Mafia vs Mafia DE

matt167

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I have never played the first 2 Mafia's but really like the third.. The 2002 version of Mafia is available on Steam as well as the re make.. The Re make has some bad reviews due to missing content. Is the modern version better or worse? I HATE Doom 3 BFG because of it's missing content, but it also did not do much for visual improvements either
 

Derangel

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I haven't seen reports of it missing content. What reviews seem to be bitching about is that it's basically a straight remake of the original, with nothing really added. Mafia 1's open world was always empty, there were never side activities or collectables, or anything to distract from the plot of the game. Hanger 13 seems to have kept that in tact, avoiding turning it into a modern open-world "content" barf title.
 

Q-BZ

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Get DE but yes it's sadly an INCREDIBLE game world that's sadly underutilized. They missed an opportunity to right one of the few "wrongs" with the game. I wish it could be modded.
 

Derangel

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Get DE but yes it's sadly an INCREDIBLE game world that's sadly underutilized. They missed an opportunity to right one of the few "wrongs" with the game. I wish it could be modded.

I don't really feel like it was ever "wrong" to not have a lot of side stuff in the game. The story simply didn't have the big lulls of more modern open-world titles that would allow for stuff like that to happen. It would honestly completely break the story and framing device if it was there. Just imagine Tommy telling the detective "then I spent several hours racing around the track to earn money" or anything related to typical side-activity stuff. It just doesn't work with the story the game is telling.
 

scojer

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Mafia 1&2 were narrative games with the illusion of an open world.

Playing the storylines, I never wanted more, it was after I beat the game that I wanted more, and, then realized the cities were empty.

So they work well enough for what they are - Set pieces to the story.
 

Q-BZ

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I don't really feel like it was ever "wrong" to not have a lot of side stuff in the game. The story simply didn't have the big lulls of more modern open-world titles that would allow for stuff like that to happen. It would honestly completely break the story and framing device if it was there. Just imagine Tommy telling the detective "then I spent several hours racing around the track to earn money" or anything related to typical side-activity stuff. It just doesn't work with the story the game is telling.

Oh I know but... still. Look at that gorgeous game world. That's a tragedy to have it as empty as it is. ;)
 

matt167

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I read a review where they removed 'options' for missions to be completed one way or another ect...
 

Bigbacon

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there is an amazing mod for the original mafia that makes it looks way better and playable in widescreen and what not on modern machines. its hard to find now though.
 

Derangel

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I read a review where they removed 'options' for missions to be completed one way or another ect...

It's been a while since I've played the original, but I don't remember missions having a lot of differing options. Everything was pretty linear. If any missions did have any notable options for how to complete them it would have had to have only been a few as everything I can remember was pretty straight forward.
 

M76

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So I've started playing it. And I'm not happy. It's not all bad, but there are certain issues. Like cut content.


  • Most of the driving missions are completely cut out of the game,
  • and even the ones that aren't cut sometimes you are not doing any driving in. For example "Trip to the country"
  • And the few missions where chases are left in it is badly scripted set pieces instead of actual sandbox based driving.
  • Even the race has set pieces that trigger on each lap at the exact same point every time.

And then there are narrative changes, the people who wrote this either don't understand the original, or are ****ing with the fans of the original deliberately.

Many of the dialogues are rewritten, so that their brilliant nuances are lost completely. I thought I had gone insane and only in my memory the original seemed brilliant, I watched some of the dialogue of the original on youtube to check and I confirmed I'm not insane, it's still brilliant.

And it's not minor things either, the very nature of the characters are changed by this, and there is even one huge narrative change that was completely different than in the original, so much so that it affects the ending of the game. Now I wonder if they changed the ending completely or how is that reconciled. I have my suspicions, and none of them good, (I haven't finished it yet)

Gameplay wise there are good news and bad news, but I'll write more on that in a full review eventually.
 

M76

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It's been a while since I've played the original, but I don't remember missions having a lot of differing options. Everything was pretty linear. If any missions did have any notable options for how to complete them it would have had to have only been a few as everything I can remember was pretty straight forward.
The chases had multiple paths in the original. For example when you are chasing Morello in the countryside it can go two ways. I didn't know it initially, only when I saw someone else getting a different path.
 

