Mach One, a Chimera x NCASE collaboration

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by wahaha360, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. M4rk

    M4rk Gawd

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    Gross, but that's just me. I have bad memories of being forced to do graphic design and video editing for a bank on a slow-ass Apple thing back in 2015. At least the screen was nice.
     
  2. rfarmer

    rfarmer [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have to say that looks pretty badass.
     
  3. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah, always best to judge an entire product lineup from experiences with one singular machine...
     
  4. M4rk

    M4rk Gawd

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    That's an entirely different discussion and my comment you quoted was all in good fun. Don't be a tightass.
     
  5. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    LwOfVxn.jpg

    This is second one I broke, man, maybe I should just stick to air cooling.
     
  6. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    From left to right, DAN Cases A4, NCASE M1, Chimera Industries Mach One
    6DPfkZQm.jpg n3Dm1Npm.jpg

    From top to bottom, DAN Cases A4, NCASE M1, Chimera Industries Mach One
    C1P0vRZm.jpg hwqEcd4m.jpg

    ZizIdVjm.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
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  7. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    Out of curiosity, how much larger would the case be if it supported ATX? Because if it's 20L or smaller I feel like it would be worth it.
     
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  8. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    kb2kcsIl.jpg UFcnTKCl.jpg

    To support ATX with any decent cooling, you are looking at 23L+.

    The issue is expectations for ATX support. People with ATX boards will expect 165mm CPU cooler, 280 radiator / 360mm radiator. If you factor in these basic amenities, it's not small increase in size to accommodate.
     
  9. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    Right, 23L is definitely not worth it. I had the thought because the Mach One single-chamber config seems like a rotated Cerebrus with a full-length window, and the Cerebrus-X ATX case is only about a liter larger at 19L.
     
  10. Aluminyum

    Aluminyum n00b

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    Actually, it's over 23L if you include feet and side panels.

    Oh, and it's spelled "Cerberus".
     
  11. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    I have the Cerberus X.

    It's 23L by limiting CPU air cooler height to 145mm, which is 20mm less than the 165mm needed for the Noctua D15 or equivalent class of coolers. If you made the Cerberus 20mm wider to support Nocuta D15 or equivalent coolers, the dimensions will be 192x358x380mm, about 26.6L. You see how volume is particularly sensitive to width.

    I don't think people with ATX motherboards are willing to forgo Noctua D15 or equivalent support. So it puts the Cerberus at strange position.

    In contrast, Mini-ITX + Noctua D15 or Micro-ATX + Noctua D15 users are likely less common relative to those with ATX mobo, so people might be more forgiving on the Mach One component support.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  12. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    And what are the real dimensions of the original Cerberus? I was really under the impression that the X version was only a liter larger. By the way, Noctua's new U12S is supposed to perform on par with the D15, but it's still 158mm tall.

    By the way, I respectfully disagree with the reasoning of an ATX builder "expecting" certain support. SFFLab cases are very niche, people who buy them know what they're getting. The Mach One itself makes sacrifices that a normal person who randomly bought it for their mATX system would find disappointing, but that's not who is buying these cases, it's people who know the trade-offs and value SFF.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  13. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    I think you might be referring to the regular Cerberus, which supports Mini-ITX and Mirco-ATX, not ATX, it's also 18.5L (172x364x319mm).

    I agree that these cases are niche, but I also have inside info, including the Cerberus and Cerberus X. For a product to be viable in the long term, it has to appeal to those outside of the SFF community.

    With so many case projects on forums competing for air, it's even harder to launch products these days. Crowdfunding fatigue doesn't help either. Based on my observations and my preference for air cooling in general, I arrived at such conclusion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
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  14. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    Someone asked about the Mach One inside the Wallye Duffle, so here it is in case you guys are curious.

    One bag fits all - Mach One, Full Size Keyboard, Mouse, Headphone, Elgato Capture Card, MacBook Pro in another pocket.
    7ylfWChl.jpg
     
  15. Aluminyum

    Aluminyum n00b

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    It may sound a bit crazy, but how about an optional side panel with a protrusion? This way the Mach One could support larger CPU coolers without a change to its primary volume.
    The Cerberus X is 61mm taller. Sliger Designs just seem to prefer advertising its internal volume (19.43L).
     
  16. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    That's fair, thanks for the detailed response!

    Question about the MachOne -- if I have the basic setup of mATX + 240/280 AIO + aircooled GPU, what configuration would yield the best GPU temperatures? It seems to me that the choice is either to have the GPU almost touch the radiator or to move it to over the motherboard (or do the back-to-back thing) which will put the intake up against the glass. In one case airflow is a bit restricted, in the other it will be intaking straight out of the radiator. Is blower-style recommended? Seems to me that with streamlined front-to-back airflow, an open-air card might perform better because the warm air will get pushed out. The case seems ideally optimized for a full custom loop, but that's not something most people would do, so I'm wondering what the best option is for aircooled GPU + AIO for the CPU.

