Mark Zuckerberg Calls for Universal Basic Income in Harvard Commencement Speech

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, May 27, 2017.

  1. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's the main reason why any government is looking into this. The money used to staff people to properly distribute the money is better spent just giving people money. The idea is that you hopefully reduce homelessness and give people opportunities to better themselves.
    Well, any amount of money is better than nothing. The smart thing to do is make currency 100% digital so you can t rack where the money goes. You don't want people using this money to buy illegal drugs.

    The problem is those low-end jobs are dead end jobs. People work them cause they have no choice. But those same people can't afford time for school. If you want a better paying job, you need education, but you also need time to study. At the same time those jobs pay shit. You can make a better case to be payed better than minimum wage when you can just give them the finger and live off UBI. If you think that's unfair, just remember that companies often hire unqualified Indian workers to take your job using H1B. If not that, then they move the job out of country all together.
    You'd be lucky to receive $2k a month. UBI will likely pay you something like $250 to $500 per month. If you live with people then you can survive off that for a while.
    Maybe, but at some point it'll have to pass due to automation. It's not the reason why governments are exploring it now, but it'll be required to prevent a total economic collapse once automation takes hold.
     
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  2. runudownquick

    runudownquick Gawd

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    ITT: lots of people taking a crap on the idea but not providing any ideas to help everyone rise up from poverty besides "durrr, work harder."
     
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  3. Snowdensjacket

    Snowdensjacket Limp Gawd

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    Unionize Starbucks and Walmart. Stop sending every 100 IQ midwit to university where they learn nothing but leave with $50,000 in debt. Stop telling 85 IQ thug morons that the reason they are worthless failures is because the white man stole their gibmedats and that they should accept their lowly station that their 85 IQ can provide and be happy they get to do it in such an amazing country.

    How about those things?
     
  4. Nytegard

    Nytegard 2[H]4U

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    Automation is going to be a problem, in the very near future imho. I know it's been brought up how in the past, automation has existed, and that jobs have continued to exist, but there comes a point when we reach that point where there just aren't any new industries which can exist. And unfortunately, AI helps bring us to singularity. And I do think it's about a few billionaires trying to appease people, because I also believe that if this country becomes a banana republic, there will be an uprising to overthrow (or at least attempt to) the oligarchy. The problem here is that people are selfish and greedy by nature, and they want UBI, provided that everyone but them provides the money for it. The wealthy like Zuckerberg and Musk could easily give away their fortune today, but they don't, at least not a substantial part, nor towards just overall benefitting of humanity, rather than a charity that acts more as an investment for them.
     
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  5. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    The irony on this hurts my head... a billionaire proposing a solution to help society to address problems that are primarily the fault of policies by and for billionaires in the first place...

    UBI could be an answer, it's hard to say. The proposal coming from Mark Zuckerberg only harms its image.

    Hey, that's totally not true, their solution is to let people die in the street, because that's obviously the best we can think up:

    That could be halfway sane if everyone able was guaranteed a living wage job. As it stands, making everyone play musical chairs for food and shelter is basically barbarism. I assume of course YOU would have a job and would be cool with laying down and dying if you couldn't find one, despite being qualified.
     
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  6. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    I personally would rather have those people educated and working on better things. There's a lot that needs to be done. More automation, more AI, more medicine. Why waste a human by trying to keep their job at Starbucks and Walmart? Of all places, Star fucking Bucks and Walmart.
    That's the fault of our education system. But we should do what NY is doing by giving everyone free college education.
    I'm personally not a big fan of the IQ system. I believe people can improve themselves with time. Stop labeling people with a flawed system like IQ. Once you get over that people are more than a IQ number, we can then move forward.
    My ideas are better.
     
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  7. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    Sooner or later - and it might be sooner than later depending on how things go, of course - this kind of concept, UBI, is going to have to make its presence in societies around the world because the push for mechanized aka robotization good and services manufacturing and distribution is coming whether we like it or not. Once it becomes truly the way things get done, get made, get distributed, then that's going to leave a metric fuckton of humanity without actual jobs and careers - it doesn't mean they won't have things to do, won't have bills to pay, food they need to eat, homes they need to survive, clothing, etc aka the basic necessities of living in this world, but it will mean that they simply can't get those things by having a job.

