Man Sues Apple for Terminating Account with $25,000 in Purchases

bigdogchris

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According to a complaint filed on Tuesday, Apple user Matthew Price spent nearly $25,000 on content attached to his Apple ID, which was terminated by the company for unknown reasons. The lawsuit targets a clause in Apple's media services terms and conditions, which states a user with a terminated Apple ID cannot access media content that they've purchased. AppleInsider reports: "Apple's unlawful and unconscionable clause as a prohibited de facto liquidated damages provision which is triggered when Apple suspects its customers have breached its Terms and Conditions," the lawsuit reads. Additionally, the complaint claims that users with Apple devices will find their products "substantially diminished in value" if their Apple IDs are terminated, since they won't be able to access Apple services or purchased content.

According to the complaint, the $25,000 worth of media included apps, in-app purchases, programs and platform extensions, and related services. The plaintiff also alleges that Apple prevents users from accessing unused funds attached to an Apple account. Price, for example, had about $7 in iTunes credit. The lawsuit doesn't specify why Price's account was terminated. However, it does claim that Apple shut down the Apple ID "without notice, explanation, policy or process." It goes on to claim that Apple's conduct -- specifically, the clause and resulting terminations -- are "unfair, unlawful, fraudulent, and illegal," and alleges that Apple is in violation of several consumer regulations in California. The lawsuit is seeking class action status, with a Nationwide Class consisting of people in the U.S. who have had their Apple IDs terminated.


SOURCE

I really hope this goes to court and the guy wins. This type of behavior is very anti-consumer and happens all the time. I understand if someone violates and agreement and the company block the user from making new purchases, but they should not block the user from accessing what they paid for. If companies want to argue that you are "licensing" the product and not buying it, then change the button from Buy to License.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I don't know.

If it was a clear violation of the TOS that resulted in the termination of the account, it seems legit.

You have to agree to these terms in order to use the account, so I don't really see what legal leg he has to stand on.

I don't think we know enough about what happened to make that determination.

And yikes. $25k of apps/media? 😳
 

1_rick

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I don't know.

If it was a clear violation of the TOS that resulted in the termination of the account, it seems legit.

You have to agree to these terms in order to use the account, so I don't really see what legal leg he has to stand on.

I don't think we know enough about what happened to make that determination.

And yikes. $25k of apps/media? 😳
The closest brick-and-mortar analogy I can come up with is your son gets caught shoplifting from Best Buy, so they come in and take back the refrigerator, washer, dryer, and cell phones you bought there.

If Apple, Steam, whoever bans you, they should refund all the money they've taken from you.
 

Shoganai

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I agree but no way I would buy a modern appliance let alone from Best Buy
LG = Like Garbage Samsung = SamSucks etc modern appliances are CRAP and actually use more electricity the the older "Inefficient" older ones.
I still have a 12K BTU window rattler from 1984 (it is 2 months older then me!) it blows ICE cubes and when the compressor shuts off (and you knew it did as it shook the entire USA when it does) it still put out cool air for like 3-5 minutes as the evaporator is huge for a 12K unit a modern POS blows out room temp air like 1 second after the compressor shuts off
It uses less then a new one as it runs less due to more thermal inertia due to the thick heavy metal it is made with same with refrigerators the older ones run less as they are better insulated, the new ones are touted as efficent yes efficent at using more electricity as this is the point of the electricity supplier to sell more electricity their whole hidden motive LoL!
What does any of this have to do with the thread?
 

pillagenburn

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According to a complaint filed on Tuesday, Apple user Matthew Price spent nearly $25,000 on content attached to his Apple ID, which was terminated by the company for unknown reasons. The lawsuit targets a clause in Apple's media services terms and conditions, which states a user with a terminated Apple ID cannot access media content that they've purchased. AppleInsider reports: "Apple's unlawful and unconscionable clause as a prohibited de facto liquidated damages provision which is triggered when Apple suspects its customers have breached its Terms and Conditions," the lawsuit reads. Additionally, the complaint claims that users with Apple devices will find their products "substantially diminished in value" if their Apple IDs are terminated, since they won't be able to access Apple services or purchased content.

