List Your Sexual Orientation on Xbox Live

aireyc

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
185
did any of you geniuses ever stop to think that by adding something like that, then gay players could actually try to play with people who wouldn't act like complete fucking asshats?

while yes, i don't need to know someone's sexuality, and for me being a hetero male - i don't know what's it's like to be constantly made fun of every time i play...

but for the people who would like to play with others that they may feel safer playing with, why the fuck would you belittle that?

bah, it's not worth my time to try and explain this to most of you... but i noticed not one post before i started writing this had anything positive to say about it.

What are you talking about? Are you somehow linking use of the term "gay" to an attack on homosexuality? Your logic can be shown incorrect via proof by contradiction (yes, this is [H]). Let's assume we know the orientation of every user. Thus, the use of the term gay as an insult towards homosexuals could be considered an act of bullying or of malicious intent directed towards the gay community. However, since the orientation is not known, such assumptions cannot be made.

So under your logic, specifying an orientation will result in less people intentionally making fun of homos? If it's simply an issue of playing only with people of the same orientation, I think it'd be better if they setup their own servers or clans to exclude themselves from the rest of the population as opposed to exposing their orientation to those who may choose to make fun of them.
 

k1DBLITZ

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
145
I fail to see why we need to know/care/advertise what activities sexually stimulate you or I. Put whatever implements in whatever orifice you would like in the privacy of your own home, knock yourself out.

Peoples is People. I am not interested in deciding who I game with based on what may or may not get them off.

I have a really simple benchmark; The Pint Test. If I wouldn't sit down and drink a pint with you at the pub then I probably don't have a lot of use for you or desire to be around you. At no point does The Pint Test care about sexual proclivity or orientation. Just don't beat me over the head with what stimulates you sexually (figuratively and certainly literally) and it should be all good in the 'hood.

Don't ask, Don't tell does not smack as discriminatory to me; it comes off more as common sense from where I sit. I highly doubt most people want or need to hear what I do with my Wife/GF/SO. All I ask is for the same courtesy.

Yes, THIS ^^^^^^ exactly.
 

Dr.LaRd

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Messages
302
What are you talking about? Are you somehow linking use of the term "gay" to an attack on homosexuality? Your logic can be shown incorrect via proof by contradiction (yes, this is [H]). Let's assume we know the orientation of every user. Thus, the use of the term gay as an insult towards homosexuals could be considered an act of bullying or of malicious intent directed towards the gay community. However, since the orientation is not known, such assumptions cannot be made.

So under your logic, specifying an orientation will result in less people intentionally making fun of homos? If it's simply an issue of playing only with people of the same orientation, I think it'd be better if they setup their own servers or clans to exclude themselves from the rest of the population as opposed to exposing their orientation to those who may choose to make fun of them.

wow, you are a fucking asshole

it's another way they can try to keep from playing with people like you

and does it REALLY hurt you to know if someone is gay? does it make you feel all uncomfortable? well, try being gay, in a game full of hetero pricks like yourself calling each other homo, and fag...and just TRY to step out of your own fucking skin and think what that could be like for someone else
 

Phoenix333

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
3,510
So no options for celibate or interspecies? Rather odd that being either a priest or into bestiality are both excluded. :rolleyes:
 

Ibanezfoo

Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Messages
776
wow, you are a fucking asshole

it's another way they can try to keep from playing with people like you

and does it REALLY hurt you to know if someone is gay? does it make you feel all uncomfortable? well, try being gay, in a game full of hetero pricks like yourself calling each other homo, and fag...and just TRY to step out of your own fucking skin and think what that could be like for someone else

Why does it matter if someone is gay in a VIDEO GAME? Fragging chumps is the same whether they are gay or not. Is it another tool for them to whine? "You only shot me because I'm gay!" Other than that, it is irrelevant and serves no purpose. I'm of the opinion of those above, I don't give two shits about your sexual preference and I don't want to hear about it. Do you hear us running around throwing our straightness in everyone's faces and demanding that they accept it? ;)

I work with several gay guys and they don't talk about it at all unless you ask. You could have a beer with them and everything will be cool. Just "normal" guys who happen to find other guys attractive I guess. Does this matter in the grand scheme of the world or something as mundane as a game of deathmatch? NO!

This is really even less a non-issue.
 

