Man Blames Tesla Model X For Crashing Into Building

evilsofa

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Why not? People do it all the time - think foot is on the brake, depress, start accelerating, panic, push harder on the "brake" (accelerator).

And by all the time, we mean on a daily basis. Here's a report from today in my town, of exactly the same thing happening, except that it's not a Tesla.
 

rigurat

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At least that wall was made of soft wood, where I'm from, almost every structure is made of concrete.
 

pothb

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Why not? People do it all the time - think foot is on the brake, depress, start accelerating, panic, push harder on the "brake" (accelerator).
Indeed. a couple got killed in such a way in china. IIRC, the story was about a guy teaching his wife how to drive. He was behind the car telling her to back up or something, she pressed down on the accelerator and crushed him. She had her head out the window, and freaked out and dragged her face across a wall. Sounded very ugly.
 

KazeoHin

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I nearly killed my wife and I when I mistook the Accelerator for the brake, luckily, instead of freaking out and mashing down the 'brake' I quickly moved my foot over to the ACTUAL brake, the whole event maybe happened in less than a second. It happens to people.
 

B00nie

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I nearly killed my wife and I when I mistook the Accelerator for the brake, luckily, instead of freaking out and mashing down the 'brake' I quickly moved my foot over to the ACTUAL brake, the whole event maybe happened in less than a second. It happens to people.
Yeah NORMAL people (like you) realize that it's the accelerator and not the brake, switch pedals and stop the car.

People who panic and slam the accelerator are not fit to drive and should have their licenses permanently revoked.
 
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DocSavage

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I nearly killed my wife and I when I mistook the Accelerator for the brake, luckily, instead of freaking out and mashing down the 'brake' I quickly moved my foot over to the ACTUAL brake, the whole event maybe happened in less than a second. It happens to people.
Holy shit. That would be scary as fuck and I'm glad you managed to correct.
 

DocSavage

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I bet having to drive a stick-shift makes these types of problems far less likely. Having to use two feet trains you as to where your feet are in relation to the peddles at all times.
 

Jorona

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I bet having to drive a stick-shift makes these types of problems far less likely. Having to use two feet trains you as to where your feet are in relation to the peddles at all times.

Or you could be cool and occasionally get into an auto car and mash the non-existant clutch. I love the face when they do it. You can just feel the shame.
 

Dekoth-E-

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I nearly killed my wife and I when I mistook the Accelerator for the brake, luckily, instead of freaking out and mashing down the 'brake' I quickly moved my foot over to the ACTUAL brake, the whole event maybe happened in less than a second. It happens to people.

Mistakes happen, no driver is perfect. It is how you react that determined everything. Someone who is competent like yourself, recognize the mistake and react accordingly. People who shouldn't have a license in the first place do what this idiot did.
 

legcramp

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When I was 5 or 6 and in the car with my mom she was checking on the food in the back seat that was about to spill while reversing... she meant to brake but mashed down on the accelerator and jammed the car's rear into a huge tree. LOL and I was in the car.
 
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With the exception of a few cars with 3rd party floor mats that got stuck under the accelerator, almost all the other crashes where caused by people hitting the gas instead of the brake.

Don't always blame the people. The carpet as installed in 90's era S10 Blazers (and it's platform siblings) would snag the accelerator if depressed to 3/4, which you had to do to kick down the transmission. I think they managed to avoid a recall and just issued a TSB. The fix was trimming it back with a razor blade as the "hump" over the transfer-case is what caused the offending ripple in the carpet. I also owned a Jeep Cherokee of a similar vintage which had a goofy throttle-linkage setup to accommodate the cruise control that would snag on the throttlebody if you floored it. There was just enough wobble in the mount to let it happen and if I had crashed I doubt anybody would have discovered it.
 

DocSavage

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Don't always blame the people. The carpet as installed in 90's era S10 Blazers (and it's platform siblings) would snag the accelerator if depressed to 3/4, which you had to do to kick down the transmission. I think they managed to avoid a recall and just issued a TSB. The fix was trimming it back with a razor blade as the "hump" over the transfer-case is what caused the offending ripple in the carpet. I also owned a Jeep Cherokee of a similar vintage which had a goofy throttle-linkage setup to accommodate the cruise control that would snag on the throttlebody if you floored it. There was just enough wobble in the mount to let it happen and if I had crashed I doubt anybody would have discovered it.
Good point. I've had both a 1965 ford pickup and a 1983 Datsun 310 where the accelerator got stuck to the floor. At least this stuff is a lot less common now days.
 

