Loot Boxes are now Illegal in Belgium

DooKey

DooKey

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Belgium has declared that loot boxes in some games are "games of chance" and this constitutes illegal gambling. As a result publishers may be subject to fines and imprisonment as specified in the gaming legislation. Three games (Overwatch, FIFA 18, CS:GO) are currently under the gun and must remove the loot boxes or they will be in violation of the law. I'm not sure if I agree with this kind of action, but this should get more and more interesting as other countries jump onto this regulation bandwagon.

Beyond that simple definition, the Gaming Commission expressed concern over games that draw in players with an "emotional profit forecast" of randomized goods, where players "buy an advantage with real money without knowing what benefit it would be." The fact that these games don't disclose the odds of receiving specific in-game items is also worrisome, the Commission said.
 
SixFootDuo said:
Wish they were now illegal in America
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Agreed...and I agree with the legislation of Belgium defining it as gambling because, in essence, that's how I see it.

Loot boxes are a "game of chance", albeit with a 100% rate of payout, but the unknown factor involved with not knowing what you're getting in return makes it a bonafide form of gambling.

I think it would be sweet justice if the US courts ruled in the same manner, then took it a step further by forcing every game developer to refund every penny back to customers, on top of some heavy fines.
 
DejaWiz said:
Agreed...and I agree with the legislation of Belgium defining it as gambling because, in essence, that's how I see it.

Loot boxes are a "game of chance", albeit with a 100% rate of payout, but the unknown factor involved with not knowing what you're getting in return makes it a bonafide form of gambling.

I think it would be sweet justice if the US courts ruled in the same manner, then took it a step further by forcing every game developer to refund every penny back to customers, on top of some heavy fines.
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And then take it one giant step further & declare the stock market an illegal gambling concern.
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
And then take it one giant step further & declare the stock market an illegal gambling concern.
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It already is considered gambling...minimum age to invest is 21 in most states, and 18 in a few. What should be made illegal are class action lawsuits on grounds of losses and failure to meet projections (speculative guessing).

Can't sue a casino for monetary losses incurred by willingly putting money into their machines/onto their tables, so why allow it for the stock market?
 
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Here's hoping the rest of the world takes the hint and follows suit! I vote with my wallet...if a game has ANY microtransactions, PERIOD, I will not buy it, PERIOD. Unfortunately, there are still plenty of gamers who will still buy the core game, thinking that it is OK for them to buy the game, just avoid the microtransactions...and enough of THEM get sucked into buying anyway. The publishers will continue to shove crap down our throats as long as it's legally permitted, and as long as the suckers keep buying the games!
 
DejaWiz said:
It already is considered gambling...minimum age to invest is 21 in most states, and 18 in a few. What should be made illegal are class action lawsuits on grounds of losses and failure to meet projections (speculative guessing).

Can't sue a casino for monetary losses incurred by willing putting money into their machines/onto their tables, so why allow it for the stock market?
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Because the stock market is really just a giant Ponzi scheme ...
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
Because the stock market is really just a giant Ponzi scheme ...
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Not really... If there were only one or a handful of stocks it would be a ponzi scheme. Since that's not the case it is a broad market of options so it's not a ponzi scheme
 
I like loot boxes for cosmetic stuff. Makes it fun when they drop (gives me the feel of M:TG booster packs back in the day) but I don't like the idea of allowing them to be purchased for real world money, just seems wrong. "pay me and maybe Ill give you something you want, or maybe not". But then it isn't forced either, but I do feel having them buyable makes them have worse rolling odds in hopes of selling more thus ruining the experience of the system.

just my opinion.
 
The Mad Atheist said:
Does this include those capsule toys machines right outside of supermarkets? :p
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gachapon machines, you can see what you could get. game lootboxes, you could get (overwatch) 4 lame sprays over and over and never know until you already paid
 
Though I do agree, that lootboxes can trigger those compulsive gambling, instagratifaction and all the other bad effects. Keep in mind these big companies will replace it with something. It maybe DLC on everything or monthly fee's. Overwatch has a huge playerbase, keeping those servers up isn't cheap. The monitization of overwatch will have to change and could change to something we may like even less.
 
Devastadus said:
Though I do agree, that lootboxes can trigger those compulsive gambling, instagratifaction and all the other bad effects. Keep in mind these big companies will replace it with something. It maybe DLC on everything or monthly fee's. Overwatch has a huge playerbase, keeping those servers up isn't cheap. The monitization of overwatch will have to change and could change to something we may like even less.
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And so it will be. Besides all the addiction triggers these loot boxes serve to muddle price signals, same as the freemium model... If one of these techniques bites the dust i am for it (lootboxes being the most toxic of the 2 of course). I hope the become illegal accross the board. I agree with Belgium.
 
