Looking for a new projector - 1080p or 4k ?

[ng4ever]

I mainly watch a lot of Netflix and Blu Rays.

Would like one that is really bright so I don't have to care about a complete dark room if I don't need it.

One last question is it worth getting a projector over a new TV ?

Any other info you need please say. Thanks.

 

[Nenu]

I used a 1080p pj for over 6 years when I started looking at UHD.
I waited for what seemed like forever for a good priced (2 to £3K) pj with enough brightness and colour quality to do HDR justice.
But there still arent any that compare to the quality TVs offer and it doesnt seem it is possible at any price.
Nearly all of them are not true 4K but have pixels that overlap those surrounding. A bit a of a con really.
HDR uses either too much white (bleaching the colours) or isnt bright enough to do justice.
And there are hardly any with low enough lag, a severe disappointment for gamers.

In the end I bought a Samsung Q9FN TV late last year as a tester, moving from 110" diagonal to 55" and yes I miss the size, but this TV makes up for it and then some!
It has incredible HDR, colour quality throughout the brightness range, very low lag, true 120Hz at 1440p and HDR+ for most none HDR material (it really works). Saying nothing of the resolution which is wonderful.
I game mostly at 1440p 120Hz especially for racing games, it looks very good.
Close to 2000nits max brightness in HDR Blu Ray is awesome.
The best game for HDR, SoTTR is HDR done properly, it looks great.

I cant see myself going back to a projector after this, my next move is to get a bigger TV of this quality.
my 2c

 

[NoOther]

About your question between 1080p and 4k, I think it is really a matter of taste. If the majority of what you watch is only 1080p, what is the point of paying for 4k? If on the other hand you really want that extra quality, then go for it.

The two sites I like the most for checking out and choosing projectors is www.projectorcentral.com for reviews and www.projectorpeople.com for their service and information. I have found the sales staff at projectorpeople has typically been top notch as far as knowledge and suggestions.

Now as for brightness, be careful, because what they claim is their full brightness is not always accurate, and there are some models that claim a far lower brightness than the projector is actually capable of. Projectorcentral actually measures real world brightness in their reviews, including the brightness at various settings for the projector (like ECO mode).

For reference since I bought my Panasonic PT-AE8000u, it has been my only TV and I have used it extensively. The official lamps have usually lasted me over 5000 hours which is more than their official rated time of 4000-5000. That said, I have typically had to replace the lamps every ~2 years. The official lamps generally cost around $400, and I highly recommend going the official route. The generic ones can be a crap shoot on how long they will last you or how well they will perform.

I use my Projector for games and play some competitive sports games on it with no real issues. Motion and input lag is typically not an issue, at least with console games. The big issue is more the size of the screen and having to shift your vision for competitive games.

Nearly all of them are not true 4K but have pixels that overlap those surrounding. A bit a of a con really.

Just to be clear, there are quite a number of projectors that can do true 4k (but are quite expensive), there are also many projectors that use pixel shifting, which is what I think you are trying to describe, although it doesn't work the way you are describing. You generally can't tell the different between pixel shifting and native 4k in projectors. There isn't much reason to not get a 4k capable projector. Typically, you are almost never going to be able to find a projector that can perform the same as a TV for the same price. But there are a number of other benefits of projectors, like screen size, not having light/radiation shined directly at you, etc. For me those benefits far outweigh any negatives (including having to buy new lamps, which I just bought my fourth lamp for my Panasonic AE8000u, going on 7 years now that I have had it).

 

[Verge]

You generally can't tell the different between pixel shifting and native 4k in projectors. ).

If you do a 1 pixel wide on/off pattern you will see a difference. Even 2 pixels wide kinda goes to shit.

They are definitely not "4k." Now the difference in viewing actual material might be much less.



I got a 65 vizio p-series for very cheap, and it throws a much better picture than any projector under 20k.

 

[NoOther]

If you do a 1 pixel wide on/off pattern you will see a difference. Even 2 pixels wide kinda goes to shit.

They are definitely not "4k." Now the difference in viewing actual material might be much less.

Why would you do a 1 pixel wide on/off pattern or even a 2 with a pixel shifting projector. That literally proves nothing. It doesn't even prove anything on a normal TV. This test is largely used for displays to check for stuck pixels. Otherwise it's main purpose is color uniformity which is the same with pixel shifting or not, as that has more to do with the controller than the pixels themselves.

The truth is with a projector there isn't as much point to do true 4k when you are already projecting a large image that has some dilution no matter what. This is why pixel shifting is such a popular and well used technology in projectors along with other techniques that all produce a quality picture. There is very little reason to overspend for a true native 4k projector when you can get a great image from a projector using pixel shift.

I got a 65 vizio p-series for very cheap, and it throws a much better picture than any projector under 20k.

Yes, no one is arguing that a TV is going to give a better picture than a projector. Not sure why you are even stating that. But as he is asking about this in the Home Theater section, specifically about a projector, I don't know why you keep mentioning it. Also your assertion that you cannot get a projector for less than 20k to have the same quality picture as your 65 Vizeo doesn't seem accurate. I could find ones around 10k that could provide a quality picture comparable to the Vizio.

