Looking for a LED monitor with true 8-bit and proper IPS.

[neville12]

Hello,

Here are the requirements:

LED

IPS proper

True 8-bit

Between 22" and 25"

Can't be more than 1000 USD.

The only one that fits all the criterias that I need seem to be the Eizo Foris, at least that's the only one I found when I narrowed it down.

 

[slh28]

There's a lot of monitors which fit the criteria if you exclude LED from the requirements...

 

[neville12]

There's a lot of monitors which fit the criteria if you exclude LED from the requirements...

Can you list some, please?

 

[Whoisthisreally]

LED

Doesn't matter

IPS proper

No such thing

True 8-bit

Doesn't matter. What if your monitor is inaccurate? is inaccurate 8-bit worth more than accurate 6-bit + FRC? What do you think happens when you calibrate using the graphic card's LUT?

Between 22" and 25"

P241W

 

[neville12]

No such thing

I think "IPS proper" means something like S-IPS and H-IPS.

The kind you can find who are "proper IPS" would be for example the LG W2420R and HP ZR30w who both uses S-IPS.

Unlike for example the Dell U2312HM who uses e-IPS ("e" stands for "economic" and unlike S-IPS or H-IPS is not IPS proper).

 

[neville12]

nvmind.

 

[Parja]

Unlike for example the Dell U2312HM who uses e-IPS ("e" stands for "economic" and unlike S-IPS or H-IPS is not IPS proper).

The E stands for Enhanced. And it's newer technology than both S-IPS and H-IPS.

edit: Whoops, my bad. I didn't realize there was an E-IPS and an e-IPS. Learn somethin' new every day!

 

[slh28]

I see the UltraSharp U2711 uses proper IPS (H-IPS), with LED technology. But is it a true 8-bit or not?

Yes. You can generally tell the difference between true 8-bit and 6-bit + FRC by the price

What are you using the monitor for anyway? The recommendations will vary depending on if you're using it for gaming or for professional photo work, for example.

 

[neville12]

Yes. You can generally tell the difference between true 8-bit and 6-bit + FRC by the price

The HP zr24w is 8-bit and doesn't cost too much. But yeah, it's true that true 8-bit is on the more expensive side... Let's not even talk about the prices for the true 10-bits!

What are you using the monitor for anyway? The recommendations will vary depending on if you're using it for gaming or for professional photo work, for example.

I use it for gaming, viewing movies, reading books, browsing the internet.

 

[slh28]

I use it for gaming, viewing movies, reading books, browsing the internet.

In that case I'm not sure you need an IPS monitor, $1000 is a huge amount to spend on technology which is geared towards accurate colour reproduction, i.e. for photographers and graphic design.

You should be aware of the main drawback of IPS which is the slow response time and input lag. For example the very expensive Dell U3011 has 7ms GTG a less than ideal 25ms input lag. And if you're not a professional photographer I very much doubt you will notice the difference between 6-bit+FRC and 8-bit panels.

You're probably better off getting a 120Hz TN panel, they have improved quite a lot over the last few years (viewing angles are still terrible, but not a problem if you just sit in the same position). You'll get smoother gameplay, less ghosting, a lower power bill (most 120Hz panels are LED) and you can put the money you saved towards other components.

 

[neville12]

You should be aware of the main drawback of IPS which is the slow response time and input lag.

Yeah I did notice you couldn't have it both ways, even the super expensive dreamcolor has an input lag of 26ms.

You're probably better off getting a 120Hz TN panel, they have improved quite a lot over the last few years (viewing angles are still terrible, but not a problem if you just sit in the same position). You'll get smoother gameplay, less ghosting, a lower power bill (most 120Hz panels are LED) and you can put the money you saved towards other components.

I looked on forums and noticed there was a debate, wether which kind of monitor was better for entertainment purpose, either a 120hz or an IPS 8-bit.

I looked around for 120hz monitors, there aren't too much choices so far, but the Samsung S27A650D seems good I think?

 

[Medion]

I looked around for 120hz monitors, there aren't too much choices so far, but the Samsung S27A650D seems good I think?

BenQ XL2420T

[H] discussion on it

 

[Tup3x]

I'd say Fujitsu P23T-6 but since you obviously aren't in Europe, I say nothing.

 

[neville12]

I'd say Fujitsu P23T-6 but since you obviously aren't in Europe, I say nothing.

I am in Europe, but Fujitsu isn't very reputed outside of Japan I think? The only thing from Fujitsu that I ever bought was a FM Towns Marty 2 lol

 

[Parja]

You should be aware of the main drawback of IPS which is the slow response time and input lag.

