Marc Andreessen: Snowden Is 'A Textbook Traitor'

Semantics

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Who the fuck cares who snowden is, probably the biggest full of shit about the whole thing is more people know who snowden is and what's he's doing rather than the actual details of the documents he leaked. Full of shit way to whistle blow imo.
 

Skripka

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Here is the reality what I do and do not know will not be proven on a forum, but if they did have some or all of it, we just filled in a bunch of blanks that make us collectively weaker. Not arrogant, but a secret is a secret for a reason.

Yup. As shown in the last decade by Dick Cheney, if it embarrasses you or your billionaire friends stamp it "TREATED AS SECRET/SCI" and lock it in your man-sized safe.
 

VonGriffin

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Speaking of thing you cannot prove.

yet you can prove what where his true intentions ?

what we only have for sure is a simple fact:
-he stole top secrete US government documents while at work and released them to the public, as such including enemy countrys like Iran or North Korea

on what planet this isn't a definition on high treason ?
 

Skripka

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yet you can prove what where his true intentions ?

what we only have for sure is a simple fact:
-he stole top secrete US government documents while at work and released them to the public, as such including enemy countrys like Iran or North Korea

on what planet this isn't a definition on high treason ?

You might want to take it up with the Founding Framers:

US Constitution Article III Section 3 said:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Snowden didn't levy war...didn't "adhere" to them, and as such couldn't give "aid" or "comfort"... And "giving aid" is a tenuous proof at best as apart from righteous indignation there's no reason not to believe the Russians and Chinese already knew all this shit. Hell do we even have any *certified* enemies right now to adhere to outside of McCain and Graham's war-mongering pea-brained electioneering skulls?

"On what planet this isn't a definition of high treason"
I cannot speak for whatever planet you live on...but in this country it is not.
 

Old_Way

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By strict definition of the word, he is a traitor. He signed NDA's and took oaths to not disclose what he knew. The government has no choice but to go after him to the fullest extent possible or risk losing other secrets to other 'whistleblowers'.

From my personal perspective though, I give Snowden props for exposing the lies of our government. We elect those people, pay taxes for their salaries, provide them lifetime pensions, etc.... And in return they want to turn us into their sheep to either fleece or control as they see fit.
 

TorxT3D

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LMAO at anyone who thinks hes a traitor or hero.

he is neither.

hes nothing more than a marketing advertiser for the NSA and government.
the whole agenda here is for him to keep reeling out what the nsa is doing, to make us complacent, not care, and accepting. its a form of brainwashing. alot of people are already like "another day, another snowden leak".

when in actuality, its not a leak at all.. hes merely telling us what the government is doing.
so much so that we've gotten to the point where we dont care anymore, or some people think its cool, and alot of people think its great for safety.

he is merely programming everyone to think, "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb"
surely im not the only one that sees this. if this guy was a tried and true "traitor or hero", he'd be dead or missing by now.
 

Stiletto

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Unlike those people for whom we free terrorists to bring them home.

Who turn out to be terrorist supporting-scum.

Naw, the traitor is the one who pulls back the curtain.
 

Stiletto

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yet you can prove what where his true intentions ?

what we only have for sure is a simple fact:
-he stole top secrete US government documents while at work and released them to the public, as such including enemy countrys like Iran or North Korea

And as such including the American people. Who have a right to know.

Shucks.
 

Lith1um

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LoL at the rebirth of Amero-Russu paranoia, the tool used by BOTH of our governments during the more than half century preceding September 11th to subtlety control the general public, and conscript the fruits of labor. You can almost guess which era a poster may have been educated during.

Both of the governments were/are completely bat shit insane. I need no proof beyond this submission, http://youtu.be/LLCF7vPanrY

I can picture the American government and the Russian government facing toward each and simultaneously muttering, "those mutherfuckers over there are crazy. Detonate a few more just to prove that we're fucking crazier!"

The biggest enemy of mankind is big government, with big corporation placing a close second.
 

