Louis Rossmann DISMANTLES Apple's PR stunt "repair program"

Aurelius

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Louis Rossmann's routine is getting old. Not to say there aren't legitimate gripes, but he tends to find conspiracies where there aren't any (claiming US customs was conspiring with Apple to seize his battery imports, for example) and has a vested interest in steering people away from official Apple repairs even when they are the best option.

Besides, the Windows fans who use this for anti-Apple diatribes seemingly aren't familiar with the concept of irony. You're supposed to run screaming from Apple into the open arms of... Dell, HP, Lenovo and other big brands that are not only notorious for worse support (repeated ineffective fixes, uneducated phone techs), but are more likely to have problems that require support in the first place. Insisting on "right to repair" isn't going to change a flimsy laptop chassis or a crappy trackpad design.
 

Starfalcon

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He does support right to repair, something we have for pretty much anything else. You arent forced to take your car to the dealer for repairs , or appliances only to the manufacturer to fix. No reason apple should be special, and this would cut down on ewaste which is a serious problem now. the only thing right to repair hurts is company profit margins.
 

Fremunaln

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Louis Rossmann's routine is getting old. Not to say there aren't legitimate gripes, but he tends to find conspiracies where there aren't any (claiming US customs was conspiring with Apple to seize his battery imports, for example) and has a vested interest in steering people away from official Apple repairs even when they are the best option.

Besides, the Windows fans who use this for anti-Apple diatribes seemingly aren't familiar with the concept of irony. You're supposed to run screaming from Apple into the open arms of... Dell, HP, Lenovo and other big brands that are not only notorious for worse support (repeated ineffective fixes, uneducated phone techs), but are more likely to have problems that require support in the first place. Insisting on "right to repair" isn't going to change a flimsy laptop chassis or a crappy trackpad design.

2 things come to mind.

1) The terms of apple service provider program seem outrageous...Even if you terminate your contract with the program, why does Apple seem to have contractual language that effectively keeps you in a contract?

2) Apple is the leader in consumer hardware market visibility. PC buyers, at least the non-techie folks always include Apple in their sentences when purchasing items. What ever they do, kinda sets a market precedence (different from hardware firsts). My point is that if they start pulling stupid, folks in the industry who were standing by their awesome repair policies will also let go. I refer to Lenovo whose aggressively moving to soldered hardware in thinkpads.
 

Aurelius

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2 things come to mind.

1) The terms of apple service provider program seem outrageous...Even if you terminate your contract with the program, why does Apple seem to have contractual language that effectively keeps you in a contract?

2) Apple is the leader in consumer hardware market visibility. PC buyers, at least the non-techie folks always include Apple in their sentences when purchasing items. What ever they do, kinda sets a market precedence (different from hardware firsts). My point is that if they start pulling stupid, folks in the industry who were standing by their awesome repair policies will also let go. I refer to Lenovo whose aggressively moving to soldered hardware in thinkpads.

Not denying that there are issues; it's more that Rossmann makes a sensationalist, misrepresentative claim ("Apple wants your data!") and positions himself as the solution to it.

You're right that Apple sets precedents that aren't great for DIY repairs, but at the same time, it seems odd to insist that companies can't pursue certain design directions if there are benefits. For example: removable batteries are nice, but it's hard to offer true water and dust resistance when you do. I don't think Apple is cackling with diabolical glee when it solders storage to the mainboard; I just think it wants to allow for a thinner device, or more room for components like batteries and cooling.
 

M76

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and has a vested interest in steering people away from official Apple repairs even when they are the best option.
When did he steer away people from official apple repairs when that was the best option? When is it the best option anyway apart from when your device is still in warranty and you can actually get them to replace it?

BTW windows users have nothing to do with apple, why do you even bring that up? That doesn't change how apple fools their customers when they tell them that their device that can be easily fixed by Rossman and the likes is irreparable or needs a $2000 MB replacement which they do in 4 weeks? It's not even just the fact that they make them pay for a new one, but the fact that lots of these people loose data over this because apple told them if it doesn't turn on the data is forever gone.
 

Master_shake_

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When did he steer away people from official apple repairs when that was the best option? When is it the best option anyway apart from when your device is still in warranty and you can actually get them to replace it?

