Man, Conroe is kicking our ,,,,,,,, I feel sooo sad now.

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Asian Dub Foundation

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Obi_Kwiet said:
What most people don't realize is that the Netburst architecture of the P4's was crap. It was supposed to hit 10GHz, but it got stuck at 3. Intel hasn't even been competing with AMD since the A64, they've just been milking OEM market. Intel has finally released a next gen CPU. AMD's next gen CPU has not been released yet. This like the Nvidia fan boys saying "OMQ ATI is pwned! The 7800GTX is so much better than the X850XT PE!!" AMD's had three years to saturate the enthusiast market, and now Intel with have almost year to gain it's reputation back, until AMD releases a competing CPU. AM2 CPU's aren't even called new names. They just support DDR2. Big whoop. That's not a new product line, that's DDR2 support.

To all the people say, 'Ha ha Intel has pwned the AMD fan boys lol." shut up. You are fan boys and the fact that you can't see that makes it even more sad. Seriously, is everyone here 12? I'd have figured that being 16, I would be less mature than most other people here. :rolleyes:

well said *cheers*
 

dotK

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Obi_Kwiet said:
What most people don't realize is that the Netburst architecture of the P4's was crap. It was supposed to hit 10GHz, but it got stuck at 3. Intel hasn't even been competing with AMD since the A64, they've just been milking OEM market. Intel has finally released a next gen CPU. AMD's next gen CPU has not been released yet. This like the Nvidia fan boys saying "OMQ ATI is pwned! The 7800GTX is so much better than the X850XT PE!!" AMD's had three years to saturate the enthusiast market, and now Intel with have almost year to gain it's reputation back, until AMD releases a competing CPU. AM2 CPU's aren't even called new names. They just support DDR2. Big whoop. That's not a new product line, that's DDR2 support.

To all the people say, 'Ha ha Intel has pwned the AMD fan boys lol." shut up. You are fan boys and the fact that you can't see that makes it even more sad. Seriously, is everyone here 12? I'd have figured that being 16, I would be less mature than most other people here. :rolleyes:
When you go to buy a CPU in August, you will be face with 2 options for the latest and greatest - Conroe or AM2. You can make up whatever you want to, but the fact of the matter is that these CPUs will be competing against each other. People are not going to care what generation the CPU is, the only thing that matters is what's available when they plan on buying. So, just because the AM2 isn't a true "next-gen" CPU doesn't mean it's unfair to compare it to the Conroe. What's fair is comparing technology from one company available today to technology from another company available today.

And if the 7800 GTX was released well before the X1900 at a price significantly below the X850 then calls of "ATI IS PWNED" wouldn't be unwarranted.
 

Least

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dotK said:
When you go to buy a CPU in August, you will be face with 2 options for the latest and greatest - Conroe or AM2. You can make up whatever you want to, but the fact of the matter is that these CPUs will be competing against each other. People are not going to care what generation the CPU is, the only thing that matters is what's available when they plan on buying. So, just because the AM2 isn't a true "next-gen" CPU doesn't mean it's unfair to compare it to the Conroe. What's fair is comparing technology from one company available today to technology from another company available today.

And if the 7800 GTX was released well before the X1900 at a price significantly below the X850 then calls of "ATI IS PWNED" wouldn't be unwarranted.

true, then again.... the xbox360 is available right now. Sony and Nintendo only have gamecube and ps2. I don't see many people comparing the xbox360 to the ps2 or the gamecube. You can find similar analogies in other industries too.

That said, I don't think anyone expects AM2 to perform better than Conroe. It is unfair to "compare" it to Conroe in that aspect. That doesn't mean I expect people to buy AM2 when conroe comes along, it means that yes, conroe at that point will be a better buy performance wise. Then again, allow me to reiterate: No one expects AM2 to outperform Conroe. Period.
 

