Love Lace no time soon

Epyon

Gawd
Joined
Oct 25, 2001
Messages
935
Do you think with what is going on they will still launch it in 2022? I Mean I don't see this letting at all in 2021 as we are soon 3 months into this year. I Think they might delay it unless AMD pushes but why would they? People will still be looking for cards a year from now. I just want the tech to keep pushing forward even if i can't buy a card.
 

highlander2607

Weaksauce
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
107
I think that will be the key. What AMD does. Nvidia will not let AMD get ahead of them performance wise on the gpu's. If they push each other then I believe another gen card will launch in 2022.
 

evhvis

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2021
Messages
217
Nvidia is probably a bit scared of what AMD might do with their next generation so my guess is that they are pushing everything they can. Wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing chiplets GPUs soon from AMD with lower clocks to manage the heat, which must seem like a really scary thought for nvidia. Infinity cache is one of the steps towards chiplets as it reduces memory penalty of having an extra chip between the memory and the pipelines.

Expecting a high-end refresh in summer/fall 2021 from nvidia and an all new architecture summer/fall 2022. It is not like they can do a turnaround in 3 months if AMD suddenly launches something far more powerful as it takes time to create new GPUs and manufacture them. At most I think they would delay a launch by 3-6 months and build inventory, and then announce right after their competitor. Would be refreshing with an announcement for a product that people can actually buy.
 

Epyon

Gawd
Joined
Oct 25, 2001
Messages
935
Do you think With chiplets the card length is going to move beyond 300mm? I ask because I have a Dan A4 and want to take that with me offshore. I am hoping the cards get smaller or stay at or below 300mm. Not the end of the world because you can have custom cases made to fit that card.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
20,917
Ampere just came out 5 months ago...not even taking the supply issues into consideration it's too soon for another major GPU architecture to be released...2022 at the earliest...
 

evhvis

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2021
Messages
217
Do you think With chiplets the card length is going to move beyond 300mm? I ask because I have a Dan A4 and want to take that with me offshore. I am hoping the cards get smaller or stay at or below 300mm. Not the end of the world because you can have custom cases made to fit that card.
Depends on the PCB design and heat they produce. My current card is well beyond 30cm (think it is around 32.5cm long and 14cm wide) but the 3080 and 3090 founders edition have a really short PCB, it is only the cooler that is huge. The huge cards we saw this generation was mainly due to need for cooler capacity and it is cheaper to make a cooler than can work on both a 3080 and 3090 so many 3080 cards became larger than they needed to be.

Advantage of chiplets would be the ability to run multiple chips at speeds where they have much lower powerconsumption compared to performance. The 3080 doesn't scale linear in performance vs power draw and a lot of the power draw is from trying to get the last 20-30% of performance. If they managed to get two chiplets to work seamlessly together then I would expect them to get 20-50% more out of chiplets than a single chip for the same amount of watts. The issue is of course to get them working seamlessly together as the load is nowhere as "segmented" on a GPU compared to a CPU and you have the memory controller issue. AMD seems to have partially solved the memory issue with their infinity cache, even if it runs out of steam at 4k in the current iteration.
 

Starfalcon

Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
758
Yeah NV usually keeps their card generations around 2 years or so, and new cards have barely been out for 6 months at this point.
 

WilyKit

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
257
I don't think either AMD nor nVidia is worried about the other at this point. Supply is a common problem they both share and both need to get on top of. Doesn't do either one any good to be better than the competition if they don't have enough product to get into consumers hands.
 

evhvis

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2021
Messages
217
I don't think either AMD nor nVidia is worried about the other at this point. Supply is a common problem they both share and both need to get on top of. Doesn't do either one any good to be better than the competition if they don't have enough product to get into consumers hands.
It takes years to bring a new architecture to market. Seeing how close AMD got with the 6800xt and 6900xt will have Nvidia worried. Just because there is a shortage now doesn't mean they wont plan for the future. No one wants to have the bulldozer equivilant GPU. Having much more demand than inventory is a luxury problem, having much more inventory than demand is how you become the new 3dfx.
 

