Man Starts “Gunbook” after Gun-Loving Friends Get Kicked Off Facebook

[DigitalisAkujin]

Nothing I posted was bullshit, they are facts. You are correct private sales are a thing and the level of effort a seller goes through can vary.

Claiming that someone has to do something difficult when in-fact they can choose to do something easy instead is rhetorical bullshit of the highest order.

 

[NoOther]

I'm not sure why the burden of providing statistics is on me. You will never change your mind. it is common knowledge that year after year there are more and more school shootings to the point where a parent has a higher than zero chance of finding their kids dead from a school shooting in the USA versus the majority of "first world" who all do not have this problem. It is literally unheard of in most places on Earth that a young adult walks into a school and shoots it up.

Meanwhile in private homes the mere presence of a firearm makes people use it in situations where they really should not in the heat of the moment. (Psst. That's when the "responsible" gun owner gets shot by his drunk wife. Or vice versa)

What is my mind that I am not changing? The burden is absolutely on you. You are the one making the claim. You are the one saying it is a problem. Therefore, you are the one that has to prove it. Seriously, wtf is up with people these days that think they can make drive by half-assed claims with zero proof and then say it is on other people to provide facts?

Also, please show me the year after year increase in school shootings per capita? I believe the argument you are actually looking for is that they are more deadly.

Spoiler

They are not more frequent but they are more deadly.

And some even refute that.

And there are many things that are unheard of in many parts of the world, like plumbing. That doesn't make a good argument.

 

[thesmokingman]

I heard on NPR that school shootings are actually down. We just hear about them a lot more.

 

[Silentbob343]

Claiming that someone has to do something difficult when in-fact they can choose to do something easy instead is rhetorical bullshit of the highest order.

That point was not in my initial post, I didn't bring private party sales in to the discussion as I honestly don't think about private party sales all too often. I didn't post bullshit and you can't even acknowledge it...now you are doubling down on.

In my post responding to yours on the topic of private party sales I posted options for private party sales and linked to a site with facts regarding state laws for private party sales. I even acknowledged that the current process isn't a great system and would be would be open to submitting NICS for private sales. I am trying to have a polite discourse and don't appreciate you trying assign malice/dishonesty where there is none.

 

[inerlogic]

Hey Kyle, i'll see your AR....



and raise you an AKM.

 

[thebufenator]

Hey Kyle, i'll see your AR....

View attachment 62065

and raise you an AKM.

View attachment 62066

Put that AKM back in the trashcan where it belongs.

/ikid

 

[noko]

Where are the gun videos in this thread??? Maybe this one was taken at Kyle's place,

 

[Aireoth]

This issue is so stupid.

1. Gun violence is a mental health issue, not a weapon issue, like all violence.
2. There are already too many guns in circulation, both legal and illegal, in the US. (Stopping or restricting sales now will have minimal overall impact)
3. All regulation will do is embolden the black market.


School shooting victims are a drastic minority of the student population, approximately 50M students across all grades, meaning that 16 people shot is an incredibly small percentage, I posted a more detailed breakdown of this elsewhere, but even totaling all school shootings over a decade or more, your still talking statistically insignificant numbers. This is not to deny the tragedy, loss, hopelessness or fear of the victims of such violence, but governance should not be about one persons feelings, valid or not, but about how best to spend limited resources to reach the most people and have the biggest impact.

Government cash flow is not infinite, as many of you like to bitch about taxes, but that is where your nation's purchasing power is derived. If people really wanted to think about the children, they'd be less concerned with school shootings, and more concerned with unintentional injury, congenital anomalies, suicide, heart disease, etc.

People love to get caught up in the flash while ignoring the fire.

 

[thebufenator]

Hey man, banning drugs worked so well, let's ban guns too.

 

[Jagger100]

Might be careful there. Buddhists are not so peace loving, in fact youre religion has many genocidal madmen who hate non Buddhists. In Myanmar anyway, according to the media, UN and other of those sorts. I'm a bit skeptical myself of that characterization. Perhaps we should ban Buddhists from social media to be safe, for now anyway.