Mackintire

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AMD is not going to be destroyed.
AMD is going nowhere in the meantime

Conroe will will the performance crown untill K8L
AMD is almost ready with 300mm wafers, which will allow them to make more processors.
AMD is almost ready to sell 65mn Athlon 64s, which can do 2 things. One they will allow for the Athlon 64 to clock up to 3.4 Ghz and two it will allow them to produce more chips on the 300mm wafers.

This translates into the following:

It will be cheaper to make the current chips already sold.
It will be possible to increase clock speeds to 3.4Ghz with a 100 watt TPD
It will be possible to make chips clocked up to 3.0Ghz with a 65watt TPD
So will AMD be able to make the fastest chip against conroe? probably not.

I 've seen benchmarks of a 3.2Ghz Conroe with a 1333mhz bus. AMD would need a 3.6ghz chip to beat it and then ONLY in some circumstances.

The light at the end of the tunnel is the K8L core in dual and quad core versions.
A 20-25% increase in IPS will make is very competitive to what intel has up its sleeves.

Flame on,

Mackintire
 

(cf)Eclipse

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dotK said:
When you go to buy a CPU in August, you will be face with 2 options for the latest and greatest - Conroe or AM2.
:confused:

one is a socket, the other is a core. i've said it time and time again, stop comparing the two
 

viper650

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conroe = intels 8th generation chip

a64 = amd's 8th generation chip

i fail to see the problem here, amd was ahead of intel with a64, now intels 8th defuckingstroys amd's 8th. it will probably switch when amd releases gen 9.
 

Hito Bahadur

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viper650 said:
conroe = intels 8th generation chip

a64 = amd's 8th generation chip

i fail to see the problem here, amd was ahead of intel with a64, now intels 8th defuckingstroys amd's 8th. it will probably switch when amd releases gen 9.

So what you are saying is that Conroe just came out 2 years too late.
 

Donnie27

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(cf)Eclipse said:
:confused:

one is a socket, the other is a core. i've said it time and time again, stop comparing the two

Missed also was the AMD Guy lying about Intel being *far behind them with 64bit. Intel will have had much more time using 64bit than AMD at 65nm and he tried to make it seem similar. Like; AMD would follow with 65nm in or about the same time Intel would follow them with 64bit. Dewd, everyone knew about "Yamhill", comeon. :rolleyes:
 

nobody_here

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(cf)Eclipse said:
:confused:

one is a socket, the other is a core. i've said it time and time again, stop comparing the two

sigh....is it really that big a deal?

the wordage may be wrong, but the meaning behind it is correct

everybody knows what the poster was saying, no need to pick it apart, call it Conroe, Core Duo....whatever you like, it's fast

call it AM2, K8?, A64, whatever, everybody knows what's what, nobody cares if he was technically correct
 

Asian Dub Foundation

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nobody_here said:
sigh....is it really that big a deal?

the wordage may be wrong, but the meaning behind it is correct

everybody knows what the poster was saying, no need to pick it apart, call it Conroe, Core Duo....whatever you like, it's fast

call it AM2, K8?, A64, whatever, everybody knows what's what, nobody cares if he was technically correct

yeah but ppl keep thinking AM2 is AMD's answer to conroe when it is not
 

Asian Dub Foundation

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Donnie27 said:
Missed also was the AMD Guy lying about Intel being *far behind them with 64bit. Intel will have had much more time using 64bit than AMD at 65nm and he tried to make it seem similar. Like; AMD would follow with 65nm in or about the same time Intel would follow them with 64bit. Dewd, everyone knew about "Yamhill", comeon. :rolleyes:

i dont thikn the amd guy was tying in 65nm with 64bit. he is saying:

AMD is behind on the 65nm fab
intel is behind on 64bit

two different things
 

diogo

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bottom line is AMD is not going anywhere. The market is not driven by enthusiasts who compare benchmarks to decide which processor to buy. It is driven by people who have no idea of what is the difference between 32 and 64 bit systems. People who decide that they want to spend 800 bucks on an entire system and then drive to walmart and buy whatever costs 800. And what drives the decision of what to put in those systems are the deals cut with dell, samsung and so on. And just today samsung announced that they will us amd processors on some of their laptops. And perhaps more important than the lead that conroe will enjoy is the decision by amd to license its coherent hypertransport processor interface.
http://www.eetasia.com/ART_8800420665_499486_1e1ca050200605.HTM

The reason vhs won over betamax was the fact that sony wasnt willing to license its product, while vhs was licensed and produced by a number of "budget" producers that flooded the market.

