List of Monitors with A-TW Filter?

tunafish24

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I'm a software engineer who's been using a TN panel for half a decade now. Recently, while looking for a larger screen, I found out about IPS/PLS panels and I'm itching to buy one. The one I really really liked was the NEC 2490WUXi as it had an A-TW filter, however, the filter has been removed in the the successor of that model and It's a real pain in the b*tt to try to figure out which monitors on the market currently have the A-TW filter.

Can experienced users please chime in, so that we can make a list of monitors with A-TW filter?

If there are no monitors with A-TW filter, then I guess I'd have to settle with Samsung S24a850DW - because that monitor has less AG coating and is supposed to have better text clarity. Are there any NEC monitors with less AG coating/clearer text?
 

tunafish24

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There is one mentioned in other threads, but I don't see that model being available in US though?
 

tunafish24

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@ToastyX: Ignoring HP (> $2K), none of those models are available anymore, that's why I think we should make a new list :)
 

evilsofa

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A new list would be the same as the old list, because A-TW polarizer isn't being made anymore. It isn't being made anymore because the big-business color-critical customers did not like the A-TW's green/magenta glow at each corner of the display.
 

tunafish24

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@NCX: Isn't there any other technology equivalent to A-TW? or screen types that don't have IPS glow?

From what I've seen, the Korean ones don't have any AG coating at all. That's why I'm leaning towards S24a850 - because it seems to have a good balance. Plus, it's also available from buy.com for $429 with 45-day non-hassle return policy + no restocking fee.
 

tunafish24

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@evilsofa, yea...I read that somewhere...to bad they just decided to remove A-TW filter altogether, instead of keeping it in at least a select few models.
 

10e

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The only screen that has limited white glow is the Dell ST2220T. It has some sort of SIPS-II panel which has chevron pixels and a blue glow to black instead of silver/grey of the current IPS screens.

It's not as good in terms of off-angle glow as an A-TW polarized screen but since it has better lowest black levels it's somewhat competitive to that and generally better than most other IPS based screens.

Since I have an NEC LCD2690WUXI as well as an ST2220T I will try and take some comparison shots.

The only downside (for some) is that it is a glossy touchscreen. It's entertaining trying to calibrate it with a colorimeter when the USB hub on it is connected to a PC.


Otherwise you look at newer MVA panels from AUO such as those used in the BenQ EW/VW2420 series or Samsung S24A650D.

http://www.provantage.com/world-touch-llc-lm-2411-10~7ONWT002.htm

Provantage seems to still be selling a variant of NEC 2490WUXi with Capactive Touchscreen. I'm assuming that has the A-TW filter since its not WUXi2? How's the picture quality on that?

It's possible but the newer SKUs from them are actually WUXi2 screens without the A-TW polarizer(s), so it's quite possible it's just not an updated touchscreen SKU.

I have a 2490 that I ripped apart and removed the touchscreen. It is nearly perfect except it has 22,000+ hours on it and the back-light has turned warmer (redder) which means it loses a fair bit of contrast when it's calibrated for a D65 white point. Native white point is less than D50 or 5000K.
 

tunafish24

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@10e: how would you rate the AG coating on 2490 and NECs in general compared to Dell? I want good colors but not at the cost of my eyesight - I'm a software engineer..so stare at text all day :)
 

10e

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@10e: how would you rate the AG coating on 2490 and NECs in general compared to Dell? I want good colors but not at the cost of my eyesight - I'm a software engineer..so stare at text all day :)

The anti-glare coating is applied by the manufacturer of the panel, usually LG, Samsung, AUO, et al.... so it depends on the model and the panel. LG is usually exclusive in Dell UltraSharps and NEC WUXI/PA/P-series model.

Generally the 24" panels have some graininess and I would say the older LCD2490WUXi-BK and the new LCD2490WUXi2-BK are fairly similar, though a bit less on the older unit.

With 23" and 24" panels, neither is that heavy nor distracting. With 27" and 30" LG IPS panels, it can be.

Other issues to look for when looking for a good work screen, are LED excessive flicker or too bright back-lights with too-high brightness at the lowest settings.

I also find text is much less of an issue when I turn off Clear Type. The blurring and anti-aliasing cause me more trouble than anything.
 
