Mazda Claims There Is No Demand for Electric Vehicles

[Ducman69]

I think there is plenty of demand. They just need to come down in cost a little bit.

They are already heavily subsidized. They need to come down in cost a LOT. Imagine how pricey they are with no incentives for the manufacturers and consumers...

What is a mistake is to assume that fossil fuels are going to continue their recent trend forever. The current state is a very special case exception due to the Saudi's and OPEC intentionally flooding the market to try to break shale and other newer production.

Wrong, OPEC never increased supply, and in fact have decreased supply. Shale happened, and the United States has one of the largest shale reserves in the world second only to... yup, China.

China has the world's largest shale reserves, and for all practical purposes hasn't even TOUCHED it yet. If they did right now, world economies would shake, as oil would become insanely cheap and it would cause instability in the middle-east. But you can rest assured that China will tap that ass if oil prices climb, as its too lucrative not to.

This won't go on forever. Just you see. We will have $140+ per barrel oil again in no time.

Bullshit. You know why? Futures trading. If oil were going to be "$140+ in no time", people would be trading massively! I trust people with billions of dollars at stake more than I trust you, sorry. But hey, maybe I'm wrong, and you should put your money where your mouth is and buy $50K in futures and post back about how you're a multi-millionaire.

Also, it is silly to assume that the cost factor is the only reason people buy electric cars. They are also sleek, quiet, cars, with very low maintenance requirements due to having comparably few moving parts, and never underestimate the "feel good" effect of people being able to say they are green and focusing on their carbon foot print. It may not be a big deal to you, but lots of people out there really care about that shit, and the truth is, even if we were on 100% fossil fuel electricity generation, an electric car would still use less energy, due to the very high efficiencies in large power plants, vs the very low efficiencies in internal combustion engines.

Cost can't be the only factor, because its a downside. Electric cars have a LOT of downsides now, and yes the crowd that fart into empty wine glasses in order to enjoy their own brand with tremendous satisfaction can get off by environmental virtue-signaling, but they can do that with a plug-in hybrid too. And I think plugin-hybrids are great for many people, and make a lot of sense. Its just pure electrics I think are premature.

ICE cars don't work so well in high altitudes anyway.

Turbocharged cars work awesome at high altitudes, with virtually no change in performance. And, frankly, turbo cars are more popular today than ever before... heck, the fact that both the Mustang and Camaro are even turbocharged now should be evidence of that.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Wrong, OPEC never increased supply, and in fact have decreased supply.

You are right, my bad. OPEC did vote to reduce supply. It's just that Saudi Arabia has been ignoring OPEC and flooding the market on their own accord.

Bullshit. You know why? Futures trading. If oil were going to be "$140+ in no time", people would be trading massively! I trust people with billions of dollars at stake more than I trust you, sorry. But hey, maybe I'm wrong, and you should put your money where your mouth is and buy $50K in futures and post back about how you're a multi-millionaire.

I can't think of any time in recent history when the so called "rational market" got it wrong. Can you?

Turbocharged cars work awesome at high altitudes, with virtually no change in performance. And, frankly, turbo cars are more popular today than ever before... heck, the fact that both the Mustang and Camaro are even turbocharged now should be evidence of that.

This I agree with. Turbochargers and superchargers do wonders for ICE's at altitude. And even if they didn't, high altitude issues are a footnote at best, as a very small percentage of all vehicles are ever operated at high altitudes.[/QUOTE]

 

[jcollett69]

EV automobiles currently have their use cases but they are not for everyone in every locale. One must look to what driving they do and find the best fit for those needs. Assuming that everyone will want an ICE vehicle, EV, or other technology is just short sighted. It is actually a very exciting time to be a vehicle owner with the many choices available. For my use case of driving 35 miles each way to work in Southern California with a garage at home to park with a 220 volt charger installed, the Chevrolet Volt has worked out very well. I can even use our Chevrolet Spark EV when my wife is willing to switch vehicles. Now, if I was in a very cold climate, the battery's efficiency drops so it may not be so good there.

My next vehicle consideration is the Honda Clarity FCV, which uses a fuel cell hydrogen setup to power a smaller battery pack. Otherwise, it is the same as a battery electric vehicle (BEV). Again, my locale has the infrastructure of hydrogen stations to support the vehicle, and the 15000 in included hydrogen with the lease means that all the energy I would need for the life of the lease is covered. 366 mile range and less than 10 minutes to fill up from empty.

