Meet Julie Larson-Green, The New Head of Windows

stealthy123 said:
I have ended up swapping all of my PCs to win8 after using it for a while.

I really like metro, and find it much faster to interact with than the start button, once I figured it out.
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Tell me how many clicks it takes you to get to your device manager from your desktop in W8.

In Windows 7 it takes four.
 
Krenum said:
Tell me how many clicks it takes you to get to your device manager from your desktop in W8.

In Windows 7 it takes four.
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Two, right click on lower left hot corner which brings up the Power Menu and then left click on Device Manager.
 
Mister Turtle, how many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop?
 
Globox said:
i really hope she can fix all this damage, i have such a disdain for W8
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i sure hope so. im having trouble sleeping at night knowing you are so upset with the direction microsoft has chosen. :rolleyes:
 
She's not going to 'fix' anything. She's firmly on record saying she's behind Metro. Frankly, no one at MS seems to have a clue about how to proceed.
 
MrCrispy said:
She's not going to 'fix' anything. She's firmly on record saying she's behind Metro. Frankly, no one at MS seems to have a clue about how to proceed.
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And apparently the masses don't either. About half are sold on Metro, the other half either want it gone completely or just an option... So, there are three options there. I wouldn't mind seeing it done a bit better. Maybe a GPO to go back to 'classic' Windows for enterprises.
 
The fact is there is no technical leadership in the Windows group anymore. Ballmer and JLG have no technical background and this is not good for the future of the company's core product.
 
MrCrispy said:
She's not going to 'fix' anything. She's firmly on record saying she's behind Metro. Frankly, no one at MS seems to have a clue about how to proceed.
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Metro is certainly the right approach for the company, at least until something else seems more relevant.

By that I mean Metro is the right design language and the right touch interface (for the most part). I'm still not convinced that Metro is the right desktop UI implementation.
 
Krenum said:
Tell me how many clicks it takes you to get to your device manager from your desktop in W8.

In Windows 7 it takes four.
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heatlesssun said:
Two, right click on lower left hot corner which brings up the Power Menu and then left click on Device Manager.
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"Boom.....Roasted" :)

I'm still on the fence about win8. The one really cool thing is how the desktop/phone are now sharing the same ecosystem. The talks so far is that the next xbox will also run off a similar shared core. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
wonderfield said:
Metro is certainly the right approach for the company, at least until something else seems more relevant.

By that I mean Metro is the right design language and the right touch interface (for the most part). I'm still not convinced that Metro is the right desktop UI implementation.
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Exactly. I've yet to see anything terribly wrong with Win8 for desktop use, but I've yet to see a compelling reason to switch from Win7. For WP8/tablet/app market etc. use, it seems like they finally got it mostly right.

I don't think this changing of the guard is a bad move. Microsoft is going to have to compete with Apple in the integration of these market spaces.

In the mean time, I doubt they are terribly concerned about us not switching to Win8.
 
MrCrispy said:
The fact is there is no technical leadership in the Windows group anymore. Ballmer and JLG have no technical background and this is not good for the future of the company's core product.
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She's a programmer with masters in CS and started in MS in the visual studio group. I would say she has more actual expertise and leadership than the majority of posters here.
 
Teenk9 said:
She's a programmer with masters in CS and started in MS in the visual studio group. I would say she has more actual expertise and leadership than the majority of posters here.
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Yes, she does. It's not like they picked some gal up from the mail room. She was on the team and really helped out. She is very well qualified. I'm definitely looking forward to see what she comes up with.
 
I fail to see how anyone is confused about how to fix the whole metro thing. Default metro ui on touch devices, default aero on non touch and give people a toggle to turn it on or off on either. Problem solved, everyone is happy and Microsoft gets to keep their customers. It confounds me why anyone would be against choice.
 
BigJayDogg3 said:
Really? That's how you want to start the thread off?

