List of Monitors with A-TW Filter?

10e

2[H]4U
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And that's the thing, it did have multiple pictures from all angles. Oh well, I felt I did my due diligence, took a gamble, but unfortunately lost this time. :(

At the very least you owe them negative feedback for calling it grade "A" with only cosmetic WEAR. That's cosmetic DAMAGE and they should know the difference. What a scam.

It's great that you received a good panel though. If you can find a replacement case for cheap they are fairly easy to remove and you won't damage the innards because they are built like fully-armored tanks.

I hope you enjoy it though. These are great screens.
 

powruser

Limp Gawd
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At the very least you owe them negative feedback for calling it grade "A" with only cosmetic WEAR. That's cosmetic DAMAGE and they should know the difference. What a scam.

It's great that you received a good panel though. If you can find a replacement case for cheap they are fairly easy to remove and you won't damage the innards because they are built like fully-armored tanks.

I hope you enjoy it though. These are great screens.

Yeah I was thinking the same about a replacement case. I took apart my 2090 to remove some dust behind the panel, so I know I can do that fairly easily if I ever come across a replacement housing.

10,000 hours is alot, but not really too bad at all considering how bright the backlight is. I should get a good 5 years out of it.

Besides the crack, it is an absolutely GORGEOUS panel. In reality, I actually did win the lottery with getting a good panel, which is the most important part. I could have gotten a perfect monitor cosmetically, but what does that matter if it has backlight bleed, dead pixels, or mura defects?
 

tunafish24

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@powrusr: good to hear that the seller is being somewhat responsible now.

Btw, I've had another ebay buyer say the same to me, her panel with 20K hours is very bright too. Which begs the question, is it even worth worrying about the backlight hours? Are you running yours at zero brightness?
 

Gatehouse

Weaksauce
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Yeah I was thinking the same about a replacement case. I took apart my 2090 to remove some dust behind the panel, so I know I can do that fairly easily if I ever come across a replacement housing.

10,000 hours is alot, but not really too bad at all considering how bright the backlight is. I should get a good 5 years out of it.

Besides the crack, it is an absolutely GORGEOUS panel. In reality, I actually did win the lottery with getting a good panel, which is the most important part. I could have gotten a perfect monitor cosmetically, but what does that matter if it has backlight bleed, dead pixels, or mura defects?

All 90 /P241W/PA series need Spectraview package to maximize their potential in terms of color accuracy.
 

SD45

Limp Gawd
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The 2090 is still shown on the NEC site as a current product.

Unless there are two variants, these must have the A-TW polarizer.
 

tunafish24

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There's a FAQ on NEC's website that their supplier doesn't make A-TW filter anymore, so I'm pretty sure 2090 doesn't have one either.
 

powruser

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The current 2090 is a new revision with a "-1" at the end, the new one doesn't have the polarizer.
 

tunafish24

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These are great screens and even an old example is still pretty darn good but I would definitely say you need SpectraView II with the older screens to properly calibrate them due to color drift from the aged back-light. Again, your mileage may vary here..

The touchscreen glass is definitely tough and would 10000% protect the panel from basically anything.

The question is whether you even want to remove it. It adds some glare, but not grain. I was mistaken in that earlier when I spoke of it as the grain is the anti-glare. Not a lot, but it's there. The added glare is also not a lot and much less than a glossy panel.

Just got my touchscreen monitor as well. WOW...this thing blows Samsung S24A850DW into dust! The backlight is so uniform, it's unbelievable. You can tell these people have really thought everything out, when you can choose the color and brightness of power LED :eek:

One thing though, I tried checking number of hours, but it's saying 00000H42M...which I suppose means that it only has 42 minutes on it? what gives?

Now about the touchscreen, I actually find it to be quite reflective, plus it adds that weired glare/haze to picture when viewing from angles - which is being caused by the thick touchscreen glass. So I'm strongly leaning towards getting rid of it.

@10e: Is it possible to put back the touchscreen once it's taken out?
 

10e

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Just got my touchscreen monitor as well. WOW...this thing blows Samsung S24A850DW into dust! The backlight is so uniform, it's unbelievable. You can tell these people have really thought everything out, when you can choose the color and brightness of power LED :eek:

One thing though, I tried checking number of hours, but it's saying 00000H42M...which I suppose means that it only has 42 minutes on it? what gives?

