Mass Effect DLC Character "IS" On The Disc

Ripperjack

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
299
Seriously, Day 1 DLC for $10 is like a $10 tax on stupid people.

Indeed, stupid or the impatient. ;)

I've been burned soooo many times, rushing out to buy games on day 1, only to be greeted with a pile of digital bovine residue. This DLC bull is just another way to be disappointed, if anything this additional $10 price gouge is encouraging me to wait until the game is re-relased in the GOTY edition, typically with all DLC included at half the price.

So for me, this is the last straw. The pain at the cash register is starting to far out weight my enthusiasm to purchase on day 1, and with the many scars of bad games past that I'm bearing... I think I'm just going to wait and get it cheaper later. If anything... thank god for Gamefly!
 

DeathPrincess

Fully [H]
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
18,205
Damned Microsoft!!!

All the features of windows 7 ultimate are on the home premium disk, and they made those at the same time. But then chose to slice them off the base edition so they could chrge you $100 or something via "anytime upgrade" DLC! :mad:
 

LhasaCM

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
1,070
Damned Microsoft!!!

All the features of windows 7 ultimate are on the home premium disk, and they made those at the same time. But then chose to slice them off the base edition so they could chrge you $100 or something via "anytime upgrade" DLC! :mad:

A business tries to maximize profit. Part of that is to get folks to pay as much as they can bear, keeping in mind that rational folks won't pay more than it's worth to them. With software especially (high fixed cost, low marginal cost), you do that through price discrimination. Since outright price discrimination is frowned upon (beyond the different prices charged to businesses and students for software), you do that through minor product differentiation. Someone who wants the features in Ultimate probably has a higher willingness to pay, so that allows folks to not feel bad about paying more.

Some folks are willing to pay more to play it sooner - the market caters to them. Others are willing to wait and pay less - the market also caters to them.
 

roaf85

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
2,766
How can anyone say gaming is worse than it was in the 90s?

Super NES games were 70 bucks in the 90s and you can put about 700 of them on a SD card now. Some/many didn't have multiplayer.

Hell even the N64 games that sold for upwards of 74.99 how long would you play those games? I like to take StarFox as an example. Could beat the game in about 4 hours and the multiplayer only had one mode.
 

stiltner

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 16, 2000
Messages
10,669
How can anyone say gaming is worse than it was in the 90s?

Super NES games were 70 bucks in the 90s and you can put about 700 of them on a SD card now. Some/many didn't have multiplayer.

Hell even the N64 games that sold for upwards of 74.99 how long would you play those games? I like to take StarFox as an example. Could beat the game in about 4 hours and the multiplayer only had one mode.

I don't recall these $70 games in the 90's.

I do recall $40 games in the 90's and a shift to $50 games.

Can you provide examples of this?
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
2,997
How can anyone say gaming is worse than it was in the 90s?

Super NES games were 70 bucks in the 90s and you can put about 700 of them on a SD card now. Some/many didn't have multiplayer.

Hell even the N64 games that sold for upwards of 74.99 how long would you play those games? I like to take StarFox as an example. Could beat the game in about 4 hours and the multiplayer only had one mode.

lol I can't really remember and I was born in 1980 and had a Sega Genesis instead...but is that true? 74.99 for a game? :eek:
 

TheBluePill

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
3,773
lol I can't really remember and I was born in 1980 and had a Sega Genesis instead...but is that true? 74.99 for a game? :eek:

There may have been a few obscure or gouged titles over $50 for the main consoles. The only Machine i remember having games in the $70 range was the Neo Geo.

I seem to recall most were $29-$49.
 

roaf85

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
2,766
There may have been a few obscure or gouged titles over $50 for the main consoles. The only Machine i remember having games in the $70 range was the Neo Geo.

I seem to recall most were $29-$49.

No. From the N64 wiki page:

The cost of producing an N64 cartridge was far higher than producing a CD.[63] Publishers had to pass these higher expenses to the consumer and as a result, N64 games tended to sell for higher prices than PlayStation games.[60] While most PlayStation games rarely exceeded US$50,[61] N64 games could reach US$79.99,[61] such as the first pressing of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.[64] Games in Sony′s line of PlayStation Greatest Hits budget line retailed for US$19.95, while Nintendo′s equivalent Player's Choice line retailed for US$29.95. In the United Kingdom, N64 games were priced £54.95 at their time of release, while PlayStation games were priced at £44.95. In the United States games were priced around $49.99 at the time of their release.