    Even now in today's world it's simply not a possibility for every capable adult to have a job with a living income - it's impossible: there are ~7.4 billion people today give or take a few million either way, and if we figure about 60% of those are capable adults that could do work of various kinds, there just aren't ~4.4 billion actual jobs available, not even fucking close to that and there never will be. Long ago when the population was much lower across the planet it might have been possible, there were probably times in the industrial age where a very high percentage of the capable adults were working, one such period was during WWII at least here in the US because our industrialized society kicked into a pretty high gear and the mantra was "Everybody plays a part in this..." - even women were "enlisted" in a sort of manner into jobs and industries where they'd never ever have a chance to work: steel, coal, huge factories producing the military hardware that pushed the US and its allies to victory during that terrible period in our history.

    So even though I don't give a fuck that it was Zuckerberg that spewed this idea out at this particular point in time it is something that does need to be considered just the same. It'll be interesting to see how things progress but as I'm at the half-century mark in a few days it's not like I expect to be around when that kind of society comes into being. Suffice to say my ideal society was basically something along the lines of the Star Trek model (glad someone posted that little snippet from TNG earlier in the thread). It's not really about taking away from the rich and giving it to the poor, it really isn't but so many people can only see it as such, it's more about just making things better for everyone regardless of their circumstances.

    When we have a society where so few have so much, it really is a big huge massive problem when those very same people that do have so much got so much on the backs of the very people that have so little - that's not always the reason, of course, but in the majority of situations it is. Yes that actually does make sense even if it sounds like a convoluted mess of words. :D
     
  8. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    At some point money will be worthless. This is why the wealthy are for UBI. Money is literally an imaginary thing, and modern monies value is based on a countries productivity output and not gold. When automation does hit we either do away with money or we use UBI. UBI will continue to support the idea of money and will continue to give value to the wealthiest huge amounts of money.

    I personally believe we're going to have a new economic system in the future where the government pays everyone. Except for direct sales of items, your pay check comes from the government. You get paid based on what you do, literally everything you do. From a volunteer fire fighter to picking up trash to being the CEO of a huge company. On top of it, there are two currencies. One used by people, and one used for trading with other countries. I call it Gamificationism. This is how I see the future of money. Rick and Morty had the right idea in that money is literally a value we give it. At some point that 1 will be a 0.

     
  9. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Ayn Rand's Anthem comes to mind.
     
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  10. cdabc123

    cdabc123 2[H]4U

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    I think this would be great. As long as the robot overlords embrace us so humanity dosnt have anything they need to do.
     
  11. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking 2[H]4U

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    The shit storm of lack of regard for your fellow human being is shocking in this thread. I pity those of you who lack the common decency to care about the man or woman that you can't see that is suffering.

    I wonder if you will ever find yourself in that situation and realize how hard it is. And for those of you that do... I hope there are people more caring in your life to help lift you up... instead of wondering why you don't just better yourself.
     
  12. EODetroit

    EODetroit [H]ard|Gawd

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    He explained it clearly. It replaces welfare and the expensive system in place to distribute it and make sure it isn't abused. Its a more efficient system. You only had to read the part of the article [H] quoted to understand this.
     
  13. Snowdensjacket

    Snowdensjacket Limp Gawd

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    Lol. The magic floating castle of robot slaves to give you free shit. Good luck with that. Meanwhile I'll be over here working my ass off and winning. With my 139 IQ that surely just means nuffin. :D
     
  14. funkydmunky

    funkydmunky 2[H]4U

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    It is called Communism.
    I am surprised these Globalist Marxists aren't chanting this louder. There are a lot of special snow-flakes who are wanting to be taken care of.
    50+ years of strongly Leftist governments, has left the so-called "free-world", in a middle class dissolving welfare state.
    Those who control the global media, and the global banking system are about to put their foot on the accelerator!
    Put a fork in us we are done.
     
