Linux Who? Windows Still King of the Desktop

ChadD

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Android is not desktop Linux. Otherwise you'd be able to run Android apps natively on desktop Linux. You need an emulator just like Windows to do it on desktop Linux to run Android apps.

Some software compiled for KDE doesn't run on a GNOME desktop.. so which one isn't Linux ? If a company adds a closed source store to a distro it doesn't stop being a Linux distro.
 

heatlesssun

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Some software compiled for KDE doesn't run on a GNOME desktop.. so which one isn't Linux ? If a company adds a closed source store to a distro it doesn't stop being a Linux distro.

But no Android app runs natively on desktop Linux and no desktop Linux app can run natively on Android. So there's no way that Android can be desktop Linux when they are 100% app incompatible.
 

BulletDust

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Android is not desktop Linux. Otherwise you'd be able to run Android apps naively on desktop Linux. You need an emulator just like Windows to do it on desktop Linux to run Android apps.

It's still Linux. Desktop Linux is based around GNU, Android is based around ART - That's the only reason why applications are (thankfully) not cross platform. Who wants to run an Android application on their Linux desktop? No thank you!

Although I do agree, when comparing desktop operating systems you cannot claim Android is specifically designed to be a desktop OS. Although give it proper windowed application and improved multitasking capability and it would be a very good contender.
 

gene0915

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I'm not talking about technical OS support, but 3rd party hardware and software support. With Windows being so dominant in desktop market share, clearly it's going to get most attention on the desktop from 3rd parties.

I agree, to a point. Windows hardware support appears better than Linux but as someone else already kind of touched on, Linux has come a LONG way in the past years. I have dabbled with Linux on and off for 20+ years. I remember having to download/compile source code to make hardware work but recently, that memory is rapidly fading as time marches on and everything "just works".
 

auntjemima

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Backwards compatibility?

Backwards compatibility is not a major selling point of Windows. Everything from games to accounting packages and drivers have backwards compatibility issues with Windows.

Without picking sides, saying backwards compatibility with a new OS version isn't a selling point is just ignorant.

Of course I never claimed this.

I claimed that backwards compatibility is an issue under Windows as it is under any OS. Most likely worse under Windows due to the amount of time it's been the dominant platform. I see nothing wrong with that statement.

Yes, you did.
 

ChadD

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But no Android app runs natively on desktop Linux and no desktop Linux app can run natively on Android. So there's no way that Android can be desktop Linux when they are 100% app incompatible.

Well most people aren't running ARM based Linux distros heatle. If you are all you need do is add the proper API and Libs used by said apps. The Emulators you speak of are barely that in the case of Linux all they are really doing is converting the ARM Lib calls the software is expecting to see.

There is Windows 10 software that won't run on Win 7. Yet I hear you talk about fantastic windows backward compatibility. Windows compiled for ARM doesn't run x86 compiled windows software without some form of translation layer. The same is true for Linux its not rocket science.

Android is a Linux distro compiled for ARM hardware. Yes in order to run ARM compiled software in X86 Linux you either have to recompile it or run a ARM->X86 translation layer. That doesn't change that both are running on the same kernel. For basic Android software it can often be recompiled for Linux with a few header changes and that's about it as long as it doesn't use specific hardware API calls.

ChromeOS now running Android Apps is a good example of my point heatle... all Google had to do to their more traditional Linux distro was add a few Libs and API hooks.
 

ChadD

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Yes, you did.

I'll say it.

I would say a vast majority of average users could give a shake about backwards compatibility anymore.

They have gotten pretty used to their mobile software updating itself without their input. The latest versions of many apps no longer work with the oldest Android hardware. People are starting to expect that from their desktop/laptop OSs as well. Heck even MS themselves have made it less an issue by moving almost all of their software offerings into the cloud.

Who cares about backwards compatibility when the Photoshops and MS words of the world now all work via the net anyway.

Its just not the selling point it once was and that is a fact.
 