Pyroja

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I bet the wife was driving. Women get these amazing brain farts where they mix up the left and the right pedal and keep on pushing max throttle even though they see they're hitting the wall / other car / pedestrian / whatever.

Cases like that should have their licenses revoked permanently.

This is hardly unique to women. Men do it every bit as much.

Yeah NORMAL people (like you) realize that it's the accelerator and not the brake, switch pedals and stop the car.

People who panic and slam the accelerator are not fit to drive and should have their licenses permanently revoked.

I mean, I've been in that situation before and have pulled my foot off the gas before wrecking anything too, but... Most people freeze up in panic situations. It's a totally normal thing to do. If it wasn't normal, we wouldn't need so much repetitive training to deal with high-pressure situations.

Humans are very, very imperfect creatures with potentially lethal flaws all over the place. This is why I cannot wait for self-driving cars to hit the mainstream. Our roads will be far safer, because the "normal" human (and most likely you and I) aren't really any better than the people in this article. We all make dumb mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes kill us. Or just wreck a car. Or we get lucky and it's just a scare. But we all do it.
 

B00nie

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This is hardly unique to women. Men do it every bit as much.



I mean, I've been in that situation before and have pulled my foot off the gas before wrecking anything too, but... Most people freeze up in panic situations. It's a totally normal thing to do. If it wasn't normal, we wouldn't need so much repetitive training to deal with high-pressure situations.

Humans are very, very imperfect creatures with potentially lethal flaws all over the place. This is why I cannot wait for self-driving cars to hit the mainstream. Our roads will be far safer, because the "normal" human (and most likely you and I) aren't really any better than the people in this article. We all make dumb mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes kill us. Or just wreck a car. Or we get lucky and it's just a scare. But we all do it.
I've driven about 1 million kilometers without an accident. If you ask me, those 'imperfect' cases who can't control the simple operation of throttle and brake, are not fit to drive. They should have never got a license in the first place.

The problem is that it's way too easy to pass a drivers test.
 

DocSavage

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I've driven about 1 million kilometers without an accident. If you ask me, those 'imperfect' cases who can't control the simple operation of throttle and brake, are not fit to drive. They should have never got a license in the first place.

The problem is that it's way too easy to pass a drivers test.
I've seen plenty of people who manage to cause others to have an accident while they didn't even notice anything happened -- Like a car that was in the middle lane wandering towards a car in the left lane who then drives into the concrete median to avoid said car. Also, drivers who go 10 mph below the speed limit causing everyone else on the road to have to merge into other lanes and go around them. Not saying this is you, but no-accidents does not automatically equal good driver.
 

Synful Serenity

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Almost all of the time this happens, it's a case of mistaking the accelerator for the brake pedal. Most of these first Xs have been delivered fully-loaded, and being a P90D it's highly likely it has the Ludicrous upgrade which gives it 3 sec 0-60 time, so this could have seriously taken the wife by surprise. . It's probably what really happened, and it's possible that the wife who was driving told the husband it was the autopilot and he believes it. Judging from the tone of his initial post on the Tesla forums though, it sounds as if he's looking for a payday, or else he's shorting stock.
 

dethklokworkorange

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I believe it was operator error, but does trusting the company to truthfully interpret data that may make it liable for millions in damages seem like the best idea?
"The car malfunctioned and caused me to crash.
'Well, let's take a look...nope, computer says right here it was your fault. Boy, it's lucky for us the system we designed cleared us from any and all liability. "
 

pothb

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No, it's not. I wouldn't be surprised if there are 3rd party investigators who looks at it though.

That said, it's hard to doubt since I know this type of stuff happens. I've almost done it as well... almost.
 