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  15. Extra-Titanian

    Extra-Titanian [H]ard|Gawd

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    Isn't this the same dumb shit that every socialist government has attempted to set up, only for it to fail horribly, resulting in a complete economic collapse that ended up killing millions over the past century? How is this going to not cause massive inflation? Isn't this just going to result in devaluing our currency? Why not, just, you know, fix the problems in our current welfare system instead of replacing it with what amounts to a pathetic thought experiment?
     
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  16. Rizen

    Rizen [H]ardForum Junkie

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    No. Communism is a form of government where the state plans the economy. Every country that has tried UBI in some form (Finland, apparently Canada, I think the Swiss are looking at it) has been a capitalistic market economy. Please everyone, get the idea that social assistance = communism/socialism out of your head.
     
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  17. Rizen

    Rizen [H]ardForum Junkie

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    No.
    Inflation, among other things, is caused by largescale creation of new money. UBI is paid for with taxes. This likely wouldn't cause inflation.
    No.
    Because the idea is that it costs less than existing welfare systems because of administrative overhead and has better results, that's why.
     
  18. Extra-Titanian

    Extra-Titanian [H]ard|Gawd

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    So decrease the overhead? Problem solved.
     
  19. Terpfen

    Terpfen [H]ardness Supreme

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    Musk is the hollow, existing-product-repackaging showman that the Internet accused Steve Jobs of being. That said, his work with SpaceX is fantastic.

    Zuckerberg had a great idea at the right time and has done nothing of note since. Every time he opens his mouth, he proves that even the oblivious and self-unaware can stumble into success in this country.
     
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  20. 5icko

    5icko Guest

    These beta male commies need to be STOPPED.
     
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  21. Snowdensjacket

    Snowdensjacket Limp Gawd

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    Because we use fake "money" called a federal reserve note no. No. The government absolutely does not use taxes to pay for what they dole out. They simply go into more debt, debt that we place onto our children, to get more money to spend.

    Yes this creates inflation, a hidden tax, but everyone will simply pretend that this isn't happening. But just look at my life as a thirty six year old man. When I was nineteen a pound of hamburger was $1, a gallon of milk was $1, and a dozen quality donuts? One dollar.

    So $3 for those. Go to the grocery store today and tell me how much you just paid for those three things.

    One small anecdote among many.
     
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  22. sir-gold

    sir-gold Gawd

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    This was at Harvard, a school for rich kids who already have income for life in the form of trust funds.

    Is there a phrase that means the exact opposite of "preaching to the choir"? Because that's what he was doing.
     
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  23. Inu

    Inu [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think the real question is..

    Once UBI goes into effect as described here..
    It's a essentially a stupid amount of money in one singular project.
    How are they going to prevent people in authority from lining their pockets?

    I've yet to see a solution to this. You'd think this would be easy, but not so much.
     
  24. Rizen

    Rizen [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'm 32. The reason food is more expensive is because of corn being used for ethanol driving up the price of grains and feed for cattle. Sure there has been some inflation, but overall it's not nearly as dramatic as that.
     
  25. Pusher of Buttons

    Pusher of Buttons [H]ard|Gawd

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    Dude you don't shop much....I paid 89 cents for my last gallon of milk and 49 cents for a dozen eggs. Gas is actually pretty cheap right now compared to the $4 mess. Commodities prices has way more to do with supply and demand. In this case industries like dairies that used to require a lot of labor are highly automated and the price has bottomed out, but at the cost of tons of labor jobs.
     
  26. funkydmunky

    funkydmunky 2[H]4U

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    The state does plan. Was it not planning when it gave tax dollars to the auto industry? That isn't capitalism. How about when it gave trillions to the Banks? That isn't capitalism.
    You live in a socialist country whether you want to open your eyes or not. And universal pay will once and for all destroy the middle class. The upper class will stay right where they are, running the show. As always.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
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  27. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    If they are truly going to replace all welfare programs with UBI, it's going to have to be a lot more.
    Some welfare takers are earning the equivalent of $50,000 a year in Hawaii (when you include housing, food stamps, general assistance, fake disability, etc.) I doubt they would stand for the pay cut.