D

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Quake-based engine games (Quake I, II, III and all others by other companies not directly id Software), Unreal and all it's various incarnations, etc, those games have played on everything for Windows 98 forward. If someone is claiming otherwise well, time to dismiss those opinions 'cause there's a few million fans of those games that would argue otherwise.

People really get into massive amounts of trouble when they spout off opinions as fact. :D

Disclaimer: massive nationally ranked Quake-engine based gamer here in my years as a gamer and I played them all, using a wide variety of Windows OSes, a wide variety of 3D gaming hardware from the original Riva128 through all the 3Dfx add-on accelerator Voodoo I and II cards and then the last 3dfx standalone card (note the difference there) that mattered, the Voodoo5 5500 AGP, and never had a single issue with any configurations of hardware and OSes (except for some gamma issues with Nvidia cards now and again due to driver problems).

So this thread is now 3 pages in (I have 40 posts per page) - I wonder how far the dead horse will be beat this time. :p
 

gene0915

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Here's how that article SHOULD have read:

Specifically, Windows ***7*** is the number one operating system on the desktop with no less than 49.42 percent, while Windows 10 is the runner-up with 25.36 percent. Even with Microsoft pulling out every trick in the book to boost Windows 10 adoption, it continues to flounder. From forcing people into "updating" to Windows 10 via Windows Update trickery and breaking Windows Update on a fresh Windows 7 install, the MAJORITY of people continue to hate Windows 10 and do everything in their power to stay on Windows 7. Pretty sad that an EIGHT year old OS is still crushing the brand new Windows 10.

Linux is only 4th right now with 2.14 percent, which isn't bad considering that there are virtually no hardware vendors that offer Linux on new PCs. (But some do!) This "OS lockout" is due to deals with Microsoft, and vendors have to "toe the line". I wonder why Microsoft locks vendors into such deals, what do they fear from little, old Linux? It's not like forcing vendors to pre-load Windows and work out deals with Intel's Secure Boot offers an unfair advantage over Linux adoption. Hey, wait a minute...........

No rival on the desktop
Adoption of Windows 10, on the other hand, seems to remain FAR behind Windows 7. Microsoft’s flagship product (Windows 10) continues to slide into the toilet as far as adoption rate is concerned.

Around Christmas, Windows 7 improved due to users demanding that vendors ship the eight year old OS on new hardware vs. the spy-tastic Windows 10.

Last month’s figures thus represent a slight decline for Windows and a small growth for Linux, which manages to grow from 2.05 percent to 2.14 percent. And yet, Linux is currently below the market share it held in July 2016, when it was running on 2.33 percent of the desktop computers out there.

It goes without saying that Windows 7 remains the king of the desktop, but we live in a world where this particular market is losing focus, and Redmond is actually losing in those sectors where everyone seems to go, including mobile. As more and more leaks come out about the broad spying that government agencies carry out on its' own citizens, folks are taking security and privacy more seriously and are looking towards products that treat them as a valued customer and not a data point to be spied upon. We see a bright future for Linux.

Microsoft failed to make Windows phones, Windows Vista, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, Windows 10 successful products, so the company is now trying to conquer Android and iOS by making its services available on these platforms, though without investing in its own platform the whole thing becomes substantially more difficult.
 
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auntjemima

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There is Windows 10 software that won't run on Win 7. Yet I hear you talk about fantastic windows backward compatibility.

You realize that this is FORWARDS compatibility, right? Heat is saying Windows 10 supports older software, not that newer software supports an older OS. You guys must be tired, because you shills don't usually slip up this much.
 

bobdabilder

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Thank god you're back. Windows was being put in a bad light. Glad you saw the bat signal.
On the desktop Linux simply isn't as good as many of its proponents say. And it's not so much the OS itself, it's the support. Sorry, but desktop Linux support sucks compared to Windows and these numbers are the reason why. Desktop Linux simply needs a LOT more users before the support issue gets better.
 

auntjemima

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I'll say it.

I would say a vast majority of average users could give a shake about backwards compatibility anymore.