Dr.LaRd

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Messages
302
Why does it matter if someone is gay in a VIDEO GAME? Fragging chumps is the same whether they are gay or not. Is it another tool for them to whine? "You only shot me because I'm gay!" Other than that, it is irrelevant and serves no purpose. I'm of the opinion of those above, I don't give two shits about your sexual preference and I don't want to hear about it. Do you hear us running around throwing our straightness in everyone's faces and demanding that they accept it? ;)

I work with several gay guys and they don't talk about it at all unless you ask. You could have a beer with them and everything will be cool. Just "normal" guys who happen to find other guys attractive I guess. Does this matter in the grand scheme of the world or something as mundane as a game of deathmatch? NO!

This is really even less a non-issue.

thank you for a reply that is mature

i think what everyone is missing out above, is that this change isn't about THEM or ME, or YOU.....it's about a group of people who can use another filtering technique to try to limit the harassment they get/have to listen to while playing on xbox live...

hey, i don't need to know what you do in your bedroom - it's not my business...but in this case where if you specify (if you so choose) then to me it seems like it would be easier for similar people to play together - being gay just happens to be that thing.

and i agree, it is less than a non-issue, but people still seem to think that it IS a issue because someone chooses to put their sexual orientation in a box? so what? that's the flip side to this whole thing about "who cares what you do in the bedroom"....

why does it matter if it's there then?
 

Balzac

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
1,539
I will enjoy secretly changing my friends status on their live accounts without them knowing. Can't wait!
 

spinelli

Gawd
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Messages
527
I shared a house with a gay guy for a year and I never heard the words fag and gay tossed about more in my life then from him and his friends, to each other. Especially when playing any kind of game. I promise you that anyone using this kind of a header to filter who they play with will not be walking into some kind of online nirvana where everyone poops rainbows and has nothing but uplifting things to say. Filter people by their behavior, not by sexual orientation. The 'asshole' category is not populated solely by hetero's.
 

Dekoth

Gawd
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
891
did any of you geniuses ever stop to think that by adding something like that, then gay players could actually try to play with people who wouldn't act like complete fucking asshats?

while yes, i don't need to know someone's sexuality, and for me being a hetero male - i don't know what's it's like to be constantly made fun of every time i play...

but for the people who would like to play with others that they may feel safer playing with, why the fuck would you belittle that?

bah, it's not worth my time to try and explain this to most of you... but i noticed not one post before i started writing this had anything positive to say about it.

I thought about it, and realized it still didn't make any sense.

wow, you are a fucking asshole

it's another way they can try to keep from playing with people like you

and does it REALLY hurt you to know if someone is gay? does it make you feel all uncomfortable? well, try being gay, in a game full of hetero pricks like yourself calling each other homo, and fag...and just TRY to step out of your own fucking skin and think what that could be like for someone else

More of my friends are gay then aren't, and I don't know a one of them that "Go out of their way" to avoid playing with hetero's out of some fear of being harassed. Of course, all of my gay friends are fully comfortable with their sexuality and don't give a damn what some snot nosed teenager thinks anyhow.

Yet again, this is an implementation that is stupid at best and at worst will cause far more problems then prevent.
 

GushpinBob

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
2,721
First they announce the end of XBL for Xbox originals and now this PC bullcrap?! Why the hell am I paying these guys 50 bucks a year?!
 

Dr.LaRd

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Messages
302
More of my friends are gay then aren't, and I don't know a one of them that "Go out of their way" to avoid playing with hetero's out of some fear of being harassed. Of course, all of my gay friends are fully comfortable with their sexuality and don't give a damn what some snot nosed teenager thinks anyhow.

i'm honestly not trying to make it seem like that's ALL it would be used for as far as going out of their way to not play with hetero's :D

and that's great that your friends feel are that comfortable. i have family that are gay, and they are older...but alas their support system isn't...great....and so while they don't HIDE anything, they certainly don't act as comfortable as a hetero couple would..

i just want to make this clear - i'm not trying to go out of my way here to "defend" anyone. i'm just trying to make a point that, while this does seem pretty silly (my first reaction is of course "what the hell?? i don't care what you do in your bedroom....") it can actually be used for more good than any perceived bad...

i like the idea, that way i can stick to my kind - transgendered :D:D:D
 

Shalafi

Fully [H]
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
22,931
i'm honestly not trying to make it seem like that's ALL it would be used for as far as going out of their way to not play with hetero's :D

and that's great that your friends feel are that comfortable. i have family that are gay, and they are older...but alas their support system isn't...great....and so while they don't HIDE anything, they certainly don't act as comfortable as a hetero couple would..

i just want to make this clear - i'm not trying to go out of my way here to "defend" anyone. i'm just trying to make a point that, while this does seem pretty silly (my first reaction is of course "what the hell?? i don't care what you do in your bedroom....") it can actually be used for more good than any perceived bad...

i like the idea, that way i can stick to my kind - transgendered :D:D:D

you mean, people can find love while playing Halo?
 

peepingdan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
160
Does it affect any one of you? Why is there such a negative backlash on Live just trying to cover their butts from more discrimination suits? They were banning people for using any sort of homosexual language/references because they felt that the only time people would use those terms were in insults. It's just not nice to do, and they've fixed the problem. It won't hurt any one of you and I fail to see the problem.
 