WilyKit

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
257
It takes years to bring a new architecture to market. Seeing how close AMD got with the 6800xt and 6900xt will have Nvidia worried. Just because there is a shortage now doesn't mean they wont plan for the future. No one wants to have the bulldozer equivilant GPU. Having much more demand than inventory is a luxury problem, having much more inventory than demand is how you become the new 3dfx.

nvidia has been around long enough to get the right amount of product to market. This is more of a supply issue that’s out of their hands and right now there’s no end in sight. I’m sure that’s more concerning than AMD coming out with a product no one can buy.
 

Epyon

Gawd
Joined
Oct 25, 2001
Messages
935
I hope amd keeps pushing hard. I am tied to Nvidia I hope the 18,000 cuda cores are true on a monolithic die with lower power requirements. I want to see chiplets in 3 years from Nvidia. Or love lace next year and then say 1 year later Nvidia drops chiplets. If amd really does launch those before Nvidia.
 

evhvis

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2021
Messages
217
nvidia has been around long enough to get the right amount of product to market. This is more of a supply issue that’s out of their hands and right now there’s no end in sight. I’m sure that’s more concerning than AMD coming out with a product no one can buy.
If you are looking at the long term health of your company, what is more concerning:
1) Both you and your competitor having less cards than you can sell for a year or so, partially due to very high demand and partially due to supply issues
2) Almost everyone buys your competitors product which is produced in high quantities and you have lots of stock leftover

If both the 3080 and 6800xt were widely available, but the 6800xt was 15% faster, instead of being about the same in rasterization and slower in raytracing, then Nvidia would have had a major issue on their hands. There will always be those that are brand loyal who would still purchase Nvidia, but a lot of people go for whatever is the better buy for their needs. I took a chance on Nvidia this generation due to the massive gains the 3080 had compared to the 2000 series and that my 1070 had been struggeling in games for well over a year, but I often swap between AMD and Nvidia. AMD had the issues with being slower for so many years and "launching" late so I ordered a 3080 on launchday (took 10 weeks for delivery), but if AMD had been out 2 months earlier and had cards in stock then I might have gone with a 6800xt or 6900xt.

Intel is a good example of what happens when you do not worry enough about the future. They went from having decent sized IPC gains to mostly pushing clocks and AMD caught up, then surpassed them. Very few would even have considered an AMD high end gaming system 5 years ago, but these days pretty much everyone I know who built a new system in the last 3 or so years went with AMD. Intel still has quite a quite large marketshare thanks to brand name, having their own foundries and lots of pre-built computers using Intel but they are nowhere as dominating as they were back in 2016.
 
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WilyKit

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
257
If you are looking at the long term health of your company, what is more concerning:
1) Both you and your competitor having less cards than you can sell for a year or so, partially due to very high demand and partially due to supply issues
2) Almost everyone buys your competitors product which is produced in high quantities and you have lots of stock leftover

If both the 3080 and 6800xt were widely available, but the 6800xt was 15% faster, instead of being about the same in rasterization and slower in raytracing, then Nvidia would have had a major issue on their hands. There will always be those that are brand loyal who would still purchase Nvidia, but a lot of people go for whatever is the better buy for their needs. I took a chance on Nvidia this generation due to the massive gains the 3080 had compared to the 2000 series and that my 1070 had been struggeling in games for well over a year, but I often swap between AMD and Nvidia. AMD had the issues with being slower for so many years and "launching" late so I ordered a 3080 on launchday (took 10 weeks for delivery), but if AMD had been out 2 months earlier and had cards in stock then I might have gone with a 6800xt or 6900xt.

Intel is a good example of what happens when you do not worry enough about the future. They went from having decent sized IPC gains to mostly pushing clocks and AMD caught up, then surpassed them. Very few would even have considered an AMD high end gaming system 5 years ago, but these days pretty much everyone I know who built a new system in the last 3 or so years went with AMD. Intel still has quite a quite large marketshare thanks to brand name, having their own foundries and lots of pre-built computers using Intel but they are nowhere as dominating as they were back in 2016.