They have gotten pretty used to their mobile software updating itself without their input. The latest versions of many apps no longer work with the oldest Android hardware. People are starting to expect that from their desktop/laptop OSs as well. Heck even MS themselves have made it less an issue by moving almost all of their software offerings into the cloud.

Who cares about backwards compatibility when the Photoshops and MS words of the world now all work via the net anyway.

Its just not the selling point it once was and that is a fact.

You keep making blanket statements, with no facts, and saying its fact. You have a bad habit of doing this.
 

ChadD

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You do understand this isn't backwards compatibility?

Your right I was wondering if you would notice. Yes I was serious and yes it was also partly a joke. lol

Really though yes there is plenty of stuff. Mostly old odd commercial hardware that doesn't work in Win 10 but did work in Win 7.

There is also a lot of prosumer audio hardware that either doesn't run or doesn't run well in Win 10 that ran fine in 7.

I would never count it against MS cause I think supporting software that is 20+ years old is stupid... but stuff from the XP era is even worse when it comes to support in 10.

You know I convert companies to Linux for a living. I have often run into odd CNC machines and the like that companies are keeping very very old Windows machines around to operate. They haven't upgraded them to newer versions of windows as some of their very expensive hardware simply won't work anymore.

MS windows compatibility when it comes to older software and hardware is pretty good... I'll give them that. Still when I run into stuff like that I often have a much easier time getting that stuff to work with a Linux box then I do with a shiney new copy of windows.
 

ChadD

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You keep making blanket statements, with no facts, and saying its fact. You have a bad habit of doing this.

Your right there is no study I can point to that says look look people don't care about backwards compatibility anymore. Really think about what I have said though. Does it sound wrong to you ? When is the last time you saw anyone trying to run software designed to run on XP ? How about the last time you helped someone with software or consumer hardware from Win7 era that didn't have a big old Win10 update to download right away ?

People don't in general run into compatibility issues all that often anymore with any OS so they stop worrying about it. That's just common sense, I don't think we need to conduct a scientific study to figure that out. There was a time when sure MS could claim it as a selling feature as it was something other companies didn't always commit to... that just isn't the case anymore. The average user just expects Win = Win... Mac = Mac... Android = Android. All of the majors have done a good job of making it a non issue.
 

ManofGod

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Android = Linux. I'm sorry heatle put your fingers in your ears if you like. It runs the Linux kernel, that makes it Linux. Desktop mobile are silly names that people will stop using soon enough. A computing device is a computing device. As for Linux it doesn't matter if your running a Gnome desktop or KDE or Unity or Mate or Android. Those are just UIs they are all still Linux.

I'm simply making my regular point... who cares desktop usage is still shrinking and Linux owns everything else. The shift over to the desktop is still inevitable. Sure sure the year of the linux desktop never came and never will... who cares the future of the "desktop" as you would describe it is bleak.

The future for the average user that sites hit counters are watching is in products like the Samsung Dex. I doubt highly very many of the average user crowd will be purchasing "desktop" computers for much longer.

Android is not Linux. Otherwise, why are you not installing Steam on it and playing your Linux compatible games on it?
 

heatlesssun

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Your right I was wondering if you would notice. Yes I was serious and yes it was also partly a joke. lol

Really though yes there is plenty of stuff. Mostly old odd commercial hardware that doesn't work in Win 10 but did work in Win 7.

There is also a lot of prosumer audio hardware that either doesn't run or doesn't run well in Win 10 that ran fine in 7.

No one said that Windows was perfectly backwards compatible. However if these products you mention are still on the market I bet they are Windows 10 compatible now.

Your right there is no study I can point to that says look look people don't care about backwards compatibility anymore. Really think about what I have said though. Does it sound wrong to you ? When is the last time you saw anyone trying to run software designed to run on XP ? How about the last time you helped someone with software or consumer hardware from Win7 era that didn't have a big old Win10 update to download right away ?

The general expectation when upgrading any OS is that it will support the overwhelming majority of the hardware and applications running under the old OS. So I have no idea what anyone arguing the importance of backwards compatibility is getting at. It what everyone expects.
 

