Mercedes Delivers Its First F-Cell Vehicle

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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While most car manufacturers are experimenting with electric powered automobiles, Mercedes has gone off in a totally different direction. Mercedes has been experimenting and perfecting a new gas engine. Not your normal gasoline engine, but Hydrogen. Mercedes has just delivered its first of 70 F-cell Hydrogen cars this week. True to form for Mercedes-Benz, even the research program is not cheap. Lucky participants in the program still have to pay $850 a month for the privilege, but hey…..it’s a Mercedes . :D
 
Where do you go to refuel?

How much does Hydrogen even cost per gal?


Go google, I know...
 
Accortding to the article....

California Fuel Cell Partnership spokesperson Chris White says hydrogen will initially cost about $5-6 per kilogram. The Mercedes-Benz F-Cell holds 3.7 kilograms, so a fill-up would cost about $20, but the price of hydrogen should be halved as production ramps up over the next few years
 
King Icewind said:
Where do you go to refuel?

How much does Hydrogen even cost per gal?


Go google, I know...
Click to expand...

So it looks like the majority of places to refuel are in California.

The link says $20 for a fill up, but that seems low to me.


Also it looks like temperatures below 32F (freezing) is a problem for fuel cells.
 
Sigh. Why do they do this? Hydrogen is simply not the answer. A new infrastructure we have to build, issues with storage, and the fact that you have to somehow make the hydrogen in the first place is all overlooked. People think hydrogen is so clean, yet no one thinks of where it comes from or how it is made.

Ugh...I really wish the government put more money into battery research.
 
Achron said:
Sigh. Why do they do this? Hydrogen is simply not the answer. A new infrastructure we have to build, issues with storage, and the fact that you have to somehow make the hydrogen in the first place is all overlooked. People think hydrogen is so clean, yet no one thinks of where it comes from or how it is made.

Ugh...I really wish the government put more money into battery research.
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Sometimes having different solutions to a problem is a good thing and I like the fact that we're trying different things. Overall it's another step away from our dependency on gasoline and that's the bigger picture here.
 
Wshmaster0 said:
Sometimes having different solutions to a problem is a good thing and I like the fact that we're trying different things. Overall it's another step away from our dependency on gasoline and that's the bigger picture here.
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I agree...but the fact is that the infrastructure isn't there and will have to be created from the ground up. Granted, we have to re-do our electric infrastructure anyway...but yeah. That's another discussion.
 
Although this is awesome news, its still sad it took this long to get this far.
 
Achron said:
I agree...but the fact is that the infrastructure isn't there and will have to be created from the ground up. Granted, we have to re-do our electric infrastructure anyway...but yeah. That's another discussion.
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Neither was the infrastructure for gasoline there at first, it had to be built out before cars really came into their own. Same thing with hydrogen and electric cars too. Not too many places have spots to charge up an electric car either.
 
People gripe about electric cars, but you can find an electric plug-in easier that a filling station that has hydrogen.
 
Achron said:
Sigh. Why do they do this? Hydrogen is simply not the answer. A new infrastructure we have to build, issues with storage, and the fact that you have to somehow make the hydrogen in the first place is all overlooked. People think hydrogen is so clean, yet no one thinks of where it comes from or how it is made.

Ugh...I really wish the government put more money into battery research.
Click to expand...

Why should the government put money into battery research? This is a private sector problem. Battery research should be funded by the auto and computer industries, not by taxes. Let the government fix the power grid so we can all charge our new electric cars.
 
Hydrogen being a highly flammable material, can result in a huge explosion of the car, even on the slightest of collision with some other heavy object.
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no thanks.

For proper performance, hydrogen powered cars have some temperature restrictions. At places where the temperature goes below the freezing point, there are chances that the water in the fuel cells may freeze.
Click to expand...

no thanks again.
 
KatalDT said:
Looks like an obese Prius.
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If you're going to dump on a car, at least do it properly. It looks nothing like a Prius. It's an A-class, which looks like a turd beaten with an ugly stick, but it's a car that has looked pretty much the same since 1997.