So, there is not a single tech that is better than all others; each have their advantages and disadvantages. Also, scaling a particular tech will present more challenges.

 

[Snowdog]

no i believe you.

i know that batteries are recyclable.

even lead acid batteries get recycled.

Lead Acid is easy to recycle, and it delivers a significant profit it doing it. So ~90% of LA batteries are recycled.

Lithium batteries are not so easy, and AFAIK, no one is making a profit it doing so, so almost no Lithium batteries are currently being recycled.

But I believe Tesla is planning to have recycling as an input into it's battery Gigafactory.

 

[Jovian]

Until they are ACTUALLY better for the environment than current gas cars and the range is increased on an affordable model to 300+ they are useless to me.

Battery recycling technology really needs to step up if we are going to have these batteries

 

[4saken]

waiting on hydrogen to reach critical mass. electric cars are an interim step. i'm holding out.

 

[ole-m]

waiting on hydrogen to reach critical mass. electric cars are an interim step. i'm holding out.

Nowhere on the roadmap is hydrogen an viable option. - Cost of making the fuel is very inefficient with no solution on the horizon.
Neither is battery at the moment, but battery is somewhat feasible for large cars (BMW 5 series to 7 series size). - Nowhere near the capability of range unless very expensive models - P80+ Tesla.
Mazda is right currently, it's not about money as electric cars is easier and cheaper to develop than a new petrol engine...
Cost of manufacture is hilariously high and cost of purchase for car buyers is high aswell, in countries where limited benefit is given (Denmark, Germany, United Kingdom) we see very very few electric cars, while countries which give 150000$ + tax rebate on a tesla (Norway) they sell really well

 

[Snowdog]

waiting on hydrogen to reach critical mass. electric cars are an interim step. i'm holding out.

That is convenient if you want to do nothing, because Hydrogen is just a silly option for personal transportation, from just about any perspective.

It's horrible to store and transport. Inefficient to produce, would need a trillion dollar infrastructure, and most importantly: Ridiculously expensive.

I remember once calculating the average fueling costs for (gas was higher then)
EVs: 4 cents/mile
Hybrids: 6 cents/mile
Regular Gas: 8 cents/mile
Hydrogen: 16 cents/mile

Right now Toyota, gives Free Hydrogen to handful of Mirai buyers, likely to insulate them on the sticker shock of filling up.

EV's are at least cheap to fuel and electricity is everywhere.

 

[Ducman69]

waiting on hydrogen to reach critical mass. electric cars are an interim step. i'm holding out.

Pretty sure the world has given up on hydrogen. Its too "chicken and egg"ish. Hydrogen works if everyone switches to a hydrogen economy. There has to be a very strong need to make that huge of an investment, and frankly it has to kind of be an overnight thing as its otherwise not economical to have both a hydrogen and fossil based economy coexisting. Rapid change can cause all kinds of instability in the market, and really kick economies in the pants.

After all, people often focus on cars, like that's all that matters. They forget that passenger cars are only a tiny piece of the pie. All those cranes, mining equipment, bulldozers, tractors, massive cargo ships, armed forces, etc. all use craptons of energy and can't be replaced overnight.

That's what I like about hybrids.

You can gradually transition society little by little, as batteries improve you have bigger and bigger batteries and smaller and smaller fuel tanks and generators. This can be applied to everything from mom's minivan to hybrid-diesel trains to even tanks.

But even then, think about everything that you use that is a byproduct/side-product of fossil fuel processing, like rope, water hoses, shoes, paint, toothpaste, plastics, parachutes, detergents, aspirin, artificial sweetener, tires, lubricants, clothing, refrigerant, ink, and on and on.

I mean, can you even imagine living in a world without plastic?

 

[nutzo]

Mazda is dead on. Middle income America has no desire for these expensive toys. I get 40+mpg in my Hyundia on the highway and a range of close to 400 miles a fill up. Cost about 80 bucks in fuel for our vacation. No electricity needed from those evil power plants (how some people view them), thank you very much.

+1

For most people, electric cars are not practical nor will they save money. The short driving range and long recharge times means many people need to have access to another car.
I have yet to see an electric car that even comes with a spare tire, due to the extra weight and the lack of space due to the huge battery pack.