Doward

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Some software compiled for KDE doesn't run on a GNOME desktop.. so which one isn't Linux ? If a company adds a closed source store to a distro it doesn't stop being a Linux distro.

As a Gentoo user that frequently mixes Gnome and KDE applications, I'm going to have to request source for this statement.
 

Snowdog

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There is Windows 10 software that won't run on Win 7. Yet I hear you talk about fantastic windows backward compatibility. .

Windows 10 software not running on Windows 7, is a Forward Compatibility issue. Not a backward compatibility issue. No evolving Operating System will be forward compatible.

So all the talk about Windows fantastic backward compatibility is still justified.
 

BulletDust

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Yes, you did.

You're totally splitting hairs with this one!

Windows suffers from backwards compatibility issues just like any other OS, I deal with them all the time. Therefore claiming that it's supposed backwards compatibility with older software is a major selling point is completely unfounded. Just as you quoted in your post.

Once again, I'm not going to blow hot air up the arse of Microsoft where it's blatantly unfounded.
 

BulletDust

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Android is not Linux. Otherwise, why are you not installing Steam on it and playing your Linux compatible games on it?

Android is in every sense of the work Linux, every sense of the word.

I explained why you can't run applications cross platform Android vs GNU/Linux..

Linux is a kernel, like the NT kernel. However unlike the NT kernel the Linux kernel is useful without it's GUI. The implementation of the GUI on top of the kernel as well as slight differences with associated libraries is the reason why you cannot play Android games on a Linux desktop - And I am glad for that.
 
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heatlesssun

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Windows suffers from backwards compatibility issues just like any other OS, I deal with them all the time. Therefore claiming that it's supposed backwards compatibility with older software is a major selling point is completely unfounded. Just as you quoted in your post.

This makes no sense. Everyone here using Windows 10 is using either hardware or software or both that they acquired before Windows 10 existed and I doubt my experience is rare, where 10 has been virtually 100% compatible with everything I used in 7 or 8.x. Not saying backwards compatibility is perfect, just pretty damned good.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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It's absolutely frightening how many people are still browsing the public net with operating systems no longer receiving security patches.

- Windows XP: 7.44%
- Windows 8 (without 8,1 upgrade) 1.57%

...and probably a good chunk of the "other" category.

Don't do it. NOT EVEN ONCE!
 

Insula Gilliganis

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]Windows XP: 7.44%

FINALLY.. someone mentions the REAL "stunner" of this NetMarketShare article!! Been technically dead 3 years but still being used by millions and apparently not all that riddled with security holes.. no XPocalypse occured!! It was, after all, made with "advanced security technologies"!! At least that is what that rich guy said about it!!

58177a3f190000a502c2fff8.jpg



It's absolutely frightening how many people are still browsing the public net with operating systems no longer receiving security patches.

I still have a XP machine that has a single core 32-bit CPU and an Abit mobo that supports only 2GB of memory, so no point in putting a more modern OS on it as it runs fine.. AND gets security patches though the POSReady registry change.. for 3 more years. Granted, this machine hardly ever gets used as there are 4 laptops, 3 desktop and 1 iPad in our family that gets used more often and only the iPad or Chromebook are used for online purchases.. but with manually updating anti-virus, turning javascript off, and running not as administrator but as guest, this machine is probably OK to surf for a while longer.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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FINALLY.. someone mentions the REAL "stunner" of this NetMarketShare article!! Been technically dead 3 years but still being used by millions and apparently not all that riddled with security holes.. no XPocalypse occured!! It was, after all, made with "advanced security technologies"!! At least that is what that rich guy said about it!!

58177a3f190000a502c2fff8.jpg





I still have a XP machine that has a single core 32-bit CPU and an Abit mobo that supports only 2GB of memory, so no point in putting a more modern OS on it as it runs fine.. AND gets security patches though the POSReady registry change.. for 3 more years. Granted, this machine hardly ever gets used as there are 4 laptops, 3 desktop and 1 iPad in our family that gets used more often and only the iPad or Chromebook are used for online purchases.. but with manually updating anti-virus, turning javascript off, and running not as administrator but as guest, this machine is probably OK to surf for a while longer.