According to the complaint, the $25,000 worth of media included apps, in-app purchases, programs and platform extensions, and related services. The plaintiff also alleges that Apple prevents users from accessing unused funds attached to an Apple account. Price, for example, had about $7 in iTunes credit. The lawsuit doesn't specify why Price's account was terminated. However, it does claim that Apple shut down the Apple ID "without notice, explanation, policy or process." It goes on to claim that Apple's conduct -- specifically, the clause and resulting terminations -- are "unfair, unlawful, fraudulent, and illegal," and alleges that Apple is in violation of several consumer regulations in California. The lawsuit is seeking class action status, with a Nationwide Class consisting of people in the U.S. who have had their Apple IDs terminated.


SOURCE

I really hope this goes to court and the guy wins. This type of behavior is very anti-consumer and happens all the time. I understand if someone violates and agreement and the company block the user from making new purchases, but they should not block the user from accessing what they paid for. If companies want to argue that you are "licensing" the product and not buying it, then change the button from Buy to License.

That's what he gets for thinking he owns anything in the new normal.

The new normal where the corporate central authority can revoke your access at any moment for any reason or no reason.

I for one welcome to our new technocratic corporate overlords! More bug slurry please?
 

Master_shake_

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That's what he gets for thinking he owns anything in the new normal.

The new normal where the corporate central authority can revoke your access at any moment for any reason or no reason.

I for one welcome to our new technocratic corporate overlords! More bug slurry please?
You will own nothing you will eat the bugs you will be happy.
 

bigdogchris

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I don't know.

If it was a clear violation of the TOS that resulted in the termination of the account, it seems legit.

You have to agree to these terms in order to use the account, so I don't really see what legal leg he has to stand on.

I don't think we know enough about what happened to make that determination.

And yikes. $25k of apps/media? 😳
With as much as things are moving to digital versions, they have to come up with better ways of handling this than to just take away everything you paid for and give you a middle finger. In many cases they don't even have the courtesy to tell you what you did wrong. How can anyone be in favor of that?
 

Dk975

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Buying stuff from the Apple store doesn't mean you own it, you are just renting it. All of this streaming of video and music, IoT devices and appliances, and software as a service is prepping us for The Great Reset when according to their own video, "You will own nothing and be happy". In the coming years leading up to 2030, this will expand to property, cars, appliances and whatever else. I am still trying to wrap my head around how you will rent / subscribe to your clothes. Will they confiscate if you don't pay the rental fee, or will the clothes be smart and self dissolve if you don't pay?
 

Krazy925

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Buying stuff from the Apple store doesn't mean you own it, you are just renting it. All of this streaming of video and music, IoT devices and appliances, and software as a service is prepping us for The Great Reset when according to their own video, "You will own nothing and be happy". In the coming years leading up to 2030, this will expand to property, cars, appliances and whatever else. I am still trying to wrap my head around how you will rent / subscribe to your clothes. Will they confiscate if you don't pay the rental fee, or will the clothes be smart and self dissolve if you don't pay?
Where do you get your weed man?
 

DukenukemX

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This can happen with any digital store front. Steam, google, psn or MS. It is not something specific to Apple. I am all for Apple hate but this is a issue that goes beyond Apple.
I agree but I'll take my weekly Apple hate whenever I can get it. This is the same problem I have with Cloud Gaming but instead of just losing the games, which is bad enough, but you lose the very hardware you depend on to play the games. There needs to be new laws that refund all the app purchases when the account is terminated or banned for all online stores.

BTW, here's more reason to hate Apple. I wonder if Apple will refund the person all that privacy data they took from him as well?

And yikes. $25k of apps/media? 😳
I don't know what's dumber. The $25k worth of apps the person purchased on a mobile device, or the fact he's using an Apple product? Considering how much this one individual has spent on Apple apps/media, you'd think they would happily reactivate his account and continue to receive another $25k from him in the future? That dude is getting an Android phone and switching to a Windows laptop.
 

Aireoth

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Where do you get your weed man?

He isn't wrong though, there are issues with the great reset theory, but it is absolutely in corporate interest to make sure you own as little as possible. That way they can collect fees from your continual use.

