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Major NVIDIA announcement monday @ 9am PST
- Thread starter WiLLiSTER
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spine
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Sounds like denial. Riddle me this nvidiots: 6months late are ati fans really scared?
If Fermi is worth the wait (I highly doubt) I'll buy one. I buy both brands myself only an idiot would defend a company and spin free pr. But here's the kick in the nuts for you, even the most hardcore fans will not get one for a long time 2-3 months according to Kyle. This is going to be an extremely hard to get card. What are Ati fans scared of again? Oh thats right a refresh or the 6 series..oh wait.
The thing is (and that which remains the only thing that gives me any confidence in Fermi) is that Nvidia is sitting on a huge stack of cash. They can totally afford to sell every Fermi card at a loss to beat ATI competition and still have more cash than ATI by year's end.
Nvidia are probably going to make losses with this chip (especially in the midrange) till they respin it in October/November, but they don't care, they'll be in full control of GPGPU technology in the industry for years to come, which is what really matters.
The thing is (and that which remains the only thing that gives me any confidence in Fermi) is that Nvidia is sitting on a huge stack of cash. They can totally afford to sell every Fermi card at a loss to beat ATI competition and still have more cash than ATI by year's end.
Nvidia are probably going to make losses with this chip (especially in the midrange) till they respin it in October/November, but they don't care, they'll be in full control of GPGPU technology in the industry for years to come, which is what really matters.
There is a lot to be said about this.
1) Nvidia is sitting on loads of cash. They can afford to loose money for a year if need be.
2) They have also turned a profit for the last two quarters. During a time period where they were suppose to be getting "crushed" and "dominated" by ATI as they had released all these "monsters". This is not to say Nvidia is some magical giant. They aren't. What it means is high end graphics segment is not the end all be all of making money as a graphics company. Something often overlooked by fanboys.
3) Nvidia's architecture is diverging from ATI's. And it isn't just about chip size. Who has the better architecture for DX9 or DX11 games is yet to be decided. And if that matters is also yet to be decided. Like it or hate it, most games are TWIMTBP titles. This is going to be scary going forward as more and more developers will be developing towards Nvidia's hardware. It's not a black and white format war where one company is going to pack up and go home, but it is a gray one where one company is going to get more preformance out of thier transistors.
4) AMD has spun off the foundaries. This is going to give AMD a lot more capital to work with. It will also give Nvidia access to GF which should worry TSMC. We'll have to see how this plays out, but I would not be surprised if we see 22nm chips and/or below being done at GF and not TSMC. While I'm sure they would be getting a nice price from TSMC, being late is part of the price tag.
Even without Fermi they actually gained market share last quarter. Which is significant for 2 reasons. 1.) The 4th quarter is huge for CE companies. 2.) Even with the HD5800 ATI actually lost.
What? NVIDIA lost about 6% last quarter and AMD only gained <1%. Intel actually claimed the rest.
edifyingkarma
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Regardless of the sentiments of the market, I hope that Fermi is a fantastic product and induces ATI to release a refresh to compete
Video Cards not IGP's Nvidia's market share is approaching 70% again.
NVIDIA was forced out of the IGP market by Intel.
Sikkyu
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source?
ikarinokami
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try reading the DOJ notice of investigation against intel. Which i did call, seriously i don't know what intel was thinking in regards to it's conduct with Nvidia. They are going to lose BTW, one of the worse cases of anti-competitive practices in the modern era. it's just of question of penalty rather than guilt in my opinion.
The thing is (and that which remains the only thing that gives me any confidence in Fermi) is that Nvidia is sitting on a huge stack of cash. They can totally afford to sell every Fermi card at a loss to beat ATI competition and still have more cash than ATI by year's end.
Nvidia are probably going to make losses with this chip (especially in the midrange) till they respin it in October/November, but they don't care, they'll be in full control of GPGPU technology in the industry for years to come, which is what really matters.