Intel would have to dominate performance and price for quite a number of years before amd's existence is in question. And since AMD will still be around, the fact that they will have their butt kicked only means that they will spend more on r&d, which means that good times are ahead. You should only have a personal allegiance to any of these brands if you own a bunch of stock that you cannot sell.
 

Asian Dub Foundation

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diogo said:
bottom line is AMD is not going anywhere. The market is not driven by enthusiasts who compare benchmarks to decide which processor to buy. It is driven by people who have no idea of what is the difference between 32 and 64 bit systems. People who decide that they want to spend 800 bucks on an entire system and then drive to walmart and buy whatever costs 800. And what drives the decision of what to put in those systems are the deals cut with dell, samsung and so on. And just today samsung announced that they will us amd processors on some of their laptops. And perhaps more important than the lead that conroe will enjoy is the decision by amd to license its coherent hypertransport processor interface.
http://www.eetasia.com/ART_8800420665_499486_1e1ca050200605.HTM

The reason vhs won over betamax was the fact that sony wasnt willing to license its product, while vhs was licensed and produced by a number of "budget" producers that flooded the market.

Intel would have to dominate performance and price for quite a number of years before amd's existence is in question. And since AMD will still be around, the fact that they will have their butt kicked only means that they will spend more on r&d, which means that good times are ahead. You should only have a personal allegiance to any of these brands if you own a bunch of stock that you cannot sell.


poor AMD though. struggle so hard to finally gain significant market share... then BAM. intel drops the big foot
 

(cf)Eclipse

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nobody_here said:
sigh....is it really that big a deal?

the wordage may be wrong, but the meaning behind it is correct

everybody knows what the poster was saying, no need to pick it apart, call it Conroe, Core Duo....whatever you like, it's fast

call it AM2, K8?, A64, whatever, everybody knows what's what, nobody cares if he was technically correct
yes, it is a big deal. we didn't try to compare lga775 to K8. it seems just absurd. why can it work the other way around?

if he said conroe and K8L, that's a different story.
 

mwarps

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diogo said:
bottom line is AMD is not going anywhere. The market is not driven by enthusiasts who compare benchmarks to decide which processor to buy. It is driven by people who have no idea of what is the difference between 32 and 64 bit systems. People who decide that they want to spend 800 bucks on an entire system and then drive to walmart and buy whatever costs 800. And what drives the decision of what to put in those systems are the deals cut with dell, samsung and so on. And just today samsung announced that they will us amd processors on some of their laptops. And perhaps more important than the lead that conroe will enjoy is the decision by amd to license its coherent hypertransport processor interface.
http://www.eetasia.com/ART_8800420665_499486_1e1ca050200605.HTM

The reason vhs won over betamax was the fact that sony wasnt willing to license its product, while vhs was licensed and produced by a number of "budget" producers that flooded the market.

Intel would have to dominate performance and price for quite a number of years before amd's existence is in question. And since AMD will still be around, the fact that they will have their butt kicked only means that they will spend more on r&d, which means that good times are ahead. You should only have a personal allegiance to any of these brands if you own a bunch of stock that you cannot sell.


Finally, someone that has a CLUE about what they are speaking, if only generally.

Someone silence the 12 year olds, they are giving me a headache.
 

nobody_here

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(cf)Eclipse said:
yes, it is a big deal. we didn't try to compare lga775 to K8. it seems just absurd. why can it work the other way around?

if he said conroe and K8L, that's a different story.

what are you talking about...??? who is "we"?

the only thing to compare to K8 was the lga775 platform CPU's unless you reached back to the socket 478 CPU's

like i said, you're making an argument based on a technicality, everybody knows what he was saying, so why make a big deal out of it?

how about we just say the latest from AMD is going to be smeared by the latest from Intel........is that broad enough to get past your "technicality radar"?
 

