the customizations, and within 20 minutes or so, you will have a re-imaged machine.
 
As a side note, if you run Raid 0 you need to have your Ghost disk recognize your Raid Array. Which I haven't set up yet on my game box :(

Anyone have a ghost boot disk which features the Raid configured I could leach? PM me if ya do, thanks! (I have an Abit IC7-G using the Intel Raid, but it doesn't matter if you have something different, thanks!)
 
Grimmda said:
As a side note, if you run Raid 0 you need to have your Ghost disk recognize your Raid Array. Which I haven't set up yet on my game box :(

Anyone have a ghost boot disk which features the Raid configured I could leach? PM me if ya do, thanks! (I have an Abit IC7-G using the Intel Raid, but it doesn't matter if you have something different, thanks!)
Click to expand...
What version of Ghost are you using? Norton Ghost 2003, Norton Ghost 9.0, and Symantec Ghost Corporate 8.0 all used to be able to ghost an image from my Raptor RAID on my IC7 and then my AI7 without an issue. I didn't have to add any drivers or do anything different.
 
Hmmmmm Oh reeeealy? I have Ghost 8 (Corporate) so I'll have to give it a shot. (I guess I never tried it with 8 but I know 7.5 didn't work, so I figured 8 wouldn't)

Thanks for maybe helping me out DJ.

/hijack (kind of)
 
I thought of ghost. The problem with that is that you have to ghost the system every time you install a piece of software, which is annoying. I find that normally, "installing" software means adding registry keys. Is there anyway to monitor what an application does regarding reg-entries so that you can merge them on re-format. The problem with XP repair is that I use ghost when I "reformat", but I want to be able to ghost a fresh install of XP, and then just have the apps on another drive operate normally.
 
you have to do a new backup anytime you change something with ANY backup system. There is no magic app so you dont have to do a new a backup... Repair does not rewrite the registry, it replaces any corrupt or missing system files, if the registry is borked... repair wont fix it.
 
What I was intending is that I like to reformat with a fresh install of windows using ghost...but then after I ghost the install, have some program that will then tell XP where all the applications are and all all the appropriate reg entries for those applications. The problem with ghost is that you may ghost after installing an app AFTER there isa problem with windows that needs a nice format to correct.
 
If I understand the question properly, you want to have all applications on one drive, operating system on another drive, and find some way to be able to quick load the registry information required for the applications after doing a fresh install. Am I right?

I've run into too many problems with Ghost before, and have yet to come across any issues when using Acronis TrueImage. My parents had a 2 HDD setup, but could not image the drive (using Ghost) from the existing 40g drive to the empty 40g drive due for unknown reasons. Four different versions were used, only three of them ran because one was too old and not compatible with their OS (Win2k, SP3 at the time). The 3 that did load restarted the computer and began the imaging process, but after about 15% would scroll an unending display of useless garbage. TrueImage worked the first time, no questions, no complications. Not sure if the later versions of Ghost can do it, but TrueImage can clone drives from inside windows without requiring a restart.

Anyway, the main question. I do not know of a program that can be used to monitor exactly what changes are made to the registry during installation, but sometimes there is a .reg file that can be manually merged. If such a file exists, it would either be somewhere inside the folder that the program was installed to, or maybe on the CD. Not certain if that file would contain all the registry information that would be inserted during a normal installation, but it might be enough. Also, some programs don't need any registry code to work: I tested this once when I needed to reformat my OS hard drive, but all my games were kept on a separate physical disk, and most of them worked without requiring a reinstall.

*lightbulb*... You could always make a backup of the registry before blowing Windows away, and then merge the entire old registry into the new one after you're done reinstalling. The only downside would be all the extra code that isn't needed, but using a program like RegVac (which scans for bogus code in the registry). This would allow for all the necessary code to be in the registry for the applications to run just as they did before...in theory. Some applications these days also put a little something into a hidden directory deep inside the Documents & Settings folder, but there's nothing wrong with copying that entire directory before you reformat. You'd want to save your other files in there anyway.