What happened to the Buddists is conveniently left out of those stories.

 

[dvsman]

As I get older, I have realized there are a few things I never talk about to my co-workers / others that I meet in my professional life in DC.

Politics, religion, guns / gun politics and for entirely different reasons - dungeons and dragons :-D

 

[Axiomatic]

For me, it was never about the guns. I was born and raised in Texas so that's normal to me. But some of these gun "nuts" and their toxic masculinity? Fuck that. I'd rather just fight them with fists than listen to some of their inane bullshit.

 

[Jagger100]

For me, it was never about the guns. I was born and raised in Texas so that's normal to me. But some of these gun "nuts" and their toxic masculinity? Fuck that. I'd rather just fight them with fists than listen to some of their inane bullshit.

You should look at the murder rates for men who grew up with the benefit of 'toxic masculinity' vs. those who were spared the effects. I'll cut to the chase, Single Mothers raise the most killers per capita.

 

[Dullard]

Gun ownership should be tougher than getting a drivers license. We need a rigorous testing and training system with a periodic re-evaluation. If you want to own a gun, you start off with a basic long gun training course where you learn proper handling, cleaning and securing of your gun. You then must either submit proof of x amount of time on a range (with a provisional permit) or shooting with a licensed owner. Then following a comprehensive test of basic marksmanship, maintenance and written questions, you get your license. If you want a hand gun, that's whole separate license. I can't guarantee if will root out every psycho, because plenty of turds manage to wash through basic training, but it would at least establish some baseline competence that seems to be lacking in a lot of gun owners. I love when people point to Switzerland as an example because every male in Switzerland goes through basic training and annual re-certification, something a lot of gun owners seem reluctant to do.

Good idea. I'll wager a whole lot more school age kids die each year from traffic accidents than from guns, let's raise the legal driving age to 21 - you know, to keep the kids safe.

 

[NickM]

Wanna know how all this written above is complete bullshit gun owners like to tell themselves?

Go to any gun show and you can get an AK47 for a few hundred bucks from a private individual using the "personal sale" loop hole. No background check. No ID.

When you pull up to a computer convention next to a gun show and you see some 15 year old kid walking around with AK47 you'll realize how unsafe you really are from the nut jobs.

I have 2 words for you.
Bull and Shit.
Put them together, and you have that mental diarrhea that you just spewed.
There are NO 200 dollar AK type weapons at a gunshow-semi only or, in your assertion, SELECT FIRE (that is what an AK47 is).
So, care to put forth some HONEST discourse, or do you have more outright lies that you would like to put forth.
Side note for ya-full auto weapons of ALL types are available for citizens as only 1986 and older.
This is a limited pool and this drives the cost WAY up.
As posted earlier, an M16 is 30K, IF your state of residency even allows class 3.
AK pattern stuff is in the same region price wise.
You might be able to find some of the cheap subguns (MAC10/11) for sub 10K if you really look around and are patient.
Now that you found it, congrats! Now you need to submit a Form 4 to the ATF, your 200 dollar tax stamp, fingerprints, and a lot of other info and wait for 6-18 months for an approver to crawl up your backside and verify that you are allowed to have this weapon your self.
Not regulated, my ass.

 

[AliceCooper]

Sure you do. Its almost heresy to say anything against everyone having deadly force in their pocket.

One problem I have, is that quite I'm willing to fight you, anyone who needs to be fought with, if it comes to that, but I will not carry a gun. I like a level playing field and far less people will die, like in my country.

Talking to an old friend the other day and he was remarking that he has to be more careful as everyone has knives and guns now. We agreed cowardice is taking over the world. He 6' 6" and was a major force when he was younger.

So what happens when someone who isn't a "major force" are attacked by someone who is a "major force"? Not a very level playing field and last I remember, hands can be extremely deadly. Carrying is not cowardice, it's using the tools at your disposal to ensure you are properly protected from any threat to your life.