I paid 74.99 for StarFox with the Rumble Pak.

Back in the day you were paying for accessories left and right.

Rumble Pak for all 4 controllers? Check....
Memory cards? Check....

Alas there was games back in the day exceeded 49.99.

But look at it this way.

1990 is about 20 years ago. So if you look at inflation since inflation has been mapped you come out to around 3.1 percent per year. And this is accounting for years of gas deflation/inflation.

But look at movie tickets. I think in the early 90s I paid about 5.50 to 6 bucks for a movie and now it is around 9 to 11 bucks for a movie sans 3D. So that being said movie ticket prices in about 20 years have followed inflation.

So has things like Pop which was around 1.75-2 bucks a 12 pack and now is around 4 dollars a 12 pack.

What is my point?

If games have increased only 10 dollars in certain cases over 20 years that is an increase that pales in comparison to inflation. Games should probably be more expensive.
 

LordCalin

Gawd
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
901
The day I started college I bought an N64 for dorm room entertainment, It cost me $200 with 1 controller, and no games ... the games cost me $40 each with a sale of buy 2 for that price, regular price $50.
 

roaf85

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
2,766

fdiaz78

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
2,123
I don't recall these $70 games in the 90's.

I do recall $40 games in the 90's and a shift to $50 games.

Can you provide examples of this?

I don't have a link but I clearly remember Super Mario Bro's 3 selling for 80+ due to demand. I remember telling my mom that I would love that game but 80 dollars was to much. She agreed but bought it for christmas anyway :)
 

fdiaz78

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
2,123
$10 for this DLC is ripoff. I actually was thinking of doing it but no way i'm paying that amount for something that should be in game or 5 bucks max.

Wait a few months. BTW this whole using BIOWARE points is such a scam. Just charge the money and be done with it. I hate buying "virtual currency" to purchase a product.
 

roaf85

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
2,766
I don't have a link but I clearly remember Super Mario Bro's 3 selling for 80+ due to demand. I remember telling my mom that I would love that game but 80 dollars was to much. She agreed but bought it for christmas anyway :)

I paid 59.99 or at least my parents die for Burning Rangers and Panzer Dragoon Saga was 74.99 from chipsandbits and I was ecstatic I paid that much for those games since they sold for much more years later.

I never got into RPGs during the SNES days, but I know N64 games were more than 49.99.
 

Q-BZ

Fully [H]
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
19,438
I don't have a link but I clearly remember Super Mario Bro's 3 selling for 80+ due to demand. I remember telling my mom that I would love that game but 80 dollars was to much. She agreed but bought it for christmas anyway :)


I well remember those cartridge games on SNES and especially N64 easily breaking $60-$70 back then when money was actually worth half a damn vs now. (Inflation)

Earthbound. Wayne Gretsky Hockey. Chrono Trigger when it first came out. Damn, those were expensive games.


Now to that end, I certainly am not defending how DLC has been handled by the industry. Expansions packs and how those were done are what I'm all about.
 

Tytalus

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Messages
4,257
I don't recall these $70 games in the 90's.

I do recall $40 games in the 90's and a shift to $50 games.

Can you provide examples of this?

http://www.salzmafia.com/uploaded_images/GamePro_Issue006_February_1990-092-791162.jpg

You'll note the newest games were all $59.99+, with several being in the $60's, depending on platform.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...ruth-game-prices-have-come-down-with-time.ars

A price list showing the original games, plus the prices adjusted for inflation in 2010 dollars.
 

roaf85

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
2,766
http://www.salzmafia.com/uploaded_images/GamePro_Issue006_February_1990-092-791162.jpg

You'll note the newest games were all $59.99+, with several being in the $60's, depending on platform.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...ruth-game-prices-have-come-down-with-time.ars

A price list showing the original games, plus the prices adjusted for inflation in 2010 dollars.


Thank you for posting the ARSTechnica link.