B00nie

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I believe it was operator error, but does trusting the company to truthfully interpret data that may make it liable for millions in damages seem like the best idea?
"The car malfunctioned and caused me to crash.
'Well, let's take a look...nope, computer says right here it was your fault. Boy, it's lucky for us the system we designed cleared us from any and all liability. "
Of course one can always question the correctness of the logs. In theory it's totally possible that a system malfunction sent a false reading from the pedal so the logs look like the driver did it - but only look like it.
 

flatty

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I personal know a situation, 30+ years ago, when the father of a friend died because his automatic Mercedes gear stuck and was no way to break. He finished in a lake, dying drawn. So, im not saying is impossible, but is just improbable with this days thenology, but who knows?
 

wizdum

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Or you could be cool and occasionally get into an auto car and mash the non-existant clutch. I love the face when they do it. You can just feel the shame.

I did that once, but it was a small car and I was used to a truck. My boot caught the edge of the brake pedal and I almost sent my passenger through the windshield.
 

Exavior

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and the people posting here are just proving we need self driving cars with it being illegal to drive a car on your own.
 
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Good point. I've had both a 1965 ford pickup and a 1983 Datsun 310 where the accelerator got stuck to the floor. At least this stuff is a lot less common now days.

It's common for IT people to blame the end-user after being victimized by their perpetual inability to follow directions; we have to remember not to apply it to other situations. We should know better than to trust tech; if Tesla says it wasn't the computer they should have to prove it.

Another example. I used to own an '04 Yukon XL. I came out one day to find the driver's window down. I know for a fact it was up when I got home and if it had been the fob both front windows would have dropped. I started it up and tried to raise the window and got no response. I had to jumper the battery to the motor to do so. Tried all of the controls on the driver's door and none of them worked. Took it in to discover it was the BCM (flash was corrupt.) Reflashed and it worked fine from then on.

Trusting a PLC is a foolish thing to do. Prove it. Every input, every output. I wonder if automotive systems meet CAT4 requirements?
 

Jagger100

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Tesla confirmed driver error she floored the accelerator via cars 'black box'
Because we know for a fact the pedal's sensors and associated logic and electronics are in perfect working order without being reviewed by anyone yet, let alone someone with a vested interest in what I call "drilling for oil". "Drilling for oil" is looking close enough to get some piece of evidence that absolves oneself of responsibility and immediately stop looking, like the first thing you do when you stike oil is turn off the drill. A proper fault analysis would require looking at the sensor's and related hardware before deflecting blame. They haven't had the time to review everything.

When you have a system as complicated as a car, if you go in with a bias looking for "how is this not our fault" you can get a different answer than if you go in looking for "how could this be our fault" and methodically checking off each possibility on your list. Their rapid response makes it seem like the former. They got enough to make a good story and will let the press and 'fanboys' do the rest.
 

Dekoth-E-

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and the people posting here are just proving we need self driving cars with it being illegal to drive a car on your own.

Illegal? no just far more difficult than it currently is to get a license. I would be very welcoming of a future where the average "driver" had to go through the amount of training I have to have a license. I would be quite happy if self driving cars eliminated 80% of the drivers licenses out there.
 
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Illegal? no just far more difficult than it currently is to get a license. I would be very welcoming of a future where the average "driver" had to go through the amount of training I have to have a license. I would be quite happy if self driving cars eliminated 80% of the drivers licenses out there.

Simply requiring cars to have manuals would get you halfway there. It's an intrinsic dexterity test. When I went through motorcycle training you got to see a very direct and brutal education of those who were either too timid or too aggressive. A 125cc with a final drive of almost 4:1 doesn't like popped clutches. Hilarity ensued!
 

Exavior

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Illegal? no just far more difficult than it currently is to get a license. I would be very welcoming of a future where the average "driver" had to go through the amount of training I have to have a license. I would be quite happy if self driving cars eliminated 80% of the drivers licenses out there.

Ok, balance between the two. Illegal outside of extremely rare positions where you are forced to go through very strict training and hundreds of hours of recorded driving time. Make it similar to somebody trying to fly a 787. Get that down to 98% of cars are under their own control and it won't let you take it out into manual control without proof of valid licenses and a valid reason.
 

dvsman

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I remember when I was younger (this was in the 80s/90s) and my mom's Audi had this problem. I think they were the first cars to have what would later be called "unintended acceleration" - it really sank Audi car company's reputation during that time. Of course if you look at them now, I doubt anyone even remembers it anymore.
 
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Pre-computer turbo diesels could run away as well; I think because of the waste gate spring giving way. It's why they had to have a solenoid on the fuel line that could cut them off.
 
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