While loot boxes have been around much longer, look at what EA has done to the entire concept. Their attempt to make loot crates practically a requirement to progress through Star Wars Battlefront 2 was the last straw. Squeeze something too much and it might explode. Now because of EA, loot boxes have become such a controversial topic that numerous organizations and even countries are classifying them as gambling. Gratz EA you may have killed that golden goose.
 
jnemesh said:
Here's hoping the rest of the world takes the hint and follows suit! I vote with my wallet...if a game has ANY microtransactions, PERIOD, I will not buy it, PERIOD. Unfortunately, there are still plenty of gamers who will still buy the core game, thinking that it is OK for them to buy the game, just avoid the microtransactions...and enough of THEM get sucked into buying anyway. The publishers will continue to shove crap down our throats as long as it's legally permitted, and as long as the suckers keep buying the games!
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I don’t do any research into whether a game has micro transactions or not. I don’t care at all if it does. I buy the games I want to play and I play them and I don’t spend any money on in-game items. Doesn’t bother me at all that they offer them or if others spend money on them...I’m not going to tell other people how to play their games because it’s none of my damn business what they spend their money on.
 
bristol16 said:
I don’t do any research into whether a game has micro transactions or not. I don’t care at all if it does. I buy the games I want to play and I play them and I don’t spend any money on in-game items. Doesn’t bother me at all that they offer them or if others spend money on them...I’m not going to tell other people how to play their games because it’s none of my damn business what they spend their money on.
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Then YOU, sir, are a part of the problem!
 
katanaD said:
FTFA



the responsibility is squarely upon the purchaser.

Just like if i get drunk and do something stupid, it isnt Budweisers fault.
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But you are not allowed to drink when not of legal age, same goes for gambling (at least here in Belgium) and most games are made for kids who don't always know they are spending real money not to mention they might get addicted
 
bugleyman said:
Seems like an overreaction to me.
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No, it really is not. Lootboxes use same triggers as gambling slot machines that easily get some people addicted and developers are actually hiring psychologists to design systems how to effectively coax players to buy them with real money. Things were getting out of hand and fast.

Developers and ESRB were given plenty of warnings that if they do not get their act together and self regulate (which is the bloody job of ESRB!) governement will intervene eventually. Of course USA is still on a fence in this matter but as lootboxes and similar gambling mechanics get banned or regulated from country to country I am sure USA will follow soon enough.
 
PantherBlitz said:
An investment is only a Ponzi Scheme if they pay "dividends" using other investor's money. Paying legitimate dividends with revenue is not a scheme.
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travisty said:
Not really... If there were only one or a handful of stocks it would be a ponzi scheme. Since that's not the case it is a broad market of options so it's not a ponzi scheme
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How do you know? :sneaky:
 
katanaD said:
FTFA



the responsibility is squarely upon the purchaser.

Just like if i get drunk and do something stupid, it isnt Budweisers fault.
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No it does not. If Budweiser sells a soft drinks laced with alcohol, then they better make sure they adhere to laws governing the sale of alcoholic beverages (properly label the bottles, publish alcohol percentage, etc). Guess what happens to Budweiser if you do something stupid after drinking said soft drink when they fail to mention it contains alcohol (especially if, say, you are an alcoholic who specifically bought the soft drink to prevent aforementioned stupidity). Same thing here: game publishers selling games which include gambling is legal, but they do have the responsibility to adhere to gambling laws.
 
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jnemesh said:
Then YOU, sir, are a part of the problem!
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Fortunately it’s not a problem, it’s just an excuse for people to complain about something trivial that they don’t agree with. I don’t let other people buying in-game items stop me from enjoying the game. If you are willing to skip playing them altogether for something you believe in then more power to you...I’m not going to try and change your mind :)
 
bristol16 said:
Fortunately it’s not a problem, it’s just an excuse for people to complain about something trivial that they don’t agree with. I don’t let other people buying in-game items stop me from enjoying the game. If you are willing to skip playing them altogether for something you believe in then more power to you...I’m not going to try and change your mind :)
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The problem is it affects the gameplay systems because the developers have to have a way to incentivize people to spend money. Look at what happened to the Forza series: they slowly introduced the concept with tokens that could be used to purchase cars and avoid the grind, but cars were still priced realistically and all of them were available to purchase with earned credits. Now the game has completely optional cosmetic and boost items, and the economy was changed such that the most desirable cars are not even purchasable; you have to acquire them through prize cards, which are completely random in the most expensive loot boxes that either completely wipes out your earned credits quickly or you can buy them with real money to avoid the grind. In addition, car value is based on the data they (Turn 10) have collected over time instead of real value. Meaning they purposely made the most popular cars artificially expensive. All of this is meant to drive people to waste real money.
 