Dr.LaRd

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Messages
302
you mean, people can find love while playing Halo?

LOL! i can't wait for the first gay halo marriage:

"i now pronounce you...master chief and master chief...you may now kiss the? uhh...." :D:D:D
 

Dekoth

Gawd
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
891
i'm honestly not trying to make it seem like that's ALL it would be used for as far as going out of their way to not play with hetero's :D

and that's great that your friends feel are that comfortable. i have family that are gay, and they are older...but alas their support system isn't...great....and so while they don't HIDE anything, they certainly don't act as comfortable as a hetero couple would..

i just want to make this clear - i'm not trying to go out of my way here to "defend" anyone. i'm just trying to make a point that, while this does seem pretty silly (my first reaction is of course "what the hell?? i don't care what you do in your bedroom....") it can actually be used for more good than any perceived bad...

i like the idea, that way i can stick to my kind - transgendered :D:D:D

Fair enough, but I simply disagree that more good comes from this then harm.

Does it affect any one of you? Why is there such a negative backlash on Live just trying to cover their butts from more discrimination suits? They were banning people for using any sort of homosexual language/references because they felt that the only time people would use those terms were in insults. It's just not nice to do, and they've fixed the problem. It won't hurt any one of you and I fail to see the problem.

Granted the only time any language like that is used it is an an insult. That is pretty much a given in online gaming. However the assumption that gays would be singled out without this option and they are the only ones on the receiving end is silly. If anything all this does is paint them as more of a target then before as now their sexual preference is in the open. So now even those who were not bothered by the jokes and insults since they could assume the other party was just flinging them randomly, stand a chance of being more of a target and now it becomes a real problem. So reality is they are creating a problem that didn't exist before.

Example:
Player A calls player B a fag because player B did something stupid.
Now let us assume for a moment that player B is homosexual. Player B can either Assume player A is just throwing general insults without any real knowledge of player B's preferences. Or player B can assume that player A is psychic and knows player B's deepest secrets and is calling him out in public. Since the second option is clearly absurd, player B is far more protected in this scenario.

Example 2:
Player B has to plug in his sexual orientation under the new system. He can either lie about it, or be honest. We are going to assume for this that he is honest as his preference should be nothing to hide. Now however his preferences are public domain and all other players know it. So Player A starts calling player B a fag because he did something stupid, and happens to know he actually is. Under this new system player B loses his anonymity and has to assume that player A is making a direct attack on his lifestyle. So now you have players who were otherwise ignored before, getting attacked.

Unfortunately everyone needs to remember one thing about this. Xbox Live is still the internet, and being the internet you must assume the worst of human nature. Because people have proven time and again, that on the net they will act like complete douchebags. Those who play Xbox live games should be especially familiar with this, I mean honestly when was the last time you played a public game that wasn't a cesspool?
 

Seventyfive

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
1,347
I think they did this so that if i'm flaming someone (no pun intended) I can say check their profile and tell them "dude that's so straight!".
 

peepingdan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
160
Fair enough, but I simply disagree that more good comes from this then harm.



Granted the only time any language like that is used it is an an insult. That is pretty much a given in online gaming. However the assumption that gays would be singled out without this option and they are the only ones on the receiving end is silly. If anything all this does is paint them as more of a target then before as now their sexual preference is in the open. So now even those who were not bothered by the jokes and insults since they could assume the other party was just flinging them randomly, stand a chance of being more of a target and now it becomes a real problem. So reality is they are creating a problem that didn't exist before.

Example:
Player A calls player B a fag because player B did something stupid.
Now let us assume for a moment that player B is homosexual. Player B can either Assume player A is just throwing general insults without any real knowledge of player B's preferences. Or player B can assume that player A is psychic and knows player B's deepest secrets and is calling him out in public. Since the second option is clearly absurd, player B is far more protected in this scenario.

