M-Audio revolution 7.1: an unpleasant suprise

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DFI Daishi

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
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i have been using onboard audio for a good while now, and it's been okay for the most part. the sound isn't perfect, but it's good enough for my games and the music souds just fine while i'm writing or doing research using the computer.

however, going from my old NF2 with soundstorm and stereo to 5.1 emulation to my current NF3 which does not do the conversion properly, i was a bit annoyed. i had my speakers set up to clone the two rear channels from the front two and it sounded quite good, but my certer speaker was just ornamental and i couldn't distinguish between noises from the front and noises from the rear in-game. not the end of the world but not ideal.

so, now that i have some summer income and i'm not going to be able to do any major upgrades this summer, i decided to pick up the revolution 7.1 for myself.

i was really psyched at the thought of being able to have proper 5.1 audio again.

i'm using the yamaha TSS-1 speaker and tuner package, so i set the card for digital output since that's the only way to get a 5.1 signal into the thing.

what's that? no surround sound encoding while using the digital connection?

WHAAAAAAAT?!?!?!?!?!

do they mention this anywhere? not that i've found.

okay.....calm down......let's see if it'll at least pass a 5.1 digital stream from a DVD......hmm, yep it can do that just fine.......

i know fully well that most computer users have analogue connections to their speakers, but i picked up a proper sound card just for that digital connection. i will be giving them a call monday, but needless to say that i'm not a happy camper.

they really sould mention this fact on the spec sheet.

then again, the quick instalation instructions that the card is packaged with are incorrect, so maybe full discolsure in their specs is a bit much to ask of this company.
 
Yea, when I start to get interested in computer audio (after having slight experience with home audio/video), I was shocked to find out that the digital output on most cards does not transmit surround sound (like in computer games). Although most can pass through DTS / DD.

What surprises me more, is that its been quite a few years now, and most cards out there STILL do not do this.

Sorry you had to learn this the hard way, and I do agree that it's a shame its not more documented (but its clear why its not).
 
OMG My new TV tuner card does not get the Spice channel unless I connect it to my cable box!!!!!!!
And then I have to pay to get that channel! :(

Funny because when I checked the web page for this card it never said I would get free Spice channel.
Is that my fault for assuming I would get free anything or theirs because they never suggested I would get this service? ;)

what's that? no surround sound encoding while using the digital connection?

WHAAAAAAAT?!?!?!?!?!

do they mention this anywhere? not that i've found.
Click to expand...

Did M-Audio ever suggest that the card did have the ability to encode a multichannel digital audio stream in real time? :confused:
 
Well, it's 5.1 and has digital connections. He had no reason to believe that it wouldn't. Would you be surprised if your card wouldn't do 5.1 via. analog?
 
Very VERY few cards have this feature, which is called "Dolby Digital Live".

It is a very new technology -- generally, one needs to be a recording studio to encode something in Dolby Digital, and a few cards are now capable of doing it in realtime, without actually being a recording studio...
 
Mister X said:
Funny because when I checked the web page for this card it never said I would get free Spice channel.
Is that my fault for assuming I would get free anything or theirs because they never suggested I would get this service? ;)
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i'm not interested in the spice channel, and i'm not talking about the spice channel.

then again, neither are you, really.

the web page never said that i COULD do what i purchased this card hoping that it could do, but then again it also never said that i COULDN'T do what i intended to do.

such differences make the world go 'round.

yes?

we're not dealing with the legal precedant set by the americans who filed a class action suit against the french company selling monthly rights to the angry frog ring-tone because "some people can't read and it's immoral for a contract to assume that everyone can. they didn't know that it's a monthly fee rather than a one-time fee, so they should be compensated for their ignorance."

we're talking about a reasonably computer-savvy individual reading a carefully crafted document that could mislead power-users, not fool the few who are highly savvy about computer audio, and fly far over the heads of the general user.

i'm not saying that M-audio is legally in the wrong. they are quiete plainly legally in the right.

they have very carefully phrased what they have said in their tech documents such that it can easily be interpreted in a positive light.

having experienced what i have, i can quite clearly see what they have said for what it is: true to the word, and any interence based upon that is not their responsibility.

it's really quite a tribute to their leagal dept. and their writer.

all the same, documents that cite again and again how well the card is able to convert stereo to 5.1 and 7.1, without mentioning the limitations of that technology do no service to the end user.

