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Discussion in 'PC Gaming & Hardware' started by Blade-Runner, Dec 3, 2016.
So glad this is coming to PC as well, because the last Capcom vs Marvel game was only console only. I've always liked the Capcom vs Marvel series and I expect this one to be good.
You've seen this right?
A post on Shoryuken mentioned that Lupinko is saying that these characters will also be in the game (rumor so take it with a grain or mountain of salt):
From the Marvel side:
Howard the Duck
Kamala Khan/Ms. Marvel
Hunter from Monster Hunter
None of these sound all that outrageous. If there really won't be X-men or Fantastic Four characters in then Gwenpool can take the Deadpool slot, since she is a version of Gwen Stacey with Deadpool's powers and insanity. Howard the Duck has been getting a lot of attention on the comics side lately and he's a fun character so he fits. Groot, of course fits. And Kamala is one of Marvel's most popular characters right now, easily the best new character Marvel has created since Miles Morales and she could have a really fun moveset as well. The Capcom characters mostly make sense as well. Might as well toss my Mega Man people in since Capcom has taken so much heat for how they've treated the franchise lately.
In more news: Max of Maximillian_DOOD talked to some of the Marvel folks at the Capcom Cup and asked about Fox characters in the game. Marvel's response was telling him to "hold on". So they're not outright saying no to those characters being in, which is interesting. Makes me wonder if they're planning to add some of them. Based on what Max said, it sounds like the Marvel people were pretty openly talking to a lot of people and seemed to be listening to what fans where suggesting and asking.
No X-men means not enough variety imo
Wish it was 2d like mvc2 and guilty gear.
Looks quite bland and terrible to be honest, and the dialogue in the gameplay just ruined it. Even Tekken 7 looks better than this, and I'm usually a fan of Street Fighter/Capcom games.
Well, getting close to release and looking waaaaay better. Pretty hyped actually. I was going to get it for PS4 but it was only $28 for the PC version so I couldn't pass it up.
Where'd you get it for $28 for PC?
Well I guess I won't be buying this till the complete version is available, same reason I haven't grabbed SFV yet. How I despise $DLC.
"we have seen very little of the game itself"
that's the thing that would most worry me if I were thinking of picking this up...too much mystery regarding actual gameplay details...
Tyrant posts videos every few days. We've seen tons of gameplay footage. Most FGC people that have played it say the gameplay is there and it's solid.
That article is 5 months old. There is no mystery.
Played way too much after steam release yesterday. First impressions are really good. I'm a fighting game player, but I'm new to Marvel. Game runs flawlessly. I haven't played online yet as I'm still working/learning characters and basics.
Infinity Storms/Surges and Switching all feels really good. Almost everyone has said the netcode is great so it's looking good long term.
Too bad the population appears to be so low on PC because the online play is fantastic.
So many people complained or bitched about the game before it ever came out and it turns out it's pretty great other than lackluster UI and some graphics not as good as they could be.
In terms of fighting game gameplay, it all seems top notch. It runs flawlessly locked at 60fps for me.
I'm on the fence on this one....looks really good, but i don't know how long i'd enjoy it.
Everything I've seen and heard about the gameplay is great, the roster still does nothing for me. Jedah is cool and Hunter looks neat, but eeeeeh. There are very few characters I can look at and get excited to play. Capcom made some absolutely brain dead decisions on the cast.
Totally agree. I'm enjoying it because it's my first Marvel game. I'll play it seriously for a long while and probably eventually buy it on sale for PS4 when PC population is gone. If I had played UMvC3 id probably not be as happy with it due to the roster.
The game is fun as hell and definitely hype though
I didn't play a lot of MvC3 or UMvC3 but I grew up with Capcom fighters and played the hell out of MvC2 on the Dreamcast. I might pick up MvCI down the road, but I'm going to wait and see how the roster looks as we see more and more videos showcasing the DLC characters. Given how cool Monster Hunter looks I'm really interested in seeing Sigma, Panther, and Winter Solider. Venom and Widow as well, but not as much as those three.
Fucking crash and burn lol. I think I put in 100 hours so I got my money out of it but daaaamn
I can actually see it happening. No one plays the game now.
That is beyond fucking woeful if true. Need to remember to buy a copy before it gets removed from steam, but fuck Capcom for this $DLC model.....charging for extra characters needs to die in a dumpster fire already.
