Looking for advice on a PC-Q08 build

[Tripwyr]

More info on this below, but this system will be built side-by-side to a saltwater reef aquarium. Many design decisions will be made with that in mind. This is what I am referring to when I mention tanks/sumps/plumbing/etc unless otherwise specified.

I'll get the form out of the way first:

1. What will you be doing with this PC?

Primarily gaming. I may end up doing some basic photo editing in the future, but it is not a priority.​

2. Will you be overclocking?

Yes and yes.​

3. What's your budget?

Budget is very flexible, I'll spend what I need to turn my vision into a reality.​

4. Where do you live?

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Nearby I have a Canada Computers, Best Buy and Future Shop. I don't know of anything else, but I am sure they exist.​

5. What exact parts do you need for that budget?

CPU, RAM, VGA, PSU, Mobo, Liquid cooling parts (I don't know much here)
I plan to use a Cubitek Mini Cube which I am more than happy to modify if necessary. I don't like the back of the Q08, so I'll likely be heavily modifying and/or replacing it. If anybody feels that a different case would fit my requirements better, I am open to suggestions. However, I am very picky about the appearance of the case.
I was looking at the i5-4670k, but I'll defer to the experts on this.
For PSU, I was looking at the Silverstone SFX ST45SF-G modular power supply. I like the smaller size and modular form factor, but am unsure whether it will be enough power.​

6. If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing?

I have a 128 GB SSD that I may reuse. I think I may sell and replace it though.​

7. What specific features do you need in a motherboard?

Required
At least 3 USB in the back (minimum 1 USB 3.0)
Connections for 2 USB 3.0 in the front
2 SATA 6GB/s

Wanted
1 eSATA​

8. What resolution output do you need?

This is a gaming rig. I'd like to be able to run a minimum of 2 side by side 1080p monitors, 3 if possible on a single VGA. 3D capable gaming would be a nice novelty, but is not necessary.​

9. Does this system need to fit into a particular space and do you need an optical drive?

The space will be custom built to accommodate the system, see aquarium info below.​

10. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring?

I have a RotoZip (Dremel), power drill and impact drill, numerous cutting tools, soldering iron. No CNC, welding, plasma or bending tools. I'd be willing to purchase tools up to $100 if they would significantly improve the build, or much higher if I can get additional use in my aquarium build (see below).
I am comfortable with soldering, knowledgeable but inexperienced in hotplate reflow soldering, and am willing to learn other custom modifications.​

11. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem?

It is unlikely the system will be louder than the aquarium, but major vibrations which may travel to the tank systems must be kept to a minimum. High pitched whines and/or noise must be minimized.​

12. How mobile does this system need to be?

A carrying handle would be a neat modification, but is not a design factor. Weight is not important. Quick disconnects and the ability to quickly remove the computer are vital in the case of catastrophic tank failure.​

13. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?

Yes. I have access to all versions of windows since XP, both 32-bit and 64-bit through my school. I prefer Windows 7 64-bit.​

14. When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Immediately, in a couple weeks, 3-5 years?

4-6 months from now.​

With that out of the way, I can elaborate on the actual plan. This system will be incorporated into a custom desk which will accommodate both the PC and 3 saltwater aquariums (display, refuge and sump), two of which will be visible (display and refuge). The PC will sit on the top of the right side of the desk, while the tanks will be on the left side. Additionally, contingent on practicality, most of the liquid cooling components will be external. The sump compartment will be ventilated with 2 fans pulling air out of the compartment; if possible I would like to incorporate the radiator here such that air is pulled from the sump compartment, through the radiator to outside the stand. My concern here is with head loss.

All electronics will be kept above the aquariums, except for the display tank. The desk will include small slits to ensure that (god forbid) any overflow will drain to the floor instead of contacting electronics. All aquarium controllers, heat controllers, light controllers, etc will be inside the sump compartment and not visible. I have freely available reverse osmosis deionized water (superior purity to distilled water).