What you're asking I have never accomplished before, but I have also never thought about all the details required for it to work. I'm not sure if what you're wanting to do would require more time and effort than just reinstalling, or even if its possible; but if you develop a method that works, and is less time consuming than reinstallation, please come back and let us know.

Good Luck
 
BuGaLoU said:
No one has mentioned sysprep yet? Assuming its XP thats the way to go.
Click to expand...
'Twas mentioned above, in my post where I suggest combining it with Ghost.
 
BuGaLoU said:
No one has mentioned sysprep yet? Assuming its XP thats the way to go.
Click to expand...

Sysprep, as in the case of the stickied thread about swapping a motherboard, is not always 100% reliable. I learned this recently, while attempting to use it while swapping an Epox board with an Intel chipset, with a temp Shuttle board with an Intel chipset. It didn't work, got stuck in a loop with rebooting. My theory is that SP2 played a part in it's failure.

Once I get my Epox board back, I'll give sysprep another try, but I'm not putting a lot of faith in it.
 
Badger_sly said:
Sysprep, as in the case of the stickied thread about swapping a motherboard, is not always 100% reliable. I learned this recently, while attempting to use it while swapping an Epox board with an Intel chipset, with a temp Shuttle board with an Intel chipset. It didn't work, got stuck in a loop with rebooting. My theory is that SP2 played a part in it's failure.

Once I get my Epox board back, I'll give sysprep another try, but I'm not putting a lot of faith in it.
Click to expand...
True, but in those cases, you are no worse off than before. A repair re-install could correct other issues created by sysprep. Worse case is a new load, again no worse off than before you ran it.

I look at the sysprep method as definatly worth trying. It only takes a few minutes to run and see if it'll work.
 
Phoenix86 said:
True, but in those cases, you are no worse off than before. A repair re-install could correct other issues created by sysprep. Worse case is a new load, again no worse off than before you ran it.

I look at the sysprep method as definatly worth trying. It only takes a few minutes to run and see if it'll work.
Click to expand...

True, it's worth a try.

The different motherboard had to go in temporarily, so it would have been a clean install anyway. Oh, and after the sysprep failure I tried the xp repair. While it got me into Windows, it was pretty horrible: Windows Update didn't work, DX9c wouldn't install, mouse jumped around the screen when moving, and the boot up time was about 5+ minutes for no apparent reason.
 
mhenley said:
If I understand the question properly, you want to have all applications on one drive, operating system on another drive, and find some way to be able to quick load the registry information required for the applications after doing a fresh install. Am I right?

I've run into too many problems with Ghost before, and have yet to come across any issues when using Acronis TrueImage. My parents had a 2 HDD setup, but could not image the drive (using Ghost) from the existing 40g drive to the empty 40g drive due for unknown reasons. Four different versions were used, only three of them ran because one was too old and not compatible with their OS (Win2k, SP3 at the time). The 3 that did load restarted the computer and began the imaging process, but after about 15% would scroll an unending display of useless garbage. TrueImage worked the first time, no questions, no complications. Not sure if the later versions of Ghost can do it, but TrueImage can clone drives from inside windows without requiring a restart.

Anyway, the main question. I do not know of a program that can be used to monitor exactly what changes are made to the registry during installation, but sometimes there is a .reg file that can be manually merged. If such a file exists, it would either be somewhere inside the folder that the program was installed to, or maybe on the CD. Not certain if that file would contain all the registry information that would be inserted during a normal installation, but it might be enough. Also, some programs don't need any registry code to work: I tested this once when I needed to reformat my OS hard drive, but all my games were kept on a separate physical disk, and most of them worked without requiring a reinstall.

*lightbulb*... You could always make a backup of the registry before blowing Windows away, and then merge the entire old registry into the new one after you're done reinstalling. The only downside would be all the extra code that isn't needed, but using a program like RegVac (which scans for bogus code in the registry). This would allow for all the necessary code to be in the registry for the applications to run just as they did before...in theory. Some applications these days also put a little something into a hidden directory deep inside the Documents & Settings folder, but there's nothing wrong with copying that entire directory before you reformat. You'd want to save your other files in there anyway.