 

[Ranulfo]

Ranulfo a gun isn't a toy, if you think brandishing a gun to "dissuade" someone from attacking you is a proper use of a gun, you are a classic case of someone that needs basic training. Even in the "wild west" men were not allowed to carry guns in town. You either left your gun at home or handed it in when you entered the town. Seriously man up and stop being scared of shadows, there a lot scarier places in the world than America and people in those places seem to manage just fine.

Define brandishing for me. Even just in your state. It varies from place to place. Search for "concealed carry printing laws" and be amazed. Did someone see your concealed carry pistol when you bent over in the store? You just lost your permit privileges if you get reported. Just brushing back my coat to show my holster to a guy asking me for "light" as he gets very very close and seems sketchy to me could be viewed as brandishing, and yes seeing that you are armed will dissuade people if your appearance or demeanor doesn't tell them to look for an easier target. Not every person you meet on the street is all there or sane. Also, I'm not sure where you've been in America but there are many places where I wouldn't go without a gun, certainly not these days. Go look up violent crime rates by county in the USA, in some cases it is down to cities or neighborhoods as to who commits the most violent crimes.

I’ve never needed to ‘brandish’ a gun. I’ve had to punch a couple of people in the mouth and guy tried to stab me with a screwdriver and got his head bounced off the concrete for his trouble. With guns at least one of those would have been a death. You need guns because people have guns. It’s such a circular stupid fucking thing. Even just the easy suicide, so pointless. I know for a fact that if I’d gotten a handgun I would have killed my self. But yet I’m alive, successful, giving people jobs and paying taxes.

And if the screwdriver guy had stabbed you? Not everyone is lucky or bigger than their attacker. As for your personal issues and fears of self harm, how is that everyone's problem? Should we greatly restrict alcohol if I fear getting too drunk and harming myself or others because I can't stop drinking? I get flack for being damn near a teetotaler in my life but I don't call for new prohibition laws or background checks for buying booze. I just don't drink much. How many people die a year due to alcohol abuse, drunk driving, drunken fights, drunken falls down stairs etc.? My state about ten years ago made it a requirement to get a doctor's prescription for sudafed type cold medicine. It at least tripled the price and made it a pain in the ass to get. You can over the counter by the fake stuff that works for some or you buy one of the many vitamin c based remedies. That or you drive across the border if you live near another state and buy it from behind the pharmacy counter there following just the fed law restrictions of an allowed monthly amount. The price of meth has not dropped in my state according to the last study I read. But it will cost me over $100 to get some sudafed for a bad cold.

 

[Silentbob343]

Define brandishing for me. Even just in your state. It varies from place to place. Search for "concealed carry printing laws" and be amazed. Did someone see your concealed carry pistol when you bent over in the store? You just lost your permit privileges if you get reported. Just brushing back my coat to show my holster to a guy asking me for "light" as he gets very very close and seems sketchy to me could be viewed as brandishing, and yes seeing that you are armed will dissuade people if your appearance or demeanor doesn't tell them to look for an easier target. Not every person you meet on the street is all there or sane. Also, I'm not sure where you've been in America but there are many places where I wouldn't go without a gun, certainly not these days. Go look up violent crime rates by county in the USA, in some cases it is down to cities or neighborhoods as to who commits the most violent crimes.

Some states don't even have a brandishing offense, some go straight to felony assault.

And if the screwdriver guy had stabbed you? Not everyone is lucky or bigger than their attacker. As for your personal issues and fears of self harm, how is that everyone's problem? Should we greatly restrict alcohol if I fear getting too drunk and harming myself or others because I can't stop drinking?....

This. You can't know what someone's intent is when they attack. Are they going to hit you once and stop, maybe "only" knock you unconscious, what happens if they choke you and don't let go? Is there more than one attacker? Were you jumped or did you know you were about to be attacked and could prepare? Why are you even going to assume all these risks? Sorry, as I've gotten older and realized that as resilient as the human body can be it can also be delicate. A wrong hit and you can be blinded, disabled, or worse..dead.