The amount of information, or lack thereof, about hydrogen fuel technology in this thread is amazing. Do some research people. I did an report on this 6 years ago, and even then, the technology had been developed far enough to prevent a "Hindenburg" disaster. The tech has only progressed since then; the cars are specifically designed to prevent any issues with the hydrogen fuel, and it has been proven to be safer in crashes than gas powered counterparts. I'm not an advocate of hydrogen fuel, but at least get your facts straight.
 
Where does electricity come from? If you live in the US probably a coal plant. The Nissan leaf takes 7 hours to charge on 220 volts. it's like leaving your oven on 7 hours a day every day. What to you think that would do to out already taxed electric grid or your wallet? Plug in cars are not the answer.
The arguments against hydrogen seem very similar to gasoline.
 
Cabn12 said:
Where does electricity come from? If you live in the US probably a coal plant. The Nissan leaf takes 7 hours to charge on 220 volts. it's like leaving your oven on 7 hours a day every day. What to you think that would do to out already taxed electric grid or your wallet?
Click to expand...

I pay 7 cents a kilowatt-hour, or so(up to 9 cents I think), so "leaving my oven on for 7 hours a day every day" would cost me about a dollar every day. Maybe I have extra money because I don't drink coffee in the morning, but switch your Starbucks to a Timmie's and there's your dollar(well, more, really).
 
Ugh@news section and no edit:

As for the power coming from coal, that makes no difference to the overall debate if you're comparing Hydrogen with Electricity because in order to get hydrogen you need to use electricty. No matter where the electricity comes from to source the hydrogen, it's still less efficient(on the face of it, once you include losses from transport and storage it gets worse) overall than just using the electricity to power motors.
 
Cabn12 said:
Where does electricity come from? If you live in the US probably a coal plant. The Nissan leaf takes 7 hours to charge on 220 volts. it's like leaving your oven on 7 hours a day every day. What to you think that would do to out already taxed electric grid or your wallet? Plug in cars are not the answer.
The arguments against hydrogen seem very similar to gasoline.
Click to expand...

"Today hydrogen is mainly produced (90%) from fossil sources"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy

Which is worse?
 
Why is it that they relentlessly pursue non cost effective, potentially dangerous fuel sources? Hydrogen has stability problems, not to mention it's expensive to extract and they'd have to revamp the fueling infrastructure. Ethanol is not really viable, why turn food into fuel? It's also not economical, takes a lot of space to grow crops & if the crop is bad...fuel shortage! Biodiesel is cheap, easy to make, they can literally make biodiesel from pond scum (algae) in small, low cost facilities as opposed to large fields like corn and other plants, and it's not a fussy about growing conditions as other plants, it also doesn't need a clean water supply, and as a bonus it has a much higher yield. It doesn't have the high explosive potential of hydrogen, and it wouldn't be necessary to radically change the fueling stations.

Google pond scum biodiesel/biofuel & wonder why it's not the "alternative" fuel of choice. Some people must have a huge vested interest in dead end fuel research or we'd be pumping dirt cheap fuel.

In feb 2010 DARPA said biofuel from algae could cost $1 per gallon, then they said refining it into jet fuel should cost under $3 per gallon.

http://www.heatingoil.com/blog/darpa-biofuel-from-algae-could-cost-only-1-per-gallon215/
 
I think the big breakthrough with alt energy will be a biological organism that can produce a suitable fuel for the future.
 
Biofuels produce 4 times the CO2 that petrolium fuels do. That fact sends the greenies into orbit about causing "climate change", if anyone still believes that BS.
 
Achron said:
Sigh. Why do they do this? Hydrogen is simply not the answer. A new infrastructure we have to build, issues with storage, and the fact that you have to somehow make the hydrogen in the first place is all overlooked. People think hydrogen is so clean, yet no one thinks of where it comes from or how it is made.

Ugh...I really wish the government put more money into battery research.
Click to expand...

You think battery chemistry is clean? You think the extraction process from the earth to purify that chemistry for the batteries is clean? And why are you running to government to help you solve that problem? You can use the current infrastructure you have with some modifications to use hydrogen.
 
Everyone can keep there electric and hydro cars. My french fry smelling desiel keeps my fuel costs down and the used cooking oil burns cleaner then desiel fuel. Yes I have to start it on desiel but once running I switch it over and poof it smells like food. Makes me hungry all the time.
 
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