What you're asking I have never accomplished before, but I have also never thought about all the details required for it to work. I'm not sure if what you're wanting to do would require more time and effort than just reinstalling, or even if its possible; but if you develop a method that works, and is less time consuming than reinstallation, please come back and let us know.

Good Luck
Click to expand...


Yes, this is basically what I am talking about. I don't want to GHOST the system drive because if I have to format, it usually because the OS is fubard and I can't be bothered to try to figure out what I have done. I guess I could do a reg image before and after I install a piece of software, and just save the difference. Is this possible? I will research it. Admittedly, if the program also adds files through the XP install, then it simply won't work, but you got my question. I hate having to re-install all my games after I do a Ghost format. With HL-2 it can take hours for it to update.
 
I found out you can backup HL2 steam files, so that is one less thing to worry about. But I would still love a way to have on reg file to merge after a format so that everything works as it did prior to the ghosting of the system drive.
 
I've decided to randomly bump my thread as I'm still interested in a way to do this.

Again, the question is, is there a way to do something with the registry to monitor what exactly an application does when it's installed, so that you can make a bunch of reg files to merge on a fresh install of windows so you don't have to re-install all the applications?

Ghost/Backup doesn't usually work because often, the reason I'm reformating is something causd by a program or software installed prior to more recent applications.
 
jroe52 said:
what sucks about xp is if windows goes byebye, so does all your shit saved to your my documents and desktop folders. kind of shitty of them to have it this way. once i lost my mp3 collection this way
Click to expand...
not if you set your My Documents folder to be on D: Drive ;)

I always format when things go wrong without having to worry about my MP3s or pictures going away ;)
 
Deam said:
Yes, this is basically what I am talking about. I don't want to GHOST the system drive because if I have to format, it usually because the OS is fubard and I can't be bothered to try to figure out what I have done. I guess I could do a reg image before and after I install a piece of software, and just save the difference. Is this possible? I will research it. Admittedly, if the program also adds files through the XP install, then it simply won't work, but you got my question. I hate having to re-install all my games after I do a Ghost format. With HL-2 it can take hours for it to update.
Click to expand...
what are u talking about? do u even know how Ghost works?

you install the OS + all software you need and take a backup image using ghost.

Then when something goes wrong, you just restore that image back! so C: drive becomes just the way u left it when everything was freshly installed!

There is no better way! :rolleyes:
 
MaXimus666 said:
what are u talking about? do u even know how Ghost works?

you install the OS + all software you need and take a backup image using ghost.

Then when something goes wrong, you just restore that image back! so C: drive becomes just the way u left it when everything was freshly installed!

There is no better way! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Save your :rolleyes: when you better understand what I'm talking about. My situation may be different from yours, because A) I won't Ghost every time I install a new application, and B), I often install pograms I don't have when I first install windows. Your method is correct if I have every program I need at the beginning. But that is rarely the case, except for maybe MS Office. I install new games and applications all the time.
 
is there a way to do something with the registry to monitor what exactly an application does when it's installed
Click to expand...
Yes, there is a program called windiff or regdiff, can't remember the exact name. Basically it takes a snapshot of the files and registry, you make your changes, and it takes another snapshot and compares the two.

This is not your best solution, though it's feasible (time prohibitive).

The way this is done in a corporate environment is through AD, it's a slightly different process. This method installs software with pre-answered questions for the installer. The result is you get the same install of each PC. It requires 2K server or 2K3 with AD. It's not feasible for a couple of machines (cost and time prohibitive).

How many PCs are you talking here? Because I get the feeling it's just two or three, and none of these solutions are worth the effort unless you just want to learn.
 
It is just one computer.

My situation is simple. I generally install a lot of programs and games over time, after any given installation of windows. I don't normally reinstall windows, I take a ghost image of the fresh windows install, and then format and copy the ghost image to the OS drive. However, I normally install most of my games and applications to another drive, to avoid having them erased during the above mentioned process. Yet, as is often the case, I end up having to reinstall the programs anyways because they do not work when you put back a prior ghost image of windows (obviously).