Mister X said:
Did M-Audio ever suggest that the card did have the ability to encode a multichannel digital audio stream in real time? :confused:
Click to expand...
no, and upon carefull reading of their specs i realized this for myself.

they only SAY that it has the ability to encode a multi channel analogue audio streams in real time. any assumptions about the digital abilities of their card are the result of my own optimism while reading their documentation.

i realized this some hours before you so kindly pointed it out to me.

i now realize that upon careful reading their specs, they only say that this card can output PCM audio over the digital connection, and it will pass through DTS or DD audio on the digital connection.

they make no mention of being able to perform the stereo to surround converions while outputting through a digital connection.

however, they also make extensive note that the card can do stereo to 5.1 or 7.1 encoding, and it's only when you read very carefully that you realize that they ONLY say that the card can do so over the annalogue connections.

not once do they say that the card can NOT perform this encoding while outputting to a digital connection.

that is my issue.

i am a customer who got a really nice digital multi-channel experience from his NF2 onboard audio. please do pardon me for being a bit annoyed when a dedicated PCI sound card does not measure up to that standard, even if the spec does not explicitly promise that level of performance when carefully read.

as an aside: do you have a defense for the quick start guide instructing me to power off, install the card, power on, then install the drivers, and be good to go, when in fact i have to install the drivers, power off, install te card, power on, then complete the installation, while you're at it?
 
Mister X said:
Odd, because I found three of them in under a minute.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829118109

http://www.xoxide.com/auzentech-hda-xplosion-71dts-connect.html

http://www.xoxide.com/bluegears-xmystique-ddl-gold.html
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well, i'm able to find them in canada, but in quite a bit more than a minute, and they are a bit more dear than the M-audio i purchased.

i had not previously head of auzentech, and have only ever seen/heard $20 CDN turtlebeach sound cards.

i have head of creative and M-audio. i purchased M-audio because of my very positive experiences with the audtiophile 2496 that i have in my powermac for capturing and preserving old vinyl in FLAC format.

this revolution has been a rather unpleasant departure from that audiophile experience.
 
This is ridiculous. "Power users," as you put it, should know that 5.1 and 7.1 output over a digital connection is the exception, not the rule, in PC audio. M-Audio is certainly in no position to deceive the consumer of that, because the consumer thusfar has not likely encountered a card with such features, so they do not expect it. Furthermore, if you had consulted any third-party review of the Revolution 7.1, as you should have, you would have found no mention of these alleged features anywhere.
 
This boy expected a Revo 7.1 to simulate surround sound from a stereo source and output a digital signal of it's creation through the coax. (Just clearing it up into precis for those who were completely boggled by this thread.)
 
xonik said:
This is ridiculous. "Power users," as you put it, should know that 5.1 and 7.1 output over a digital connection is the exception, not the rule, in PC audio. M-Audio is certainly in no position to deceive the consumer of that, because the consumer thusfar has not likely encountered a card with such features, so they do not expect it. Furthermore, if you had consulted any third-party review of the Revolution 7.1, as you should have, you would have found no mention of these alleged features anywhere.
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as i previously mentioned, my previous generation onboard sound DID simulate surround sound and output it through the SPDIF optical or co-axial connections available.

apparently this is not the rule. fine. it was what i have previously experienced for an onboard solution, so it's the least that i expected from a dedicated sound card.