Now about the touchscreen, I actually find it to be quite reflective, plus it adds that weired glare/haze to picture when viewing from angles - which is being caused by the thick touchscreen glass. So I'm strongly leaning towards getting rid of it.

@10e: Is it possible to put back the touchscreen once it's taken out?

If you are careful removing it, yes it can be replaced. I'm a bit hamfisted so I can't, but I knew I didn't want to and decided to take the sledge hammer approach.
 

closers

Gawd
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@powruser

In my book your whole situation seems like a very calculated move by the seller. He knew full well what condition it was in all along and priced it out accordingly. It puts into question all his panels and is a good sign to stay away. What if one is cosmetically perfect but has screen blemishes, is it still Grade A of a different kind to him? Probably a good chance there is only one that is good cosmetic condition and it's the one pictured. Deserves a negative for misrepresentation regardless of mediation.

Is it even possible to do a complete swap of the casing?
 
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powruser

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I think it was an honest mistake. He said a new employee grabbed the wrong unit off the palette. Either way he made it right by giving me a $75 refund and he had fast communication the whole way through. $280 shipped for a perfect panel 1st generation 2490 is fine by me.



@powruser

In my book your whole situation seems like a very calculated move by the seller. He knew full well what condition it was in all along and priced it out accordingly. It puts into question all his panels and is a good sign to stay away. What if one is cosmetically perfect but has screen blemishes, is it still Grade A of a different kind to him? Probably a good chance there is only one that is good cosmetic condition and it's the one pictured. Deserves a negative for misrepresentation regardless of mediation.

Is it even possible to do a complete swap of the casing?
 

SD45

Limp Gawd
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I ordered the second-to-the-last unit (at the time) from this seller. It arrived safely packed and OK. No defects in the screen or otherwise, some minor scuff marks on the base and casing as indicated in the Ebay listing. I calibrated it yesterday. It had 8,275 hours on it, 0.22 black level at 120 intensity and 0.97 delta-E. Still young and rarin' to go.

They forgot to include the DVI cable for which the seller made an appropriate refund. No complaints. This seller did the world a favor by finding these displays and making them available for $399 or your best (accepted) offer. I wonder what kind of company acquired this many units and then sold them at a knockdown price before their time. I would not want to own stock in that company. Their management is either careless, ignorant, or has an inflated notion of their own importance, or all of the above.

Their cluelessness is second only to that of those who assume that all sellers are scheming rat bastards.
 

powruser

Limp Gawd
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Nice! Enjoy your monitor! How much did you pay out of curiosity? I offered 325 and he accepted.
 

tunafish24

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If you are careful removing it, yes it can be replaced. I'm a bit hamfisted so I can't, but I knew I didn't want to and decided to take the sledge hammer approach.

I was very methodical when removing the touchscreen, still couldn't take it off without any damage to the touchscreen interface cable. The hair-thin wires connected to it are glued because of the rubber seal and they will get damaged if you try to separate glass/touchscreen from the panel. After first few attempts failed, I just decided to get rid of the touchscreen interface - as the glass is quite thick and interferes with the image quality and I won't be putting it back anyway. I was also able to cleanly remove all rubber tape from the panel by peeling it off gently, and now that everything is put together - the monitor looks like it just got off the factory floor. Panel is in MINT condition...no dead pixels, no stuck pixels, no scratches, no backlight bleed, and no IPS glow!

I've been looking at different images on it, especially that Earth picture and everytime I look at the pic I have Eyegasim...this monitor is just toooo good. :D

Note to Self: Return S24A850DW
 

powruser

Limp Gawd
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Congratulations to you! that's 3 new 2490 owners that bought used units and got mint panels! I can't for the life of me understand why LG or NEC or whoever makes the A-TW polarized stopped making it
If they would put polarizers on the PA series monitors...
 

SD45

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I paid the $399 Buy-It-Now price. It was the weekend and there was no response to my offer. So I was sort of boxed in and wishing I had made an offer during the week. There were only two left at the time and if there was any difference in quality I wanted the better one.

I now see that the seller has listed more 2490s for sale.

It was because of your experience with this seller, powruser, that I bought this display.
 

Namelessme

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Is there any difference between the ones on ebay with the touchscreen, vs the $399 ones? Besides the touchscreen, of course... I just meant in regard to quality and the A-TW filter.

All 2490WUXis have the A-TW filter besides those with the '2' at the end of the model name, right?