In my opinion Day 1 DLC is a chance to test to see if games can really sell at the 69.99 dollar mark.

For high profile games they will. They are quite a few people out there who got the day 1 DLC because they are mass effect fans.

Whether or not it was suppose to be part of the main game or not we will never ever know.

Publishers will never admit this. Outside of maybe the Fallout packs or Sivering Isles can anyone list DLC that was worth paying for?
 

roaf85

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
2,766
I am so glad I don't by ea games any more:) so glad

As opposed to buying UBISOFT (Full priced Assassins Creed Xpacs) or Capcom (all day one DLC with Gold and Ultimate editions months later.)
 

MavericK

Zero Cool
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
31,238
Also, I see a lot of people using console games and, more specifically, limited-run "rare" console games as a justification for current prices. Keep in mind that the PC version is no less expensive than the consoles in this case.
 

vortican

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
146
1990 is about 20 years ago. So if you look at inflation since inflation has been mapped you come out to around 3.1 percent per year. And this is accounting for years of gas deflation/inflation.

But look at movie tickets. I think in the early 90s I paid about 5.50 to 6 bucks for a movie and now it is around 9 to 11 bucks for a movie sans 3D. So that being said movie ticket prices in about 20 years have followed inflation.

So has things like Pop which was around 1.75-2 bucks a 12 pack and now is around 4 dollars a 12 pack.

What is my point?

If games have increased only 10 dollars in certain cases over 20 years that is an increase that pales in comparison to inflation. Games should probably be more expensive.

And that's if you use government fake math. Even gas prices should be much higher thanks to inflation (when it's measured properly).

We really don't understand how good we have it in terms of nominal prices, and how badly we're getting boned in real terms.
 

PreOmegaZero

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
4,013
Thank you for posting the ARSTechnica link.

In my opinion Day 1 DLC is a chance to test to see if games can really sell at the 69.99 dollar mark.

Yes. Except the $70 is not yet mandatory. If 50% of the people who bought ME3 @ $60 buy the DLC, that is technically a $70 game for 50% of the customer base who OPTED IN, as opposed to $70 for 100% of the customer base who may not have even cared for the additional content.

Publishers will never admit this. Outside of maybe the Fallout packs or Sivering Isles can anyone list DLC that was worth paying for?

Lair of the Shadow Broker, Overlord from ME2.

The main 'problem' (from a consumer standpoint) is that DLC hardly ever sees a price drop, while the games typically do.

Do some math, wait it out, and if you really "NEED" the game + DLC, budget it correctly
 

LeninGHOLA

Vladimir Hayt
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
18,416
Also, I see a lot of people using console games and, more specifically, limited-run "rare" console games as a justification for current prices. Keep in mind that the PC version is no less expensive than the consoles in this case.

I remember paying $30-40 for brand new PC games in the 90s. I don't give a shit what consoles games used to cost. Part of that cost was a cartridge.
 

Outamyhead

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
4,259
There may have been a few obscure or gouged titles over $50 for the main consoles. The only Machine i remember having games in the $70 range was the Neo Geo.

I seem to recall most were $29-$49.

Ahh those were the days, where console games were 30-40 pounds, and PC games were always 30 pounds regardless of who made it. Just the other day I pulled out a few games from 2002-2005, and they still had the price label on them of 35 quid.
 

roaf85

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
2,766
I remember paying $30-40 for brand new PC games in the 90s. I don't give a shit what consoles games used to cost. Part of that cost was a cartridge.

What are most PC games though now a days? Digital distribution? Sure you can buy em in the stores, but I would think most PC gamers just download them.

Also back in the 90s you could trade pc games just by uninstalling and giving someone a code. Now PC games have pretty much no resale value because a code is tied to a user account vs the game.
 

roaf85

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
2,766
Yes. Except the $70 is not yet mandatory. If 50% of the people who bought ME3 @ $60 buy the DLC, that is technically a $70 game for 50% of the customer base who OPTED IN, as opposed to $70 for 100% of the customer base who may not have even cared for the additional content.



Lair of the Shadow Broker, Overlord from ME2.

The main 'problem' (from a consumer standpoint) is that DLC hardly ever sees a price drop, while the games typically do.

