Managed ATT Router

MadJuggla9

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I currently have a 'managed' ATT Router as ATT provides a fiber link to our head end. I'm trying to alleviate this expensive 'managed' service which simply means that ATT can check if our circuit is down, which it rarely is.

I'm not sure what to say/ask for being able to simply hook up a decent router of my own and statically routing IPs from the fiber interface. As it sits we have Fiber going into a Ciena 3930 which allows for a CAT5 to go into our Cisco 9000 series router.

I'd like to get my hands on a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter and do away with these 2 (ciena and cisco) boxes but I know it isn't that easy. How can I manage my own directly from the fiber? Will ATT give me a current config file of some sort? I can not login to the router as it is property of ATT.

Im kind of asking something most aren't familiar with but I know some of you run WISPs.
 

gimp

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I'm guessing they won't support it without their hardware, as they cannot "guarantee" the uptime of equipment that doesn't belong to them.
They cannot provide an SLA when the fiber is no longer terminating on their equipment.

Now you may be able to get them to bridge it, so that it doesn't do any of the routing functions.

This is, of course, assuming it's a business line with an SLA.
 

MadJuggla9

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It is a business line. Dark fiber is fixing to be brought directly to our main head end (rather than current PTP hops). The reason I ask is when the Eelectric company runs dark fiber ... I'm looking to try and pay as little as possible to ATT. I have no idea how fiber transports or how to get away from this managed service.

ATT already said they can tap into the new fiber line when its ran and set us up at our primary town for WISP capability. I don't know that I want to keep this managed service even if I remain with ATT. Id rather plug into my equipment. How much work might be involved?

I already know the costs to break our contract, but it may well be worth it.
 

bds1904

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There is no way you can get rid of the ciena 3930. The servce you have is ip transit (vs older atm fiber), at&t will not let you manage your own gateway to their network. Depending on the area and installation the 3930 could be doing qos, bandwidth limiting to your requested speed and also supplies at&t a proper test point in the case of reported packet loss or trouble. That includes a test point in case someone in your area reports trouble. If one subscriber to that product reports trouble, the noc generally looks all over.

Typically the product you have does not go directly from your prem to a co. Typically it goes to a router in a hut or to a device that looks a lot like one of their uverse vrads. From there the transit varies depending on the area. The ethernet point-to-point link is generally established there, not in the co. When that is the case they like having the control.
 

MadJuggla9

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thanks bds1904

Lots of info. They did say I could back out of the managed service and that I would have to supply my own equipment and they would not support troubleshooting. Do you think that means they would still want the ciena on my premises as an in-between to their network?

If my cisco 9000 series has the IPs ... what does the ciena box do other than allow fibre-to-cat5?

I guess I'll worry more about relocating the fiber tap for now. I'm dreading the transport costs for 2-3 miles. I just submitted a dark fibre request to the electric company. Atleast they ackowledge fiber less than a mile from my head end.
 

bds1904

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thanks bds1904

Lots of info. They did say I could back out of the managed service and that I would have to supply my own equipment and they would not support troubleshooting. Do you think that means they would still want the ciena on my premises as an in-between to their network?

If my cisco 9000 series has the IPs ... what does the ciena box do other than allow fibre-to-cat5?

The ciena is a "Service Delivery Switch". In other words, it's your demarc. AT&T is responsible for the configuration of that switch to allow your IP's onto their network. From my experience they don't like giving out any possible proprietary network configuration, which they would be required to do if you wanted to get rid of the ciena. If you are a big enough customer, they might let you, but in the event of an outage YOU will be PULLING TEETH trying to convince anyone that anything but YOUR EQUIPMENT is the problem.

These 2 things IMO are why they have never let me get rid of one:
"Incorporates on-board Y.1564 and RFC 2544 Performance Benchmark testing capabilities, enabling end-to-end SLA verification without a truck roll" & "Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) Carrier Ethernet (CE) 2.0-compliant for E-Line, E-LAN, E-Tree and E-Access"

Those 2 things popped out to me on the spec sheet last time I was looking to consolidate. The first one is the catch. You get rid of the ciena, you get rid of your SLA. Bad idea.

Remember the days of dealing with DSL circuits with a customer owned modem? There wasn't ever anything wrong with the service. The customers modem, customers router or customers IW was ALWAYS the problem right?.:rolleyes: Imagine fighting that battle with a high-dollar fiber connection when you don't have access to the other end.

The cisco 9000 is "yours" right? "Yours" as in you purchased it, have the invoice, took delivery and set it up yourself.
 
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MadJuggla9

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No, it is being leased as is the router in this 'managed' package. $2,000 a month.

I understand a lot more now that you have went into some detail. My only thing is the fiber never seems to glitch. Is it still worth keeping the managed service in the long run?
 

bds1904

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No, it is being leased as is the router in this 'managed' package. $2,000 a month.

I understand a lot more now that you have went into some detail. My only thing is the fiber never seems to glitch. Is it still worth keeping the managed service in the long run?

If the Cisco 9000 is being leased, that's the "managed" part of the service.

I would ditch the managed service and use your own router(s), assuming you (or someone in your networking team) knows EXACTLY what they are doing. The Ciena would stay in place because it is being used as your demarc. Having the ciena there is a positive thing for you as troubleshooting would be simple. Phone call would go like this: "My connection is down, can you see the ciena? No? Send someone out."

If you don't have someone that is an expert with carrier grade routing equipment, don't get rid of the managed service.

I always ask "Do you want to spend money now or spend time later?". In your situation, spending time means downtime, which means mad (paying) customers.
 

MadJuggla9

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I'm pretty sure we are leasing the router and the Ciena box is NOT ours. What all is involved in that Cisco router? Just static routes? Something ATT could tell me without getting fussy?

You guys have been a lot of help!
 

Nicklebon

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What all is involved in that Cisco router? Just static routes? Something ATT could tell me without getting fussy?

You guys have been a lot of help!

I've got an ATT circuit in my lab and we manage the router. The only thing you need to know from att to manage your own router is link IP, your netblock and depending on circuit type, encapsulation. If you need more instruction than that I'd suggest that you continue with a managed router.
 

MadJuggla9

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By link IP do you mean Serial IP (ATTs IP for the WAN and LAN, 12.x.y.z)?

I have a total of 11 gateways but 9 of them are routed on my end of things. I only have traffic (at the router) from a /27 and a /24. Behind those 2 subnets some of my old APs are in router mode with their WAN and LAN IPs both public. It was like that when I helped administer.

What about encapsulation? From what I've read it adds information to frames, but I was a bit winded reading all the details.
 
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