 

[big_aug]

Wanna know how all this written above is complete bullshit gun owners like to tell themselves?

Go to any gun show and you can get an AK47 for a few hundred bucks from a private individual using the "personal sale" loop hole. No background check. No ID.

When you pull up to a computer convention next to a gun show and you see some 15 year old kid walking around with AK47 you'll realize how unsafe you really are from the nut jobs.

This is how you know someone doesn't know anything about guns. You can buy an AK47 or an AR15 but they're semi automatic guns. People don't fuck around with class III and NFA items. They cost a lot and you have to wait forever. There might be a black market for automatic weapons, but it isn't gun shows

If more people bought guns and had experience with them, we'd be less likely to have these arguments. I'm in the "guns are awesome canp" now but I'm not in the "walk into cabela's and walk out with an ar15 in 10 minutes" camp or the "meet some guy off armslist and buy a gun in 5 minutes" camp.

The right to bear arms isn't infringed by adjusting the way we purchase, sell, and trade guns. You still get to own just about whatever you want. What we are allowed to own should not be changed. The way we acquire those guns probably needs to be adjusted. I'm strictly against the outright banning of anything at this point except automatics and anything that tries to get around it. AR15s, high capacity, etc all stay.

 

[big_aug]

Also, you people do realize you dont get to just shoot someone that punches you right? Self defense doesn't work that way. Guns are only allowed to be used in self defense. You break the law by shooting someone and claiming self defense is your only actual defense. If you shoot someone who is punching you, there's a good chance that isnt going to fly because you've used deadly force against non-deadly force.

That's especially true in Ohio where the burden of proof lies on the person claiming self defense. That's insane and I never knew it was a thing until I took my CHL class. Only Ohio is stupid like that though

 

[Riccochet]

Also, you people do realize you dont get to just shoot someone that punches you right? Self defense doesn't work that way. Guns are only allowed to be used in self defense. You break the law by shooting someone and self defense is your only actual defense. If you shoot someone who is punching you, there's a good chance that ismt going to fly because you've used deadly force against non-deadly force.

That's especially true in Ohio where the burden of proof lies on the person claiming self defense. That's insane and I never knew it was a thing until I took my CHL class. Only Ohio is stupid like that though

You can use lethal force with the threat of great bodily harm or death. I have pins holding my eye socket together. One good punch and it's going to shatter sending those pins who knows where, probably taking out my eye or killing me. That's great bodily harm or death.

Elderly people, for instance, can be killed with one punch.

Everyone's situation is different.

 

[big_aug]

You can use lethal force with the threat of great bodily harm or death. I have pins holding my eye socket together. One good punch and it's going to shatter sending those pins who knows where, probably taking out my eye or killing me. That's great bodily harm or death.

Elderly people, for instance, can be killed with one punch.

Everyone's situation is different.

That's true. And that's how its looked at when deciding if it was self defense or not. There is a lot that goes into it. When I took my CHL class, you could see that half of the people in there were too stupid to understand any of it (unfortunately). Ohio is much worse than any where else. It's the only state that places burden on the individual claiming self defense. I didnt actually want to carry a gun (i wanted to just be safe and make sure I could have loaded magazines in my car going to the range and not get nailed or something stupid), but after an attorney talked to us there, I had no desire whatsoever to carry a gun in Ohio.

 

[Silentbob343]

That's true. And that's how its looked at when deciding if it was self defense or not. There is a lot that goes into it. When I took my CHL class, you could see that half of the people in there were too stupid to understand any of it (unfortunately). Ohio is much worse than any where else. It's the only state that places burden on the individual claiming self defense. I didnt actually want to carry a gun (i wanted to just be safe and make sure I could have loaded magazines in my car going to the range and not get nailed or something stupid), but after an attorney talked to us there, I had no desire whatsoever to carry a gun in Ohio.

This is a great point and I recommend anyone that is thinking of carrying, or simply owning, to take a class with an attorney if possible.

 

[Riccochet]

This is a great point and I recommend anyone that is thinking of carrying, or simply owning, to take a class with an attorney if possible.