Do some math, wait it out, and if you really "NEED" the game + DLC, budget it correctly

ME3 shipped out 3.5 million in the first week. I am sure people would pay 70 bucks for ME3. Plenty of people probably did.

Back in the day due to supply/demand some people paid higher prices for AAA titles.

However it is ironic you mention ME2 DLC. DLC doesn't see a price drop because there is essential no used DLC.
 

LeninGHOLA

Vladimir Hayt
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
18,416
What are most PC games though now a days? Digital distribution? Sure you can buy em in the stores, but I would think most PC gamers just download them.

Also back in the 90s you could trade pc games just by uninstalling and giving someone a code. Now PC games have pretty much no resale value because a code is tied to a user account vs the game.

Right, so they shouldn't be $70.
 

TheOneKnownAsMe

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
1,730
You know, given the amount of man-hours and hard work that go into making a game, as well as inflation and whatnot, games really are surprisingly cheap. In fact, they've gotten quite a bit cheaper. Back in the day, a AAA game could cost you $80+ on one of the consoles. $80 back then was worth a lot more than $80 now, and rather than seeing games adjust for inflation and increase in price in accordance, we've seen them drop and stabilize around the $60 mark.

How much work was spent on designing the From Ashes DLC? Easily dozens of hours. How much work was done modeling the character in the DLC? Easily dozens of hours. How much time and money was spent on getting the voice work done for the DLC character? How much work was done in programming/scripting that entire mission (given the fact that it's UE3, they probably just use a combination of kismet and matinee for most of the missions/dialogue, which has the potential to make things easier, is still no small task)? All told, the cost of developing this single piece of DLC could have easily breached $100,000+. And we get all of that, for a one-time fee of $10.

I'm not condoning EA's practices here, I'm just giving a bit of perspective.
 

roaf85

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
2,766
Right, so they shouldn't be $70.

If games over the counter are 70 digital games will be 70. Thats how it works. You have to keep retailers like Walmart/Gamestop happy.

At this point with no manuals, less plastics, econmonies of scale on cd pressing the distribution costs account for only 10 percent.
 

roaf85

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
2,766
You know, given the amount of man-hours and hard work that go into making a game, as well as inflation and whatnot, games really are surprisingly cheap. In fact, they've gotten quite a bit cheaper. Back in the day, a AAA game could cost you $80+ on one of the consoles. $80 back then was worth a lot more than $80 now, and rather than seeing games adjust for inflation and increase in price in accordance, we've seen them drop and stabilize around the $60 mark.

How much work was spent on designing the From Ashes DLC? Easily dozens of hours. How much work was done modeling the character in the DLC? Easily dozens of hours. How much time and money was spent on getting the voice work done for the DLC character? How much work was done in programming/scripting that entire mission (given the fact that it's UE3, they probably just use a combination of kismet and matinee for most of the missions/dialogue, which has the potential to make things easier, is still no small task)? All told, the cost of developing this single piece of DLC could have easily breached $100,000+. And we get all of that, for a one-time fee of $10.

I'm not condoning EA's practices here, I'm just giving a bit of perspective.

Well people who are pissed about this are probably people who hate DLC so day one DLC just gives them a little bit more fire.

But the issue at hand isn't what man hours it took to create the DLC it is should the DLC have been or was it part of the main game and just cherry picked out because it wasn't integral to the main story and could have been sold.
 

LeninGHOLA

Vladimir Hayt
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
18,416
If games over the counter are 70 digital games will be 70. Thats how it works. You have to keep retailers like Walmart/Gamestop happy.

At this point with no manuals, less plastics, econmonies of scale on cd pressing the distribution costs account for only 10 percent.

I'm not too concerned with DD being the same cost as retail. Usually, if I'm on the fence, by the time I get around to buying a game Steam has it for 50% off. I was just stating that, historically, PC games have never been as expensive as old cartridge based console games.
 

roaf85

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
2,766
I'm not too concerned with DD being the same cost as retail. Usually, if I'm on the fence, by the time I get around to buying a game Steam has it for 50% off. I was just stating that, historically, PC games have never been as expensive as old cartridge based console games.

You aren't looking at it from both sides. PC games have no residuals and some console games have lower residuals due to the fact that there are online passes that have to be factored into the cost of buying used, but alas I have beaten this topic here with a stick.