(cf)Eclipse

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nobody_here said:
what are you talking about...??? who is "we"?
the population in general. a lot of people seem to be comparing conroe, which is a core, to AM2, which is a socket. i said did we do that back when lga775 came out? hell no. it's just dumb

the only thing to compare to K8 was the lga775 platform CPU's unless you reached back to the socket 478 CPU's
thank you. so why again are we just saying AM2?

like i said, you're making an argument based on a technicality, everybody knows what he was saying, so why make a big deal out of it?

how about we just say the latest from AMD is going to be smeared by the latest from Intel........is that broad enough to get past your "technicality radar"?
maybe it is a technicality, but to me, i'm just getting fed up with the stupidity of some comments. the last one included. AMD's gonna be smeared by a new architecture? ha. conroe is definitly gonna whoop K8's ass around the block a few times, that's for sure. but making grand statements like an entire company is gonna get smeared is quite curious ;)


but i'll shut up now, cause mwarps wants the little kiddies to go shhhh.. that includes me at this point :D
 

nobody_here

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(cf)Eclipse said:
the population in general. a lot of people seem to be comparing conroe, which is a core, to AM2, which is a socket. i said did we do that back when lga775 came out? hell no. it's just dumb


thank you. so why again are we just saying AM2?


maybe it is a technicality, but to me, i'm just getting fed up with the stupidity of some comments. the last one included. AMD's gonna be smeared by a new architecture? ha. conroe is definitly gonna whoop K8's ass around the block a few times, that's for sure. but making grand statements like an entire company is gonna get smeared is quite curious ;)


but i'll shut up now, cause mwarps wants the little kiddies to go shhhh.. that includes me at this point :D

doh!

there you go again :p .......you know damn well what i meant by that statement, of course i am not saying the company as a whole being AMD will do down because of Intel's latest and greatest.......but AMD's latest and greatest architecture will get smeared by Intel's latest and greatest

you are being rather critical and nit-picky man, although i understand your point, sometimes in order to have a focused discussion, you have to overlook technical discrepancies unless it really confused you, and it didn't, you and i both know what he was saying, so picking him apart for using the name of the socket instead of the core is kind of counter-productive don't ya' think?

considering the fact that there's only one core currently on the AM2 platform......so saying AM2 is basically the same as saying K8.....well....K8 would be more 939 i guess......what the heck is the AM2 core called anyways? just K8 rev.?, and where the heck did K8 A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, and K go?

pick your battles wisely in order to win the war......you've heard it before... ;)
 

Donnie27

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Asian Dub Foundation said:
i dont thikn the amd guy was tying in 65nm with 64bit. he is saying:

AMD is behind on the 65nm fab
intel is behind on 64bit

two different things

Read the whole thing and don't take it out of Context. Intel launched 64bit by the time the Guy said that. At that time WinXP 64bit wouldn't even install because of Flaggs wouldn't let it, NOT because it didn't work.

First, he should have said 64bit Desktops, Itantium is 64bit and it was out before Hammer.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20050212034615.html

Intel Unveils 64-bit Pentium 4 for the Masses.
Intel Revamps Intel Pentium 4 Lineup

Category: CPU

by Anton Shilov

[ 02/21/2005 | 11:47 PM ]

ROBERT RIVET, chief financial officer of AMD, spoke at the Goldman Sachs technology investment symposium 2005 and gave a fair amount of details on its process plans.

AMD is on track to produce 65 nanometre processors, he said. While he said that Intel is clearly behind AMD on 64-bit technology, AMD won't be that far behind the firm on the move to 65 nanometre. "

Friday 25 February 2005 The Inq

Now what's wrong with these two Quotes?