Flogger23m

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So I've started playing it. And I'm not happy. It's not all bad, but there are certain issues. Like cut content.


  • Most of the driving missions are completely cut out of the game,
  • and even the ones that aren't cut sometimes you are not doing any driving in. For example "Trip to the country"
  • And the few missions where chases are left in it is badly scripted set pieces instead of actual sandbox based driving.
  • Even the race has set pieces that trigger on each lap at the exact same point every time.

And then there are narrative changes, the people who wrote this either don't understand the original, or are ****ing with the fans of the original deliberately.

Many of the dialogues are rewritten, so that their brilliant nuances are lost completely. I thought I had gone insane and only in my memory the original seemed brilliant, I watched some of the dialogue of the original on youtube to check and I confirmed I'm not insane, it's still brilliant.

And it's not minor things either, the very nature of the characters are changed by this, and there is even one huge narrative change that was completely different than in the original, so much so that it affects the ending of the game. Now I wonder if they changed the ending completely or how is that reconciled. I have my suspicions, and none of them good, (I haven't finished it yet)

Gameplay wise there are good news and bad news, but I'll write more on that in a full review eventually.

Feel free to put the original ending in spoiler tags or link a youtube video. The ending of DE seemed fairly sudden and a bit odd. Never played the original, wondering if they altered it in some way. I chalked it up to simply being how the game was but now you have me wondering.
 

M76

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Feel free to put the original ending in spoiler tags or link a youtube video. The ending of DE seemed fairly sudden and a bit odd. Never played the original, wondering if they altered it in some way. I chalked it up to simply being how the game was but now you have me wondering.
I'll have to finish DE first to notice the differences, I'm about 3/4 through it. But the biggest changes I noticed so far:

In the original, Paulie is a very cool guy, friendly with everyone, even Raplhie, always there to help you. In the DE he's a complete ahole.
In the original it is established that Luigi is a great cook, this is changed in the DE that he can't cook at all, and Sarah is doing all the cooking.
In the original Tommy is much more presented as a victim of circumstances who reluctantly gets dragged into the mob life, in the DE he is presented as enthusiastic, who relishes the opportunity, and even enjoys it initially.

But by far the biggest narrative change so far, is that in the original, Tommy decides on his own volition to let the girl go in the hotel, he is not put up to it by Sam. Which makes no sense as in the original Sam has a family, why would he care about a whore in a brothel? And at the end it's part of the reason they come after Tommy is because he let her and Frank go. Sam directly mentions that they found her later and taken care of her. That whole reasoning goes out of the window in DE, as Sam was the one who told Tommy to let her go.
But it's not the big changes that make it lackluster, it's lots of small changes in the dialogue, and added elements that left a very sour taste in my mouth. Almost every line is rewritten, and for the worse. The witty dialogue replaced with more generic lines with uneccessary swearing and a lack of class.

It's like the writers were desperate to leave their own mark on it, well they did, in the form of a big shitstain.
 

scojer

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I'll have to finish DE first to notice the differences, I'm about 3/4 through it. But the biggest changes I noticed so far:

In the original, Paulie is a very cool guy, friendly with everyone, even Raplhie, always there to help you. In the DE he's a complete ahole.
In the original it is established that Luigi is a great cook, this is changed in the DE that he can't cook at all, and Sarah is doing all the cooking.
In the original Tommy is much more presented as a victim of circumstances who reluctantly gets dragged into the mob life, in the DE he is presented as enthusiastic, who relishes the opportunity, and even enjoys it initially.

But by far the biggest narrative change so far, is that in the original, Tommy decides on his own volition to let the girl go in the hotel, he is not put up to it by Sam. Which makes no sense as in the original Sam has a family, why would he care about a whore in a brothel? And at the end it's part of the reason they come after Tommy is because he let her and Frank go. Sam directly mentions that they found her later and taken care of her. That whole reasoning goes out of the window in DE, as Sam was the one who told Tommy to let her go.
But it's not the big changes that make it lackluster, it's lots of small changes in the dialogue, and added elements that left a very sour taste in my mouth. Almost every line is rewritten, and for the worse. The witty dialogue replaced with more generic lines with uneccessary swearing and a lack of class.