Anyone that plans on carrying or using a firearm as a home defense weapon should have a retainer on a criminal defense lawyer that is knowledgeable in self defense and firearms laws.

 

[jardows]

No one is infringing on your right to own firearms. I simply do not think the "personal sale" rule is good to keep around. You should not be able to sell your gun to anyone but a dealer or gun buy back. This is why you will all eventually lose way more of your rights. These kids are gonna end up being lifetime democrats cause of these insane rules.

The issue with "personal sale" is this - the Federal government cannot legally regulate the posession of firearms, as that would be an infringement on "keep and bear arms." So to regulate firearms, they invoked the commerce clause, and regulated the business of firearms. That is why the NFA originallly fell under the department of Treasury code.

Because private transactions are not considered commerce, the US government does not have the authorization to regulate such transaction, thus the reason there is no federal requirements for background checks, etc., for private transfers.

On a more detailed level, if there was that kind of "personal sale" regulation, it would mean that you couldn't loan your rifle to your friend to go hunting, as that would be a "transfer" of a firearm, and you would legally be required to go to a dealer to transfer to your friend for the hunt, and when he gets back, go to the dealer again and process another transfer to take it back. That is what happened in Colorado when they passed the "universal background check" law.

 

[katanaD]

Where are the gun videos in this thread??? Maybe this one was taken at Kyle's place,

LOL.. that video made me chuckle

 

[stealthballer123]

gun nuts will never care how many people die as long as they get to hold on to their gun shaped penis extensions.
The most scared and pathetic cohort in this nation. You loonies are fucking up this country and you refuse to accept responsibility for it.

 

[NickM]

gun nuts will never care how many people die as long as they get to hold on to their gun shaped penis extensions.
The most scared and pathetic cohort in this nation. You loonies are fucking up this country and you refuse to accept responsibility for it.

Oh really?
And what have my firearms done?
Absolutely NOTHING without my holding and directing their aim.
Only with firearms is the hue and cry to punish everyone that DIDN'T do it.
We have nothing whatsoever to do with "fucking up this country".
Pretty sure that one rests squarely on the widespread concept that personal responsibility means nothing, and momma govt will cure all ills.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

gun nuts will never care how many people die as long as they get to hold on to their gun shaped penis extensions.
The most scared and pathetic cohort in this nation. You loonies are fucking up this country and you refuse to accept responsibility for it.

Immature extreme no compromise statements like this are what is fucking up this country. Gun owners the one ones who actually accept and understand what "personal responsibility" is. People who make statements like this, very clearly need to get out a dictionary. Right now it looks like you need to grow up a little bit before jumping into an adult conversation because statements like that serve no purpose other than to be inflammatory.

 

[Flogger23m]

This is how you know someone doesn't know anything about guns. You can buy an AK47 or an AR15 but they're semi automatic guns. People don't fuck around with class III and NFA items. They cost a lot and you have to wait forever. There might be a black market for automatic weapons, but it isn't gun shows

If more people bought guns and had experience with them, we'd be less likely to have these arguments. I'm in the "guns are awesome canp" now but I'm not in the "walk into cabela's and walk out with an ar15 in 10 minutes" camp or the "meet some guy off armslist and buy a gun in 5 minutes" camp.

The right to bear arms isn't infringed by adjusting the way we purchase, sell, and trade guns. You still get to own just about whatever you want. What we are allowed to own should not be changed. The way we acquire those guns probably needs to be adjusted. I'm strictly against the outright banning of anything at this point except automatics and anything that tries to get around it. AR15s, high capacity, etc all stay.

I think (most) people know that automatic weapons are heavily restricted. But yeah the "gun show loophole" isn't a loophole but was intentional, and isn't exclusive to gunshows either. They are merely private sales between individuals. The media makes it seem as if a dealer can sell without the paperwork at a gunshow which is obviously false. But if a guy brings 3-5 of their own weapons to sell or trade they obviously don't need to spend the thousands of dollars and months to set up an FFL business. Imagine if you were moving to a smaller house, found a good deal on 3-5 guns and needed to make room in your safe. Do you really want to prevent someone from quickly selling their extra firearms quickly?