I'll stick with my hybrid. 45 MPG on the highway (if I keep the speed under 70 MPH), and high 30's around town.
With the high cost of electricity here in Southern California, (25 cent/kwh) gas for my hybrid is about the same.
And before someone point out that the electric company has "special" pricing plans for charging at night, none of them work for me.
They would all result in even higher electric costs due to the even higher daytime charges since I have family at home during the day.

 

[Deleted member 184142]

They are already heavily subsidized. They need to come down in cost a LOT. Imagine how pricey they are with no incentives for the manufacturers and consumers...

Wrong, OPEC never increased supply, and in fact have decreased supply. Shale happened, and the United States has one of the largest shale reserves in the world second only to... yup, China.

China has the world's largest shale reserves, and for all practical purposes hasn't even TOUCHED it yet. If they did right now, world economies would shake, as oil would become insanely cheap and it would cause instability in the middle-east. But you can rest assured that China will tap that ass if oil prices climb, as its too lucrative not to.

Bullshit. You know why? Futures trading. If oil were going to be "$140+ in no time", people would be trading massively! I trust people with billions of dollars at stake more than I trust you, sorry. But hey, maybe I'm wrong, and you should put your money where your mouth is and buy $50K in futures and post back about how you're a multi-millionaire.

Cost can't be the only factor, because its a downside. Electric cars have a LOT of downsides now, and yes the crowd that fart into empty wine glasses in order to enjoy their own brand with tremendous satisfaction can get off by environmental virtue-signaling, but they can do that with a plug-in hybrid too. And I think plugin-hybrids are great for many people, and make a lot of sense. Its just pure electrics I think are premature.

Turbocharged cars work awesome at high altitudes, with virtually no change in performance. And, frankly, turbo cars are more popular today than ever before... heck, the fact that both the Mustang and Camaro are even turbocharged now should be evidence of that.

Lots of research has been done, but it is hard to track all the tax dollars going into EVs, but including tax rebates, its close to 20k a car by some estimates. ROI from even where locations have VERY cheap electricity would take longer than the cars normal life at those prices.

Another note about Turbos, everyone is doing it, now econoboxes are being turbo because they get much better MPG with it, as they can drop engine displacement and have a rise in VE. It is common now to see the car model with the SMALLER motor be more expensive, have more power AND get better mileage, lot of that being thanks to new (and cheaper) turbo tech.

 

[Ducman69]

It is common now to see the car model with the SMALLER motor be more expensive, have more power AND get better mileage, lot of that being thanks to new (and cheaper) turbo tech.

Noticed that on the Mustang too. Base V6, then turbo 4, then V8. This year, Ford just said screw it, and got rid of the unpopular V6 entirely.

Plus, turbos are just cool IMO! Easy to bump the boost with a ECU tune out of warranty, and even before that I like the hiiisssss PACHEW burble-burble hiiissssss PACHEW burble.

 

[nutzo]

I remember once calculating the average fueling costs for (gas was higher then)
EVs: 4 cents/mile
Hybrids: 6 cents/mile
Regular Gas: 8 cents/mile
Hydrogen: 16 cents/mile

Right now Toyota, gives Free Hydrogen to handful of Mirai buyers, likely to insulate them on the sticker shock of filling up.

EV's are at least cheap to fuel and electricity is everywhere.

Totally worthless numbers unless you include the gas and electrical prices you used to calculate this, and base it on similar sized cars.

At my electrical price of 25 cent/kwh, there isn't much difference in driving costs between a Hybrid and an EV

 

[cjcox]

Mazda's saving throw is their onboard vehicle computer system which is packed with 640K of main memory.

 

[AK0tA]

I live in West Virginia and since we provide the coal that powers a good part of our country I want a coal powered car.

 

[Snowdog]

Totally worthless numbers unless you include the gas and electrical prices you used to calculate this, and base it on similar sized cars.

At my electrical price of 25 cent/kwh, there isn't much difference in driving costs between a Hybrid and an EV

At the time I used the US average costs for electricity and Gas as per the EPA page. These of course fluctuate based on where you live and day to day.

 

[Nanogrip]

Maybe in the distant future, but for now, I'm happy with my 21 year old fire spitting, rubber burning, turbocharged Nissan Skyline. Anything more advanced than variable intake vehicles gets kaput in a few months here on this island. Drive a 2005 or newer German car here and there is no way to service it without tripping all sorts of error codes. If all over the world, people are switching to electric vehicles, then I don't mind, as long as third world countries and people like me living in them still access to reliable combustion engine vehicles, sanction free or with few restrictions.