Last edited:

tunafish24

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@10e: Is it worth buying a used 2490WUXi (first gen) off of ebay. Other than dead pixels and scratches, what else should I look for?
 

tunafish24

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cool..so what did you look for before proceeding with the purchase? how's the image quality and A-TW result on this monitor? Did you also check the number of hours on backlight?
 

tk-don

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It ought to have an amount of usage in the ballpark of what 10e's had.
Along with the 2090 (first gen), the WUXIs are one of the best (if not the best) sRGB displays when it comes to functionality coupled with image quality.
I'm using a Dell 2408WFP S-PVA at work and it's coating is very similar to the 2490WUXI - no real grain to speak of. I'm also doing software development and have no problems using either monitor. A HP 2065 IPS and ZR24W used elsewhere at work for different test setups are quite grainy though. As if they have smudges all over the screen (but unfortunately, they don't).
 

tunafish24

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@tk-don: since you have both S-PVA and IPS w/A-TW filter, how do 2490s blacks compare to S-PVA. I'm also looking for a good monitor for software development, are you happy with your 2490?
 

tk-don

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The black levels seem to be very similar... since both of the monitors have aged, the black level is in the ball park of 0.13 nits or so when at 0 % brightness. The 2408 has got a little bit of flashlighting from the upper two corners when viewed in darker environments, but I haven't got the chance to see it in complete darkness yet. The wuxi appears uniform in total darkness - but all this varies between units. It's very hard to obtain a half-decent sRGB emulation on the 2408 though, since it's native gamut is much higher than sRGB. It's possible, but you'd lose 40% contrast. The OSD is actually kind of slow to navigate - but it's bearable once you get to know it.
Not sure I get why Samsung don't manufacture any S-PVA panels with standard gamut. I also don't understand why Eizo and Dell use these wide-gamut S-PVA panels in monitors that offer very few calibration possibilites. Eizo tried with the CG241W, but it has been discontinued for quite a while now.
 

stefanp67

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There are ips/pls panels without heavy anti-glare so does anyone know why LG keeps insisting on applying it? could it have something to do with the panel quality that is less panel rejects if you cover up the defects?
 

Racer_J

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There are ips/pls panels without heavy anti-glare so does anyone know why LG keeps insisting on applying it? could it have something to do with the panel quality that is less panel rejects if you cover up the defects?

It's more likely because they are geared toward "business"/general consumer usage that aren't usually aware of a defect beyond an obvious pixel issue. It wouldn't make sense to need to try and hide anything under a heavy anti-glare film. I'm no fan of LG at the moment after they started selling the abomination known as the CS560 but, it's far more likely that they keep using the heavy anti-glare coating because it has no problem selling.
 

Namelessme

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The thing I don't get is, if geared towards business, that typically would mean graphics professionals. Yet there are numerous reports of the grain (especially on the Dell 27"er) being so bad that users couldn't differentiate between image artifacts or grain from the AG coating.

So I would think their AG coating would harm sales somewhat, at least for certain business sub-groups.

I'd also think that some LG panels would be glossy, or semi-glossy, just to increase overall sales. If you have some panels of both types, you get additional customers who want a glossy display (and don't want to pay Apple prices).

And there is also the oddity that there have been plenty of matte displays for years and years with AG coating that isn't quite as obtrusive as what they use on their IPS panels. I don't get why they need to go overboard so much, when standard AG coating seems to work fine on every other display out there.
 

Racer_J

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I completely agree about the 27" being beyond obtrusive. It was quite a thing to behold in person. I would also like to see an option offered on what type of coating a monitor has (or at least specific monitors). As for why they do what they do. only LG can tell us that but considering they "have no information on our 2012 televisions" and are selling some of them with features they don't actually have, I wouldn't expect any sort of explanation from them much less a truthful and plausible one. We know glossy and semi-glossy 27" 2560x1440 LG panels exist though so it's either because, they don't want to offer something different (due to logistics/risk/just not wanting to do so) or enough people aren't complaining or are in need of something different.
 

powruser

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cool..so what did you look for before proceeding with the purchase? how's the image quality and A-TW result on this monitor? Did you also check the number of hours on backlight?

I looked at the item description and pictures provided by the seller first. I haven't received the monitor yet, it was just shipped yesterday, but you can be sure I'll report on my findings once I take delivery.

I believe with the NEC 90 series, you need the Spectraview software to view the number of hours on the backlight, correct me if I'm wrong?

Image quality should be fantastic, similar to the quality of my 2090UXi's w/ A-TW polarizers.

I'm very excited, I've been searching for over a year to source a good condition used/refurbished 1st generation 2490WUXi for a good price, and it seems I've finally found it. Now I'm just praying the sellers description is accurate. As long as it has no backlight bleeding or dead pixels I'll be OK.