 

[motomonkey]

gun nuts will never care how many people die as long as they get to hold on to their gun shaped penis extensions.
The most scared and pathetic cohort in this nation. You loonies are fucking up this country and you refuse to accept responsibility for it.

I was going to reply with a well thought out rebuttal to your childish, ignorant statements regarding gun owners, but realized it would be wasted. You don’t have the intelligence or desire to understand anyway. So instead, I’ll just leave this for you.

 

[AliceCooper]

gun nuts will never care how many people die as long as they get to hold on to their gun shaped penis extensions.
The most scared and pathetic cohort in this nation. You loonies are fucking up this country and you refuse to accept responsibility for it.

I'll ignore the immaturity in your post and attempt to educate you a little bit. Most of these shootings happen in "gun free zones", which to a law abiding citizen means he/she will not take their gun into that place to abide by said law or rule put in place by that establishment. Law abiding citizens. Criminals don't give a rats rear end about the law. Murder is illegal and they do it. Where there is a will, there is a way. Cocaine and other drugs are illegal in the US, yet people get their hands on it all the time. What do you think will happen when all of these weapons are banned and are illegal to posess? The LAW ABIDING citizens will be the ones getting disarmed while the criminals who don't give a crap about the law will have them.

 

[Silentbob343]

gun nuts will never care how many people die as long as they get to hold on to their gun shaped penis extensions.
The most scared and pathetic cohort in this nation. You loonies are fucking up this country and you refuse to accept responsibility for it.

Come on...I think most have been pretty level headed in this thread. If you have an argument or stance you should be able to communicate it in a non-polarizing manner.

You claim gun owners are fucking up this country. Ok, how?

Guys, don't fight fire with fire and try not to engage in partisanship.

 

[big_aug]

Those types of responses are the scary thing.

Same as the people saying it's time to start shooting. These extreme people on both sides are going to ruin everything for all of us.

I'm buying up all kinds of shit just in case.

 

[Ranulfo]

On a more detailed level, if there was that kind of "personal sale" regulation, it would mean that you couldn't loan your rifle to your friend to go hunting, as that would be a "transfer" of a firearm, and you would legally be required to go to a dealer to transfer to your friend for the hunt, and when he gets back, go to the dealer again and process another transfer to take it back. That is what happened in Colorado when they passed the "universal background check" law.

The same in Oregon just a couple of years ago. Oregon had closed the "gun show loophole" back in the late 90s too. The law is vague enough that it ends up being with the discretion of the arresting police and DA on charges. Your family is exempt but not adult children, maybe? Its ok at the range to lend a gun out but not on a hunt? Who knows? Its up to the whims of the state government at the time. There was a pastor (an ex-lawyer no less) who publicly gave up an ar-15 he won in a raffle from a girls sports team. He was on record making statements to the media that he gave the gun to a friend to be disposed of, without going through a background check for the "transfer of possession". People called for an investigation so they sent the state police in. After almost a year they quietly dropped the case, despite the fact that the man had openly violated their new universal background check law.

 

[PecosRiverM]

gun nuts will never care how many people die as long as they get to hold on to their gun shaped penis extensions.
The most scared and pathetic cohort in this nation. You loonies are fucking up this country and you refuse to accept responsibility for it.

Spoken like someone without a factual argument.

 

[Extra-Titanian]

Sure you do. Its almost heresy to say anything against everyone having deadly force in their pocket.

One problem I have, is that quite I'm willing to fight you, anyone who needs to be fought with, if it comes to that, but I will not carry a gun. I like a level playing field and far less people will die, like in my country.

Talking to an old friend the other day and he was remarking that he has to be more careful as everyone has knives and guns now. We agreed cowardice is taking over the world. He 6' 6" and was a major force when he was younger.

And yet I'm left to wonder about all the people smaller than him that he used to smack around as "a major force"...