Can we not have a single W8 related thread where it doesn't devolve into "W8 doesn't suck," and "W8 is the worst thing evar!!!"?
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This thread is about Windows and the future of Windows so Windows 8 is kind of a big deal.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I fail to see how anyone is confused about how to fix the whole metro thing. Default metro ui on touch devices, default aero on non touch and give people a toggle to turn it on or off on either. Problem solved, everyone is happy and Microsoft gets to keep their customers. It confounds me why anyone would be against choice.
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But what does this do other than appease people with a UI for form factors that are not growing very fast? At some point after 17, then 20 then 25 years the Windows becomes nothing more than a dinosaur that then has no hope for any future because the same old thing kept getting pushed until it died of old age.
 
rhexis said:
i sure hope so. im having trouble sleeping at night knowing you are so upset with the direction microsoft has chosen. :rolleyes:
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i just can't see the justification of having a tablet operating system on a desktop
 
heatlesssun said:
But what does this do other than appease people with a UI for form factors that are not growing very fast? At some point after 17, then 20 then 25 years the Windows becomes nothing more than a dinosaur that then has no hope for any future because the same old thing kept getting pushed until it died of old age.
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Personally, I think a better analogy might be "cutting off your nose, to spite your face."

Microsoft is following a trend that too many companies follow -- trying to refocus everything on "growth" to increase their stock prices. A much better model to follow would be Jeff Bezos and Amazon, ignore the short term issues and stock prices and focus on long term sustainability and the "bigger picture".

With Windows 8, Microsoft is basically risking a well established desktop/laptop market in exchange for a perceived future growth market with tablets. Yes, there are a lot of iPad's selling (and quite a few Android tablets as well), but the vast majority of them I see end up as glorified MP3/Video/Game players and are rarely used for much else (with the notable exception being that a lot are used by lawyers in courtrooms situations and by quite a few doctors a portable data entry devices). Even in these cases, the real work is not done on the tablet but on the Mac or PC that the tablet syncs with.

Windows 8 has the POTENTIAL to be a great platform for this -- a good tablet OS with near perfect sync capability with the full Windows ecosystem. To do this, they did NOT need to torque the desktop UI into the hybrid, inconsistent, unfinished abomination they have ultimately shipped. Under the hood Windows 8 is Windows 7 plus improvements, but the UI feels like something Fisher-Price could have designed.

Innovation is a good thing -- even revolutionary innovation -- but it must be handled VERY carefully, especially when the products competition is actually your OWN product! You are MUCH better off to have two dissimilar products on the market that cater to different niches (i.e. desktop and tablet) than to try to ram one product down everyone's throat. By going with two versions that work well TOGETHER, you actually stand to potentially GAIN market share. By doing what they have done, Microsoft has raised the potential for possibly losing market share in the desktop space even if they do grow, the as yet unproven, Windows 8 tablet market.

I have seen this type behavior in many other companies (some that I have worked for). Most of them are no longer around or are pitiful shell's of the companies they once were. This type behavior is really good at jacking up the stock price quickly (which may be good if your goal is to inflate the price and then dump your shares and jump ship), but the company itself usually suffers the consequences later (with the stock price plummeting about the same time).

It's sort of like a restaurant (e.g. Ruby Tuesday's) that spreads nationwide, racks up good sales, good profitability, and a loyal client base -- which is then bought by another company, who, rather than keeping things much the same and maintaining the same model that made the company successful in the first place, instead decides to change the ENTIRE menu and focus of the chain nationwide to attract "new business", without considering that all of their CURRENT customers are going to be royally ticked and may quit eating there. This is why, for the last several years, the local Ruby's parking lot was still half empty even at 6pm on a Friday night -- that is now only starting to improve since they have added "new" menu items (many of which are simply their original items they never should have removed in the first place). I still really miss the *original/first* Ruby's on the UT strip and their original menu.