BTW windows users have nothing to do with apple, why do you even bring that up? That doesn't change how apple fools their customers when they tell them that their device that can be easily fixed by Rossman and the likes is irreparable or needs a $2000 MB replacement which they do in 4 weeks? It's not even just the fact that they make them pay for a new one, but the fact that lots of these people loose data over this because apple told them if it doesn't turn on the data is forever gone.
remember when linus' mac pro broke and apple was willing to fix it even when linus said it wasn't a warranty repair and apple gladly took his money and fixed his mac pro

neither do i it was the complete opposite.

louis fixed it for him
 

Aurelius

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When did he steer away people from official apple repairs when that was the best option? When is it the best option anyway apart from when your device is still in warranty and you can actually get them to replace it?

BTW windows users have nothing to do with apple, why do you even bring that up? That doesn't change how apple fools their customers when they tell them that their device that can be easily fixed by Rossman and the likes is irreparable or needs a $2000 MB replacement which they do in 4 weeks? It's not even just the fact that they make them pay for a new one, but the fact that lots of these people loose data over this because apple told them if it doesn't turn on the data is forever gone.

I said HE HAS A VESTED INTEREST in steering people away. He doesn't have to explicitly steer people off, he just has to portray Apple's repair system as an eeeeevil boogeyman using loaded language and dubious accusations. And did you actually read what you wrote? "Apart from when your device is still in warranty..." so, a large chunk of the lifespan of many of Apple's products, then.

I brought the Windows user thing up precisely because they use language like yours when trying to attack Apple. They point to these videos, accuse Apple of deliberate malice (without proof of intent, of course) and act as if Windows PC makers are diehard right-to-repair advocates that would never steer you wrong. It's part of what I like to call the Only Apple Does Bad Things syndrome, where people single out Apple as some demonic entity while purposefully ignoring what their preferred vendors do (for example, blasting Apple over its factory conditions when many non-Apple vendors have similar or worse conditions). That's not to give Apple a free pass here, because some of its repair practices aren't good for customers -- the concern is that Rossmann is spinning an unsubstantiated narrative about why these practices exist, and Windows zealots use that as fodder.
 

M76

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I said HE HAS A VESTED INTEREST in steering people away. He doesn't have to explicitly steer people off, he just has to portray Apple's repair system as an eeeeevil boogeyman using loaded language and dubious accusations. And did you actually read what you wrote? "Apart from when your device is still in warranty..." so, a large chunk of the lifespan of many of Apple's products, then.
I asked when is it the best to go to apple to repair your apple device? You didn't answer. Even if it's in warranty chances are you loose your data and get a shoddily repaired unit back in weeks. So I repeat the only time when it is worth to go to apple is when you can get them to replace the product in warranty. Nice job quoting half my sentence out of context BTW.

I brought the Windows user thing up precisely because they use language like yours when trying to attack Apple.
What language is that, how are we trying to attack apple? By stating the fact that they tell falsehoods to their customers? There are lots of well documented cases where they told the customer one thing, when the issue was something entirely different.

They point to these videos, accuse Apple of deliberate malice (without proof of intent, of course)
It is irrelevant whether Apple deliberately screws over their customers or does it out of incompetence of their "repair" technicians. The result is the same: You're better off with reliable 3rd party repairs. And yes there are incompetent 3rd party repair shops as well, nobody denies it. Right to repair would mean you get options, anyone who wants can still go to the genius bar if it passes.

and act as if Windows PC makers are diehard right-to-repair advocates that would never steer you wrong.
That's only your projection. Right to repair would apply to everyone, not just apple. There are a few positive examples where a manufacturer provides documentation and parts mostly for prosumer devices. What is wrong with forcing them to do the same for all their products?