Is there anything I have not considered?

 

[Mtnduey]

I'm in the process of a similar setup to what you speak of, but I'm using the PC-Q18 instead, the Q08 had a lot of vibration issues with multiple hard drives but the Q18 has some nifty features to help out with that. It's NOT a perfect case mind you (as I'm already finding out) but it is still pretty feature packed.

I have two PC-Q18's I'm building right now.

One for a home server = http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1768603

One for a home gaming system which will be posted after I finish the server

 

[Tripwyr]

I'm in the process of a similar setup to what you speak of, but I'm using the PC-Q18 instead, the Q08 had a lot of vibration issues with multiple hard drives but the Q18 has some nifty features to help out with that. It's NOT a perfect case mind you (as I'm already finding out) but it is still pretty feature packed.

I have two PC-Q18's I'm building right now.

One for a home server = http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1768603

One for a home gaming system which will be posted after I finish the server

While sound is not a major consideration for me, there is also no reason not to mitigate it where possible. I'll look into this.

If you don't mind me asking, what hiccups have you run into with the Q18?

 

[Mtnduey]

For the Q18 they aren't major issues just little things that I found annoying.

The hard drive rack at the bottom of the case is a little flimsy and will require some sound absorbing material to make it truly silent and vibration free. Even without anything on it if you tap it, it rattles. When you install 3.5" drives in the bottom hard drive rack the drives have some play in them and will require some hot glue or something to keep them from moving around and/or vibrating a lot, w/o this they flat out rattle and move a fair bit and I've triple checked that I've used the correct rubber isolators. 2.5" drives do not have this problem, just the 3.5"

The hot-swap PCB is really cool BUT for whatever reason I do not know, they put the SATA and MOLEX power connectors right on top of each other and at this point I do not know if you need both plugged in for the hard drives to power on or not as there is no indication one way or the other and it's not documented anywhere. If both are required it's gonna be really tight to get both plugged in as just about every sata power cable out there is angled to block the molex port.

I'm waiting for a box of power cables and adapters to arrive to complete the build so I hope to have some more useful info soon

The good news is the H90 did fit but I'm not sure if it'll clear the PSU yet, waiting for the paint to dry on the SFX adapter plate to find out.

Most of these issues wouldn't be an issue for a gaming system with only a few hard drives, but on a SFF server making use of all 3.5" slots possible and leaving only one possible slot open for a 2.5" drive at the bottom of the hot swap rack. Vibration/noise is an easy way to kill a storage system before its time so I'm trying to make it fairly streamlined where possible.

 

[liangr]

I buy all my stuff from NCIX

i5-4670k - $230
Asus ROG Impact - itx when it comes out (Im guessing $230++)
Silverstone NT06-PRO - $70
8-16gb low profile memory $100ish
256gb samsung 840 norm or pro $230
silverstone 450w sfx - $95
gtx 770 - $430
lian li q08 - $100

About $1900... is what I would get if I had the money

 

[Tripwyr]

I buy all my stuff from NCIX

i5-4670k - $230
Asus ROG Impact - itx when it comes out (Im guessing $230++)
Silverstone NT06-PRO - $70
8-16gb low profile memory $100ish
256gb samsung 840 norm or pro $230
silverstone 450w sfx - $95
gtx 770 - $430
lian li q08 - $100

About $1900... is what I would get if I had the money

This is mostly what I have been looking at. I intend to watercool instead of the NT06.

I guess the questions I have are:

Will the PSU be sufficient? The GTX 770 is rated for a 600W PSU, and I plan to overclock.
Which version of the GTX 770 should I be looking at? I've always had good experience with EVGA, but what are the differences between the models? Should I avoid "SuperClocked" which in the past have been locked out of further overclocking?
Will 2gb VRAM be sufficient, or do I need 4gb for 3 monitors at 1080p each?

 

[EQWoody]

This is mostly what I have been looking at. I intend to watercool instead of the NT06.