A good IPS is only going to be a few ms shy of most TN screens. If you can see the difference in a few ms, you're not human. There are some IPS screens out there that are lacking in that department and have some ghosting issues, so always best to check out some quality reviews first.

Also, input lag has nothing to do with IPS. It's all about the electronics of the monitor. There are plenty of IPS monitors out there without scalers or buffers that do quite well in the input lag department (<10ms).

But I do agree that as far as a monitor in the 22-25" range and without any real need for accurate color reproduction, the OP would probably be better off putting the money into a 120Hz TN than an IPS monitor.

 

[neville12]

One thing I notice about 120hz monitors, is that they are all 3D? Should I buy a 3D monitor if I am never going to use 3D?

 

[neville12]

It's all about the electronics of the monitor. There are plenty of IPS monitors out there without scalers or buffers that do quite well in the input lag department (<10ms).

Could you suggest any IPS monitors with true 8-bits that does <10ms?

 

[ToastyX]

I think "IPS proper" means something like S-IPS and H-IPS.

The kind you can find who are "proper IPS" would be for example the LG W2420R and HP ZR30w who both uses S-IPS.

Unlike for example the Dell U2312HM who uses e-IPS ("e" stands for "economic" and unlike S-IPS or H-IPS is not IPS proper).

All of those monitors have H-IPS panels. S-IPS is often used as a blanket term for all IPS panels even though most IPS panels are H-IPS now, and e-IPS is just H-IPS with energy efficient standard gamut backlighting and 6-bit+FRC on recent models, so what's not "proper" about it?

You don't seem to understand what you want. You're focusing on things that don't really matter while completely ignoring things that do matter.

The biggest difference between different IPS panels is the gamut. Do you need something close to standard gamut, or do you need a wider gamut? Wider gamut monitors display more saturated colors, but most images, videos, and programs are not designed for wider gamut monitors, which means everything will be oversaturated except in color managed programs with a proper color profile. Some people like the oversaturation, but I don't. If you need something exact for color matching, you'll need a high-end NEC or EIZO monitor and a color calibration device, which is out of your price range.

The LG W2420R also has the A-TW polarizer, which helps improve contrast by stopping black from glowing at slight angles. Most IPS monitors don't have this.

Beyond those two factors, IPS monitors with similar gamuts will look similar when calibrated, regardless if it's LED vs. CCFL or 8-bit vs. 6-bit+FRC. 6-bit+FRC just means dithering is used to produce 8-bit color, but most people can't even see it.

There are other factors to consider as well, such as lag and glossy vs. matte.

You mentioned several monitors so far:

LG W2420R - Widest gamut, RGB LED, 8-bit+FRC, A-TW polarizer, 1 frame lag
Dell U2711 - Wide gamut, CCFL, 8-bit+FRC, 1 frame lag
HP ZR30w - Wide gamut, CCFL, 8-bit, no lag
HP ZR24w - Standard gamut, CCFL, 8-bit, no lag, low contrast due to crappy firmware
Dell U2312HM - Standard gamut, LED, 6-bit+FRC, no lag

All of those monitors have different characteristics. The wider gamut monitors will display colors differently from the standard gamut monitors. The LG will have better viewing angles due to the A-TW polarizer. The HP ZR24w has low contrast due to crappy color controls in the firmware.

I use it for gaming, viewing movies, reading books, browsing the internet.

If that's all you're using it for, consider the Korean monitors mentioned here:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1675393
http://www.overclock.net/t/1215866/...g-90hz-achieva-shimian-qh270-and-catleap-q270

They are glossy, standard gamut, LED, 8-bit, no lag.

 

[neville12]

he LG W2420R also has the A-TW polarizer, which helps improve contrast by stopping black from glowing at slight angles. Most IPS monitors don't have this.

Yeah, but this one is too expensive, the cheapest I could find it was at 1,300&#8364;.

HP ZR24w - Standard gamut, CCFL, 8-bit, no lag, low contrast due to crappy firmware

All of those monitors have different characteristics. The wider gamut monitors will display colors differently from the standard gamut monitors. The LG will have better viewing angles due to the A-TW polarizer. The HP ZR24w has low contrast due to crappy color controls in the firmware.

So you wouldn't advise me to get the HP ZR24w? I can get it for 400&#8364;.