-Steve
 

tunafish24

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@powruser: When are you expecting the delivery? I found this in one of the threads, it should help you in confirming the number of backlight hours.

Go into the Advanced OSM:
- When the monitor is off, hold "Input" and press the power button. Hold the input button for 3-4 seconds and release. Press Select.
- Use the arrow keys to get to tab E.
- Press and hold Up and press Left.
- You'll now see the total amount of usage in both horizontal and vertical position.
 

tunafish24

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I have a 2490 that I ripped apart and removed the touchscreen. It is nearly perfect except it has 22,000+ hours on it and the back-light has turned warmer (redder) which means it loses a fair bit of contrast when it's calibrated for a D65 white point. Native white point is less than D50 or 5000K.

I'm thinking about going this route as well. Is the touchscreen glued to the panel or is it just placed on top of it? If it's just placed on top, then I think this is better than buying a regular monitor because the touchscreen has probably been protecting the underlying panel from scratches etc, so once removed, the underlying panel should look good as new?

Also, I read that it's relatively easy to replace CCFL backlight (plenty of youtube videos as well), since you've already opened yours up once, have you given any thought to replacing the backlight as well?
 

10e

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I'm thinking about going this route as well. Is the touchscreen glued to the panel or is it just placed on top of it? If it's just placed on top, then I think this is better than buying a regular monitor because the touchscreen has probably been protecting the underlying panel from scratches etc, so once removed, the underlying panel should look good as new?

Also, I read that it's relatively easy to replace CCFL backlight (plenty of youtube videos as well), since you've already opened yours up once, have you given any thought to replacing the backlight as well?

I have only entertained the back-light replacement, but I haven't had time to look into it fully. Either that or a panel replacement. The issue there is whether or not a new A-TW panel is available.

These are great screens and even an old example is still pretty darn good but I would definitely say you need SpectraView II with the older screens to properly calibrate them due to color drift from the aged back-light. Again, your mileage may vary here..

The touchscreen glass is definitely tough and would 10000% protect the panel from basically anything.

The question is whether you even want to remove it. It adds some glare, but not grain. I was mistaken in that earlier when I spoke of it as the grain is the anti-glare. Not a lot, but it's there. The added glare is also not a lot and much less than a glossy panel.

Removal took me roughly 1.5 hours give or take a few minutes.

The best way to remove the bezel is to actually put the monitor face down on a nice flat surface and unscrew every screw you can find on the back and lift the back casing off. This makes the bezel much easier to snap off as the casing keeps the bezel secured into the bump and loop clips.

As for the touch-screen removal, the touchscreen is secured/fastened to the panel by double-sided foam tape that looks like the grey open cell stuff used for weatherstripping. It is only secured on the panel's frame, not the panel itself, so it's not glued to the actual panel and can be removed.

You have to remove the casing of the monitor and stick an exacto knife between the panel and the touchscreen to cut this foam tape. You have to obviously be a bit careful that you don't scratch the panel, but it's not too tough to do if you don't recklessly try and bury the blade into it.

The touch screen is glass and if you pull without it being fully detached it can bend and then break on you. I was lucky as I only cracked it.

Do it in a work-shop area because you will probably have to clean up all thefoam "crumbs" every where. It made a mess in my basement. The foam tape deteriorated over time and became more brittle (typical of this crap to be honest).

The panel is also in-set an extra 1/8 inch and you'll notice that it is secured to the casing by a set of screws that let it sit further in. You have to remove the frame screws and gently move the panel to the top set of screw holes.

I'd also recommend at least removing the USB cable that interfaces with the touch screen logic module to make sure you can't get any shorts or funny problems.


So would I recommend the touchscreen version over the non touch? It depends because it's all about A ) How many hours are on the screen and B ) the quality of the individual unit and number of defects.
 

tunafish24

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@10e: Thanks a lot for the detailed write-up!

1. So there is anti-glare coating on the touchscreen? is there any on the panel underneath?
2. Since I'd be buying it off ebay, it's hard to get the sellers to figure out and tell you the number of backlight hours, screen uniformity etc. I just got banned by one seller for asking about it :D I was avoiding touchscreen because I thought it was part of panel and will affect image quality. Since it's an add-on and can be removed easily, I think it's worth a shot...expensive one though :)

Btw, I am getting my S24A850DW today and will update the respective thread based on my first impressions and possibly pictures (if they are worth posting). If that monitor is good enough, then I'll just forget about 2490 - which may turn out to be too much of a hassle.
 

powruser

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@powruser: When are you expecting the delivery? I found this in one of the threads, it should help you in confirming the number of backlight hours.