Manufacturers do this regularly with planned obsolescence, appliances that last somewhere between 18mo-15yr (when they used to chug on forever), apple updates slowing phones while they release the latest new phone. All non-ownership amounts to is a furtherance of planned obsolecence, only now you just rent the good as a service.

Apple Store, Steam Games, any digital service you don't really own the product, you just have the right to use it in accordance with the TOS.
 

M76

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Where do you get your weed man?
You already don't really own most products. You can use it as long as it is by their rules. If you don't you are cut off, the device disabled or nerfed in function. With everything being connected this is the present, not the future. Look at Tesla, the same kind of "service" coming to every manufacturer. Oh they're happy for you to pay for the car, but for all intents and purposes you are just allowed to use it, since they make every decision about it.
 

Lakados

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Apple recently disclosed they were working with authorities to identify accounts receiving Apple ID cards obtained through scams. I’m not surprised to hear about accounts closing with tens of thousands in purchases on them.
 

DukenukemX

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You already don't really own most products. You can use it as long as it is by their rules. If you don't you are cut off, the device disabled or nerfed in function. With everything being connected this is the present, not the future. Look at Tesla, the same kind of "service" coming to every manufacturer. Oh they're happy for you to pay for the car, but for all intents and purposes you are just allowed to use it, since they make every decision about it.
RegularCarReviews touched on this recently with their Toyota Supra review and they noted the safety features that Toyota would normally give you for free are now locked away behind paywalls. 2016 Tesla Model S had $19k worth of options that already exists in your car. There's already a huge community of Tesla owners who mod their Tesla's to unlock all the features that are locked behind a paywall. Tesla will block you from supercharging your vehicle if you repaired it yourself, and not just Tesla's chargers but all chargers won't let you supercharge. This is why Rich Rebuilds has a problem with Tesla now because they turned off a feature that was in his car.

Apple isn't the only one doing this shit but they do like to remind us that they're dicks about it too.

 

NightReaver

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RegularCarReviews touched on this recently with their Toyota Supra review and they noted the safety features that Toyota would normally give you for free are now locked away behind paywalls. 2016 Tesla Model S had $19k worth of options that already exists in your car. There's already a huge community of Tesla owners who mod their Tesla's to unlock all the features that are locked behind a paywall. Tesla will block you from supercharging your vehicle if you repaired it yourself, and not just Tesla's chargers but all chargers won't let you supercharge. This is why Rich Rebuilds has a problem with Tesla now because they turned off a feature that was in his car.

Apple isn't the only one doing this shit but they do like to remind us that they're dicks about it too.

People will dismiss all of this with "It's just...", "It's only...", and my favorite "You don't really need..."

Inch by inch turns into a mile.
 

Armenius

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RegularCarReviews touched on this recently with their Toyota Supra review and they noted the safety features that Toyota would normally give you for free are now locked away behind paywalls. 2016 Tesla Model S had $19k worth of options that already exists in your car. There's already a huge community of Tesla owners who mod their Tesla's to unlock all the features that are locked behind a paywall. Tesla will block you from supercharging your vehicle if you repaired it yourself, and not just Tesla's chargers but all chargers won't let you supercharge. This is why Rich Rebuilds has a problem with Tesla now because they turned off a feature that was in his car.

Apple isn't the only one doing this shit but they do like to remind us that they're dicks about it too.

And people laughed at the idea of paid car DLC.
 

Master_shake_

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RegularCarReviews touched on this recently with their Toyota Supra review and they noted the safety features that Toyota would normally give you for free are now locked away behind paywalls. 2016 Tesla Model S had $19k worth of options that already exists in your car. There's already a huge community of Tesla owners who mod their Tesla's to unlock all the features that are locked behind a paywall. Tesla will block you from supercharging your vehicle if you repaired it yourself, and not just Tesla's chargers but all chargers won't let you supercharge. This is why Rich Rebuilds has a problem with Tesla now because they turned off a feature that was in his car.

Apple isn't the only one doing this shit but they do like to remind us that they're dicks about it too.

LMAO @ 5:45

That's the exact voice I'd expect to hear say that.
 