I am also considering the:

Eizo FS2332 (as I mentioned it in the OP) which I can get for 300&#8364; from Fnatic, it is well rated on amazon japan: http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0058FVNWQ/

Or one of the Fujitsu's who are sold in Europe that can be seen here: http://shop.fujitsu.com/fr/moniteurs/superior

Though from what I read on this forum, people don't really know if the Fujitsu's are true 8-bit or not.

What do you think?

They are glossy, standard gamut, LED, 8-bit, no lag.

I don't want glossy, I have a glossy CCFL 46" Sony Bravia Fullhdtv and it causes eyestrain, I am using an LG CCFL flatron monitor with anti-glare coating and it doesn't causes eystrain.

 

[neville12]

By the way ToastyX, out of curiosity which do you think is the best monitor:

The LG Flatron W2420R

or the HP DreamColor LP2480zx

?

As I mentioned the price for the W2420R is 1300&#8364; and the price for the LP2480x is 2000&#8364;.

 

[Tup3x]

I have Fujitsu P23T-6P and P24W-6 around here too. According to spec sheet both are 8-bit panels. To me there is no dithering or noisy moving (or non-moving) patterns. I have seen ZR24w and in my opinion P24W-6 is better monitor.

 

[Parja]

Could you suggest any IPS monitors with true 8-bits that does <10ms?

Well, I'm not too familiar with the monitors in the 22-25" range, so the only one I know of off-hand is the HP ZR24W at 10ms.

 

[neville12]

I have Fujitsu P23T-6P and P24W-6 around here too. According to spec sheet both are 8-bit panels. To me there is no dithering or noisy moving (or non-moving) patterns. I have seen ZR24w and in my opinion P24W-6 is better monitor.

I tried to see the reviews of Fujitsu's monitor on amazon.co.jp, but didn't find any of their monitors on there, I did however see a video on youtube and the screen of the Fujitsu's looked glossy, no?

I was looking around and found some good matches for what I wanted, namely these two models:

NEC EA231WMI-BK (H-IPS, true 8-bit, 16:9, 1920x1080, CCFL)

ViewSonic VP2365 (E-IPS, true 8-bit, 16:9, 1920x1080, LED)

I might also consider one of the Fujitsu's if they are not do not have too much glaring, especially since they are readily available on Fujitsu's website and not expensive.

So let me know what you think

 

[NCX]

All 20-24" IPS are matte except for the Dell st2220t. PRAD.de has reviews of the fujitsu's

Stay away from the viewsonic, LG and NEC 23" models if you want good response times for games.

Go with the Eizo Foris FS2332
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2011/review-eizo-fs2332.html

All matte IPS panels are excessively grainy for no reason due to LG's matte coating. The Eizo uses a PLS panel from Samsung which uses semi-glossy coating=matte with minimal grain.

 

[neville12]

All 20-24" IPS are matte except for the Dell st2220t. PRAD.de has reviews of the fujitsu's

Stay away from the viewsonic, LG and NEC 23" models if you want good response times for games.

Why? Do the bigger size models of viewsonic, LG and NEC models have better response time? Aside from response times for games, do they have any other particular downsides that I should know?

To be honest I have an L1730S from LG with a 12ms gray-to-gray and 28ms black-to-white and it has never really bothered me when playing games.

 

[NCX]

Why? Because that is the way they are, ask Viewsonic, LG and NEC why they don't think it is important to properly overdrive their IPS panels.

Like ToastyX said you don't seem to know what you want. Asking 50 million questions about every single display will get you nowhere and only deter people from trying to help you. It is your money yet you seem to be expecting others to do the research and spend it for you.

Why ask about expensive displays then fall back on the bottom barrel Viewsonic and NEC 23"?

the best 23" is the Eizo Foris FS2332, hands down. The Fujitsu P24W-6 is the best 24" IPS. PRAD.de has reviews of both of these displays.

There is no reason to consider the 23" NEC/Viewsonic/LG IPS panels over Dell/ Fujitsu/Asus (PA238Q)/Eizo/ unless you want to save money.

The NEC P24xx series is a waste of money unless you plan on buying a colorimeter and decent profiling software

 

[neville12]

Why ask about expensive displays then fall back on the bottom barrel Viewsonic and NEC 23"?

I want to weight the difference in features between the different monitors that are offered, since there are so many of them.

the best 23" is the Eizo Foris FS2332, hands down. The Fujitsu P24W-6 is the best 24" IPS. PRAD.de has reviews of both of these displays.

There is no reason to consider the 23" NEC/Viewsonic/LG IPS panels over Dell/ Fujitsu/Asus (PA238Q)/Eizo/ unless you want to save money.