What I was trying to do is figure out how to determine what changes in the windows registry when I install a game, or program, and make a .reg file of these changes, so that when I do my ghost re-install of the fresh operating system, I can just start merging these reg-files to make windows think that I have "installed" the programs and games.

The timeline is where the previous poster seemed to not understand and mock my knowledge of Ghost. This is over a long period of time. It's not like I install every program I need right after the installation of the OS, or else Ghosting would work as he/she suggested. For example, I install UT 2k4 on another drive. Everything is happy. However, prior to that, I played with some other programs that hurt my windows installation, and the damage it caused requiring the reinstall of the OS existed before I installed UT2k4. So, I have to reinstall windows. But UT 2K4 doesn't work anymore, so I have to break out hte 5 cds and reinstall it to the other drive again, not because the data is there, but only because windows doesn't have the registry information and the game thinks its not installed when you run the exe.
 
jroe52 said:
what sucks about xp is if windows goes byebye, so does all your shit saved to your my documents and desktop folders. kind of shitty of them to have it this way. once i lost my mp3 collection this way
Click to expand...

it just gets moved and renamed to I think a temp folder of some kind , which would then probably get erased the first time you ran something like ccleaner or the like..

... to avoid having to look for it tho , I always create my own "My Documents" folder on my secondary drive (or wherever else you would want to put it) and then after a reinstall just change the my document address to point to my own my documents folder..

 
Ok, it seems many of you are forgetting that Windows programs love to install files within the C:\Windows and C:\Windows\System32 directories. Backing up the Registry is very important as this is the true "memory/brain" of a Windows system, but you must understand that files are installed all over the place within Windows. True, game software is a little better at keeping their files within their installation directories but most programs don't follow that logic.

Another thing to think about is the number of registry entries that are added/modifed/deleted when most programs are installed. I am not just talking about 100 registry entries, but thousands of registry entries. Usually regdiff is the only way to capture them all and that does take quite a bit of technical expertise and time.

There is a reason why everyone is saying to use Ghost, Acronis, Windows NT Backup, etc. because at the end of the day you'll save yourself aggrivation and time. Find what's best for you by running tests with each of these products and find the one you like the most. You said that you don't want to have a backup of a fubar system. Then the type of backup you want is an Incremental backup. With this type of backup you can save one day, two days, weeks or months (if you have the disk space) of backup/restore points that you can use restore to. All the programs that people have mentioned can do Incremental backups.

Believe me, my job is to almost "hack" software into working within a system that contains over a 100 pieces of installed software. I know software installations well and I live in the registry.
 
Check out windiff, though I think you will spend more time creating the reg files than simply installing the apps on the second PC.

If you do them "both at once" processing time shorter for each machine.
 
The thing is I don't think it's complicated if you created partitions dedicated to their own dept such as D: Games and E: Tools. All you have to do is create shortcuts to them and it'll run fine. djnes said it's not worth putting programs out on separate partitions "since you will have to re-install them anyway". But with my testing - seeing that all my programs on separate partitions actually worked - I sort of advised against installing it on C: All you have to do is create shortcuts to the .exe files. Not that complicated. I formatted my main C drive (Windows) with my partitions D and E (games and software) left intact. Once I re-installed Windows XP all over again, all programs on D and E worked. I don't know why djnes said it had to be reinstalled.. Hmm..

-J.
 
GeForceX said:
The thing is I don't think it's complicated if you created partitions dedicated to their own dept such as D: Games and E: Tools. All you have to do is create shortcuts to them and it'll run fine...Once I re-installed Windows XP all over again, all programs on D and E worked...

-J.
Click to expand...

In general this does not work. Most Windows software goes through this process: the main executable looks first within a machine's HKCR and HKLM to know where needed files, system or program, are located. Afterwards, the main executable looks into HKCU and HK_USERS to load up specific settings for the program.

Software I have come across that does not need this process are small applications that are specifically coded to not need registry entries in order to run. Also, all files that are needed are located in the directory that the main executable is located in. Others are software applications that have been "patched" :eek: to be run anywhere without the need for proper installations.
 