And how is the antiglare coating on them, in general? They aren't as bad (grainy, sparkly) as modern IPS models, are they? I am guessing they are sorta like standard AG coating?

And does the A-TW filter result in better black/contrast for the entire image, or just removes IPS glow, primarily in the corners? I'm wondering how big a deal it is.
 

tunafish24

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Is there any difference between the ones on ebay with the touchscreen, vs the $399 ones? Besides the touchscreen, of course... I just meant in regard to quality and the A-TW filter.

Fundamentally no, The only difference is that on the touchscreen ones, 'One World Touch' has added a touchscreen on top of the panel. The touchscreen is basically a piece of 3/8" glass and it does affect the image quality and screen reflection. I would strongly recommend anyone to remove it - if they can. Also, the removal is a very delicate procedure, as the tape is very sticky and hard to get off, so need to have patience and cut gently. I just used a standard kitchen knife and had it at an angle all the time so that tip of the knife was always towards the glass touchscreen - that way you'll avoid scratching the panel. If you remove the touchscreen safely, you'll love whats underneath - a beautiful virgin matte panel :D

All 2490WUXis have the A-TW filter besides those with the '2' at the end of the model name, right?

Yes

And how is the antiglare coating on them, in general? They aren't as bad (grainy, sparkly) as modern IPS models, are they? I am guessing they are sorta like standard AG coating?

Comparing that to my TN and S24850DW panels, I would say it's about the same - maybe a tiny bit more than the samsung PLS panel. Also, I haven't seen Dell coatings so don't know how aggressive those are. For me as a programmer, this coating is perfect. Very little reflection and definitely don't notice any dirt on screen thingy.

And does the A-TW filter result in better black/contrast for the entire image, or just removes IPS glow, primarily in the corners? I'm wondering how big a deal it is.

I don't think it helps with black/contrast. AFAIK, A-TW (I think called Advanced True Wide) just helps with viewing from wide angles by removing IPS glow and let me tell you the result is very apparent. To be fair, I do agree that is a very slight tinting effect on this monitor - visible on dark screen, at angles. However, given the choice between Tint and IPS Glow, I'm fine with the tint, as you have to look hard to notice it.

To the people who has this monitor, what sharpness setting are you using?
 
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Namelessme

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@tunafish24

Thanks for all the info. If it's in the ballpark of the Samsung PLS, it may be to my liking, as the PLS is semi-glossy and most people like its coating. So long as it isn't super grainy, I can live with it.

Removing the touchscreen though does sound to be somewhat of a pain, however. I'm not all thumbs, but I think I'd be afraid I'd end up breaking something. Unfortunately the cost of the one without the touchscreen, $399 + shipping, is more than I want to spend -- unless it was a new monitor. I guess psychologically I have a problem spending so much and relying on luck, whether I get a decent panel or not. I have the fear of getting one cracked, or with dead pixels, or 20K+ hours on it.
 

tk-don

Limp Gawd
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To the people who has this monitor, what sharpness setting are you using?
26.2% (default I think). Also: Brightness: 0%, Contrast: 50%, Black Level: 50%. If using devices with a limited RGB range (such as 16-235 for TV signals), black level is set to 44.1% which corresponds to mapping RGB level 16 to level 0. All settings are defined individually for each input port.
 

tunafish24

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if you're slight bit technical (hey, you are on 'hard forum' right)...you should be able to take it out rather easily. Just don't rush it, or you'll end up scratching or pitting the panel and then have to live it. The whole procedure took me about an hour and a half, so it's not really that bad, just need to work slowly and steadly.

On the issue of number of hours, don't even worry about it. 20K hours won't affect the brightness much, Mine probably has 20k hours and I'm still running it at 30% brightness.
 

SD45

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Heh heh. The Ebay seller must be reading this forum. He now offers a "handpicked" 2490 with only 2,181 hours for $599 (vs. $399 for the others).
 

Namelessme

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Yeah, I noticed the $599 one too. I guess he figures he can cash in on that one.

I have some panel questions that's semi-related to the 2490. Why can this monitor provide a better image than more modern panels, such as the PLS? Tunafish24 stated that it blows away the S24A850DW, and I'm just wondering... why?

Is it due to the internals or the panel itself? The A-TW filter should matter, but I wouldn't think it'd matter so much as to make the 2490 overwhelmingly better than the PLS. Is it a case of comparing apples to oranges, or... very expensive apples to cheap oranges, I should say?