VonGriffin

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Who have a right to know.

so US citizens have a right to have access to legal and top secret government documents ?
not to mention ignoring all the laws that protect personal information

Can someone please explain me the purpose of agency's like CIA or NSA ?
organizations that in different forms and names every other government has
 

Skripka

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so US citizens have a right to have access to legal and top secret government documents ?
not to mention ignoring all the laws that protect personal information

Can someone please explain me the purpose of agency's like CIA or NSA ?
organizations that in different forms and names every other government has

Funny you mention that.

From the CIA's own website regarding its history and original mission/charter:

CIA.gov said:
They also eventually debated almost every word of its bill's intelligence section. Some members argued that the DCI and the new CIA could become a menace to civil liberties--an "American Gestapo." Administration witnesses alleviated this concern by reminding Congress that the Agency's authorized mission would be foreign intelligence.

https://www.cia.gov/news-informatio...ry-archive/national-security-act-of-1947.html
 

Json23

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Of course when Snowden released info that proved just about every major tech company in the world is giving a free backdoor pass (or profiting by selling your info) to guys like him are going to be crying foul.
 
S

shade91

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By the very definition, Snowden is in-fact a traitor. The problem with the definition is:

1) His case is very unique in that he had to flee the country to expose government corruption or be jailed and have the key and the story thrown away forever.

2) No proof has been shown that he divulged classified information to the Russian government. He had to leave to Russia because, well.. everyone else would have extradited him from their country out of rear of reprisal from the US. Anyone who says Snowden gave the Russian government classified information is the equivalent to a Birther.
 

xX326Xx

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The fact that this concerns national security, the fact that he never tried to do anything in the states but fled to countries where they would love to have his information that could be used against America e.g. China and Russia, the fact that he lied and cheated to get his job, lied and cheated to get the info, the fact that terrorists are changing their methods after the leak, the fact that he would leave his family behind for his cause.

This guy sounds legit to me. Kind of guy I would want for a friend, the kind of guy I'd love to have working with me, because he would never, ever do anything untrustworthy to anyone ever.

/sarcasm off

If he believed in what he was doing he would not have fled the country. There are plenty of other ways he could have done this. The fact he chose the route he did, he is a traitor and a coward. Only person who we know misused this info was Snowden himself. Guns don't kill people, people do. The NSA program doesn't violate people, people like Snowden used this info to violate his own country. Snowden wants you to believe everything he is saying using this Robin Hood mentality, I'm just not buying it. Spying has been around forever, to think we didn't have this technology I would have been amazed, I had speculated myself that I'm sure these capabilities were there.

On other countries, I give the same advise I would give my friends and family. If you are afraid of things like our government and the NSA program, if your doing shady shit, and you use technology, you have three options. Don't do shady shit, don't use technology, or don't use technology to do shady shit. Why is it so hard for people to understand. If you live in the US and you are looking for crap to build a bomb or commit a terrorist act, I'm glad these capabilities are there. I feel safe knowing my government was doing everything they could to keep me safe, it is the government's job. We pay taxes for them to keep us safe.

I swear I could make a killing off of selling tinfoil hats to people who think they are important enough that the NSA would be looking for them or at all interested in their daily activities.
 

mesyn191

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but a secret is a secret for a reason.
Lots of stuff has been rated secret for political instead of national security reasons. There is no reason to give the govt. or NSA the benefit of the doubt here. Just sit down and read the Pentagon Papers if you want a real world example. Or read up on COINTELPRO if you want another one.

Both of those BTW were leaked to the public by whistleblowers who took serious risks like Snowden to get the information out. Otherwise they'd probably still be secret today.
 

mesyn191

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The government has no choice but to go after him to the fullest extent possible or risk losing other secrets to other 'whistleblowers'.
Nope. They can drop the charges if they like. They did that during the Watergate scandal.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

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Of course when Snowden released info that proved just about every major tech company in the world is giving a free backdoor pass (or profiting by selling your info) to guys like him are going to be crying foul.