What I would like to know is where you are getting a quality 4k capable TV that is 100" or larger for less than 20k?

 

[GoldenTiger]

4k pixel shifting is the way to go; it is by far the sweet spot now. Projectorcentral did a huge article comparing them with native 4k ones and 1080p.

 

[ng4ever]

Thanks.

One more question would going with a 75" or 100" TV be better ?

 

[Nenu]

Thanks.

One more question would going with a 75" or 100" TV be better ?

Unfortunately the largest TVs are not as good quality as the best in smaller sizes.
In 2018 I found 75" was about the largest with top quality unless looking at the modular cinema setups which cost.
This year we should see more of those.
And its possible there will be newer ranges that are higher quality in larger size so it might be worth hanging on a while.

It depends what you want, you may not care to have the very best. Go look at some.
TVs in a well lit store will not look how you use them at home, they have specific media and TV settings to sell them under bright lights.
If there are any darkened showrooms near you, use those to check the differences.

 

[ng4ever]

So which projectors do you all recommend ? Thanks.

 

[Verge]

Yes, no one is arguing that a TV is going to give a better picture than a projector. Not sure why you are even stating that. ?

Umm, did you even read the OP dude?

"One last question is it worth getting a projector over a new TV ?"

Size only matters in dicks, I'd much rather have 65 inches of black levels than any of those putrid DLP's. And shit, I can watch it during the daytime as well!

 

[Verge]

Unfortunately the largest TVs are not as good quality as the best in smaller sizes.
In 2018 I found 75" was about the largest with top quality unless looking at the modular cinema setups which cost.
This year we should see more of those.
And its possible there will be newer ranges that are higher quality in larger size so it might be worth hanging on a while.

It depends what you want, you may not care to have the very best. Go look at some.
TVs in a well lit store will not look how you use them at home, they have specific media and TV settings to sell them under bright lights.
If there are any darkened showrooms near you, use those to check the differences.

Budget LCD's will blow away these 4x shifting dip projectors.

 

[NoOther]

Size only matters in dicks, I'd much rather have 65 inches of black levels than any of those putrid DLP's. And shit, I can watch it during the daytime as well!

So says you. There are a lot of people that disagree with that statement. There would be no market for projectors if your statement was actually true for everyone. But since many people do prefer larger screens, there is a large market for projectors, so large that they have become increasingly popular over the years and there are more options than ever out there.

Thanks.

One more question would going with a 75" or 100" TV be better ?

To be honest, if you aren't doing this to get the home theater experience with a large screen, then it is probably going to be better for you to go the TV route. You can get up to an 85" TV for a reasonable price compared to a projector setup. Over 85" and the tables turn drastically. 100" quality TVs are going to run over $40k. So if you want a screen that is 100" or larger, projectors are really the best route to go. These days many of the projectors out there will still give you a quality image up to around 140". Some can project larger than that. The sweet spot is usually around 120" for most home theater projectors.

So which projectors do you all recommend ? Thanks.

That really depends on your budget and the circumstances of the room you are putting it in (distance from mount position, amount of light, wall space for screen, etc). In reality, and in response to your question about a dark room, you want to eliminate as much direct light as possible. Relatively low ambient light isn't as much of an issue. There are a few ways you can also help out a bit in this area, like using shades which soften the light. I have mine setup in my living room which has a number of big windows. I have both shades and black out blinds. Depending on how bright it is out determines whether I close all the blinds.

For general suggestions, I would say the Epson Home Cinema line is very good. The 4010 is highly favored atm for a good all around home theater projector. It is a Native 1080p with pixel shifting. It is a fairly bright projector as well, so should be adequate for rooms with some light. Again, I highly recommend the Projector Central site as it has some good reviews of projectors that are out now. They also provide a throw calculator that helps you calculate how far from the screen to install the projector. Projector People also has a handy tool that shows you the distance and gives you a graphic to illustrate it. It will tell you the distance in length and height (most projectors should ideally be slightly above the screen you are projecting on).

One last thing I will mention is that if you really want to get down in the weeds for home theater setups, I would highly recommend perusing avsforum for some detailed input. On there you can not only find advice for what projector, but what screen, installation, AV system, speakers and speaker placement, etc. I got a lot of valuable information on AVS forum, and I even bought my home theater seats from a rep on there for a major discount.

 

[Verge]

so large that they have become increasingly popular over the years and there are more options than ever out there.

ORLY. So multiple high end manufacturers leaving the space is "more options than ever". The market is so shit in fact, Texas Instruments is still selling the same DLP technology from 2006. 13 effin years. Darkchip4 is just around the corner

Yea the projector market is smoking hot!!!

I highly recommend the Projector Central site as it has some good reviews of projectors that are out now.

PC is known to give false reviews for money. I would go to https://www.soundandvision.com/ or https://www.projectorreviews.com/

 

[NoOther]

ORLY. So multiple high end manufacturers leaving the space is "more options than ever". The market is so shit in fact, Texas Instruments is still selling the same DLP technology from 2006. 13 effin years. Darkchip4 is just around the corner

Yea the projector market is smoking hot!!!