I guess the questions I have are:

Will the PSU be sufficient? The GTX 770 is rated for a 600W PSU, and I plan to overclock.
Which version of the GTX 770 should I be looking at? I've always had good experience with EVGA, but what are the differences between the models? Should I avoid "SuperClocked" which in the past have been locked out of further overclocking?
Will 2gb VRAM be sufficient, or do I need 4gb for 3 monitors at 1080p each?

the 450w will be fine, people use titans and i7's on them all the time.

My question is why the Q08. The layout is terrible to work with for a gaming PC as I've built 3 machines in them when they were THE ITX case to use. I have the Cubitek Mini Cube that I use for my ITX gamer and it looks and feels great. A dream to build in for cable management.

 

[Tripwyr]

the 450w will be fine, people use titans and i7's on them all the time.

Ok that is good to know.

My question is why the Q08. The layout is terrible to work with for a gaming PC as I've built 3 machines in them when they were THE ITX case to use. I have the Cubitek Mini Cube that I use for my ITX gamer and it looks and feels great. A dream to build in for cable management.

The reason I chose the Q08 is simply because I have seen beautiful looking builds with them, and can picture that case sitting in my new desk. As this is my first SFF build, I do not know what red flags to look for, nor whether it will work for my build. I already know that if I use it, I will need to make a custom acrylic back plate because the stock ATX PSU opening is far too large and horribly positioned.

Looking at the Cubitek, I can similarly see myself using it in the new desk. However, could you elaborate on what makes the Q08 a nightmare and what you like about the Cubitek?

EDIT: After looking at the Cubitek, these are my observations: (note that the Q08 suffers from many of these problems too)
The Cubitek is taller than the Q08. I liked the smaller size of the Q08, especially since I will be water cooling. I don't need the extra space on the inside. This is minor, the extra space will simply allow me to make it look that much better internally.
I will still need to fabricate a custom back plate out of acrylic. It still supports a standard ATX PSU, which is smaller than the SFX I plan to put in it. Again, this is not a big issue, I don't mind doing it.
I'm not sure how I feel about the primary fan being on the bottom. While it leads to a ridiculously clean appearance, it restricts my ability to include an optical drive on the bottom, which I planned to do with the Q08.

I feel like I have a lot of thinking to do, but I appreciate everybody's thoughts.

On the positive side, it looks even cleaner than the Q08. I'm also considering putting a slim optical drive (slot) under the power buttons behind the motherboard tray. I'll do more research on that.

 

[liangr]

I love my Q08 just because it looks amazing. I personally don't have any problems with it, sure it's a bit tight when it comes to cable management but that is an itx case for you.

The Q18 is the updated version, it looks fine but it loses its "cube" shape. (I love my cube)

@ Mtnduey: You use one or the other, molex or sata power its like backwards compatibility for older psu's

 

[EQWoody]

Ok that is good to know.



The reason I chose the Q08 is simply because I have seen beautiful looking builds with them, and can picture that case sitting in my new desk. As this is my first SFF build, I do not know what red flags to look for, nor whether it will work for my build. I already know that if I use it, I will need to make a custom acrylic back plate because the stock ATX PSU opening is far too large and horribly positioned.

Looking at the Cubitek, I can similarly see myself using it in the new desk. However, could you elaborate on what makes the Q08 a nightmare and what you like about the Cubitek?

EDIT: After looking at the Cubitek, these are my observations: (note that the Q08 suffers from many of these problems too)
The Cubitek is taller than the Q08. I liked the smaller size of the Q08, especially since I will be water cooling. I don't need the extra space on the inside. This is minor, the extra space will simply allow me to make it look that much better internally.
I will still need to fabricate a custom back plate out of acrylic. It still supports a standard ATX PSU, which is smaller than the SFX I plan to put in it. Again, this is not a big issue, I don't mind doing it.
I'm not sure how I feel about the primary fan being on the bottom. While it leads to a ridiculously clean appearance, it restricts my ability to include an optical drive on the bottom, which I planned to do with the Q08.