A good post and none of the usual armchair market analyst rambles. Funny how you mention 'Nvidia cash' indirectly with regards to Fermi support and its turns into a buzzword with multiple myopic posts in defense of Nvidia on possible wet dream forecasts as a response.
Don't blame them however, we still have nothing on Fermi: benchmarks, SPs, power draw, pricing.
Cuda will fix everything so I'm confident in Nvidia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZXhR1ibj8
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LoL, you guys sure love your hardware.
Totally
I've never understood how people could be so attached to a graphics card company. Surely you'd just buy whatever is going to give you the best performance.Personally I'm excited about fermi because I'm building a new PC. At the moment I'll be putting in the 4870 from my old PC because I want to see what fermi brings to the table before I buy a new video card.
OMG!!! LOL!!! This is one of the funniest things I've seen in a long long time!!! PERFECT!!! That said, I'm actually holding out to see what these Fermi cards can do before I go with a new 5850.
I'm gonna LOL if the Fermi kicks the ATI offerings ass up and down the street.
Then I'm going to buy a new Nvidia card.
That would matter if Fermi had come out on time. The fact is it's late to the market and that was already a screw up on nvidias part. Their PR disasters since then don't mean much about Fermi, those are just funny as all hell and show the companies a bit foolish.
For how late this card is, it better kick ATi's products to the curb by a large margin, or it's a failure. Even still, they have to deal with the fact that ATi will probably refresh soon and drop prices.
Mistakes happen with both companies. I went with dual 8800's because ATi was to late. I went with dual 5870's because nvidia was to late.
The 4xxx series were behind NVIDIA in performance. Do you consider them a failure?
MurderCityDevil
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The 4xxx series weren't plagued by inherent flaws in design and actually made a profit whereas fermi, by the looks of it, will lose nvidia money just to produce.
siliconnerd
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The 4xxx series wasn't 6 months late to the game. Also, if you look at the numbers from the Steam survey the 48xx series has a much higher percentage than all Geforce 2xx cards combined. The 48xx series didn't perform as well, but it was ment to perform for cheap.
In the reverse the way some people here bash Nvidia you would think they get paid from the other camp. Am I wrong? heh no. So that door swings both ways it seems.
Quite possibly might be the case, although that remains to be seen yet.
Funny how all through the 4th quater of 09 nvidia still made a profit. Amazing that while AMD was handing them their ass in the high end GPU market they GASP!! still made money and were profitable?? ZOMG!!11 fanboys are crying everywhere lol
So while noone wants to ever lose money nvidia is still in 10x better financial shape than amd or the ati division. Kinda funny how that works out ehh?
Oh but ummm I'm sorry, please continue with the nvidia bashing. I'm gonna go get some more popcorn.
piscian18
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Quite possibly might be the case, although that remains to be seen yet.
Funny how all through the 4th quater of 09 nvidia still made a profit. Amazing that while AMD was handing them their ass in the high end GPU market they GASP!! still made money and were profitable?? ZOMG!!11 fanboys are crying everywhere lol
So while noone wants to ever lose money nvidia is still in 10x better financial shape than amd or the ati division. Kinda funny how that works out ehh?
Oh but ummm I'm sorry, please continue with the nvidia bashing. I'm gonna go get some more popcorn.
I'd like to believe that AMD/ATi aren't about making money so much as risk taking and innovation.
LOL what? Wait, I almost spit my morning coffee all over my screen reading this dude, I'm sorry but what? Are you really serious? You think AMD/ATI are the good guys here for all of us PC gamers just doing the "right" thing? That's kind of what I'm getting from the way you worded that post.