HockeyJon

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The closest brick-and-mortar analogy I can come up with is your son gets caught shoplifting from Best Buy, so they come in and take back the refrigerator, washer, dryer, and cell phones you bought there.

If Apple, Steam, whoever bans you, they should refund all the money they've taken from you.

Agreed, and this is why I hate the direction of tech these days. Once we stopped buying physical media, everything has switched from ownership to essentially a license which provides a user the right to use a product, but only at the mercy of the content provider or, more specifically, the distributor of that content. The cloud provides a lot of convenience, but it also greatly increases the control that big tech has on users.
 

Jagger100

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I don't know.

If it was a clear violation of the TOS that resulted in the termination of the account, it seems legit.

You have to agree to these terms in order to use the account, so I don't really see what legal leg he has to stand on.

I don't think we know enough about what happened to make that determination.

And yikes. $25k of apps/media? 😳
Not if the TOS that was violated was introduced after some/most/all the purchases. A consumer cannot predict the future. Also the nebulous and inconsistent enforcement of these TOS means they can't be taken seriously.

I think a full refund is probably adequate remedy though.
 

HockeyJon

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With as much as things are moving to digital versions, they have to come up with better ways of handling this than to just take away everything you paid for and give you a middle finger. In many cases they don't even have the courtesy to tell you what you did wrong. How can anyone be in favor of that?

Who’s going to step in? Politicians? The guys who can barely turn on a computer and are addicted to sweet, sweet lobbyist money from tech companies?
 

DejaWiz

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Who’s going to step in? Politicians? The guys who can barely turn on a computer and are addicted to sweet, sweet lobbyist money from tech companies?

Exactly this. The lobbyist and campaign donation money is *why* corporatist policies like this are allowed to exist.

It does two things:
1. Locks a consumer into a given tech company's ecosystem.
2. Removes all recourse from the consumers.

I hope this guy wins his suit.
 

rinaldo00

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vegeta535

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Who’s going to step in? Politicians? The guys who can barely turn on a computer and are addicted to sweet, sweet lobbyist money from tech companies?
And the young dumbass politician coming now embrace this cause they are a bunch of lazy fucks that want convince over anything.
 

rinaldo00

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Don't forget iTunes has been around since 2001. $25K might sound like a lot but over 20 years it's just a few music and movie purchases a week.
Try spending all that in 3 years

"Price opened his Apple account in January 2018"

edit: That was from the article the lawsuit says this

"At all times relevant hereto, Mr. Price has owned an iPhone, iPad, and MacBook Pro. Since January 8, 2015, he has purchased $24,590.05 in Services and Content through Apple, using a single Apple ID, for use on his Apple devices"
 
Last edited:

bigdogchris

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Another article on this
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...-lawsuit-over-its-definition-of-the-word-buy/

I love this line

Apple countered by arguing that “no reasonable consumer would believe” that content purchased through iTunes would be available on the platform indefinitely

I think Apple is about to discover that the world is full of unreasonable people.
I also like this one, similar to the argument made earlier here ...

“Just like Best Buy cannot come into a person’s home to repossess the movie DVD that such person purchased from it, [Apple] should not be able to remove digital content from its customers’ Purchased folders,” the suit says.
 

Krazy925

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So would he! :ROFLMAO: This is going to popcorn worthy...
Ehhhh maybe. Just reminds me of a child who gets in trouble. I don’t know what I did.

I’m fairly certain Apple didn’t just ban a random user. Maybe Tim Cook woke up though and decided he just needed one less whale on his platform.

I don’t understand someone spending $25k but his needs =/= mine.
 