    Also, could a 3.5" drive fit anywhere in any of the configurations? The only thing I'm thinking of is a 5.25" to 3.5" adapter for the top.
     
  17. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    One double slot GPU or two double slot GPU?
     
  18. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    With mATX you can do a 240 AIO in either Gear 1 or Gear 2 mode; with Gear 3 you would not be able to have an AIO up front...

    I would think blower-style GPUs would not fare well, as they would be exhausting into the space up top for I/O cabling...

    The top 5 1/4" bay, while initially one may think it is spacious, is not; this is because the motherboard I/O is also up top, and anything that is really much deeper than the EK single bay res / pump combo used in the Computex build will interfere with the I/O...

    Personally, I see this as the perfect chassis for a full custom loop water cooled ITX-based workstation build; but that WC will run about 850 bucks...!
     
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  19. Chapeau

    Chapeau Gawd

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    :cry: Easy does it - the screws and threading on all water cooling components are just to squeeze the o-ring enough to create a seal. They shouldn't be loose, but really they're not far off.
    As soon as you see that o-ring flatten out, it's time to stop.
    upload_2018-6-27_10-21-28.png

    Perhaps you know already - but the sequence of tightening also matters!
     
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  20. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    Just one.
     
  21. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    For mATX + 240 AIO + air cooled GPU:

    - in Gear 1, ~17mm from the 240 AIO to double slot GPU, should be enough for airflow. BTW, cannot use 280 AIO on mATX - the 280 radiator interferes with the Micro-ATX mobo.

    - in Gear 2, ~ 25mm from the window o double slot GPU, should be enough for blower GPU, for open cooler, prob ok (25mm > one *single gpu slot, the typical spacing for two open cooler GPUs). Dual 120mm/140mm fans blowing into the GPU def helps.

    rIHl5j9l.jpg 8siwsx8l.jpg

    Gear 1 is for air cooling and would recommend air cooling if you can.

    For Gear 1 + air cooling, with dual 140mm fans, there is ~ 46mm gap to the double slot GPU. For CPU air cooler, the Noctua U9S (140W limit) and Cryorig H7 Quad Lumi (160W limit) should work. If you put the Noctua 120mm Sterrox fans on the Cryorig H7 QL, it will be even better. Unless you are running Threadripper or need double window, air cooling works.

    CW2udRgl.jpg


    Working on it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  22. Aluminyum

    Aluminyum n00b

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    wahaha360, just in case: that was an actual suggestion. I, for one, would be really interested in such an option, as sacrificing both ATX and good cooling is too much for me. Incidentally, the H7 Quad Lumi was deemed a failure by this very website.
     
  23. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    I bought one for testing. I’m trying to figure out how much better it is or can be compare to the Noctua U9S.

    The H7QL mounting and fan is meh, but the cooler height, mass, fin density has potential. The H7QL has the same mass excluding fan as the Noctua U12. The real question is can one get the most out of the H7 QL with some tweaks (better mounting, 2 more heat pipes).

    If yes, maybe SFFLAB can work with Cryprig on a custom variant.
     
  24. Aluminyum

    Aluminyum n00b

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    Hmm... In that case, why not ask Noctua about a shorter NH-U12S? As a matter of fact, a cooler of that size seems to be the only thing missing from their lineup.
     
  25. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    Noctua didn't seem interested :(
     
  26. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    ssuc3mil.jpg

    The things you have to do to make a product :p
     
  27. Aluminyum

    Aluminyum n00b

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    Too bad... Incidentally, did you test any top-flow coolers with the Mach One?
    RGB-decontamination wipes?
     
  28. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    Thank you so much for the detailed explanation. What about the C14S with it exhausting toward the glass? Seems to work well with the M1.
     
  29. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    The Noctua C14S will fit, the case has about 10mm more gap from the side panel to the CPU cooler compare to the M1 (Mach One is 10mm wider too)/
     
  30. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    I know it fits, but I was wondering what your opinion was on how it would perform. You seemed to recommend the U9S or H7 instead. It seems like with directional airflow, the C14S would outperform them.
     
  31. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    The C14S will perform better than the U9S with perforated side panel, I don't know about windowed or solid panel.

    The Cryorig H7 QL I will not know until further testing.
     
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  32. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    Could you do 280mm AIO with mATX if you used slim fans?
     