It's part of what I like to call the Only Apple Does Bad Things syndrome, where people single out Apple as some demonic entity while purposefully ignoring what their preferred vendors do
Normal people don't have preferred vendors, they choose products on specs and value. Again you're projecting how you feel about apple and assume everyone feels the same about some other manufacturer.
There is no apple vs dell here. In my book, dell,asus, etc is just as bad as apple, or worse in some cases. God knows I've dealt with dell support enough to know they aren't saints either.
(for example, blasting Apple over its factory conditions when many non-Apple vendors have similar or worse conditions). That's not to give Apple a free pass here, because some of its repair practices aren't good for customers -- the concern is that Rossmann is spinning an unsubstantiated narrative about why these practices exist, and Windows zealots use that as fodder.
Foxconn does manufacturing for many vendors not juts apple, but I don't see how is that relevant. Every consumer would gain from right to repair, and the industry shills who oppose it should be ashamed, but these people who lobby for money have no shame unfortunately.
 
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Fremunaln

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Not denying that there are issues; it's more that Rossmann makes a sensationalist, misrepresentative claim ("Apple wants your data!") and positions himself as the solution to it.

You're right that Apple sets precedents that aren't great for DIY repairs, but at the same time, it seems odd to insist that companies can't pursue certain design directions if there are benefits. For example: removable batteries are nice, but it's hard to offer true water and dust resistance when you do. I don't think Apple is cackling with diabolical glee when it solders storage to the mainboard; I just think it wants to allow for a thinner device, or more room for components like batteries and cooling.

Apple is not guilty of the exact same issue? Apple has misrepresented claims of data loss and compromised security if you get your screen changed or battery changed at anyone other then apple...

Apple has stated that data recovery from damaged iphones is impossible, and the only solution is to buy a new device...false

I would love for all parties involved to play fair, but its foolish to believe that any one party will nor will anyone act without their own self interest
 

Meeho

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I said HE HAS A VESTED INTEREST in steering people away. He doesn't have to explicitly steer people off, he just has to portray Apple's repair system as an eeeeevil boogeyman using loaded language and dubious accusations. And did you actually read what you wrote? "Apart from when your device is still in warranty..." so, a large chunk of the lifespan of many of Apple's products, then.

I brought the Windows user thing up precisely because they use language like yours when trying to attack Apple. They point to these videos, accuse Apple of deliberate malice (without proof of intent, of course) and act as if Windows PC makers are diehard right-to-repair advocates that would never steer you wrong. It's part of what I like to call the Only Apple Does Bad Things syndrome, where people single out Apple as some demonic entity while purposefully ignoring what their preferred vendors do (for example, blasting Apple over its factory conditions when many non-Apple vendors have similar or worse conditions). That's not to give Apple a free pass here, because some of its repair practices aren't good for customers -- the concern is that Rossmann is spinning an unsubstantiated narrative about why these practices exist, and Windows zealots use that as fodder.
Your diatribes are nothing but whataboutisms, straw men and red herrings. Please, shill less.
 

Aurelius

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I asked when is it the best to go to apple to repair your apple device? You didn't answer. Even if it's in warranty chances are you loose your data and get a shoddily repaired unit back in weeks. So I repeat the only time when it is worth to go to apple is when you can get them to replace the product in warranty. Nice job quoting half my sentence out of context BTW.

When it's in warranty and you have a backup? The same as it should be for any device you can back up, wherever you take it. Also, saying "chances are you loose [sic] your data and get a shoddily repaired unit back in weeks..." I'm sorry, but that's an unsupported claim, especially the last part about quality. Have you ever actually taken an Apple product in for service, or are you just swallowing Rossmann's opinion like a mindless drone? The truth is in between what he says and what Apple says.

What language is that, how are we trying to attack apple? By stating the fact that they tell falsehoods to their customers? There are lots of well documented cases where they told the customer one thing, when the issue was something entirely different.

By citing Rossmann's views as gospel and attributing all of Apple's actions to malice when they may be little more than flawed judgment calls, or even just matters of liability (i.e. don't promise what you can't completely guarantee). People are so eager to buy into the counterculture, insider narrative that Rossmann spins (this is the dirty secret Apple doesn't want you to know!) that they don't bother to question it, and the Anything But Apple diehards seize on that to portray Apple as a horror show while flocking to Windows vendors that are frequently worse.

That's only your projection. Right to repair would apply to everyone, not just apple. There are a few positive examples where a manufacturer provides documentation and parts mostly for prosumer devices. What is wrong with forcing them to do the same for all their products?

No, I've seen it on other forums. They single out Apple's opposition to right-to-repair mandates while pretending that their favorite Windows laptop maker isn't equally opposed.