No it's not about saving money, but the more I research the more I come out with information about each display having it's own downsides and problems, I am trying to find the monitor that fits fulfill most of the criterias I am interested in whilst having the less downsides. For example the Dell have agressive anti-glare coatings, the ASUS have agressive lightning, the NECs are too slow, the Eizos don't have enough contrast, the HPs have blacklighting bleeding, the BenQs have ghosting and motion blur etc.

And plus for example the EA231WMI would cost me 350&#8364;, whilst the FS2332 would cost me 300&#8364;, so it has nothing to do with money.

The NEC P24xx series is a waste of money unless you plan on buying a colorimeter and decent profiling software

I see.

 

[NCX]

All matte IPS panels use the same coating. If it were me I would buy the Eizo Foriss FS2332 w/o thinking twice. The Foris has good contrast and Samsung PLS panels are not known to have large contrast variances and tinting, unlike IPS. You can buy 3x IPS panels and 2 will be capable of 1000:1 while ones max contrast might be 30% lower with a lot of these newer models. The 23" IPS and Dell U2412hm are known to vary, there are not enough reviews or user feedback for the HP ZR2440W or Fujitsu models to get an idea on the variances.

The EA232 is half the price of the Foris here . Any display can come with back-light bleeding. Companies like Eizo, Dell, NEC and HP all have great customer service.

 

[Tup3x]

The AG coating on my P23T-6P does not bother me at all. My laptop looks like sand paper compared to this and my old TN had dirtier look. In my opinion this has better picture quality, contrast and punchier colours and whiter whites than the nonled 24" version, does 75hz too with custom timings. 23" version has dodgy overdrive (works only in video mode unlike in 24" version; though if you flick eco mode on and off while in video mode, overdrive will stay enabled and the monitor will be in normal mode).

I do not have that many refrence points but I have seen ZR24w which in my opinion had rather noticeable crystal like effect, which was a bit annoying. Looked dirtier too compared to P23T-6P too. But since I can not do side by side comparison, there are room for error. But in any case the AG on this Fujitsu is sweet spot in my opinion. If this is the excessive AG everyone talks about, then, I don't know... I'm just not sensitive to it. Heck, the screen looks dirty only when it actually is dirty in my opinion.

It would be nice if someone could do side by side testing for every IPS screen, though.

 

[neville12]

Dell U2410 (H-IPS, true 8-bit, 16:10, 1920x1200, CCFL) Price: 430&#8364;

NEC EA231WMI (H-IPS, true 8-bit, 16:9, 1920x1080, CCFL) Price: 350&#8364;

Eizo FS2332 (S-PLS, true 8-bit, 16:9, 1920x1080, LED) 300&#8364;

ViewSonic VP2365wb/led (E-IPS, true 8-bit, 16:9, 1920x1080, LED or CCFL) 260&#8364;

The most expensive one seems to be the Dell.

 

[NCX]

@ Tup3x

I'm sure you are right Tup3x given your experience, apparently the 23" AOC has less coating but I can guarantee you the coating is still worse than those found on C-PVA and PLS displays, but probably not worth bitching about. Acer often uses LG TN panels which is why they have the grainy coating like your old 22." The FS2332 is still a better display than the 23" Fujitsu though.

The Eizo costs 600$ here while the rest of the 23" IPS are sub 280$.

I stole this from overclock.ru reviews.

The S24A350T/FP241W uses semi-glossy coating just like the FS2332. The rest are IPS except for the NB and HS24Q which is an Acer TN panel. IDK if these were all taken at the same brightness.

@Neville
The FS2332 is true 8 bit. The EA241W is a TN panel. Go with the Fujitsu's or Eizo. There is 0 reason to consider the 23" Viewsonic/NEC or U2410 over the 23-24" fujitsu's and Eizo Foris unless you want a wide gamut display (U2410), but there are better wide gamut displays.

 

[neville12]

The Eizo costs 600$ here while the rest of the 23" are sub 280$.

The Eizo FS2332 actually costs like 500€ here, but Fnatic has a special partnership with Eizo and they sell their Foris monitors for a lowered price (300€ for the FS2332).

 

[neville12]

@Neville
The FS2332 is true 8 bit. The EA241W is a TN panel. Go with the Fujitsu's or Eizo. There is 0 reason to consider the 23" Viewsonic/NEC or U2410 over the 23-24" fujitsu's and Eizo Foris unless you want a wide gamut display (U2410), but there are better wide gamut displays.