But they NOT widely available, not even remotely close to resembling that either and haven't been for months. Heck, it's so bad the click-bait "huge supply next month" videos on Youtube aren't even being published anymore

nVidia wouldn't be reintroducing Pascal cards if AMD was more concerning to them than the current supply disaster is.

Here's the thing you're missing. Priorities can change depending on circumstance, and right now, what AMD is doing is nowhere near the concern you think it is, compared nVidia getting their supply issues sorted. See above sentence for evidence to support my position. See sentence below for further evidence to support it.

In fact, nVidia is so UN-concerned with what AMD is doing, that the unicorn 3080Ti which was on the verge of release according to rumors, has been postponed. As far as I know, indefinitely.

Fact of the matter is the make-believe scenario you typed out is just that. Make-believe. Supply isn't plentiful and AMD isn't faster. If/When the situation changes, then maybe AMD will be on nVidia's radar but until that happens, nVidia will continue to worry about their own problems.
 

evhvis

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2021
Messages
217
But they NOT widely available, not even remotely close to resembling that either and haven't been for months. Heck, it's so bad the click-bait "huge supply next month" videos on Youtube aren't even being published anymore

nVidia wouldn't be reintroducing Pascal cards if AMD was more concerning to them than the current supply disaster is.

Here's the thing you're missing. Priorities can change depending on circumstance, and right now, what AMD is doing is nowhere near the concern you think it is, compared nVidia getting their supply issues sorted. See above sentence for evidence to support my position. See sentence below for further evidence to support it.

In fact, nVidia is so UN-concerned with what AMD is doing, that the unicorn 3080Ti which was on the verge of release according to rumors, has been postponed. As far as I know, indefinitely.

Fact of the matter is the make-believe scenario you typed out is just that. Make-believe. Supply isn't plentiful and AMD isn't faster. If/When the situation changes, then maybe AMD will be on nVidia's radar but until that happens, nVidia will continue to worry about their own problems.
Nvidia's gaming devision just posted record revenue for 4th quarter, which would indicate they are selling a lot of cards. Available inventory doesn't equate to no cards sold.

Feel free to call it make believe just because I used released versions in an example. What you can not refute is that if Nvidia slacks off and AMD continues their current pace then that will be the result in the next generation. Do you honestly believe that Nvidia will slack off on development until AMD gets more production capacity and hope that AMD does no development in between? Just the fact that Nvidia put 12GB of ram on a 3060 shows they are taking notice of AMD. Only terrible management would ignore that your competitor has a product which a lot of people desire and say "but since they don't have enough stock we can relax and hope they don't produce a superior product for the next generation".
 

SnowBeast

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
1,312
https://www.world-today-news.com/nvidia-ampere-cards-sold-to-miners-for-175-million/

That's with in 2 months of launch! That was not including the whole tally of gamers that were able to get the cards. That's the highest demand yet, stripping supply hard. No one could keep up with that kind of demand. And with all the Covid delays, it's actually amazing they had this much stock to sell in the first place.
It isn't just Nvidia, daughter sent me the receiver isle picture at BB today in Novi, Michigan. There is electronics shortage bigger than GPU's too, to boot.
 

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WilyKit

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
257
Nvidia's gaming devision just posted record revenue for 4th quarter, which would indicate they are selling a lot of cards. Available inventory doesn't equate to no cards sold.

Feel free to call it make believe just because I used released versions in an example. What you can not refute is that if Nvidia slacks off and AMD continues their current pace then that will be the result in the next generation. Do you honestly believe that Nvidia will slack off on development until AMD gets more production capacity and hope that AMD does no development in between? Just the fact that Nvidia put 12GB of ram on a 3060 shows they are taking notice of AMD. Only terrible management would ignore that your competitor has a product which a lot of people desire and say "but since they don't have enough stock we can relax and hope they don't produce a superior product for the next generation".

Where did you read that I think nvidia will slack off?

I said nvidia is more concerned with supply than what AMD is doing right now and provided evidence of what’s actually happened to back that up. Youre disagreeing which is perfectly fine and backed your position up with a hypothetical that is the exact opposite of what’s actually happening, which is hilarious.

So yea, if reality mimicked your hypothetical I’d agree with you. But reality isnt so I don’t.
 
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