Right-to-repair is a complex problem. I love the idea of supplying documentation and parts when possible, but I also don't think we should have governments dictating too much of a product's design, as that can sometimes mean forcing compromises. Yeah, it'd be great if you could replace the RAM or SSD on a modern MacBook Pro, but there goes some of your portability in the process. Easy-to-access phone innards? Don't be surprised if you lose water resistance. You get the idea.

Normal people don't have preferred vendors, they choose products on specs and value. Again you're projecting how you feel about apple and assume everyone feels the same about some other manufacturer.
There is no apple vs dell here. In my book, dell,asus, etc is just as bad as apple, or worse in some cases. God knows I've dealt with dell support enough to know they aren't saints either.

You know full well that's not true. "Normal" people may not be as attached to one brand like those in the Apple ecosystem are, but they'll still lean toward a few brands (or in some cases, just one) to the exclusion of others. But never mind that, you're trying to harp on semantics here; you should know what I mean. It's the people who leap on negative coverage of Apple (a large chunk of it fair, to be clear) but ignore that many of those problems are equally prevalent or worse in the products they use. That they're addressing

It's good to know that you see other brands as having their own problems, but there are so, so many people who don't. You'll see people who paint Apple as an evil megacorp but extol the virtues of Samsung gear without a trace of irony.

Foxconn does manufacturing for many vendors not juts apple, but I don't see how is that relevant. Every consumer would gain from right to repair, and the industry shills who oppose it should be ashamed, but these people who lobby for money have no shame unfortunately.

It feels like you're talking at cross-purposes here. I wasn't specifically addressing right to repair; I was addressing Rossmann's "Apple repair bad!" schtick and how anti-Apple zealots latch on to that while turning a blind eye to what they put up with for their own devices.
 

Aurelius

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Your diatribes are nothing but whataboutisms, straw men and red herrings. Please, shill less.

I like the irony of accusing me of logical flaws while conspicuously refusing to cite examples. It's like claiming that you're a debate champion and then opening your response with "yeah, well you're a doodyhead."

I'm not shilling. I just dislike it when people are so determined to challenge an establishment narrative (Apple's, in this case) that they unquestioningly believe the prevailing counternarrative, even if that has flaws of its own (as Rossmann's does). The US is in the mess it's in partly because some were so desperate to up-end the system that they didn't care what the upstart was actually saying.
 

Meeho

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I like the irony of accusing me of logical flaws while conspicuously refusing to cite examples. It's like claiming that you're a debate champion and then opening your response with "yeah, well you're a doodyhead."

I'm not shilling. I just dislike it when people are so determined to challenge an establishment narrative (Apple's, in this case) that they unquestioningly believe the prevailing counternarrative, even if that has flaws of its own (as Rossmann's does). The US is in the mess it's in partly because some were so desperate to up-end the system that they didn't care what the upstart was actually saying.
Refusing? Wasn't aware I was asked before I even posted for the first time.

Shilling was being generous, it would at least provide some useful motive.
 

Aurelius

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Refusing? Wasn't aware I was asked before I even posted for the first time.

Shilling was being generous, it would at least provide some useful motive.

Still dancing around it, I see. You want to level a claim against me? Back it up -- I can't take you seriously when you're too cowardly and lazy to explain yourself.
 

Meeho

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Still dancing around it, I see. You want to level a claim against me? Back it up -- I can't take you seriously when you're too cowardly and lazy to explain yourself.
Not gonna bother quoting line by line on a mobile, that's for sure. Disregard the fallacies if you want. Your posts have nothing to do with the issues raised in the OP video, but are ramblings about the guy's motives and other companies. Pretend I've quoted them fully here.
 

M76

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When it's in warranty and you have a backup? The same as it should be for any device you can back up, wherever you take it. Also, saying "chances are you loose [sic] your data and get a shoddily repaired unit back in weeks..." I'm sorry, but that's an unsupported claim, especially the last part about quality. Have you ever actually taken an Apple product in for service, or are you just swallowing Rossmann's opinion like a mindless drone? The truth is in between what he says and what Apple says.
There are countless well documented cases, if you even cared to look at the evidence, but you refuse to even do that, because "ross man bad".