Example 2:
Player B has to plug in his sexual orientation under the new system. He can either lie about it, or be honest. We are going to assume for this that he is honest as his preference should be nothing to hide. Now however his preferences are public domain and all other players know it. So Player A starts calling player B a fag because he did something stupid, and happens to know he actually is. Under this new system player B loses his anonymity and has to assume that player A is making a direct attack on his lifestyle. So now you have players who were otherwise ignored before, getting attacked.

Unfortunately everyone needs to remember one thing about this. Xbox Live is still the internet, and being the internet you must assume the worst of human nature. Because people have proven time and again, that on the net they will act like complete douchebags. Those who play Xbox live games should be especially familiar with this, I mean honestly when was the last time you played a public game that wasn't a cesspool?

Blaming the victim. It's not my fault if someone calls me a "fag". Why should we reward the people who want to do bad things by making a large group of people be quiet? If you want something in your own profile, and it doesn't infringe on the rights of others, then it shouldn't be a problem to anyone. I know that Xbox Live isn't a public forum, but I'd like to think that some great American ideals would seep through.
 

ajira99

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
205
I believe they got a lot of bad PR last year, when a man named Richard Gaywood got banned from using his own name as a gamertag. That led to a lot of investigation into what exactly you were allowed to express through your xbl profile, and it turned out that referencing 'straight' was fine, but any reference to alternate sequal orientations was bannable.

That led to some backlash. I'm guessing this is the result. While I agree that there is no need to discuss something like sexual orientation on a network like XBL,I think it's fine that they've updated the rules to clarify that there will not be discrimination.

If that's true, then they should have just dropped any reference to sexual orientation and made the profiles generic. I think reversal has more to do with the lesbian whose account was banned (due to her ignorance of the TOU), and was harassed by a bunch of morons online. If someone is interested in hooking up or proclaiming the sexual identity, use a private chat channel or just drop into Facebook. Geez!!
 

k1pp3r

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Messages
8,209
I would have to agree with Dekoth

You have to expect the worst out of people, especially when your in a public forum where you dont' have to look at someones face. This could end up opening the door to hate crime complaints on the pretents thats you knew the persons sexual orientation before you throw an insult at them.

There is nothing wrong with expressing yourself or your sexuality, but i just don't think this is the best way to do it.
 

peepingdan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
160
Why is everyone focused on the dating aspect? No one is seriously trying to find their soulmate on XBL. It's a group of marginalized people trying to spread awareness, not score a date with "Mr.Chief6969".
 
S

SpeedRunner

Guest
I haven't played xbox live in years. It sucks. Too many kids on there.
 

gathagan

Gawd
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
Messages
677
So.... raise your hand if you think that the number of times a 12-year-old calls someone "gay" or "f_g" will go down, now that people are able to put their sexual orientation in their profile.
Yeah, me neither.

Speaking of unintended consequences, I think that what what follows the Xbox policy section regarding sexual orientation is even more bizarre, in terms of doing more damage than good:
Other terms regarding relationship orientation are not allowed. In addition you may not use these terms or any other terms regarding relationship orientation to insult, harass, or any other pejorative use against other users.

The PC'rs in society don't seem to understand that insults are a constantly moving target.

You have the same dynamic at work regarding people who are physically or mentally "challenged".

Fool, idiot, retarded, handicapped, disabled... these are all terms that started out as clinical or scientific labels.
Once such terms become a part of the vernacular of a society; it's simply a matter of time before that become derogatory slang.

Trying to remove/forbid derogatory terms will never change human behavior.
If you want someone to behave well, you have to raise them to behave well, and then expect and demand that they behave well.

Like the saying goes: You can't legislate morality.
 

BloodyIron

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
3,439
What EVERYONE is missing here is that this is a notable shift for microsoft. this is because they have banned people in the past for simply stating they were not straight in any fashion, such as gay or homosexual or whatever. that is the only reason they were banned, and i'm sure this is a result of plenty of backlash.

It doesn't matter if someone lists it or not, what matters is now they aren't getting banned for it.
 

peepingdan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
160
So.... raise your hand if you think that the number of times a 12-year-old calls someone "gay" or "f_g" will go down, now that people are able to put their sexual orientation in their profile.
Yeah, me neither.

Speaking of unintended consequences, I think that what what follows the Xbox policy section regarding sexual orientation is even more bizarre, in terms of doing more damage than good:
Other terms regarding relationship orientation are not allowed. In addition you may not use these terms or any other terms regarding relationship orientation to insult, harass, or any other pejorative use against other users.