It's like the writers were desperate to leave their own mark on it, well they did, in the form of a big shitstain.


I was looking forward to picking this up... but if they changed that much, then I'll wait until it's dirt cheap.
 

Flogger23m

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I'll have to finish DE first to notice the differences, I'm about 3/4 through it. But the biggest changes I noticed so far:

In the original, Paulie is a very cool guy, friendly with everyone, even Raplhie, always there to help you. In the DE he's a complete ahole.
In the original it is established that Luigi is a great cook, this is changed in the DE that he can't cook at all, and Sarah is doing all the cooking.
In the original Tommy is much more presented as a victim of circumstances who reluctantly gets dragged into the mob life, in the DE he is presented as enthusiastic, who relishes the opportunity, and even enjoys it initially.

But by far the biggest narrative change so far, is that in the original, Tommy decides on his own volition to let the girl go in the hotel, he is not put up to it by Sam. Which makes no sense as in the original Sam has a family, why would he care about a whore in a brothel? And at the end it's part of the reason they come after Tommy is because he let her and Frank go. Sam directly mentions that they found her later and taken care of her. That whole reasoning goes out of the window in DE, as Sam was the one who told Tommy to let her go.
But it's not the big changes that make it lackluster, it's lots of small changes in the dialogue, and added elements that left a very sour taste in my mouth. Almost every line is rewritten, and for the worse. The witty dialogue replaced with more generic lines with uneccessary swearing and a lack of class.

It's like the writers were desperate to leave their own mark on it, well they did, in the form of a big shitstain.


They do reference Sam's reasoning in the end of the DE, but still seems a bit awkward. I assumed he wanted to use it as leverage against Tommy in the future, but the build up was non-existent. It was just "we found she was still alive so we killed her, and you were the one who let her go so you have to pay for it". Since they went with said change/edition, they needed to add a bit more context and gradual dissatisfaction of Tommy with the gang. Which is why it seemed fairly abrupt. The change itself is okay, they just failed to flesh it out.

Since they didn't go all the way, they should've left it as is in the original. Makes more sense. Tommy was reluctant to be in the gang, having second thoughts, gradually second guessing his involvement throughout. Then gets caught. Seems more logical in the original.
 

M76

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They do reference Sam's reasoning in the end of the DE, but still seems a bit awkward. I assumed he wanted to use it as leverage against Tommy in the future, but the build up was non-existent. It was just "we found she was still alive so we killed her, and you were the one who let her go so you have to pay for it". Since they went with said change/edition, they needed to add a bit more context and gradual dissatisfaction of Tommy with the gang. Which is why it seemed fairly abrupt. The change itself is okay, they just failed to flesh it out.

Since they didn't go all the way, they should've left it as is in the original. Makes more sense. Tommy was reluctant to be in the gang, having second thoughts, gradually second guessing his involvement throughout. Then gets caught. Seems more logical in the original.

OK, I've finished it. What a mess.

They left that part in makes absolutely zero sense. Oh I asked you to let her go now I'm using that against you? LOL. In the original Sam's only fault was that he was loyal to Saleri, but not evil like here. Also what is changed that in the original the very reason that triggers Paulie and Tommy to do the bank job, is that Salieri doesn't tell them about the diamonds in the cigar boxes. THere is no dope at all Salieri is actually principled in that. It makes much more sense that way. But I Guess their goal was to "circumvent expectations" Also in the original before salieri gets to the warehouse they hatch a plan to ask salieri if he wants them to unload the crates or not. So they can confirm that he knows about the diamonds or not. In the DE, the question is carried over but the setup is missing. It looses all meaning this way. And there were dozens of little errors like this in the DE, where either the setup or the delivery or the punchline is butchered.
I'll write a not so kind review tomorrow. I already gave it the thumbs down on steam. It is sad, because the graphics is very good, and the gameplay is decent enough sans a few parts. But what really bugs me that a lot of people will only experience this butchered version of the game, and they'll never know.
 