I feel like I have a lot of thinking to do, but I appreciate everybody's thoughts.

On the positive side, it looks even cleaner than the Q08. I'm also considering putting a slim optical drive (slot) under the power buttons behind the motherboard tray. I'll do more research on that.

The reason I moved away from the Q08 was primarily the lack of support for cpu coolers which seems funny since I'm using stock till I order a new one. I enjoyed the look of the Q08 and the airflow from the front fan, but I found the LED's to be a bit obtrusive.

The fan at the bottom of the Mini Cube is great for blower type graphics cards. Pulls fresh air straight from the bottom into the card.

As far as the height difference it's barely noticeable. It feels smaller due to it being thinner and seemingly thinner as well. Maybe it's not I havent looked up the specs, but to my eyes it does. I also enjoyed getting the front panel connectors off of the front and ontop.

There is no optical drive but I use them so rarely I just have an external that I keep on a shelf in case I need it.

Here's a shot of mine and how awesome cable management is compared to the Q08

 

[Tripwyr]

I love my Q08 just because it looks amazing. I personally don't have any problems with it, sure it's a bit tight when it comes to cable management but that is an itx case for you.

While I welcome the challenge, I am moving more toward the Cubitek for this reason. It appears the Cubitek will be cleaner overall and more conducive to the addition of a window on the left side panel.

The reason I moved away from the Q08 was primarily the lack of support for cpu coolers which seems funny since I'm using stock till I order a new one. I enjoyed the look of the Q08 and the airflow from the front fan, but I found the LED's to be a bit obtrusive.

The fan at the bottom of the Mini Cube is great for blower type graphics cards. Pulls fresh air straight from the bottom into the card.

As far as the height difference it's barely noticeable. It feels smaller due to it being thinner and seemingly thinner as well. Maybe it's not I havent looked up the specs, but to my eyes it does. I also enjoyed getting the front panel connectors off of the front and ontop.

There is no optical drive but I use them so rarely I just have an external that I keep on a shelf in case I need it.

Here's a shot of mine and how awesome cable management is compared to the Q08

I'm not too concerned about CPU cooling, since I'm going to be liquid cooling. This would certainly be a consideration otherwise, but I am set on liquid. The same goes for the bottom fan graphics cooling, it is irrelevant because the VGA will be liquid cooled.

I initially liked the cube design better because both visible aquariums will be cube aquariums, but I am now leaning toward the tower design since it will sit atop the desk. If it were contained within a compartment I would lean toward the cube.

I know there is no stock optical drive, but I will likely do some custom work to add a nearly invisible slim slot optical drive. It will be similar to the Ncase optical drive, but will be vertically oriented on the front, just below the power LEDs. I may remove the lower LED in favor of a single LED design.

The cable management certainly looks good. However, I think I would replace and/or modify the motherboard tray. While it looks great, given the option I would put the cable management holes directly in line with the related connectors. I would place one next to the 24 pin connector (and the 8pin with the ASUS mobo), and move the graphics card opening down horizontally under the graphics card. Finally, I would remove all of the extra screw holes and paint the tray the same colour as the mobo (which is another beast entirely).

 

[EQWoody]

Yeah on Thursday I'm going to be drilling out the rivets and dremeling myself some more cable management. Biggest complaint about it is the usb/3.5mm jack cables are all a little too short to route behind the motherboard. Then I'm going to be painting all the plain aluminum white. I have a few other things in store for it as well.

I also think it would be cool to cut a hole for a slot dvd drive like this...

I personally dont have a need for it but if I were going to do it that's where I'd put it.

 

[liangr]

Well here's another thing to think about, even if you have such a tidy system would anyone see it with no window?