asus A7N8X deluxe did it.
abit NF7-S did it.
DFI lanparty NFII ultra B did it.
any board using the nForce2 MCP south bridge SHOULD be able to do it.

and the revolution 7.1 did not.

you say that 5.1 output over a digital connection is the exception rather than the rule. the onboard audio industry, and the majority of users who stick with onboard audio might have a different take on that.

as far as reviews go.......frankly, i have not read one where they actually used the digital out. the reviews i read were all positive, but none of them used the feature i want to use and am annoyed by the lack of.

am a i power user for sound cards? hell no. this is the first sound card i have purchased in about 4 years. i have not been doing any reading about sound cards during those years simply because i was not in the market. i read some reviews and i read and mis-interpreted the specs provided by M-audio prior to purchasing this card.

am i a power user in terms of overclocking, cooling, and hardware troubleshooting? i would tend to say that i most definately am.
 
DFI Daishi said:
you say that 5.1 output over a digital connection is the exception rather than the rule. the onboard audio industry, and the majority of users who stick with onboard audio might have a different take on that.
Click to expand...

Hardly.
The majority of people who bought nforce2 mobos would have gotten the luxury of realtime dolby encoding, but essentially no one else. I'm running on an nforce2 board right now and even I don't have that feature.

Until recently, the nforce2 was the only onboard audio that provided dolby live. This was a big feature, and they advertised it as such. It's also quite recent for add-on soundcards to provide the feature.

I admit, it's logical to assume that a card advertised as being 5.1 and having digital output would support this. But any investigation into whether this is common feature reveals that it is actually quite rare.
 
jimmyb said:
Hardly.
The majority of people who bought nforce2 mobos would have gotten the luxury of realtime dolby encoding, but essentially no one else. I'm running on an nforce2 board right now and even I don't have that feature.

Until recently, the nforce2 was the only onboard audio that provided dolby live. This was a big feature, and they advertised it as such. It's also quite recent for add-on soundcards to provide the feature.

I admit, it's logical to assume that a card advertised as being 5.1 and having digital output would support this. But any investigation into whether this is common feature reveals that it is actually quite rare.
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thank you for at least understanding the central thrust of my annoyance.

to be clear, i DID get out my google stick before i bpught this card: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=m-audio+revolution+7.1+review&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

all the top hits were largely positive, none of them made use of the feature i am upset that this card is missing, none of the top hits pointed out the issue that i am having.

no, i didn't hang out in computer audio forums for 6 months prior to buying, so i don't know every in and out of every sound card on the market, so when i read the spec i saw what i expected to see.

the spec says that this card does 5.1 and 7.1 emulation. the spec says that the card can output PCM or AC-3 over a SPDIF co-axial connection. it does not explicitly say that it the card can do both at once, and i'm not saying that it did........i just expected that it would, and see no reason why it doesn't.

so, hopefully a productive line of question to your sound guru's: why DOESN'T this card output 5.1 over digital? it seems to me that it only requires the 5.1 codec to be located before the SPDIF codec in the card's pipelline. why didn't they do it?

does the creative soundblaster X-Fi XtremeMusic support this feature? if not, i'm right screwed since creative is the only other make that the store i purchased my revolution at carries........and they are NOT going to want to give me a refund.
 
Mister X said:
SImple.
That codec did not exist when the Revo 7.1 was being developed.

Nope.
Click to expand...
thanks for the reply..........though i'm a bit confused how you are claiming that the codec didn't exist. i'm not talking about the dolby digital live codec, im just talking about passing the digital signal around within the card's existing codecs, even it the live standard had not yet been made.

oh well.........any other cards you'd like to reccomend in addition to those above? i have found them for sale in canada......just wondering if you have other reccomendations in the price range or warnings that accompany those cards.


just for your interest, linkage that accompanied a very generous offer from a comrade in elec eng: http://zone.ni.com/devzone/conceptd.nsf/webmain/9CE4DBED595B119A86256E6F00704A7A#2
 
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