Seriously, they are about assessing risk/innovation and balancing that into a business plan that makes sense and ultimately makes them as much money as possible. Same as with any large corporation dude. They aren't any more or less into innovating than nvidia. What they are and have been until this point is much much less profitable and bleeding money out of their ass like pigs. Now I'm not saying nvidia are business guru's either per say since they make mistakes too. However the bottom line here is they are both at this thing to make money as much money as possible, period.
kilgore777
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Personally, I hope that Fermie is all it is cranked up to be. Why? Because if so, it will push the market forward and ATI will need to answer with price reductions and new products. Nothing is better for us consumers than competition.... I don't know what will happen, but I only wish success for NVidia (and I just purchased an 5850 - which I am really happy with).
Until the cards hit the market, this is all just conjecture. I don't get the hatred..... all companies fuck up and make mistakes. I am hoping for the best for both ATI and NVidia. Thank God there isn't just one company that makes good GPUs! We would all be screwed....
Until the cards hit the market, this is all just conjecture. I don't get the hatred..... all companies fuck up and make mistakes. I am hoping for the best for both ATI and NVidia. Thank God there isn't just one company that makes good GPUs! We would all be screwed....
hahahahahahahaha. Yeah, thats why the increased the MRSP of their cards when Nvidia failed to launch.
Lol, now AMD's financial history makes a lot more sense. They haven't been trying to make money all this time.
No. they're only in it for the babes...
Quite possibly might be the case, although that remains to be seen yet.
Funny how all through the 4th quater of 09 nvidia still made a profit. Amazing that while AMD was handing them their ass in the high end GPU market they GASP!! still made money and were profitable?? ZOMG!!11 fanboys are crying everywhere lol
So while noone wants to ever lose money nvidia is still in 10x better financial shape than amd or the ati division. Kinda funny how that works out ehh?
Oh but ummm I'm sorry, please continue with the nvidia bashing. I'm gonna go get some more popcorn.
Whom makes more money doesn't denote whom has made the better top end video card, nor does it wipe away the fact that GF100/Fermi was promised in October or November 2009 and only just now has a date of what's IMO is most likely a paper launch of March 26, 2010. All you proved is that Nvidia is better known among more mainstream customers, ones whom if they do respond to the word "Fermi", they think "Enrico", not "GTX 480". That and your comparsion doesn't consider that ATI & AMD are one company. ATI could make money hand over fist on it's own and still have the whole of the corporation losing money due to the CPU division, the "AMD" part of AMD/ATI not being as healthy. As I understand it, if ATI was it's own entity it would be profitable, but I could be wrong. Nvidia is only Nvidia, and even if ATI wasn't owned by AMD now, as I pointed out above neither company makes a lot of money off their top end cards. It's the mainstream and really the OEM cards for people like Dell for instance where they do.
Now am I a fanboy of either brand? No, to be a fanboy of a hunk of electronics is absurd. If you are and wish to be, good for you. I guess I can't get too emotional over a card sitting in a computer. It would be like falling in love with my toaster. A video card isn't a dear friend, family member or pet, so I just can't see nor do I understand well why so many are fanboys of one brand or the other. So having said all that, if GF100/Fermi does have a card that both strongly outperforms the 5870 and the cost is reasonable for said performance, I may get one and move my 5870 to a spare PC. If it doesn't, then I won't. I am not a fanboy, I buy what I think is the best, or if I need to have a budget best bang for the buck when I do want or need to buy a computer component. Again if you are, fine. But I get to have two brands to choose, I'm not mentally and emotionally locked into one.
Anyway, if you're trolling for replies, enjoy. You got another, enjoy the 5 seconds of ego boost. If not, then enjoy your blind devotion to a corporation that probably doesn't know you exist if you are a Nvidia fanboy. And yes, I know ATI doesn't know you exist either.
To add to this with an edit: I honestly hope Fermi is a strong card. Both so Nvidia has a strong offering and so ATI may lower prices to compete. Even if it has a strong card and despite that I decide to not get one after all, that keeps Nvidia's top end product strong, and hopefully puts them back on schedule for the next top end one, as opposed to being months late.
And to continue to add, I must admit LOL to the guy saying that he believes ATI is insted only considering innovation, not making money. Maybe he just worded that poorly, but um...it's a big corporation, no matter how much they dump into R&D they are concerned with making money.