 

[Ducman69]

I live in West Virginia and since we provide the coal that powers a good part of our country I want a coal powered car.

You know GM actually made a coal powered turbine El Dorado.

It literally fed powdered coal on a conveyor belt to the gasifier to run a turbine engine, and apparently it actually made a crapton of power for the day, but the throttle response was craptastic as the conveyor speed adjustment in delivering the fuel was super laggy, emissions were crappy, and it sounded like a jet engine, heh.

 

[chenw]

Catch 22.

Without significant amount of electric cars on the road, there would not be too many electric car charging stations around, especially for a country as big as US where driving one town to the next could, in theory, be longer than some countries drive from one end to the other.

But without the convenience of plentiful charging stations, electric cars would not gain significant traction, because of the inconvenience of having to find a charging station impromptu when you realise you are nearly out, much less of an issue for ICE cars due to the amount of Gas stations already around. And also charging a car would take longer than filling up a car tank.

I drive a hybrid for this reason, convenience of it running on petrol, but also the fuel saving feature of automatic engine shutoff when you are waiting for red light or something.

I will definitely welcome widespread adoption of electric cars, but charging stations needs to be universal. I don't imagine people would like to see their VW electric car running out of juice, only to find their next nearest charging station is for Lexus cars only. I certainly wouldn't.

 

[Dead Parrot]

When an electric car can be driven 300+ miles with the climate control system full on, carry 4 people + gear, be recharged faster then everyone takes to use the bathroom and snack shops, and cost the same as today's crossover SUVs without massive tax credits, then car makers will sell as many as they can make. Until then, they are a commuter vehicle and toy.

 

[chenw]

When an electric car can be driven 300+ miles with the climate control system full on, carry 4 people + gear, be recharged faster then everyone takes to use the bathroom and snack shops, and cost the same as today's crossover SUVs without massive tax credits, then car makers will sell as many as they can make. Until then, they are a commuter vehicle and toy.

You forgot "and charging stations as frequent as gas stations".

it'd be silly to drive 300 miles only to find that there are no charging stations within 10 mile radius and you only have enough battery for 6 miles...

 

[Semantics]

You forgot about the manufacturing and disposing of really dirty toxic nasty batteries...

As opposed to what oil spills, coal mining? We recycle used oil, companies like tesla recycle their own batteries. They're both dirty and unwanted step but necessary.

You know GM actually made a coal powered turbine El Dorado.

It literally fed powdered coal on a conveyor belt to the gasifier to run a turbine engine, and apparently it actually made a crapton of power for the day, but the throttle response was craptastic as the conveyor speed adjustment in delivering the fuel was super laggy, emissions were crappy, and it sounded like a jet engine, heh.

I prefer the turbine car chrysler made, smooth as hell and quiet but ate w.e you put in it well like a jet engine.

 

[Croak]

You forgot "and charging stations as frequent as gas stations".

it'd be silly to drive 300 miles only to find that there are no charging stations within 10 mile radius and you only have enough battery for 6 miles...

Solution:

 

[Ducman69]

I drive a hybrid for this reason, convenience of it running on petrol, but also the fuel saving feature of automatic engine shutoff when you are waiting for red light or something.

Technically, you don't need a hybrid for that. Stop-start technology works fine on pure gas cars. I don't like it, but they have it.

 

[HeavensCloud]

I have zero interest in an EV. That's besides the fact that I would have to spend $5K for an entire electrical redo on my 100+ year old house to even charge it.

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

With the current costs? Sure. A Tesla has one of the shittiest interiors I've seen for a car costing $100k and it isn't even comfortable.

 

[velusip]

... Energy has to be made somewhere somehow. Can our grid adapt to everyone converting over to E vehicles? ...

That's the point. Tesla is in the power industry. Back when businesses were electrifying railways and selling convenience in the form of electric appliances for the home, the same market was fabricating power generation infrastructure. Telsa is pretty much a clone copy in modern times. However, the marketing of 1890-1950s electricity consuming products isn't necessarily a haute couture and female empowerment campaign, but rather comes with a fashionably green vibe and "power to the people" message.

The weird bit is how little competition they have. Musk has publicly mocked competitors in hopes that they step up and force prices down on cars. And no one else is taking a stab at solar farms and grid battery production.