Go into the Advanced OSM:
- When the monitor is off, hold "Input" and press the power button. Hold the input button for 3-4 seconds and release. Press Select.
- Use the arrow keys to get to tab E.
- Press and hold Up and press Left.
- You'll now see the total amount of usage in both horizontal and vertical position.

Nice! Never knew that trick. Just did it on my two refurbished NEC 2090UXi's that I got straight from NEC, the one has 1414 hrs, the other has 4732 hrs, not bad at all!

I'm hoping to take delivery by Friday. If not Friday, then likely Monday. Shipping still shows as only label being printed, and it's signature required, and I work full time Mon-Fri so I probably won't be home during the day to sign for it.
 

powruser

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Received the 2490 today. Zero scratches on the screen itself, 10,000 hours, zero backlight bleed. Unfortunately, it has a severe crack in one of the rear corners, and the serial number sticker on the back is scratched off. I'm unsure if I should return it, because functionally it's perfect, with no scratches on the screen, no backlight bleed etc... but the seller lied about saying "Grade A" condition when it has a huge crack in it... I would have to pay return shipping, so I'm unsure what to do. I've contacted the seller. Here's a picture of the crack.

crackednecmonitor.jpg


What would you do in my position?
 

tunafish24

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Was it packed properly? Looks like someone dropped it during shipping...still proper packing should have saved it.
 

NCX

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I would try to get the seller to send another one at their cost and also pay for shipping the cracked one back.

That is a nasty crack, who knows how damaged it is internally....it may work now but who knows for how long.
 

Ruahrc

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If it's not shipping damage, IMHO the seller should most definitely be responsible for covering return shipping.

He is basically fraudulently describing the item condition if he thinks that is a "grade A" condition monitor. I don't know the exact policies but you should definitely have some kind of recourse when lied to like this.

Huge-ass pet peeve of mine but I HATE it when eBay sellers do this. Sadly this practice is so rampant on eBay that unless there are many large and clear photos of the actual item, from all angles, I automatically assume the seller is lying on the condition of the item and there is some hidden flaw or problem that they are covering up. IMHO things like this should be met with neutral or negative feedback and it should be the seller's responsibility to make the situation right.
 

alienate

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Yes as Ruahrc said get in contact immediately, show him the evidence, and let him know you feel you were ripped off. If he has another you can just send the panel no need to send the stand back. Ebay (and Paypal) are very good nowadays when it comes to protecting the buyer and I doubt he will want to test them.
 

powruser

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It's definitely not shipping damage. The seller packaged it extremely well actually. Very upsetting. There's zero chance he'll cover return shipping, so at the very least I'm out around 30 bucks. I'm seriously considering keeping it though. The actual panel is a perfect specimen, and the backlight is plenty bright even with 10,000 hours on it. I emailed him with the picture and my concerns, we'll see what it says. I wonder why the serial number sticker is off?
 

powruser

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If it's not shipping damage, IMHO the seller should most definitely be responsible for covering return shipping.

He is basically fraudulently describing the item condition if he thinks that is a "grade A" condition monitor. I don't know the exact policies but you should definitely have some kind of recourse when lied to like this.

Huge-ass pet peeve of mine but I HATE it when eBay sellers do this. Sadly this practice is so rampant on eBay that unless there are many large and clear photos of the actual item, from all angles, I automatically assume the seller is lying on the condition of the item and there is some hidden flaw or problem that they are covering up. IMHO things like this should be met with neutral or negative feedback and it should be the seller's responsibility to make the situation right.

And that's the thing, it did have multiple pictures from all angles. Oh well, I felt I did my due diligence, took a gamble, but unfortunately lost this time. :(
 

powruser

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Seller got back to me, here's what he said:

Dear powr_user,

I would be more than willing to offer a partial refund concerning this. Our personnel (new) in shipping went and picked out this item from the pallet. He is suppose to get one matching the description as we have many of these in various conditions. We did accept your offer on a significantly lower amount for yours, but I would be willing to supplement that with $40 and my sincere apology. Accepting your offer on this was not meant to give you a lower quality condition monitor.

Regards,
Bob


I'm considering taking the $40 and keeping the monitor. The actual panel is in PERFECT condition, ZERO scratches, ZERO backlight bleed, NO dead pixels. It does have 10,000 hours, but the backlight is VERY bright.


What would you do?

 
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