PC is known to give false reviews for money. I would go to https://www.soundandvision.com/ or https://www.projectorreviews.com/

Care to provide sources to back up these claims? First, specifically about the false reviews for money. I have never heard this despite you saying "it is known". Also, most research I find shows only growth in the past 10 years, plus continued expected growth over the next 8 years. Not to mention the development of the pico projector market which took off.

As for other good sites, I am always up for diversifying, but that is mainly why I suggest AVS forum which is really driven by enthusiasts.

 

[Verge]

Care to provide sources to back up these claims? First, specifically about the false reviews for money. I have never heard this despite you saying "it is known". Also, most research I find shows only growth in the past 10 years, plus continued expected growth over the next 8 years. Not to mention the development of the pico projector market which took off.

As for other good sites, I am always up for diversifying, but that is mainly why I suggest AVS forum which is really driven by enthusiasts.

I was wrong, DC3 is from 2005


People in AVS projector subs were ranting about PC for a while, then they banned them. The real AVS sold the forums a few years back, about the time they went to advertising hell. Hope Hard doesn't do the same.

 

[ng4ever]

Thanks everyone for the help!

My gut tells me to go 4k but 1080p may be enough with a projector.

Hmmm.

Anyway to see the difference before buying ?

 

[NoOther]

Thanks everyone for the help!

My gut tells me to go 4k but 1080p may be enough with a projector.

Hmmm.

Anyway to see the difference before buying ?

I believe that Projector Central has a Buy Local link where you can search for stores in your area that sell projectors. That would be a good place to start to see what stores in your area may have them setup already so you can get a feel for what they look like. Although I would note that all of their setups will be specially calibrated, so the picture won't always be the same as the out of the box picture. I am not exactly sure what area you are in, so I can't tell you specifically what might be in your area. But usually Best Buy has a section in the back for Home Theaters and they may have some projectors there setup. The Big Screen Store usually has some setups with projectors. Around my area we have a specialty shop called Gramophone that has some really nice setups that you can peruse. The nice thing about a lot of these stores is they also usually have some larger TV setups so you can do some comparisons there.

Also, certain sites have policies where you can try the equipment for a period of time and return if you are not satisfied (usually around 30 days), I know that Projector People does that.

 

[ng4ever]

I believe that Projector Central has a Buy Local link where you can search for stores in your area that sell projectors. That would be a good place to start to see what stores in your area may have them setup already so you can get a feel for what they look like. Although I would note that all of their setups will be specially calibrated, so the picture won't always be the same as the out of the box picture. I am not exactly sure what area you are in, so I can't tell you specifically what might be in your area. But usually Best Buy has a section in the back for Home Theaters and they may have some projectors there setup. The Big Screen Store usually has some setups with projectors. Around my area we have a specialty shop called Gramophone that has some really nice setups that you can peruse. The nice thing about a lot of these stores is they also usually have some larger TV setups so you can do some comparisons there.

Also, certain sites have policies where you can try the equipment for a period of time and return if you are not satisfied (usually around 30 days), I know that Projector People does that.

Isn't that frowned on to do ?

Sense people could abuse it ?

 

[NoOther]

Isn't that frowned on to do ?

Sense people could abuse it ?

What do you mean frowned on to do? To offer it, or take advantage of it? I mean people can abuse a lot of things. The amount of work it usually takes to setup a projector, calibrate and add in the shipping and return, I don't see how it would be worth it for someone to abuse it. Plus they know who is getting the projector, if the same person keeps ordering and returning, they will just cut them off. If you talk to their sales rep and explain your situation, that you would like to try different models (and even more specifically different resolutions), they may work with you and perhaps even offer to send out a floor model for you to test before buying. They (Projector People) have made that offer to me before, but not sure if they will make that offer to everyone.

 

[ng4ever]

What do you mean frowned on to do? To offer it, or take advantage of it? I mean people can abuse a lot of things. The amount of work it usually takes to setup a projector, calibrate and add in the shipping and return, I don't see how it would be worth it for someone to abuse it. Plus they know who is getting the projector, if the same person keeps ordering and returning, they will just cut them off. If you talk to their sales rep and explain your situation, that you would like to try different models, they may work with you and perhaps even offer to send out a floor model for you to test before buying. They (Projector People) have made that offer to me before, but not sure if they will make that offer to everyone.

Oh wow.. Thanks!

They seem a little expensive though compared to other retailers.

 

[NoOther]

Oh wow.. Thanks!

They seem a little expensive though compared to other retailers.

They have a price match option too. I really like their support, which is why I usually use them, but you should use whoever you feel most comfortable with service/price wise. I am just not familiar with the return options of other retailers. I am pretty sure some others will have similar options though, especially if they are a fairly reputable shop. I know some people that have used visual apex and they have a similar policy. I believe Gramophone has a slightly similar policy as well. I would think its a fairly common thing among reputable retailers.