Companies that have to use manpower and support systems to meet the needs of the government should be able to bill the government for providing the service so they can not only cover costs but generate profits. Everything a company does is usually tied into making money. No one should even be worried about the money part. What they should be focusing on is how much more expensive data collection is going to get now because new methods need to be developed as old ones are disclosed or at risk of disclosure. Also, the amount of time that government officials have spent dealing with the public over this is costly too. I personally think that it was a huge mistake to take and share all this data since it's gonna result in a lot of dollars spent to regain capabilities that would otherwise still be effective. :( That means more taxes for us and fewer kitty treats for my fuzzy little meow kitty.
 

JaiWebb

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The fact that this concerns national security, the fact that he never tried to do anything in the states but fled to countries where they would love to have his information..

Hate to be the guy that has to report you the latest news (which you should know already making such claims) but he tried to go through proper channels but was told to shut it. well, he didn't feel like being a traitor to the people so he chose to be a traitor to the elite who abuse their power/privileges within the government.

A traitor to the government is usually a hero to the people of said government. National Security is just a guise to hide corruption. After all if the government wasn't doing anything wrong they should have nothing to hide. ;)
 

Comixbooks

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I would use Netscape Navigator if they brought back a scaling 64 bit version.
 

Retronym

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If the infallible government doesn't follow the law, why should we?
 

malingjc

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I'm also curious how this is tech-related news in any way.

Because someone very high in tech circles had an interview about a whistleblower who used technology to do so?

Come on. I love reading your posts, but that was really stupid to say that.
 

Lith1um

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On other countries, I give the same advise I would give my friends and family. If you are afraid of things like our government and the NSA program, if your doing shady shit, and you use technology, you have three options. Don't do shady shit, don't use technology, or don't use technology to do shady shit. Why is it so hard for people to understand.

LOL, what a simplistic, naive, almost childlike view of the world. "Don't do shady shit, and you have don't have to worry about super powerz being misused."

You act as if America stands on some type of moral high ground. Trouble is, it's America that's usually doing the shady shit. We spread death, disease, corruption, hatred, and indifference wherever we go.
 

c3141hf

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So, Edward Snowden, who reveals the criminal activities of the Obama regime, is a traitor but Obama, who negotiates with terrorists and aids them for the release of a deserter isn't? I'm sensing a bit of a double standard here.
 

TheCapulet

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Marc Andreessen is a textbook Idiot. Like if you look up in the encyclopedia 'idiot,' there's a picture of Marc Andreessen. Like he's a textbook idiot. They don't get much more idiotic than that.
 

mesyn191

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Obama, who negotiates with terrorists and aids them for the release of a deserter isn't? I'm sensing a bit of a double standard here.
Obama might be a shitty President but there isn't a law against his recent prisoner exchange and any possible legal argument against it is tortured at best.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

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Marc Andreessen is a textbook Idiot. Like if you look up in the encyclopedia 'idiot,' there's a picture of Marc Andreessen. Like he's a textbook idiot. They don't get much more idiotic than that.

He's got a lot more money than us. Maybe we're doing it wrong and he knows something we don't. I mean he coined the term "Information Superhighway" and practically invented tubes filled with cats carrying data packets!
 

Stiletto

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Because someone very high in tech circles had an interview about a whistleblower who used technology to do so?

Come on. I love reading your posts, but that was really stupid to say that.

So it's yet another opinion from some person about Edward Snowden. It's now a year-old story. Apart from the fact that the endless Snowden-bashing in the media is transparent propaganda, again...how does that relate to technology? It doesn't inform us about anything except the view of some dude.
 

Stiletto

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Why do you obey laws?

Dunno about him, but I either follow laws because I have no desire to break them, or because I am terrified of the consequences. Cops, federal agents, and prisons are scarier than criminals these days. And anyone who thinks that's a good thing is someone who makes me very nervous.
 
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Obama might be a shitty President but there isn't a law against his recent prisoner exchange and any possible legal argument against it is tortured at best.

Actually there is a law, signed into effect by Obama. He has to give Congress notice, 30 days in advance of the release of any inmates housed at Guantanamo Bay. He did not do so, therefore he broke the law. :)
 

Stiletto

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Obama might be a shitty President but there isn't a law against his recent prisoner exchange and any possible legal argument against it is tortured at best.