But anyway, if you wish to equate my comment to Nvidia bashing, feel free. But it will prove you have pretty low reading comprehension and didn't understand my post.
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AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Thanks, that was funny.
dwilson041781
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Whats ur source for the March 26th release date info? I just read it on another site as well with no source provided and so Im curious.
G
Wow a little long winded no? I mean I understand what your saying but condense a little next time.
Anyway, yes, its true nvidia missed the launch window and of course they didn't want too. However sometimes in business and in life shit happens. I as an adult can understand this concept and not feel a need to bash a company because of it.
Nvidia making money while losing the top end gpu game is simply proving even more how insignificant we top end buyers we are. As well as showing us how little high end sales affect the bottom line for both companies. Nvidia is profitable and adm/ati is not. If ati could and probably should have stayed a solo company then that's on them. Simple fact is the company is called amd now. In fact ati from what I understand doesn't even exist anymore. One thing cannot be disputed, and that is nvidia is the better run business as far as a profit driven business is concerned and pretty much always has been even before amd bought ati. This is pretty much common knowledge. As far as who has the better tech that's debatable and pretty much bounces back and forth.
As for me I'm an nvidia fan. In that I'm a fan of their products. Trust me this is a healthy thing not some blind love that forces me to only sing their name from the mountain tops, I promise lol. Bear in mind just because I prefer nvidia products that doesn't mean I hate or dislike amd products or make their products inferior in any way. I can like or prefer one company without bashing the other. A crazy concept here ehh?
Wow a little long winded no? I mean I understand what your saying but condense a little next time.
Anyway, yes, its true nvidia missed the launch window and of course they didn't want too. However sometimes in business and in life shit happens. I as an adult can understand this concept and not feel a need to bash a company because of it.
Nvidia making money while losing the top end gpu game is simply proving even more how insignificant we top end buyers we are. As well as showing us how little high end sales affect the bottom line for both companies. Nvidia is profitable and adm/ati is not. If ati could and probably should have stayed a solo company then that's on them. Simple fact is the company is called amd now. In fact ati from what I understand doesn't even exist anymore. One thing cannot be disputed, and that is nvidia is the better run business as far as a profit driven business is concerned and pretty much always has been even before amd bought ati. This is pretty much common knowledge. As far as who has the better tech that's debatable and pretty much bounces back and forth.
As for me I'm an nvidia fan. In that I'm a fan of their products. Trust me this is a healthy thing not some blind love that forces me to only sing their name from the mountain tops, I promise lol. Bear in mind just because I prefer nvidia products that doesn't mean I hate or dislike amd products or make their products inferior in any way. I can like or prefer one company without bashing the other. A crazy concept here ehh?
And your post isn't all that much shorter, may I call you long winded also? And AGAIN I'm not bashing Nvidia if that is what you're assuming. If you did, please see my comment in my previous post about poor reading comprehension. I'm quite neutral toward both companies, and again I buy what I believe to be the best within my budget when I do buy.
Fan of a product and FANBOY are two different categories. But all I can go by is your actions. Despite your claims, you seem plenty ready to troll for replies in a thread you KNOW will mostly contain Nvidia bashing due to the fiasco with Fermi. (And yes, I am well aware that ATI has had their fiascos also, as does any large corporation making any product). So I do wonder if your claims that you're just a fan holds weight, if you're willing to come here to troll. But then again, perhaps you consider me a troll for commenting on your posts too. Anyway, OBVIOUSLY I can comprehend that a fan of a product isn't someone showing blind devotion. But a fanboy is such. And well, I'm inclined to believe unless proven otherwise that anyone coming to troll a thread does lean more toward the "fanboy" category of fandom.
Anyway, if this is too long winded for you now, feel free to skip my posts.