NIZMOZ

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I agree but no way I would buy a modern appliance let alone from Best Buy
LG = Like Garbage Samsung = SamSucks etc modern appliances are CRAP and actually use more electricity the the older "Inefficient" older ones.
I still have a 12K BTU window rattler from 1984 (it is 2 months older then me!) it blows ICE cubes and when the compressor shuts off (and you knew it did as it shook the entire USA when it does) it still put out cool air for like 3-5 minutes as the evaporator is huge for a 12K unit a modern POS blows out room temp air like 1 second after the compressor shuts off
It uses less then a new one as it runs less due to more thermal inertia due to the thick heavy metal it is made with same with refrigerators the older ones run less as they are better insulated, the new ones are touted as efficent yes efficent at using more electricity as this is the point of the electricity supplier to sell more electricity their whole hidden motive LoL!
Not sure what this has to do with this thread....LG is much better than Samsung. Samsung junk have all broken on me within 2 years of purchase. LG stuff seems to last as I have yet to have anything LG fail.
 

Krazy925

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He isn't wrong though, there are issues with the great reset theory, but it is absolutely in corporate interest to make sure you own as little as possible. That way they can collect fees from your continual use.

Manufacturers do this regularly with planned obsolescence, appliances that last somewhere between 18mo-15yr (when they used to chug on forever), apple updates slowing phones while they release the latest new phone. All non-ownership amounts to is a furtherance of planned obsolecence, only now you just rent the good as a service.

Apple Store, Steam Games, any digital service you don't really own the product, you just have the right to use it in accordance with the TOS.
I’ve got to be honest. I’ve owned a lot of phones and used several daily for a long time. If the phones are slowing down the non user serviceable battery definitely becomes a problem before the slowdown does. I generally use suction cups and a heat gun and change all phones battery once ~3 years. They generally last another 18 months to 2 years. None of my old phones lasted that long. When I had to switch from dual band to tri band I ended up throwing away a lot of old phones.
I don’t rent video games on console. I buy the disc or cart (PS5/Xbox one/switch). With PC gaming it became untenable to continue buying disc based content because it wasn’t even on the disc after a while. The trade off there is that I can get 10 games for $10-15 on a regular basis. I can’t remember the last PC game I bought at launch.
Same with movies and music. Netflix charges me $12 to give me a catalog much larger than I could put together. Same with Spotify.
I don’t think I’ve ever bought a song on iTunes or a movie through any of the many digital ‘ownership’ services. I’m from the Napster generation— if I want something hard to find I’ll source it through other means.

What caused this to happen is enough people decided it was good enough. I wasn’t present at the meeting though


You already don't really own most products. You can use it as long as it is by their rules. If you don't you are cut off, the device disabled or nerfed in function. With everything being connected this is the present, not the future. Look at Tesla, the same kind of "service" coming to every manufacturer. Oh they're happy for you to pay for the car, but for all intents and purposes you are just allowed to use it, since they make every decision about it.
I buy all my books in paper format. I buy my console games on disc. I can’t even remember the last time my Xbox was on the live service.
Teslas probably not a good example here as you still have the car— but with my new Toyota several years ago it didn’t have google/CarPlay enabled but I did with a USB update. The one example everyone points to of Tesla was corrected and fully rectified. Just like Apple if this problem was hugely widespread— you’d hear about it. I still won’t own a Tesla though.
I’d still like to know what part of the TOS this guy broke. Apple needs to get a little more bad press than I think we’ll either find out it’s like the above Tesla situation OR it’s because he did something flagrant and got banned.

Rather than ROBBLE ROBBLE ROBBLE about it I’ll await more info. One thing we can agree on though (myself and the lawyer, fairly certain most here) is that not having the App Store definitely diminishes the value of the phone for him as a user.
 

Thatguybil

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This can happen with any digital store front. Steam, google, psn or MS. It is not something specific to Apple. I am all for Apple hate but this is a issue that goes beyond Apple.
Much like right to repair, I think this is something that we can get bipartisan agreement that content that you purchase online should be persistent or should cause a refund.
 

Vermillion

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And people wonder I've been slowly moving to self-hosting everything. You can't trust anybody to maintain YOUR data in any form. The only way to keep it safe is to do it yourself.

Shit like this is also why people will simply go to other means to get their content.
 

1_rick

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I agree but no way I would buy a modern appliance let alone from Best Buy
Not to be a jerk, but that's irrelevant. If you don't like that example, it's like buyng a $BRAND[1] car in cash, and then then having $BRAND take the car away because your drivers' license expired.

[1] Pick a marque you like, don't get derailed over trivia.
 
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