Remember when the President openly abusing executive power was a bad thing? Those were the days...
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

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Dunno about him, but I either follow laws because I have no desire to break them, or because I am terrified of the consequences. Cops, federal agents, and prisons are scarier than criminals these days. And anyone who thinks that's a good thing is someone who makes me very nervous.

I'm pretty sure that fear of consequences is the only way to ensure someone does obey rules or laws. If there was a better way, the lots and lots of years that humans have existed and people have been coming up with super cool ideas would have uncovered a different way to obtain compliance and an orderly society. Consequences and fear are the only way to get people to not be disruptive. From "If you do that, you're gonna get in trouble," as a little person to "If you hurt someone else, you'll be prosecuted and face criminal charges," it all boils down to an if-then thing with the then being more scary or costly than the reward for doing the if.

If you know of a better way, I'd like to hear it. If you don't, then you might make wanna remember to be nervous when you look in a mirror.
 

Stiletto

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I'm pretty sure that fear of consequences is the only way to ensure someone does obey rules or laws. If there was a better way, the lots and lots of years that humans have existed and people have been coming up with super cool ideas would have uncovered a different way to obtain compliance and an orderly society. Consequences and fear are the only way to get people to not be disruptive. From "If you do that, you're gonna get in trouble," as a little person to "If you hurt someone else, you'll be prosecuted and face criminal charges," it all boils down to an if-then thing with the then being more scary or costly than the reward for doing the if.

If you know of a better way, I'd like to hear it. If you don't, then you might make wanna remember to be nervous when you look in a mirror.

Here's the thing: the only laws I'd ever consider breaking wouldn't harm anyone. Various crimes like rape and murder have been well-established as ultimate evils in society. Laws were originally intended to prohibit evil behavior that would harm others.

However, laws are no longer tools to protect people. They're tools to enforce the will of politicians. They're projects to force people to act in certain ways and think in certain ways. It's called social engineering, backed up by people with guns who can kill you, and likely get away with it.

That's supposed to be a good thing?
 

heatlesssun

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Actually there is a law, signed into effect by Obama. He has to give Congress notice, 30 days in advance of the release of any inmates housed at Guantanamo Bay. He did not do so, therefore he broke the law. :)

Congress was WELL AWARE of this deal. The entire public was well aware of this deal, it's been public for two years now. There were really only two choices here, try to free Bergdahl or let him die in captivity. Considering how long it took for this to finally happen, it's obvious there was a lot of resistance to do this deal. But apparently all of the top of the military had a change of heart when they got the last video of Bergdahl back in December.

If Bergdahl had died in captivity the same people speaking out against this deal would instead be blaming Obama for not acting when had the ability to free an active member of the military, who by the way was promoted twice while in captivity.
 

mesyn191

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Actually there is a law...He has to give Congress notice, 30 days in advance of the release of any inmates housed at Guantanamo Bay... therefore he broke the law. :)
Nope. He has Constitutional authority there. There is also recent historical legal precedent with Ford's orders during Vietnam to rescue US nationals.

Remember when the President openly abusing executive power was a bad thing? Those were the days...
Executive orders aren't an abuse of power. You can disagree with them but that still doesn't make them bad or illegal.
 

farscapesg1

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Dunno about him, but I either follow laws because I have no desire to break them, or because I am terrified of the consequences.

And that's the problem. Wouldn't it be nice of the military and government were terrified of breaking laws and regulations whenever they deem it "necessary"? Seriously, take the President for example. Pretty much the worst case scenario if he did anything horribly, utterly wrong is that he gets impeached. Basically.. he loses his job but still gets paid. Now take Snowden for example. If he had gotten caught before making it to a country that wouldn't extradite him back to the US, he would have been locked up and never heard from again.

Oh no.. someone lied and cheated to get into a position to steal information from an organization that is built on lying\cheating\stealing to do their "job". But somehow he is a traitor while they are just doing their duties? Don't the anti-Snowden people see the irony in that?
 

mesyn191

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If Bergdahl had died in captivity the same people speaking out against this deal would instead be blaming Obama for not acting
Yuuuup. The entire thought chain here for most of the Republican/Teahadi Congress and even most Republicans themselves is: Obama did a thing = thing is wrong.
 
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