Windows XP wasn't great on the security front. Anything with UAC is in a completely different league.

That being said, I was unaware of the POSReady registry change. That's clever. I feel pretty certain that the overwhelming majority of those still browsing the web on XP are not using that registry tweak, and have known unpatched zero days galore. Anything that gets patched is better than anything that doesn't.
 

BulletDust

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This makes no sense. Everyone here using Windows 10 is using either hardware or software or both that they acquired before Windows 10 existed and I doubt my experience is rare, where 10 has been virtually 100% compatible with everything I used in 7 or 8.x. Not saying backwards compatibility is perfect, just pretty damned good.

Only if you constantly update software. Photoshop Elements 8, for example, is not guaranteed to work under Windows 10 and Adobe will hang up the phone if you ring them with issues running the product under Windows 10. Many of the popular accounting packages are not guaranteed to work under Windows 10 - And don't work under Windows 10. The list goes on....

....In fact many of the professional packages you rely on the use of Windows in order to run are woeful when it comes to backwards compatibility, this is a fact, this is not something I pulled out of my arse! OSX is even worse in this regard!

Backwards compatibility is something to consider when shopping for any OS, like Windows. But it is by no means guaranteed and Windows is no exception to this issue, so for that reason alone you cannot consider it to be a major selling point.

You claim Linux users overstate the capabilities of their preferred OS, yet you do the exact same thing!
 
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Formosa

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FINALLY.. someone mentions the REAL "stunner" of this NetMarketShare article!! Been technically dead 3 years but still being used by millions and apparently not all that riddled with security holes.. no XPocalypse occured!! It was, after all, made with "advanced security technologies"!! At least that is what that rich guy said about it!!

58177a3f190000a502c2fff8.jpg





I still have a XP machine that has a single core 32-bit CPU and an Abit mobo that supports only 2GB of memory, so no point in putting a more modern OS on it as it runs fine.. AND gets security patches though the POSReady registry change.. for 3 more years. Granted, this machine hardly ever gets used as there are 4 laptops, 3 desktop and 1 iPad in our family that gets used more often and only the iPad or Chromebook are used for online purchases.. but with manually updating anti-virus, turning javascript off, and running not as administrator but as guest, this machine is probably OK to surf for a while longer.

US NAVY nuclear carriers run XP... nuff said.

Untill the NSA and CIA totally uses plian jane vanilla WIN 10 ... NOPE NOPENOPENOPENOPENOPE
 

ole-m

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The cynic in me remains pleased Edge is failing for no other reason than the bullshit nagging Windows 10 makes you go through to remove it as your default browser. "Are you sure?!" "Wait, are you SUPER DUPER SURE!??"

Crap like that made me install Linux, I am pleasantly surprised.
Still have that dualboot for gaming purposes.

Linux did not send a couple of hundred mb of user stats by default, nor did it ask me if I wanted O365 test for a month or something, or use IE Edge instead of Chrome, or having Candy Crush saga ads on a professional version of Win10!!!!
Ads in my OS.. jeez!
 

BulletDust

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Crap like that made me install Linux, I am pleasantly surprised.
Still have that dualboot for gaming purposes.

Linux did not send a couple of hundred mb of user stats by default, nor did it ask me if I wanted O365 test for a month or something, or use IE Edge instead of Chrome, or having Candy Crush saga ads on a professional version of Win10!!!!
Ads in my OS.. jeez!

I'm so glad to hear Linux is running well for you, good job ole-m!
 

BloodyIron

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I do, actually. Games like master of Orion 2, quake, settlers 2, and so much more. Newer versions of Windows break reverse compatibility with games written for it all the time. But I can play them better I Linux typically.

These stats don't matter. I run Linux on 3 desktops. Does that mean I get 3 votes? What about the people using Windows and Linux?

I do all my work on Linux, I'm fed up with Windows. Telling me skewed stats changes nothing. I have more and more friends and clients asking me about getting setup with Linux than ever before.