Armenius said:
The problem is it affects the gameplay systems because the developers have to have a way to incentivize people to spend money. Look at what happened to the Forza series: they slowly introduced the concept with tokens that could be used to purchase cars and avoid the grind, but cars were still priced realistically and all of them were available to purchase with earned credits. Now the game has completely optional cosmetic and boost items, and the economy was changed such that the most desirable cars are not even purchasable; you have to acquire them through prize cards, which are completely random in the most expensive loot boxes that either completely wipes out your earned credits quickly or you can buy them with real money to avoid the grind. In addition, car value is based on the data they (Turn 10) have collected over time instead of real value. Meaning they purposely made the most popular cars artificially expensive. All of this is meant to drive people to waste real money.
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^^^THIS! Who wants to spend EXTRA time grinding? They make the games LESS FUN TO PLAY, whether you buy into the bullshit or not! Look at GTA Online for a perfect example...they sell NUKES! Even if you don't buy them, you will probably get blasted by some rich griefer who has no problem at all spending money so he can ruin some other people's day! Or look at Shadow of Mordor...a SINGLE PLAYER GAME that included DLC which BROKE THE GAME! They recently patched microtransactions out of the game, and had to re-jigger the mechanics so people who BOUGHT THE GAME could actually enjoy playing it!
 
Armenius said:
The problem is it affects the gameplay systems because the developers have to have a way to incentivize people to spend money. Look at what happened to the Forza series: they slowly introduced the concept with tokens that could be used to purchase cars and avoid the grind, but cars were still priced realistically and all of them were available to purchase with earned credits. Now the game has completely optional cosmetic and boost items, and the economy was changed such that the most desirable cars are not even purchasable; you have to acquire them through prize cards, which are completely random in the most expensive loot boxes that either completely wipes out your earned credits quickly or you can buy them with real money to avoid the grind. In addition, car value is based on the data they (Turn 10) have collected over time instead of real value. Meaning they purposely made the most popular cars artificially expensive. All of this is meant to drive people to waste real money.
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So basically you can't even win without paying. You buy the game, then the game then you have to pay additional money to unlock certain features of the game. That's a racket.
Not that I'd want anything to do with forza anyway. I'm never going to use the ms store, or anything uwp.
 
loot boxes that allow play to win, dont support it, but games like Team Fortress 2 that has been having loot for years, but it is not play to win type of gear, more just for fun
 
MrGuvernment said:
loot boxes that allow play to win, dont support it, but games like Team Fortress 2 that has been having loot for years, but it is not play to win type of gear, more just for fun
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Honestly at this point i don't give a shit how it affects the games, the technique and manipulation are sickening enough for me to have them outlawed.
 
Uvaman2 said:
Honestly at this point i don't give a shit how it affects the games, the technique and manipulation are sickening enough for me to have them outlawed.
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Clearly some people enjoy them and buy them, don't like them, don't buy them.
 
MrGuvernment said:
Clearly some people enjoy them and buy them, don't like them, don't buy them.
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Yet, that not how the world works... The ' where does it stop ' argument is non sense . And yes to me it doesn't stop at your vision, this shit need to die a quick, legally mandated death. Many adults can't control themselves at the triggers this shit is taking advantage of, let alone immature young men an women.
 
Uvaman2 said:
Yet, that not how the world works... The ' where does it stop ' argument is non sense . And yes to me it doesn't stop at your vision, this shit need to die a quick, legally mandated death. Many adults can't control themselves at the triggers this shit is taking advantage of, let alone immature young men an women.
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Many people cant control their alcohol, guess we should ban that as well and ruin it for the people who are responsible enough and do enjoy it...
 
MrGuvernment said:
Many people cant control their alcohol, guess we should ban that as well and ruin it for the people who are responsible enough and do enjoy it...
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Again the where does it stop argument doesn't fly. It stops somewhere.. and that is loot boxes out of games at this moment in history.
 
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