My cables are tucked away so it doesn't restrict air flow. Its pretty much the exact same how the cubitek is except I have an HD cage blocking those cables (instead of metal panel) and PSU is in front. So you can pretty much say from the PSU down from that picture is gone (~50mm is alot for itx lovers! )

A good thing to do is take a ruler and measure to get an idea how big a case actually is first, 50mm may little for you but not for others.

 

[EQWoody]

Well here's another thing to think about, even if you have such a tidy system would anyone see it with no window?

My cables are tucked away so it doesn't restrict air flow. Its pretty much the exact same how the cubitek is except I have an HD cage blocking those cables (instead of metal panel) and PSU is in front. So you can pretty much say from the PSU down from that picture is gone (~50mm is alot for itx lovers! )

A good thing to do is take a ruler and measure to get an idea how big a case actually is first, 50mm may little for you but not for others.

Actually I'm having my side panel measured and cutting a smoked acrylic window to replace the current panel. So I guess the answer is yes =D

 

[Tripwyr]

Yeah on Thursday I'm going to be drilling out the rivets and dremeling myself some more cable management. Biggest complaint about it is the usb/3.5mm jack cables are all a little too short to route behind the motherboard. Then I'm going to be painting all the plain aluminum white. I have a few other things in store for it as well.

I also think it would be cool to cut a hole for a slot dvd drive like this...

http://i.imgur.com/vgJhgDG.jpg

I personally dont have a need for it but if I were going to do it that's where I'd put it.

This is currently my plan too. I'd likely lengthen those cables, and I may paint the entire case too. My colour scheme is teal on light grey for many of the aquarium components, and I'd like to paint this case to match that.

That is almost what I imagined for the drive.

Well here's another thing to think about, even if you have such a tidy system would anyone see it with no window?

My cables are tucked away so it doesn't restrict air flow. Its pretty much the exact same how the cubitek is except I have an HD cage blocking those cables (instead of metal panel) and PSU is in front. So you can pretty much say from the PSU down from that picture is gone (~50mm is alot for itx lovers! )

A good thing to do is take a ruler and measure to get an idea how big a case actually is first, 50mm may little for you but not for others.

Like Woody said, I plan to cut 1 if not 2 windows (side and top).

 

[Skripka]

Multimonitor or 4K. You want as much GPU as you can get. Especially at the 3*1080 level. Especially if you are like most that want to crank settings. Depends on the game ofc, some like Skyrim are not at all demanding some are computer torture tests.

Watercooling. I'd base your loop on a single D5 water pump, a Koolance or XSPC or DT waterblock, a res of your choice, a full-cover waterblock for your GPU above...and a 360mm or 480mm (or equivalent) radiator, you could do it less-but if silence is the goal more radiator lets you run quieter. Then by fittings and hose and have at it. You're going to spend $300+ here if you buy new. You can save a great deal here if you buy used-things like radiators last forever as do waterblocks.

I'll second the window though-why hide a build you put effort into?

 

[Tripwyr]

Multimonitor or 4K. You want as much GPU as you can get. Especially at the 3*1080 level. Especially if you are like most that want to crank settings. Depends on the game ofc, some like Skyrim are not at all demanding some are computer torture tests.

Watercooling. I'd base your loop on a single D5 water pump, a Koolance or XSPC or DT waterblock, a res of your choice, a full-cover waterblock for your GPU above...and a 360mm or 480mm (or equivalent) radiator, you could do it less-but if silence is the goal more radiator lets you run quieter. Then by fittings and hose and have at it. You're going to spend $300+ here if you buy new. You can save a great deal here if you buy used-things like radiators last forever as do waterblocks.

I'll second the window though-why hide a build you put effort into?

Multimonitor for sure. At 3*1080 would an OC'd GTX 770 be sufficient for some of the more torturous games? Thanks for the watercooling advice, I'll probably look at a 480mm radiator since I'm running it external. I'll look for used, but I don't mind buying new, especially since most of the used gear is international to me.

Absolutely putting in a window, I agree completely. I don't want to hide anything.