Who here running Linux is trying to play 16 year old games for instance, that's the difference compared to other OSes.
 
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almalino

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I am Linux user and it is so funny to see other Linux user trying to deny the stat. We are in the minority because Linux is getting closer to simplicity of Windows but still nowhere near it.
 

BulletDust

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I am Linux user and it is so funny to see other Linux user trying to deny the stat. We are in the minority because Linux is getting closer to simplicity of Windows but still nowhere near it.

Except it's undeniable that it's impossible to quantity an OS that isn't sold via retail channels. Individuals can try to claim that this is simply the Linux shills being overzealous, but the fact is that it's a claim that's literally indisputable.

I've installed probably over 20 machines off my one ISO of Ubuntu MATE 16.04, ISO's can be passed from person to person and downloaded as torrents. Furthermore, as per my prior example, web counters are notoriously useless and Steam statistics give percentages that are difficult to relate to actual user statistics until Steam once again releases their overall number of users. Obviously Steam's growing, but by how much is anyone's guess?

Hence the reason why this post, not to mention the related click bait article, are next to useless and downright odd.
 
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Saist

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This is quite the stunner, but it turns out that Linux is still dominated by Windows. Those of you who already knew that water is wet may turn to NetMarketShare for something of more substance, which has revealed the latest percentages of desktop OS market share. On the flipside, Microsoft is doing much less impressively in the browser world, as its Edge continues to flounder and be irrelevant.

…statistics provided by NetMarketShare for the month of March 2017 show that Windows not only that is the leading choice for desktop computers across the world but it also maintains a level that gives Microsoft absolutely no reason to worry that anything could change soon in this regard. Specifically, Windows is the number one operating system on the desktop with no less than 91.59 percent, while Mac is the runner-up with 6.27 percent. Linux is only third right now with 2.14 percent, so before overtaking Windows, it first needs to win again Apple’s operating system.

Most Linux Desktop Users don't care about marketshare. Never have. Likely never will. There's a reason (they) happily scrap about what Desktop Interface is better than another; or about the differences between Window Managers and Desktop Environments; or even about what code creation tools they use.

Mobile Linux, as in Android, became dominant because Danger/Google decided they didn't care about maintaining application compatibility with other Linux systems; nor did Danger/Google care about re-using the vast existing GNU Operating System stack that had long defined the Debian and Red Hat software ecosystems and their downstreams like Ubuntu or Suse. (no Suse, I'm not sorry) Bypassing the traditional Linux cliques entirely... resulted in a product that now dominates the computing world. Let me try and put this in perspective with a deliberate insult: "Collectively speaking Nobody uses Iphone."

In terms of World Wide marketshare... the Iphone doesn't exist. Much like Linux as a Desktop Operating system; Iphones are only used by a select minority of users.

So what's the point then... for a developer... to even support the Iphone or Desktop Linux? Both have negligible market-shares in their respective total markets.

Apple and it's legions of developers are quick to point out that those who use the Iphone are likely more affluent, more likely to be somebody with a higher-paying job, and more likely to spend money on a product. Which is, technically, true. You'd only buy an Iphone... or a Galaxy Flagship for that matter... if you have disposable income. Apple leverages a perception of being a market leader to drive developers to the IOS Platform.

Linux... kind of has that type of advantage from another aspect. If you are a coder... or a system's administrator... or a content creator working in a Hollywood special effects shop... chances are you use Linux. So most heavy-lifting companies such as Google, IBM, or Oracle break their backs to make their products work atop Linux. Just as Apple uses the marketshare of who is likely to have an Iphone to bring in outside developers, Linux slowly becomes more and more a reality for the Computer Science major looking to make a career. It's where all of the new functionality get's developed (Apple and Microsoft routinely raid User-Interface ideas from KDE and the Gnome Cliques); where all of the new and upcoming languages get deployed first (seriously, outside of C#, name a programming language that started life in Windows or Apple); and where all of the heavy kernel research gets done (how many times have Apple and Microsoft only supported new kernel-level functionality ONLY after it was in a Linux kernel... and just to drive the hammer home... ARM's big.LITTLE only worked on Linux scheduling for how many years?)