By citing Rossmann's views as gospel and attributing all of Apple's actions to malice when they may be little more than flawed judgment calls, or even just matters of liability (i.e. don't promise what you can't completely guarantee). People are so eager to buy into the counterculture, insider narrative that Rossmann spins (this is the dirty secret Apple doesn't want you to know!) that they don't bother to question it, and the Anything But Apple diehards seize on that to portray
I'm not citing anyone's views but my own. Will you start making points, or should I give up? Because the only thing you repeat ad nauseum that rossman is bad and anyone who dislikes apple is his fan is very childish and tiresome.
Apple as a horror show while flocking to Windows vendors that are frequently worse.
Have I told you the definition of insanity?

No, I've seen it on other forums. They single out Apple's opposition to right-to-repair mandates while pretending that their favorite Windows laptop maker isn't equally opposed.
So what? I've seen a man once pissing on main square, that's about as relevant. You're not talking to me, you are trying to pedal a narrative, which proves beyond reasonable doubt that you're shilling.

Right-to-repair is a complex problem. I love the idea of supplying documentation and parts when possible, but I also don't think we should have governments dictating too much of a product's design, as that can sometimes mean forcing compromises. Yeah, it'd be great if you could replace the RAM or SSD on a modern MacBook Pro, but there goes some of your portability in the process. Easy-to-access phone innards? Don't be surprised if you lose water resistance. You get the idea.
This is the most outrageous attempt at conflating two entirely different things, you are worse than actual lobbyists.
Right to repair is not mandating any product design, just that the manufacturer provide documentation and parts. They can still have their soldered in ssd.
You're fully committed to the narrative aren't you? Because having an 1g socket for the ssd will compromise portability so bad!

You know full well that's not true. "Normal" people may not be as attached to one brand like those in the Apple ecosystem are, but they'll still lean toward a few brands (or in some cases, just one) to the exclusion of others. But never mind that, you're trying to harp on semantics here; you should know what I mean. It's the people who leap on negative coverage of Apple (a large chunk of it fair, to be clear) but ignore that many of those problems are equally prevalent or worse in the products they use. That they're addressing
Still you are not talking to me it seems, but pushing a narrative. People have preferred brands, which they use as long as they give them what they want, but only fanatics go to the lengths you are here, there are dell fanatics but that's not normal either. I have preferred brands too, but if another brand gives me better value I won't hesitate to switch, that is normal.

It's good to know that you see other brands as having their own problems, but there are so, so many people who don't. You'll see people who paint Apple as an evil megacorp but extol the virtues of Samsung gear without a trace of irony.
Who cares? This is classic whataboutism and has nothing to do with apple. Yes there are other people living in dream words like yourself, only they are living different dreams.


It feels like you're talking at cross-purposes here. I wasn't specifically addressing right to repair; I was addressing Rossmann's "Apple repair bad!" schtick and how anti-Apple zealots latch on to that while turning a blind eye to what they put up with for their own devices.
And I was addressing that too, if apple repair is good as you claim then apple has nothing to loose on right to repair, correct? Why would anyone choose 3rd party repair if apple is so good? Are they brand traitors? LOL.

I don't agree with everything Rossman says, sometimes he goes way overboard with the conspiracies, but against the number and veracity of apple shills we need anti apple advocates like him to keep the balance.
And Rossman used to praise Lenovo but he was the first to report on them doing shitty things. That's the difference between lying to yourself and everyone else (apple shills) and somone like Rossman who doesn't deny his own experience.

I can attribute wanting to replace a MB because of a disconnected display or battery cable to incompetence at apple, but there are some things I cannot. Like banning people on their forums who suggest that data recovery is possible on dead iphones.
 
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Louis Tossman has to keep his repair shop alive under the guise of supporting consumers from the big meanie Apple.
 

oliveryuan

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This is a big problem. But people are focused on Macs because those are the only computers people bother getting repaired.
 

SOAREVERSOR

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This is a big problem. But people are focused on Macs because those are the only computers people bother getting repaired.

That just isn't the case though. The difference is that many people with Windows based computers repair them on their own or call their friend who works in IT to fix it.
 
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