 

[Wrecked Em]

Fake news. Batteries are extremely recyclable and have very low environmental impact.

There was a fake news story years ago that apparently got lots of traction, showing a "moon like" landscape near a cadmium mine and using it to sell everyone on how bad batteries were, but it was really a hit job by people opposing electric and hybrid cars with no journalistic standards what so ever.

Lithium ion batteries are expensive as fuck to recycle. The only reason you can drop off a depleted cell phone or cordless tool pack, is because the manufacturers are required by law to provide recycling services for them. Larger industrial cells are different. You either ditch them illegally or pay someone a hefty fee to recycle them.

 

[EODetroit]

For me, the nissan leaf does not have enough range and the volt is overly complex. I want a straight electric car -- no generators, no gas, injectors, fuel pumps, o2 sensors, maf sensors, etc etc. The model 3 is exciting, but im not going to drop 35k on a car. Id rather get a 16 volt for about half that.

I waited in line for my reservation spot for the Model 3, around 30th or so. So I should be able to get the full $7500 tax rebate, making my Model 3 only 27500, in effect. Assuming they stick to the price and the base model is good enough, of course.

If the Model 3 is significantly delayed, my backup plan (for now) is a used Leaf. They're cheap enough that I won't care too much and it has enough range for getting to work and stuff.

The real selling point for any Tesla is the supercharger network. I can go cross-country in one. No competitor's vehicle can do that on electricity. And no competitor has even started building their own superchargers. Those luxury brands trying to come up with "Tesla Killers" are all a joke, because they can't charge fast and they haven't spent anything on charging infrastructure like Tesla has.

 

[EODetroit]

Lithium ion batteries are expensive as fuck to recycle. The only reason you can drop off a depleted cell phone or cordless tool pack, is because the manufacturers are required by law to provide recycling services for them. Larger industrial cells are different. You either ditch them illegally or pay someone a hefty fee to recycle them.

Large industrial lithium ion cells are merely hundreds or thousands of little cells strung together in parallel and series:
http://insideevs.com/tour-teslas-gigafactory-live-video-stream

That said you're right about recycling of lithium not being profitable:
http://www.indmin.com/Article/3648970/Lithium-recycling-still-too-expensive.html and
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/battery_recycling_as_a_business

A few of things here though.

A) The Lithium in Li Ion batteries is cheap, the Cobalt is the expensive stuff, and its easier to recycle. So the cost of recycling Li Ion batteries isn't as bad as the cost of recycling just the Lithium portion, like you were probably told.

B) Tesla for example "recycles" by re-using. They take "spent" battery packs, determine which cells are still good, and make Tesla power products from them. The three "Rs" are Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, in order of preference. Reusing comes before Recycling and Tesla does it for its batteries, which means their cost of "recycling" (as a generic term) is less than you'd otherwise calculate.

C) Industrial scale battery packs are temperature controlled and therefore have a lifespan on the order of 10 years (that we know of so far, maybe even longer). Not like your cell phone batteries that are dead in a year or two. This is the first "R", Reduce. If you don't over or undercharge a Li Ion, if you don't subject it to temperatures outside of its ideal range, it'll last many times as long as an abused battery. So this reduces by five times or more the cost of "recycling" Li Ions versus the common expectation that they'll only last 2 years, just like in your smart phone.

So no, you don't dump Li Ions in a ditch somewhere when they're done, not even (and especially not) on an industrial scale. And between the cost being absorbed over 10 years or more, and a large portion able to be reused, "recycling" won't be very expensive either.

 

[Jon855]

I think they're correct mostly only on the basis that our infrastructure and connections at home are all not as accessible thus a lower demand is perceived.

Their tune will change once it becomes a much more viable and commonplace. It's just a matter of investing their money based on the expected ROI in the next few years and with all of the automous trend coming along... Regulations and etc will become more standardized and I reckon that's when they'll jump onboard.

 

[Flapjack]

Hydro/Nuclear/Solar/Wind

Not everywhere uses coal / gas

Lol. Have you even bothered to see how these are doing financially? I'll give you a hint.... not good.

 

[TordanGow]

Until they are ACTUALLY better for the environment than current gas cars and the range is increased on an affordable model to 300+ they are useless to me.

Battery recycling technology really needs to step up if we are going to have these batteries

Pretty much this. Give me a family size vehicle that drives 400 miles on a 5 minute recharge, works well in 10F temps without reduced distance, and costs 25K brand new. If you can't do that I'm not interested.