  33. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    You can do mATX with 280 AIO via upgrade kit. The 280AIO would have to be on the side, and sacrifice the window.
     
  34. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    Gear 1 compatibility test.

    - 2x Noctua 140 + Titan XP + X299EITX + i9 7900X + Cryorig H7QL on 2x Noctua 120 + SF600
    - 2x Noctua 140 + Titan XP + X299EITX + i9 7900X + Cryorig H7QL on 2x Noctua 120 + SF600 + EK 100 D5
    - 2x Noctua 140 + Titan XP + X299EITX + i9 7900X + Cryorig H7QL on 2x Noctua 120 + SF600 + EK 100 DDC
    yGibUcfm.jpg n3uc61km.jpg sYkKZwNm.jpg

    - 2x Noctua 140 + EK CE 280 Radiator + Titan XP on EK-FC + X299EITX + i9 7900X + Cryorig H7QL on 2x Noctua 120 + SF600 + EK 100 D5
    - 2x Noctua 140 + EK CE 280 Radiator + Titan XP on EK-FC + X299EITX + i9 7900X + Cryorig H7QL on 2x Noctua 120 + SF600 + EK 100 DDC
    - 2x Noctua 140 + EK CE 280 Radiator + Titan XP on EK-FC Rotary + X299EITX + i9 7900X + Cryorig H7QL on 2x Noctua 120 + SF600 + EK 100 D5
    - 2x Noctua 140 + EK CE 280 Radiator + Titan XP on EK-FC Rotary + X299EITX + i9 7900X + Cryorig H7QL on 2x Noctua 120 + SF600 + EK 100 DDC
    kV18WqGm.jpg KBXC41zm.jpg uLCCCBum.jpg I3GtDdfm.jpg

    - 2x Noctua 140 + MSI1070ITX + X299EITX + i9 7900X + Cryorig H7QL on 2x Noctua 120 + SF600
    - 2x Noctua 140 + EK CE 280 Radiator + MSI1070ITX + X299EITX + i9 7900X + Cryorig H7QL on 2x Noctua 120 + SF600 + EK 100 D5
    - 2x Noctua 140 + EK CE 280 Radiator + MSI1070ITX + X299EITX + i9 7900X + Cryorig H7QL on 2x Noctua 120 + SF600 + EK 100 DDC
    R2CdNWWm.jpg IZv4GGYm.jpg rMA8vIJm.jpg
     
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  35. amagus

    amagus n00b

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    Would an EK-MLC Phoenix 280 fit in this with both the CPU and GPU modules in a single loop? The pre-filled tubes for these seem kind of long and it seems like the limited space for tubing in this case could be an issue.

    Also, I don't see the specs for how many 2.5" drives you could put in there, if any.

    Thanks!
     
  36. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    The MLC Phoenix 280 + Mini-ITX will fit, it was designed with it in mind on a single loop.

    the 2.5" drive bays are mounted on the bottom of the chassis, the number supported depends on config, but minimum two, targeting minimum four for all 3 gears.
     
  37. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    I have to do something with G-UNIQ guryhwa for Aug and Sep, Mach One is on hold for a bit. I been planning a collaboration with G-UNIQ since 2017, it's go time and it will suck up all of my free time.


    3lfk1ng is prob 50% done with prototype 1 testing. Testing highlight so far:

    • temps are surprisingly good
      E2XU9VL.png
    • Sterrox 120mm fans performed better than Chromax 140mm with EK CE280 (280x45mm)
    • most setup will be fine on *single 280x45mm radiator at 16FPI push only
    • likes modularity (every part could be upgraded without a whole new case)
    • likes the look and looks expensive
    • don't like 1mm SECC on the inside, too thin (upgrading to 1.5mm aluminum on prototype 2)
    * Custom 22FPI EK CE280 on push-pull planned for prototype 2 testing, be a while for these numbers

    The new TR2 is around the corner, we need to find someone with 2990X for prototype 2 testing.

    I will revisit the project with fresh eyes in October, double check everything before prototype 2.
     
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  38. Aluminyum

    Aluminyum n00b

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    Do you want stripped threads? Because that's how you get stripped threads.

    Jokes aside, how heavy would the case get with a thicker SECC frame?
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  39. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    The chassis at 1.5mm SECC would increase weight from 3.5kg to 4.5kg at minium, the shipping cost will increase by $10-$15 depending on the country..
    Steel threaded inserts can address this problem.

    The weight will increase by 50% with 1.5mm SECC Steel, shipping will be 50%-100% more - not worth it.
     
  40. Aluminyum

    Aluminyum n00b

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    Ouch... I see.
    Sounds like a plan.