 

[neville12]

@Neville
The FS2332 is true 8 bit. The EA241W is a TN panel. Go with the Fujitsu's or Eizo. There is 0 reason to consider the 23" Viewsonic/NEC or U2410 over the 23-24" fujitsu's and Eizo Foris unless you want a wide gamut display (U2410), but there are better wide gamut displays.

Yeah I don't think I am going to go for the Dell, I read information about how it is too bright even at 0% brightness, problem with it's edge turning pinkish in color, display making "whine-like" noises and such.

About the Foris I haven't seen much reviews and infos, but the small amount of reviews that I read seem to say that it is a nice display. But from what I read, it's stuck at 60hz (can't do 75hz even), it has an input lag and isn't doing so great in the contrast department.

And so on and so on, pretty much every display has it's strong points and downsides.

 

[neville12]

The AG coating on my P23T-6P does not bother me at all. My laptop looks like sand paper compared to this and my old TN had dirtier look. In my opinion this has better picture quality, contrast and punchier colours and whiter whites than the nonled 24" version, does 75hz too with custom timings. 23" version has dodgy overdrive (works only in video mode unlike in 24" version; though if you flick eco mode on and off while in video mode, overdrive will stay enabled and the monitor will be in normal mode).

So you are saying this one:

http://shop.fujitsu.com/fr/moniteurs/superior/ecran-p24w-6-ips

is not as good as this one:

http://shop.fujitsu.com/fr/moniteurs/superior/ecran-p23t-6-ips

?

I am wondering because the 24" is like 150€ more than the 23".

Also what is the difference between P23T-6 and P23T-6P?

 

[Outbreaker]

You should also take a loot at the new Monitors like the LG IPS235V i'ts an S-IPS.

 

[Dan UCF]

NEC EA231WMI (H-IPS, true 8-bit, 16:9, 1920x1080, CCFL) Price: 350€

If the EA231WMi is a true 8-bit what is inside the EA232WMi?

I have two EA231WMi and have been trying to get a 3rd for AGES but have not been able to find them anywhere for a reasonable price. I'd even buy one used in a heart beat. What might be a good 3rd middle monitor to team up with my current two? I was thinking of putting the newer 232 in the middle with them and calling it a day unless there is something else better.

Or I could sell my two screens and get something else...

 

[neville12]

If the EA231WMi is a true 8-bit what is inside the EA232WMi?

NEC EA231WMI (H-IPS, true 8-bit, 16:9, 1920x1080, CCFL)

NEC EA232WMi (e-IPS, 6-bit + A-FRC, 16:9, 1920x1080, W-LED)

 

[Tup3x]

So you are saying this one:

http://shop.fujitsu.com/fr/moniteurs/superior/ecran-p24w-6-ips

is not as good as this one:

http://shop.fujitsu.com/fr/moniteurs/superior/ecran-p23t-6-ips

?

I am wondering because the 24" is like 150&#8364; more than the 23".

Also what is the difference between P23T-6 and P23T-6P?

I'm saying that I prefer P23T-6 to P24W-6. P24W-6 isn't LED (and that makes it cost more too) but the bigger size and resolution can be beneficial to some. I wanted 16:9 for myself so I didn't get another P24W-6. But I have to say that P24W-6 is probably the best CCFL backlit display I've seen but at least in my case P23T-6 had better blacks and contrast. This is just my own opinion and mainly because I did want 16:9 (no black bars in some games and movies) and my main thing is gaming (75Hz is handy). P24W-6 is pretty damn good choice for everything especially if you prefer that aspect ratio (and overdrive is always enabled in every mode).

By the way, one thing about the PWM flickering. My Galaxy S doesn't pick any flickering/lines when the brightness is at 0. Neither it does at 35 which I use (~120 cd/m²). For comparison, Galaxy S picks shitloads of flickering/lines on HP Compaq LA2306x (which looks much dirtier by the way) near 0 an clear lines start to appear below 100.

 

[CrabJuice]

By the way, one thing about the PWM flickering. My Galaxy S doesn't pick any flickering/lines when the brightness is at 0. Neither it does at 35 which I use (~120 cd/m²). For comparison, Galaxy S picks shitloads of flickering/lines on HP Compaq LA2306x (which looks much dirtier by the way) near 0 an clear lines start to appear below 100.

Interesting. Which of the two models are you referring to? Would be very cool if you dont mind taking the time to do a slightly more elaborate test as described here:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/pulse_width_modulation.htm#testing