 

[HeavensCloud]

Lol. Have you even bothered to see how these are doing financially? I'll give you a hint.... not good.

Nuclear makes insane bank, the problem is continuous string of new regulations and upkeep of older plants. The Fukushima disaster hit the plants up here in NY even thanks to safety regulations added and public scrutiny of nuclear plants. Thankfully Exelon took over Fitzpatrick up here or they would have been shut down.

 

[Flapjack]

waiting on hydrogen to reach critical mass. electric cars are an interim step. i'm holding out.

Hydrogen is only being explored with regards to pussy ass "fuel cells", which is about the slowest, most nonsense solution to getting away from fossil fuels.

Burning hydrogen is what we need to do, but people don't realize that our government is chock full of stupid-ass liberals who are using the notion of "green energy" to get rich, and could care less about a solution that makes sense economically (sorry.... but pure electric vehicles do NOT, and likely will not for a very long time... if ever).

Of course, burning hydrogen requires solutions to the same infrastructure issues that fuel cells would have (infrastructure, transport, etc), but has much, much more potential. Current ICE engines can be converted to burn hydrogen, which can be made to run leaner (more power, less volume of fuel) than current hydrocarbon ICEs.

This is a good read on the pros to burning hydrogen. You won't hear much on it though, as the politicians in this country have too much invested in the EV market to even want to consider it. As long as politicians are as powerful as we allow them to be, we will never get the *best* solution.... but instead the one that nets them the most profit.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/09/the_arguments_f.html

 

[nutzo]

Technically, you don't need a hybrid for that. Stop-start technology works fine on pure gas cars. I don't like it, but they have it.

I doubt anyone would actually like the Stop-start technology on a pure gas car, especially in the summer.
Nothing like having your air shut off at a long stop light when it's 98 outside.

Works much better in my Camry Hybrid since everything is electrical. This also means there are no belts to wear out.
When the engine shuts off the Air conditioner runs off the High-Voltage battery.

Works great when you are sitting in a hot parking lot waiting for someone. If the battery gets low, the engine comes on for a few minutes and recharges the battery, then shuts off for several minutes.
The air continues to run the entire time. Being a Hybrid, it also allows me to drive around the parking lot on battery, unlike a pure gas car.

 

[nutzo]

Pretty much this. Give me a family size vehicle that drives 400 miles on a 5 minute recharge, works well in 10F temps without reduced distance, and costs 25K brand new. If you can't do that I'm not interested.

My Camry Hybrid gets over 600 miles to a tank, even at 75+ MPH. (has a 17 gallon tank*40 mpg=680 miles)
If I keep my speed under 70 MPH, I can easily boost that to 750 miles.

Really love the long range, we've taken short vacation trips 300 miles away, and I still had enough gas left to drive to work for a few days when I got back.

Plus, no belts to wear/break, and the brake pads should last well over 100,000 miles, since most the braking is done by the electric motors to recharge the batteries.

 

[nutzo]

The real selling point for any Tesla is the supercharger network. I can go cross-country in one. No competitor's vehicle can do that on electricity. And no competitor has even started building their own superchargers.

Yes, you can drive cross country using the supercharger network, but why would you want to plan your vacation around where you can find a supercharger?
And why would you want to wait for the battery to charge (the 30 minute charge is only a half charge, which would not be enough to get you to the next charger in some cases.

I'll stick to the 5 minute fill up.
Even if we take the wife's minivan that has less than a 400 mile range, we can usually drive most the day and only waste 5 minute getting gas in the morning.

 

[Frobozz]

So, I haven't been paying attention to electric other than noticing the increasing number of vehicles on the road...

Is there a standard for the recharging apparatus yet? Or does each company have its own plug?

 

[alxnet7227]

Lithium ion batteries are expensive as fuck to recycle. The only reason you can drop off a depleted cell phone or cordless tool pack, is because the manufacturers are required by law to provide recycling services for them. Larger industrial cells are different. You either ditch them illegally or pay someone a hefty fee to recycle them.

I think the current speculation is that Tesla uses a very large number of 18650 li-ion batteries (we're talking thousands of cells strung together) for their battery packs.

BTW, 18650 li-ion battery cells are fantastic. Just the right size for a compact flashlight or very portable emergency cell phone charger.