I guess I'm wondering if LCD panels have changed a whole lot over the past 5 years or so, as to overall image quality? There are faster panels, and LED backlights, and thinner bezels... but I am getting the feeling that modern panels may not be a whole lot different, or in some cases, worse, than good panels from 5 years ago.

Is it due to lack of real advances in LCD technology? Or simply because the 2490 was a real high-end monitor when first released?
 

tunafish24

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I have some panel questions that's semi-related to the 2490. Why can this monitor provide a better image than more modern panels, such as the PLS? Tunafish24 stated that it blows away the S24A850DW, and I'm just wondering... why?

Is it due to the internals or the panel itself? The A-TW filter should matter, but I wouldn't think it'd matter so much as to make the 2490 overwhelmingly better than the PLS. Is it a case of comparing apples to oranges, or... very expensive apples to cheap oranges, I should say?

I guess I'm wondering if LCD panels have changed a whole lot over the past 5 years or so, as to overall image quality? There are faster panels, and LED backlights, and thinner bezels... but I am getting the feeling that modern panels may not be a whole lot different, or in some cases, worse, than good panels from 5 years ago.

Is it due to lack of real advances in LCD technology? Or simply because the 2490 was a real high-end monitor when first released?

Liking something tends to be very subjective, so you have to ask yourself what is an "ideal" monitor for you. To me LED backlight, thinness, refresh rate, weight, power consumption aren't even secondary factors that I looked at. What I wanted primarily was a monitor that will have no backlight bleed and consistent backlight/colors from different angles...that's it. In terms of size, I was looking at 24" 16:10 - I believe that size & ratio is ideal for programmers, because 16:9 doesn't have enough vertical resolution.

So looking at my main requirements, the only choice I had was 24" IPS monitor...which is a very short list of available monitors. Among them, I decided to go with S24A850DW because of AG coating and newer PLS technology, which I assumed would have no/less IPS glow - because it's not even IPS to begin with. However, once I had it setup, I could hardly notice the difference between my TN and 850DW - as both showed weired effects when looking from angles. The issue is that TN panels don't have color consistency when viewing from angles, whereas PLS shows IPS glow, which basically is whitening/haze over entire screen. I really questioned whether it was wise to spend $500 on a monitor that is marginally better than TN.

That's where A-TW polarizer gives 2490 it's real advantage. It is an IPS panel without the IPS glow. The color and backlight consistency is exceptional (result of good quality control and panel). I strongly believe that the next step-up from this monitor would only be an OLED display. So that's what I based my *subjective* opinion on. If you actually look around, you'll notice that a lot of effort is being spent on making monitors thinner, giving them lower response time and having million contrast ratio, but it's just marketing BS. In real day-to-day usage, these things have very little to no positive effect on your experience.

I took a picture of A850 at an angle from my cellphone, but it didn't come out good. So here are a few comparison pics that I found online. Keep in mind that this is NEC IPS vs other IPS monitor(without A-TW) and you can clearly see the difference. In the end you have to makeup your mind about which monitor is right for you!

matrix-NEC2490WUXivsHPLP2475W.jpg


NEC on Left
planettiltao7.jpg
 
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Namelessme

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Thanks for the followup.

I suspect our ideal monitors would be very similar. I am currently using a CRT, primarily because I can't stand the AG coating on newer IPS screens. And I find 16:10 much more useful due to vertical space (4:3 is even better).

I can live with some grain (just not super heavy grain), and while I find the glow annoying, it's not a dealbreaker for me. I'm sort of surprised you found the PLS not that much different when comparing angles to a TN. I previously owned a U2412, and it was a ton better as far as angles go (at least compared to my junky TN I had lying around). But yeah, it had glow in the corners. And so much coating my eyes hurt when reading text. It is possible it glowed all over, for all know... I found the grain/sparkle from the coating distracting enough that I didn't concern myself with a little extra glow.

The S24A850DW is/was on my list of potential monitors, simply due to the semigloss coating. But price and QC issues put it somewhat low on my list.

It's strange that nobody puts A-TW polarizers into their monitors anymore. I guess it was overly expensive or something. I'd think it'd be a good selling point.