Let me just say that out of the 10 games I bought last year for the console my total lost was about 10 dollars per game depending on how long I kept it.

Or I owned about 10 games and beat last year for around a 100-120 loss.

Can't say the same for PC.
 

MavericK

Zero Cool
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
31,238
You aren't looking at it from both sides. PC games have no residuals and some console games have lower residuals due to the fact that there are online passes that have to be factored into the cost of buying used, but alas I have beaten this topic here with a stick.

Let me just say that out of the 10 games I bought last year for the console my total lost was about 10 dollars per game depending on how long I kept it.

Or I owned about 10 games and beat last year for around a 100-120 loss.

Can't say the same for PC.

I'm reading your posts and I still don't understand what point you are trying to make.

It sounds like you are trying to justify $70 PC game prices by saying that PC games have no resale value...? :confused:
 

roaf85

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
2,766
I'm reading your posts and I still don't understand what point you are trying to make.

It sounds like you are trying to justify $70 PC game prices by saying that PC games have no resale value...? :confused:

No I was saying that even though historically PC games might not have been 60 dollars in the last 3-5 years PC games have almost no resale value. Therefore on consoles most games do have a resale value.

Steam sales almost go hand and hand with competition as well. Sure you see a steam sale with 50 percent off 2 months after a game has been out but some retailers price new games at 20 dollars off.

Its all a crap shoot, but if I spent 60 bucks on a PC game and bought 10 which would equal 600 dollars. Lets just say you got half of those at close to 50 percent off which would now mean you spent 300 dollars.

My cost of owning and reselling 10 ($60) dollar titles last year was still lower than if I just bought the games on PC.

Basically not everyone buys and holds games. Plus you can't rent PC games. Hell I probably would have just ended up buying Assassins Creed last year and been pissed if I had to play it on PC due to the fact that I couldn't redbox it.
 

mope54

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
7,443
I'm not really sure what point you're making either roaf but from your posts it sounds like you're a good ten years younger than those of us who actually played and bought nintendo games in the 90's while we were in high school..

you can't base your argument about snes games pricing on your memory of N64. For one thing, it was an entire generation behind us. Not in terms of gaming generations (although that too) but in age generations. those of us who grew up playing everything spanning ataris, commodore64s, apple IIc's, nintendos, genesis, etc. were hitting our twenties when n64 came out. The cartridge prices reflected both the cost of manufacturing, the technology in them, the larger wallets of the mid-nineties economies.

But in the early nineties we had a *ton* of retail outlets. barely anyone paid full retail. using that pamphlet isn't an accurate gauge because huge stores like Toys R Us would launch games with special pricing like someone already mentioned buy two for $40/ea or coupons for 34.99 or wait a month and pick it up for 29.99. There was a huge amount of brick and mortar competition so retail launch prices, even when they did come with surprising price tags, quickly deflated.

Just in one strip mall you'd have a Target, TRU, EBGames, and Best Buy so competition was fierce. Compare that to now where you probably have about five sources total in a large metro area to go and hold a game in your hand before purchasing.

Although, the funny thing that no one has mentioned is the they used to milk the crap out of us back then too. We had gaming magazines, toll numbers for gaming hints, well someone did mention the tons of accessories.
 

LeninGHOLA

Vladimir Hayt
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
18,416
Although, the funny thing that no one has mentioned is the they used to milk the crap out of us back then too. We had gaming magazines, toll numbers for gaming hints, well someone did mention the tons of accessories.

Those were for people who didn't know what a BBS was :)
 

mope54

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
7,443
lol byte buyer was free so I had a list of local BBS to call if only I could have afforded the $400 dollar 300 baud modems :(
 

vengence

Level capped
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
18,471
dlc-mona-lisa-1.jpg
This.
As much as it pains me to agree with fail...
 

jrrandell

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
410
That's one of my complaints about Dragon Age Origins, as vast as the world was and as rich as the lore is, it just begged to be more open world.

If they tried making it TES: Oblivion or Skyrim style, it would be better.

I hear in DA3 they are planning on a more open world approach ie skyrim.

Hope this becomes true because it will be one of my favorite games.
 
Top