Flogger23m

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OK, I've finished it. What a mess.

Also what is changed that in the original the very reason that triggers Paulie and Tommy to do the bank job, is that Salieri doesn't tell them about the diamonds in the cigar boxes. THere is no dope at all Salieri is actually principled in that. It makes much more sense that way.

Honestly that was the biggest thing that stuck out. Seemed like Tom's decision to go ahead with Paulie was out of place in the DE. Its okay to execute public officials, but selling dope is the breaking point? Hiding diamonds (withholding the real worth to undercut Tom) and breaking the trust seems much more logical. An eye for an eye. Go behind my back, I'll go behind yours and rob a bank. Original version does make more sense.

Probably would've been best if the left it like the original.
 

Q-BZ

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Some of the changes mystify me. I loved the original, warts and all. You don't mess with the a classic.

The narrative and story should not have been messed with above all else. Certain gameplay and other aspects could have been left to menu options and things of that nature.
 
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Bigbacon

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The witty dialogue replaced with more generic lines with uneccessary swearing and a lack of class.

this sounds more like the dev had only seen good fellas where mafia folk just swear up a storm because they are mafia instead of being the more classy mafia people, which is what the game was all about in the original.

either that or they decided that swearing = edgy and we need the game to be edgy.
 

MavericK

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Sounds hugely disappointing. I was looking forward to playing the original game with better graphics, but it sounds like they fucked it up.
 

M76

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Sounds hugely disappointing. I was looking forward to playing the original game with better graphics, but it sounds like they fucked it up.
Perhaps not everyone is as sensitive to the changes as I am. When I first started playing it was just a feeling in the back of my head that something is not right, but couldn't point to anything concrete. After the 3rd or 4th mission it was bugging me so much that I looked up a walkthrough video of the original to compare and that confirmed the rewrites. From then on I knew that any time something is off the fault is not with me, it is them.
 

Colonel Sanders

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Sounds hugely disappointing. I was looking forward to playing the original game with better graphics, but it sounds like they fucked it up.

I dunno, it has nearly 8,000 reviews on Steam now with 87% positive ratings. Don't let M76's usual "black or white" views on games dissuade you from trying it and forming your own opinion. Or do let it, I don't care.
 

MavericK

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I dunno, it has nearly 8,000 reviews on Steam now with 87% positive ratings. Don't let M76's usual "black or white" views on games dissuade you from trying it and forming your own opinion. Or do let it, I don't care.

I wonder how many of those people played the original? I remember the original quite fondly, seems like this one wouldn't be for me.
 

M76

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I dunno, it has nearly 8,000 reviews on Steam now with 87% positive ratings. Don't let M76's usual "black or white" views on games dissuade you from trying it and forming your own opinion. Or do let it, I don't care.
They'll gobble up anything until the tube tells them they need to review bomb something. I've also noticed an increase in the amount of shills on steam for every game. Even if you put out the most well argued criticism about any game in the discussions there is always someone who will instantly shill for it and dismiss your claims as unreasonable. It's almost as if steam employs paid shills for every game, but how would I know? I've found that negative reviews are much more helpful on steam than positive ones. I always scroll down until I find some longer ones. that list the reasons why they downvoted the game.
 

M76

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I wonder how many of those people played the original? I remember the original quite fondly, seems like this one wouldn't be for me.
Even if they played they might not remember it all that well. I barely remembered, despite finishing it a dozen times at least.
 

Ebernanut

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Based on screenshots the game looks nice and seems to stay true to the original(I even recognize a few locations) so it's a shame to hear they decided to do such an extensive rewrite. All they needed to do was give the game modern graphics, fix the clunky controls, and maybe give some of the vehicles a bit more pep(that taxi at the beginning is AWFUL).
 

M76

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Mack's initial impressions...not good.

LOL, I've had a similar reaction to it. The first mission is the worst of all, juts saying. The rest is not as badly butchered as this one, although they still extensively changed all of them.
 
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