There is such a thing as customer loyalty and maintaining a market -- and far too many companies have forgotten that, it is almost impossible to ever add enough new sales to recoup the losses caused by alienating all of your current customer base.
 
heatlesssun said:
But what does this do other than appease people with a UI for form factors that are not growing very fast? At some point after 17, then 20 then 25 years the Windows becomes nothing more than a dinosaur that then has no hope for any future because the same old thing kept getting pushed until it died of old age.
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There are a hundred ways to enable touch in Windows that are better than what they did in Win 8. You keep repeating this as if Metro on the desktop was the only possible solution.
 
heatlesssun said:
But what does this do other than appease people with a UI for form factors that are not growing very fast? At some point after 17, then 20 then 25 years the Windows becomes nothing more than a dinosaur that then has no hope for any future because the same old thing kept getting pushed until it died of old age.
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Keeps their existing customer base, doesn't alienate large swaths of their customer base, gives those being extremely vocal about their displeasure of the new UI a choice in the matter, Presents the opportunity for the UI to actually be given a fair chance, because if it is as good as they think it is it will take off. Cramming it down peoples throats is having the opposite effect. You know, all the things Win 8 is currently managing to do with pissing off the largest portion of MS's customer base. Doesn't matter if Tablets are the fastest growing market, their sales are still a drop in the bucket compared to standard Windows volume. You keep preaching this point like it actually matters, pity it actually doesn't.
 
MrCrispy said:
There are a hundred ways to enable touch in Windows that are better than what they did in Win 8. You keep repeating this as if Metro on the desktop was the only possible solution.
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There's always options and room for improvement, I've never said otherwise. But what I do believe is that the notion of keeping the Windows desktop just the same and the concept of a Metro off switch isn't a long term solution to anything if desktops and laptops are a stagnant market. Tablets and desktops are going to converge in time, it's just inevitable, the platforms just don't do inherently different things, surfing the web, playing games, reading content, even creating content on a tablet is shared between the platforms. There's no doubt that tablets are going to improve in content creation ability, they are already.
 
heatlesssun said:
There's always options and room for improvement, I've never said otherwise. But what I do believe is that the notion of keeping the Windows desktop just the same and the concept of a Metro off switch isn't a long term solution to anything if desktops and laptops are a stagnant market. Tablets and desktops are going to converge in time, it's just inevitable, the platforms just don't do inherently different things, surfing the web, playing games, reading content, even creating content on a tablet is shared between the platforms. There's no doubt that tablets are going to improve in content creation ability, they are already.
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Will the tablet likely replace the desktop in the majority of homes? Yes I would agree with that.

Will the tablet replace the desktop in the corporate environment? Not likely, technology that is portable tends to have legs in the corporate environment.

Will the tablet replace the desktop as a gaming platform? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh i'm sorry, you were being serious...HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH oh god..I can't stop..HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. While fun games like Angry birds are time wasters, far from the gaming experience a desktop with a 24"+ single or multi-monitor rig can provide.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Keeps their existing customer base, doesn't alienate large swaths of their customer base, gives those being extremely vocal about their displeasure of the new UI a choice in the matter, Presents the opportunity for the UI to actually be given a fair chance, because if it is as good as they think it is it will take off. Cramming it down peoples throats is having the opposite effect. You know, all the things Win 8 is currently managing to do with pissing off the largest portion of MS's customer base. Doesn't matter if Tablets are the fastest growing market, their sales are still a drop in the bucket compared to standard Windows volume. You keep preaching this point like it actually matters, pity it actually doesn't.
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I just don't buy adding in a Metro off switch instantly makes Windows 8 loved by all. It goes in the face of history were people don't upgrade, especially businesses that never upgrade to the latest and greatest Windows and that a supermajority of new versions of Windows come with new hardware, and new hardware is a key part of Windows 8, much more so than prior versions of Windows. Holding on to the old UI doesn't help develop the touch and tablet aspects of Windows, those are FAR more important to the future growth of Windows than the desktop.
 