I honestly won't mind. If I come back to this thread in the next couple of days, there truly isn't too much more to be said about GF100 until we either see pricing, benchmarks or even a set of final firm stats for the thing.threeDguru
Limp Gawd
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And your post isn't all that much shorter, may I call you long winded also? And AGAIN I'm not bashing Nvidia if that is what you're assuming. If you did, please see my comment in my previous post about poor reading comprehension. I'm quite neutral toward both companies, and again I buy what I believe to be the best within my budget when I do buy.
Fan of a product and FANBOY are two different categories. But all I can go by is your actions. Despite your claims, you seem plenty ready to troll for replies in a thread you KNOW will mostly contain Nvidia bashing due to the fiasco with Fermi. (And yes, I am well aware that ATI has had their fiascos also, as does any large corporation making any product). So I do wonder if your claims that you're just a fan holds weight, if you're willing to come here to troll. But then again, perhaps you consider me a troll for commenting on your posts too. Anyway, OBVIOUSLY I can comprehend that a fan of a product isn't someone showing blind devotion. But a fanboy is such. And well, I'm inclined to believe unless proven otherwise that anyone coming to troll a thread does lean more toward the "fanboy" category of fandom.
Anyway, if this is too long winded for you now, feel free to skip my posts.
More trolling in your reply than in Bill Dance Outdoors. just shut the f up already.
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And your post isn't all that much shorter, may I call you long winded also? And AGAIN I'm not bashing Nvidia if that is what you're assuming. If you did, please see my comment in my previous post about poor reading comprehension. I'm quite neutral toward both companies, and again I buy what I believe to be the best within my budget when I do buy.
Fan of a product and FANBOY are two different categories. But all I can go by is your actions. Despite your claims, you seem plenty ready to troll for replies in a thread you KNOW will mostly contain Nvidia bashing due to the fiasco with Fermi. (And yes, I am well aware that ATI has had their fiascos also, as does any large corporation making any product). So I do wonder if your claims that you're just a fan holds weight, if you're willing to come here to troll. But then again, perhaps you consider me a troll for commenting on your posts too. Anyway, OBVIOUSLY I can comprehend that a fan of a product isn't someone showing blind devotion. But a fanboy is such. And well, I'm inclined to believe unless proven otherwise that anyone coming to troll a thread does lean more toward the "fanboy" category of fandom.
Anyway, if this is too long winded for you now, feel free to skip my posts.
Wow so commenting in this thread means I'm trolling for responses ehh? You guys throw around this trolling bullshit as much or more than the nvidia bashing. I seriously don't know what's worse everyone and their mother who responds to a thread being called a troll or loling at nvidia for fermi being late. Whatever, really its not that important, seriously.
Oh and you are needlessly long winded for someone throwing around the troll word so much. I suspect if anyone is trolling its you my man. Why don't you check my post history then tell me I'm a troll. That is all.
MurderCityDevil
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Quite possibly might be the case, although that remains to be seen yet.
Funny how all through the 4th quater of 09 nvidia still made a profit. Amazing that while AMD was handing them their ass in the high end GPU market they GASP!! still made money and were profitable?? ZOMG!!11 fanboys are crying everywhere lol
So while noone wants to ever lose money nvidia is still in 10x better financial shape than amd or the ati division. Kinda funny how that works out ehh?
Oh but ummm I'm sorry, please continue with the nvidia bashing. I'm gonna go get some more popcorn.
I really am not bashing them, just stating what the current information seems to tell us. In fact, I am really an nividia fan, they're the only cards I'd ever bought, and prior to this whole fermi debacle, many could think I was a fanboy. But right now, like so many others, I'm very disappointed with nvidia and honestly don't care very much about fermi anymore. Right now I don't have a preference either way, because it's clear to me that unless fermi is really an unbelievable monster card, and is priced similarly to ATI, I won't even consider upgrading. Not that my 285 needs an upgrade to begin with. I think ATI did really well this generation actually and my hat's off to the cool stuff they brought to the table such as eyefinity. Can't afford it, but definitely have respect for it.