Oh, a quick test to see if you can just reformat/reinstall your Windows XP and your programs will still work is to copy the just the installation directory (i.e. usually "C:\Program Files\<software x>") to another machine where it has never been installed and run the main executable. If it works then yeah, you can format your main partition without problems. If it gives a series of errors or just crashes, well, you'll need either the missing systems files within "c:\windows", "c:\windows\system32" and/or missing registry entries.

Use the freely available VMware Server Beta to create another Windows installation if you are short on actual machines. The VMware Server Beta is actually built on the tried and true VMware GSX server.
 
Curious - if programs work well without the need of inputting it in the registry, then why ever need the registry at all? It doesn't make it any faster or slower, does it? For example... Quake 3 has no registry installation or so it seems. It ran without a hitch with the same performance level.

-J.
 
The vast majority of apps will require the registry, so I still stand by the statements of not moving out your installed apps to another partition. I know there are some apps that run as "stand-alone" apps, but they are in the minority. It would be even more of a nightmare to copy out some apps, and leave some on the C drive, so the facts and logic all state, to leave them on the C drive. There's still no reason to do it, and it doesn't save any time. As long as some apps require the registry, there's never going to be a reason to move them out to another partition.
 
So I guess whether you install apps on "C" drive, or other drives/partitions, unless i'm going to go through the process of checking all reg and file changes prior to and after installation for ALL programs, I might as well just reinstall. Currently, I just rename the folder, install, delete the new folder, and put the original name back, so all settings in files remain the same.

I tried regmon for a different reason, and I don't know if that would work because so much was changing when windows was "standing still". I.e. many things were going on in the background. I don't know if you would be able to filter out the specific changes that a given program would do.

As stated in response to GeForceX, it is rare that programs will work without being reinstalled. iD games are rare in that they do work, but UT2k4 does not, HL2 does not, etc. HL2 does have a backup, which is nice, but most games and applications lack this feature. The need for registry must be due to the fact that there are sometimes many interactions between files for various programs, from basic file associations, to many other things which I don't know. Look at the Mac OS for non-registry based installation system, where you can (at least last time I used a Mac), copy programs from one folder to another and it still works. I.e. there is no "installation" per se.

I do appreciate the positive responses to this question. Moving applications to another drive is good if you like to screw aroudn with your OS and format/reinstall more than the usual person. Or, if you have a bigger drive that your OS is not on. It seems not to be that great of a method though given the need to reinstall applications
 
Deam, don't be discourage by how you are setting up your machine. You are on the right track. Installing your games and applications on a seperate drive means what you have to back up on your c:\ drive will be small. This is way better than trying to backup 80G of Windows installation files, gaming applications and numerious software applications. As MaXimus666 stated, have your My Documents folder on a seperate drive also. This way you won't lose pictures, music, etc.

Since you are familiar with Ghost, use Ghost to backup your C:\ drive. Do this daily, weekly, monthly depending on how much disk space you have on your other drives or how many DVD's you want to burn. This way if your Windows installation does crater, then all you'll have to do is restore the main Windows installation and you'll be good to go. And since you'll have a quite a few backups to restore from, most of those backups will be from an OS that wasn't corrupted.
 
chojin_1999 said:
Installing your games and applications on a seperate drive means what you have to back up on your c:\ drive will be small.
Click to expand...

*sigh*

Have you ever tried to restore a hosed OS in that situation?

Sure there's less to back up, but when you reformat how are you going to restore all the registry entries? The programs that are stored on the seperate disk/partition will not work w/o them.

In about a dozen threads where this has been discussed I have *yet* to have someone explain why putting your apps on a seperate partition is a good idea.
 
Phoenix86 said:
In about a dozen threads where this has been discussed I have *yet* to have someone explain why putting your apps on a seperate partition is a good idea.
Click to expand...
No one will come up with a good reason, as long as the registry is used. It's going to be one of those things people do because it makes them feel like all warm and fuzzy inside, without every stopping to ask themselves "should I be doing this?"
 
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