heatlesssun said:
There's always options and room for improvement, I've never said otherwise. But what I do believe is that the notion of keeping the Windows desktop just the same and the concept of a Metro off switch isn't a long term solution to anything if desktops and laptops are a stagnant market. Tablets and desktops are going to converge in time, it's just inevitable, the platforms just don't do inherently different things, surfing the web, playing games, reading content, even creating content on a tablet is shared between the platforms. There's no doubt that tablets are going to improve in content creation ability, they are already.
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Forcing desktop users to use Metro, forcing desktop OS to use Metro version of said apps, forcing these apps to be fullscreen, and most of all, forcing UI like charms bar, these were all done because they claimed they same UI should work on tablet and pc (which is a stupid goal as any UI designer will tell you). Then on top of that, they ignore their own rule because of course WP8 doesn't have the stupid charms bar. So why force it on the pc?

Win 8 is less about convergence than a fanatical obsessive desire to force a UI metaphor against all common wisdom, user feedback, and design principles.

No one said the desktop experience had to stay the same, or a Metro 'switch'. There are many ways to gracefully integrate the 2. Look at the artificial useless technical limits placed in WinRT which many developers are furious about, just so they could force Metro apps onto a single screen and not let them be windowed. Crap like this is why this is a failure - they went out of their way to force a phone/tablet UI on a pc.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Will the tablet replace the desktop as a gaming platform? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh i'm sorry, you were being serious...HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH oh god..I can't stop..HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. While fun games like Angry birds are time wasters, far from the gaming experience a desktop with a 24"+ single or multi-monitor rig can provide.
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And how many people game with that kind of hardware? I do, and I have tablets as well so I know the difference. But I also know that this is niche crowd. I find ironic for all of the years that Windows tablets have been niche that it could very well be that in a few years Windows tablets could be a much larger audience than PC gamers with dedicated GPUs.
 
heatlesssun said:
And how many people game with that kind of hardware? I do, and I have tablets as well so I know the difference. But I also know that this is niche crowd. I find ironic for all of the years that Windows tablets have been niche that it could very well be that in a few years Windows tablets could be a much larger audience than PC gamers with dedicated GPUs.
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Tablet people are a niche crowd too. Which is why there are a lot more desktop and laptop PCs than there are tablets. And don't give me the, "Oh superior Skirbbel with the inexpensive Compaq Presario that has a keyboard which I must by at additional cost, tablets new technology that people haven't bought a lot of yet," because we all know (and you like to frequently claim) that tablets have been around for 20 years and you've used and drooled on all of them.
 
heatlesssun said:
I just don't buy adding in a Metro off switch instantly makes Windows 8 loved by all. It goes in the face of history were people don't upgrade, especially businesses that never upgrade to the latest and greatest Windows and that a supermajority of new versions of Windows come with new hardware, and new hardware is a key part of Windows 8, much more so than prior versions of Windows. Holding on to the old UI doesn't help develop the touch and tablet aspects of Windows, those are FAR more important to the future growth of Windows than the desktop.
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No, at this point it is too late. They have a Vista problem again where perception and experience are sinking the ship. Never said people were going to adopt Win 8 enmasse for business, we both know that won't happen. However the reality is Metro ui is Absolutely responsible for generating a crapload of negative publicity for Win 8. Heck, Apple doesn't even need witty commercials to bash win 8 like vista, Metro is managing to do that by itself. Win 9 had damn well better come with a toggle if MS has any hope of not shedding casual consumer marketshare like crazy.

heatlesssun said:
And how many people game with that kind of hardware? I do, and I have tablets as well so I know the difference. But I also know that this is niche crowd. I find ironic for all of the years that Windows tablets have been niche that it could very well be that in a few years Windows tablets could be a much larger audience than PC gamers with dedicated GPUs.
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I was naming off things you mentioned that was one of the points. PC gaming has always been niche, but then so is console gaming. Handheld games are diversions and nothing more. Tablets cannot and will never offer the variety of input and output options that PCs and consoles do and as such will never be taken seriously as a gaming platform.
 
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