    Most the homeless will stay homeless (except they might spring for a week in hotel until the run out of money)
    With many of them, you can clean them up, provide an apartment and a job, and in a month they will be back on the street again.

    As for not spending the UBI on drugs, good luck. The takers have many ways to launder assistance so they can turn it into cash to buy drugs.
     
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  28. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    You must not live in Commifornia.
    Lowest price for gas in my city is $2.95/gal, and by the end of the year they will be adding another 20 cents in taxes.
    Milk? cheapest sale price the past month was $2.49/gallon
    I did find eggs on sale for 99 cent/dozen a couple week ago, so I stocked up since they are normally well over $2.
     
  29. gman

    gman [H]ard|Gawd

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    Apparently he's not aware of what's going on in Venezuela.

    I have no problem with helping those that really need it, but income redistribution is not the answer.
     
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  30. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Elite class runs america. This is so true. I have worked damn hard for way of life to earn what I do today. But everytime we talk about giving big business break and all that shit it just goes in opposite direction. Costs go up, fuckin gas prices go up. Pays don't go up. CEO earn shit load. Charter CEO paid 98.5 million to stay on job until 2021. I mean you mean to tell me that these damn share holders can't fuckin pay some of that to employees that work hard to keep jobs. It is just so dumb. I work for AT&T this year they have cut about 10000+ jobs and they are cutting more but guess what 100 billion to time warner. I mean Randall has lost his damn mind but guess what he will get top dollars for driving the company in debt. All hires within company are relationship hires no one is hired on qualifications. At least not what I have seen, yea I will probably get promoted for being cool but i make sure my hard work backs that up. I have no issue with corporations making decent profit and people on top being well paid but really the money they get paid is absurd. I mean employee pay has been hurting while CEO pay has sky rocketed.

    Take some of that money and hook everyone up, lol!
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
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  31. goatmonster

    goatmonster Limp Gawd

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  32. funkydmunky

    funkydmunky 2[H]4U

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    They, like all E.U. countries, are also experimenting with mass immigration of non alike cultures. Odds are both will fail miserably.
    Not a coincidence that both are happening at the same time. If there is a free ride for one, then it needs to be for both or you have trouble.
    But I suspect "trouble" is the point.
    Global Marxism (Socialism/Communism) is a bitch!
     
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  33. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

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    Because giving everyone "free" k-12 education has done wonders for so many? Free in this case makes it worthless except to those who make the best of it (due to culture and IQ) and they are often hampered by those who think they should be there but shouldn't.
     
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  34. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Oh yea? so you assume everyone is dumb if you don't belong to certain culture? Tell you a little story. 2 of my friends who were not great in math and everyone thought couldn't graduate.

    One graduated with Bacheors in Mechanical engineering and one graduated with masters in bio medical engineering. It's not about culture or iq. These two were bad at math and I helped them and they devoted themselves and tried their best and got better and better. I myself at first thought they would not graduate but I am glad to be wrong. Failure is everyone's right as much as success. Everyone who wants to go to college should. To say some shouldn't be there is just stupid.
     
  35. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    No, you ignorant Titanian. The system you're thinking about gave everyone JOBS, not money. Huge difference. I won't even address the other non sense.

    I know the type that is against anything good for society. The type that enjoy seeing others fail. The miserably, hateful type that is unhappy with their own lives.
     
  36. JackNSally

    JackNSally Limp Gawd

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    All those lazy Alaskans living off the dole...

    EDIT: Ok, it's not exactly a UBI but in the end, it's the same.
     
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  37. JackNSally

    JackNSally Limp Gawd

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    Maybe read the article and see that the money isn't going to immigrants. So no, no free ride for immigrants
     
  38. Smashing Young Man

    Smashing Young Man [H]ard|Gawd

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    Sure, let's finish destroying society.
     
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  39. Delicieuxz

    Delicieuxz Gawd

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    Guaranteed basic income actually has a lot of support from conservatives, because done right, it reduces government overhead and costs less than all the assistance services that currently exist.


    People who want more than basic income.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
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  40. mullet

    mullet [H]ard|Gawd

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    I wish there was a way to where your age had to be next to your name when making a post, it would make things so much easier.