Characters are incredibly expensive to make for fighting games these days. The cost to make a single character for something as "simple" as Skullgirls was $200,000-$250,000. By massively cutting salary and other expenses they got it down to $150k for a crowfunding campaign. A single Street Figher 4 character cost over a million dollars. USFIV had 44 characters. That is over 44 million dollars on characters alone.
I agree bs. I doubt they spent more then 44mil on the entire game.
I can see fresh characters and new games having higher development costs, but Capcom has a ton of base content to draw from. 25+ years and 200+ characters worth. They aren't cranking out palette swapped ninjas or anything, but they're absolutely recycling content whenever possible. Including "fan favorite" characters and mechanics isn't just lip service. It's simply flat out easier.
Not remotely. You have no idea what goes into making a character in a fighting game, do you? It is very easy to believe 1+ million per character. It takes several people to make a single character, it takes a long ass time to do animations. You have to keep in mind that animation is incredibly important to fighting games, they have to be carefully done so they look good. There is also the multiple iterations of the design the character has to go through. All the pre-production work that goes into figuring out moves, costumes, balance, and so on. Then a lot of that is thrown out the window as actual design beings and things need to be tweaked or changed to find a way to make the character fun but also somewhat balanced. After that there is ass loads of QA testing to make sure the character actually functions. You also need to hire a voice actor of some kind to do any lines of dialog or "fighting sounds" required for the character. Breaking down the $150k they were asking from crowd funding LabZero said this:
$48,000: Staff Salaries – 8 people for 10 weeks
$30,000: Animation and Clean-up Contracting
$4,000: Voice recording
$2,000: Hit-box Contracting
$5,000: Audio Implementation Contracting
$20,000: QA Testing
$10,000: 1st Party Certification
$10,500: IndieGoGo and Payment Processing Fees
$20,500: Manufacturing and Shipping Physical Rewards
The last two are specific to crowdfunding, so the adjusted cost for the character would be $119,000. And that is after the staff agreed to take massive pay cuts and after the character was already a 3rd of the way through development. The budget for a character they wanted to do if the crowdfunding got high enough for $200,000 including fees and all the jazz. They're also the ones that shared the $1m per character for SF4. Big productions are incredibly expensive. There is a reason just developing a AAA game these days, not including marketing costs, can be upwards of 70-8 million dollars. Something to note too, cert is going to cost more for bigger games. That 48k for 8 people across 10 weeks is incredibly cheap, by the way. Based on the average pay of develops in Japan (57,590 as of 2010) that same exact amount of time and people would be over double that amount. I imagine it takes a hell of lot more than eight people to make a single character for a big fighting game and more than ten weeks.
Oh, and, apparently no one is old enough to remember older fighting games. It has ALWAYS cost more to get extra characters in a fighting game. It is actually a lot cheaper now days then it has ever been. Before you'd have to buy a brand new, full priced, game release to get new characters and balance changes. Either that or we got nothing as new characters and tweaks were exclusively sold to arcades and if anyone wanted in on that action they'd be spending several hundred dollars to get the updated board, assuming they'd already spent the several thousand to get a cabinet in the first place.
I wouldn't be surprised if even the copy and pasted characters in MvCI's base roster where near a million. The Capcom characters maybe not, but Disney is a greedy fucker and I imagine licensing cost for each character they control was not remotely small.
Not my problem and I seriously don't give a fuck. If they can't make a financially viable game at a standard RRP of $60 then they can go pound sand because they're not going to extract one extra cent out of me, if anything they make even less money by these types of decisions given that I am happy to wait for the GOTY edition to drop to $10 or less as opposed to buying close to release. The whole "AAA games are really expensive to make" excuse is also total horse shit as extensively refuted by Jim Sterling...
The fuck are you talking about? This has nothing to do with things like loot boxes or microtransactions. I didn't say that AAA games are too expensive or that they can't make money, I'm saying that them charging for extra characters (aka an entirely separate budget) seems fair given the cost of making each one. I have no problem paying for well made additional characters to a good fighting game (MvCI need not apply). Its better than getting nothing at all after release, because they sure as hell wouldn't be free, or going back to the days of paying full price for for a new game with 4 extra characters and some mechanical changes. I did that enough with SF2 and 3. MvCI is a complete shit show when it comes to its roster, but the concept of extra characters as paid DLC is fine. Like all DLC models it depends entirely on how it is used. Blazblue Cross Tag locking nearly half its roster behind paid DLC? Complete fbullshit. On the flip side, Injustice 2 handled it pretty well. Great base roster with some fun and unique DLC characters (and also Sub-Zero and Raiden for some reason).