Really damnning

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20050120140538.html
Intel’s 64-bit Pentium 4 Processors Begin to Emerge in Retail.
Intel’s Pentium 4 Processors EM64T Lineup Available for Sale

Category: CPU

by Anton Shilov

[ 01/20/2005 | 02:07 PM ]

Intel Corp.’s Pentium 4 processors with Extended Memory 64 Technology begin to emerge for sale in retail and can be purchased by end-users, not computer makers. While the lineup of desktop form-factor EM64T chips can be currently bought only in Japan, eventually such products may become available in other countries as well.

Can't make it more plain than that, he was fibbing! Intel's AMD X86-64 (hey, call it what it is) is 16 months old, how old is AMD's 65nm?
 

dotK

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(cf)Eclipse said:
:confused:

one is a socket, the other is a core. i've said it time and time again, stop comparing the two
Yeah, that's totally irrelevant. Anyone clued in on the tech world will immediately know what I'm talking about. One may be just the core and the other may be just the socket, but they're used to refer to the CPUs as a whole.
 

Asian Dub Foundation

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dotK said:
Yeah, that's totally irrelevant. Anyone clued in on the tech world will immediately know what I'm talking about. One may be just the core and the other may be just the socket, but they're used to refer to the CPUs as a whole.

lol i wonder did we ever call p4s "LGA755" ;)
 

coldpower27

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Well for the moment Conroe vs AM2 means:

Core 2 Duo Conroe vs Athlno 64x2 Windsor.

I think that is what everyone means by this, Windsor for the moment will be the core that is competing against Conroe until the 65nm optical shrinks that will arrive in December.

To me Conroe vs Am2 isn't correct wording, but I can still derive what they mean by this statement.

Conroe vs Windsor is what they mean. In time it will be Conroe vs Brisbane but for the moment Conroe vs Windsor it is.

This has been what the VS for over the past while.

Smithfield vs Toledo
Presler vs Toledo
Presler vs Windsor
Conroe vs Windsor (soon) [Conroe vs Socket AM2 is this]
Conroe vs Brisbane (later on..)
 

Tetrahedron

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Asian Dub Foundation said:
lol i wonder did we ever call p4s "LGA755" ;)

heh.

I have no doubts that AMD will counter the Conroe, maybe not by the end of this year.. but definitely by the end of 07, and the counter will once again blow away Intel.
 

viper650

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Tetrahedron said:
heh.

I have no doubts that AMD will counter the Conroe, maybe not by the end of this year.. but definitely by the end of 07, and the counter will once again blow away Intel.

or so you hope. who cares, lower prices for me = win
 

ThreeDee

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I have no doubts that my next upgrade will be whatever is best bang for my buck .. AMD/Intel .. nVidia/ATi .. I don't care

:)


[F]old|[H]ard
 

joemama

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Meh...I don't have any particular loyalty to AMD or Intel...I ran Intel until just a few months ago when I assembled a very nice Opteron rig that is more than enough for my typical use. Conroe sounds great and I may eventually go that way but I'm in no hurry. :)
 

savantu

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nobody_here said:
while that may be true, the problem is not with total output capacity, but OEM's like Dell sucking the supply chain dry before any percentage of that 25% gets to the retail end of business, AMD doesn't exactly have a huge drain on supply channels in regards to OEM's, so they are readily available in retail

This is BS.

Intel will likely do the opposite : flood the retail with Conroes because it has the biggest impact there and use OEMs like DELL , HP , Lenovo to get rid of exces P4/PD parts because in an OEM box it counts very little about the CPU.Price is number one , and guess what PD are dirt cheap by the time Conroe arrives.

From a mkt pov it is very obvious : it is hard to push PD in the retail channels simply because people have little simpathy for them.Conroe OTOH will make the market explode , forums will be teaming with "my sweet Intel" , rewievers will praise Intel and analysts will upgrade Intel stock to "strong buy".

I'm not saying that you won't find Conroes in DELLs or HPs , just that I doubt they will get the vast bulk of them.
 

savantu

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dotK said:
Yeah, that's totally irrelevant. Anyone clued in on the tech world will immediately know what I'm talking about. One may be just the core and the other may be just the socket, but they're used to refer to the CPUs as a whole.