And yeah, most 'new' features found on monitors are faster refresh rates, making them thin as possible, touting LED as if it really matters to most people, and putting up great sounding contrast ratios that mean nothing. I guess that's what got me wondering if panels today are necessarily any better than good panels from 4-5 years ago.
 

tunafish24

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I honestly can't say anything about U2412, but from all the research I've done, Dell monitors seem to have more aggresive coatings. I guess someone who has NEC 2490 and a Dell monitor can give a better comparison of the two. FWIW, I don't see any sparkling effect on my monitor, nor find the AG coating obtrusive.

I think only NEC used the A-TW polarizer, but they removed it because of the tinting issue. At the end of the day, they have to listen to their business/professional users - their bread and butter.
 

closers

Gawd
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@SD45

They are probably government surplus. Now about your other comment, how would you feel if you got a monitor listed as Grade A that came with the casing cracked open? Would it have been that much trouble to have checked before having it shipped for such a glaringly obvious defect? Good on the seller to make amends. Mistakes do happen, but the fact the seller has differentiated the monitor pricing means it's more likely he knows what condition each and every one is. It also makes the fact the cracked monitor just coincidentally went to the lowest offer fishy. And that could have very well been you by the way.

@Namelessme

I tend to find CCFL screens have better uniformity. Take the EA231 versus EA232. With LED though, thin is in.

@tunafish23

LG had a few models in the same era and after that had ATW.
 
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powruser

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Now about your other comment, how would you feel if you got a monitor listed as Grade A that came with the casing cracked open? Would it have been that much trouble to have checked before having it shipped for such a glaringly obvious defect? Good on the seller to make amends. Mistakes do happen, but the fact the seller has differentiated the monitor pricing means it's more likely he knows what condition each and every one is. It also makes the fact the cracked monitor just coincidentally went to the lowest offer fishy. And that could have very well been you by the way.

Good point, never thought of it that way. Still, I'll take the crack in the housing for the extra $75 off, especially since he already accepted an offer of $325, making it $280 shipped, a ridiculous price all things considered. Besides, the crack isn't visible unless you actually go behind the monitor and look. Since the panel is 100% perfect, I'm not too upset. But if it had dead pixels or backlight bleeding, I would have used the crack as a reason to get a full refund.

@tunafish23

LG had a few models in the same era and after that had ATW.

I believe the HP DreamColor also has the A-TW polarizer.
 

powruser

Limp Gawd
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Can someone please link me to this Earth picture? I've seen it used as a viewing angle/backlight bleeding test image. I've Googled, but haven't been able to find the original image.

matrix-NEC2490WUXivsHPLP2475W.jpg
 

SD45

Limp Gawd
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Well, Closers, I have bought a lot of stuff on Ebay and I have certainly had one or two real bad-apple sellers. In one case the lying *itch tried to pull what you're suggesting and proposed a small refund after sending me something that was not even close to being what the listing promised. I refused her offer and made a counteroffer which she refused. I then got a full refund through Ebay. She then tried to slam me by filing derogatory feedback misleadingly filed as "positive" feedback. I got that removed by Ebay.

Most my buying experiences have been positive ones, though. If you want to continue to imagine other scenarios be my guest.

If as you suggest these displays were originally bought with our tax dollars, then everything I said about idiot managers in corporations applies. I can understand why a small graphic-arts studio, prepress shop, or other such operation might need them, but it would seem like they would have more hours on them. I am guessing that they were owned or perhaps leased by a larger operation that changed them out after a few years the way some outfits replace their company cars. I'm still wondering why they needed them in the first place. It's all idle speculation in any case.
 

closers

Gawd
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@SD45 Just exploring the possibilities all along so no need for vitriol. Everyone seems to be happy with what they got, including whoever sold them to the seller, so whatever there.

I have seen rarely used 2690 lots sold locally for a fraction of their value. Some people simply just do not care enough or have the time to, again it's all good just like the monitor I am typing on now was never registered had 90 hours and came essentially new in the box.

Shame nobody likes to make ATW anymore, probably never economical, no market segment cared that much. They might have thought the trend would catch on, but again who knows.
 

SD45

Limp Gawd
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A-TW: Probably one of those ideas that the engineers loved and which was too expensive to make money. Consider it a gift offsetting the creative destruction that occurs elsewhere. The same goes for the big companies that do not realize what they have and dump it on the market after a couple of years--one among the many stupidities that accompany their unique strengths. I say all this both as an engineer and someone who has been responsible for running a company and making it pay.
 
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