The PC'rs in society don't seem to understand that insults are a constantly moving target.

You have the same dynamic at work regarding people who are physically or mentally "challenged".

Fool, idiot, retarded, handicapped, disabled... these are all terms that started out as clinical or scientific labels.
Once such terms become a part of the vernacular of a society; it's simply a matter of time before that become derogatory slang.

Trying to remove/forbid derogatory terms will never change human behavior.
If you want someone to behave well, you have to raise them to behave well, and then expect and demand that they behave well.

Like the saying goes: You can't legislate morality.

And how do you do that? By raising awareness bit by bit, making the strange less so. You're also forgetting that many clinical/derogatory terms have been abandoned altogether. When is the last time you've called a mentally handicapped person a "trainable"? "Fag" has also never been a clinical word, so I fail to see how it applies here.
And I don't understand your conclusion. Previously, Microsoft was trying to "legislate morality". They've given up on that, and now allow people to do what they want. They are doing exactly what they should do, according to your post.
 

provoko

Gawd
Joined
Aug 6, 2004
Messages
656
This is a very good thing. Your less likely to use the word gay if someone is actually gay in the game.
 

Ur_Mom

Fully [H]
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
20,594
Why is it even relevant to playing games? Why cares, really?! Is it going to have penis/boob size next?

XBox Live and eHarmony are joining forces!

I always go up to someone and say "Hi. I'm Dustin. I'm gay."... Um. Yea, right. It's not something you just go out and tell random people. I've seen special needs people do that. "Hi. I'm Thomas. I like turtles!". It just doesn't matter. It's irrelevant on a gaming platform. Why would ANYONE need to know that information?
 

AceGoober

Live! Laug[H]! Overclock!
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
23,940
And you can bet your dollars to donuts there will be people who lie...

Chris Hanson: "Why don't you have a seat right over there..."
 

Lord_Anselhelm

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
101
Wow.

To anyone who just doesn't get why this is such a big deal for the LGBT/LGBTQ community, I feel kind of sorry for how isolated you are. Especially you Kyle. I don't mean that in a nasty way, just in a shocked kind of way.

Maybe I had it lucky. When I was at university at the University of East Anglia (UEA) in England, there was a huge LGBT community there. To that day I'd only known one gay guy and in spite of my best intentions was pretty damned biased myself, without realising it either. It wasn't until I got to know a large number of people from this community, just by virtue of being on the same courses, that I realised what a complete dumbwit I had been being.

This is a BIG deal. Please don't try to joke it off and sweep it under the carpet like it's not important. Not having to pretend your sexuality doesn't exist or is a bannable offence for mentioning is huge. Feeling free to be who you are, irrespective of sexuality, is as important, maybe more important to some, as it is to be clear about your ethnicity.

Imagine, if you will, a parallel world where you weren't allowed to declare your ethnicity (I won't use race as there is only one race for us: the human race) on Xbox Live. Everyone would be assumed "white" by default. If you tried to say what ethnicity you were, you could be in serious trouble. Now imagine that pressure was put on Microsoft to change this. You could now clearly talk about your ethnicity with pride without fear of lynching or mob retaliation, due to moderators actively defending your right to be whoever the hell you are.

That's what this is like. It's like emancipation, just instead of it being about ethnicity, it's about sexuality.

Maybe being prejudiced about sexuality is the new "racism". If so, do you REALLY want to side with the hatemongers?
 

Ibanezfoo

Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Messages
776
To anyone who just doesn't get why this is such a big deal for the LGBT/LGBTQ community,

WTF do those acronyms mean?

Maybe being prejudiced about sexuality is the new "racism". If so, do you REALLY want to side with the hatemongers?

....and people segregate themselves into <insert acronym here> communities and then bitch that people are treating them differently.... huh... did I miss something somewhere? :confused:

Seems like people just have too much free time on their hands and are banding together to create something to bitch about and play the victim role. If being gay is really no big deal, why do so many people keep trying to make it a big deal? Its like all the white people yelling and screaming for black folks...

Is it people wanting to be a victim of something or is it other people who want victims to help? People are going to hate, thats the way it is. If you throw things in their face they are just going to hate more.... unless thats what you want, the more you can get them to hate you the more of a victim you become (or savior to the "victims" if thats what you're after).... :rolleyes:
 

Myg

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
114
I can see now why Islam doesn't recognise sexual orientation; so they don't have to deal with this crap.

Gone are the days of simply stoning those we didn't like or agree with to death: Shame about that...

:)
 
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