QFT. Only idiots resort to this kind of arguments when it is bloody clear what a guy means when he says "AM2 vs. Conroe "
 

savantu

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Obi_Kwiet said:
What most people don't realize is that the Netburst architecture of the P4's was crap.

No , it wasn't.It was simply too advanced for its time...So we're stuck with brainiacs right now. I would be really surprised if a future version of Netburst won't pop up in the next 5-8 years.
:eek:
 

CrimandEvil

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nobody_here said:
like i said, you're making an argument based on a technicality, everybody knows what he was saying, so why make a big deal out of it?
Because it sounds so retarded. Thats like saying "Prescott is getting it's ass handed to it by s939." While the statement is technically correct its also saying that even something like a Sempron (s939) kicks the crap out of the highest clocked P4 (LG775) or even Pentium D.
(cf)Eclipse said:
maybe it is a technicality, but to me, i'm just getting fed up with the stupidity of some comments. the last one included. AMD's gonna be smeared by a new architecture? ha. conroe is definitly gonna whoop K8's ass around the block a few times, that's for sure. but making grand statements like an entire company is gonna get smeared is quite curious ;)
QFT
 

$BangforThe$

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Ockie said:
It hasn't been pulled.


And don't be so sad when the conroe comes out, byt the time it does come out, we would have already enjoyed a couple months on our AM2's :)


I read Ockie's thread on AM2 all the info. I used came from his thread. He stated it was speculation . So thats were I pulled the info from. In this forum.

I hear about amd 65n but I( don't see it . Charter is ready they say but amd isn't. When Amd actually has cores in retail we shall see if its 06 or 07. I bet its 07. K8l isn't even close to being done . Since when did AMD ever get anything out on time that was more than a simple upgrade?
 

MrGuvernment

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ThreeDee said:
..kinda like when ATi came out with the 9700pro .. nVidia had it's pants down and wingy dingy flappen in the wind perhaps thinking that they couldnt be touched ..their immediate counter card was a flop , but now both companies are relatively neck and neck.

..perhaps history might repeat itself with AMD being in nVidia's shoes back then

:confused:


Thatis what i am htinking, AMD dual socket release to me is AMD panicing at Conroe' trying to save their asses.


AMD sat high and mighty and deserved it, but they sat on their asses for too long and got too comfy, Now Intel as lite the fire under their asses.
 

coldpower27

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Asian Dub Foundation said:
yeah but ppl keep thinking AM2 is AMD's answer to conroe when it is not
No, but AMD's Windsor Core will be competing against the Conroe core in the meantime, so the comparison is legtimiate.
 
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savantu said:
This is BS.

Intel will likely do the opposite : flood the retail with Conroes because it has the biggest impact there and use OEMs like DELL , HP , Lenovo to get rid of exces P4/PD parts because in an OEM box it counts very little about the CPU.Price is number one , and guess what PD are dirt cheap by the time Conroe arrives.

From a mkt pov it is very obvious : it is hard to push PD in the retail channels simply because people have little simpathy for them.Conroe OTOH will make the market explode , forums will be teaming with "my sweet Intel" , rewievers will praise Intel and analysts will upgrade Intel stock to "strong buy".

I'm not saying that you won't find Conroes in DELLs or HPs , just that I doubt they will get the vast bulk of them.

wrong, wrong, wrong...

The retail market is a very small fraction of Intel's sales, and to prevent further marketshare losses, Intel will have to supply it's very best to OEMs in order to hold their business and restore confidence in consumers and investors. You (and many others) greatly over estimate the impact of the hardcore community's effect on the general population... it has no effect...

Intel will tend to our needs after its most important customers- 9 out of 10 people who buy PCs and Wall Street investors, have been taken care of.
 

TechHead

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Alright, keep it on track guys. Some of the arguments being bantered around here seem quite specious.. AM2 got pulled? HAH, I can configure an entire system on the Egg based off an AM2 CPU..

$Bangforthe$.. try not using that argument again ;)
 
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