Wow, they really have a lot of their player base brainwashed don't they? You completely missed what Blade-Runner was even saying.
MvC 2, arguably the best game in the series had 56 playable characters. There was no DLC. MVC 3 had 36 characters. 6 more than MvC:I. And that's including if you buy all of MvC:I's DLC. MvC 3 also somehow managed more characters "miraculously" without needing more money.
What we're saying is that the "division of characters" that thing you're calling "a separate budget" isn't really a separate budget at all. It isn't like Capcom didn't think they were going to make those characters. They decided to make those characters "separately" in order to extract more profit out of the dedicated player base. Thinking that they did anything other than that is incredibly naive. It's a way of making a $60 game, in reality something more like an $80 or $100 game (in the case of MVC:I, it's $90 to buy the 6 additional characters. So you do the math, 50% of the cost of the base game was required in order to get 6 more characters? If you're buying that then you must think the entire engine and for some reason developing 24 characters just costs a lot less). This 'necessary' cost increase to the buyer is simply due to the fact that they're extracting important assets that puts players at a disadvantage if they do not buy those characters. If they are remotely interested in competitive play, or even casual play to enjoy all of the other characters, certain lineups immediately are not viable. And during online play you'll get the joy of other people smashing your face in with characters you don't have.
This isn't to say that the DLC characters are "more powerful" (although in every fighting game there is a tier list and if you're missing important characters from that tier list then you have a problem). But to say their lack of inclusion doesn't affect gameplay is also a lie. So, people that are competitive or want to have the fun of playing the characters immediately Capcom gets to extract more money out of. And then later on when they create some sort of all-inclusive edition, they get everyone else to buy it. These tactics are clearly anti-consumer and are simply using psychology in order to drive profit.
To reiterate, if you think all of a sudden a massive company like Capcom that sells millions of copies globally in terms of fighting games every year needed more money to be able to create "more characters" than you are fooling yourself. And you're buying the lie that the PR team is feeding you.
I think I covered my thoughts on MvCI and its roster clearly in the reply, if you'd care to pay attention to it. I'm discussing the concept of paid characters, not just paid characters in a bad fighting game.
They plan to make extra characters, but they are given a separate budget. You're not seeing what I'm saying here. I'm not saying they couldn't afford to do it (though given Capcom's financial state at the moment maybe they couldn't) I'm saying I think charging for extra characters is fair. I like supporting good content for games I enjoy. Whether it's the myriad of additional DLCs for Paradox grand strategy games or the pretty excellent fighter packs for Injustice 2, I have zero problem paying for new content that I will find fun in games that I like.
No, you did express yourself just fine. But you clearly haven't considered either of our points or watched the Jimquisition video posted. So I would say that it's you that haven't heard us.
What you are being sold is a tactic to make more money. And Capcom clearly realizes that there are many people like you that share your sentiment that they are willing to pay more money for content that should have been included with the base game in the first place. And you also entirely missed the point that every added character isn't an added character. It was designed from the beginning with balance in mind and divided from the base game so that people like you would pay more for it.
If you can justify paying 50% more on top of the base cost of the base game in order to get 25% more characters, that's on you. But even if I agreed with you, and believed the lie that the game makers needed more money to create these extra characters (surprise, they don't), then their pricing should be in line with how much the rest of the game costs. If 26 characters costed you $60. Than an additional character should only be $2.50. So you're already overpaying by over double. If you buy two characters then I suppose you're "only" overpaying by exactly double. But even that division doesn't make sense, because then we're just glossing over the cost it took to make the game engine and all the other parts of the game that aren't purely character assets. So really even the valuation of $2.50 a character is still too high.
But it's fine, I don't expect people to truly see the economics of this and understand that they're getting sold a product that it's producers can sell you twice. And that all of these "splits" are artificial. Exactly like the other examples you listed: BlazBlu Cross Tag and Injustice 2. It's just you've put your own personal line in the sand of what's "acceptable" to you and what isn't. When really none of it should be tolerated.