Simply leading a pack doesn't always guarantee marketshare success. Case in point is of course Apple, which did ignite the smartphone form factor as we know it today; and now only talks about millions of device activations while Google talks billions. For Desktop Computer users there's always been a factor of software inertia. The vast majority of software a desktop user likely owns... was probably built for Microsoft Windows since that's what was popular in retail channels 20 years ago when Microsoft was breaking all kinds of trade laws. Average computer users have been quick to adopt to Web-Sites and Chromebooks; as evidenced not just by the domination of Chrome based browsers as tracked by various websites; but also by the routine appearances of Chromebooks in best-seller lists on retailers like Amazon where Windows laptops get blown away with massive 10:1 or higher ratios. Yet... all of those instances of Chrome Browsers... and Chromebooks... aren't regarded as desktop systems. I mean, why would they be? They don't run the vast majority of software a user previously bought.

Which leads into why Windows dominates Steam charts. Part of is bound in the library Steam users likely already on. I've been over that in 2013 and 2015 so I won't re-quote myself yet again outside of linking:
[URL='https://plus.google.com/+JeSaist/posts/akmis6xWuZC']May 01, 2013
[/url]
[URL='https://plus.google.com/+JeSaist/posts/B1MXVeujPZt']Jun 04, 2015
[/url]

The point to be made in respect to developing for Linux is that marketshare is always a mugs game. "Nobody" can tell you what platform or operating system will be most popular next. "Nobody" knew that Android would come to completely dominate modern day computing. "Nobody" knew that Microsoft would borrow UI designs from Gnome to make Windows 8. "Nobody" knew that the Ipad would stop selling.

The point to be made next is that what matters is code quality.

Applications that are well documented, leverage platform neutral API's, and avoid black boxes of code that "Nobody" understands anymore... are those best positioned to ride whatever wave of computing comes next. Pushing applications into Network-Attached-Storage and Network-Attached-Processing; aka "The Cloud"; was a direct result of programmers using languages that could run on any platform; not just a language that only worked on a single platform from a single vendor. Microsoft has, apparently, under the current CEO come to terms with the reality that Microsoft simply won't matter in the server market anymore; so now Microsoft contributes code to the Linux kernel and various virtual machine groups to ensure that all those vendors pushing LinuxVM's... might consider a Windows Management host since it's likely that their previous system's administrator was probably trained on Windows and why hire a new person if the employee who is already present can do the job? Likewise; Microsoft seems to have come to terms with the concept that it's days as a desktop kingmaker are over; and now is pushing it's software development stack into the Open Source realm while making sure the vast array of programmers who were trained in the Windows world can now address the Linux reality.

So what does all this mean for games? For the vast majority of software people likely already have? It means that Microsoft is basically stuck where they were with each previous Windows release; making sure the software a user already has works on the latest version of Windows. It means that there will likely be a steady source of income for porters bringing older titles up to date; like the re-master of Turok.

For game developers and game publishers... it means learning the lessons that Linux users have been shouting for years. Clean up the tool chain; clean up the code; and don't use platform specific API's. In theory publishing to Desktop Linux, Windows, and OSX should be a simple matter of telling the compiler which platform to target. Complex applications like Google's Chrome, The Document Foundation's Libre Office, Mozilla Firefox, and MariaDB have been crossported between operating systems for years with little difficulty.

Let me put it like this: If publishing to other platforms means having to re-write substantial sections of the source code and implement entirely new API's... YOUR CODE IS BROKEN!!!!

The larger takeaway then is to not get too wrapped up in questions of marketshare or user penetration. The key is to focus on good coding practices first.

Good coding practices make is far easier to be flexible in regards to market changes. It might not mean that one desktop platform or another suddenly rises up and takes over... but it will mean that whenever the next generation of computing platform comes along... whatever it is... coders will be better positioned to address that new computing platform. That it also puts the programmer, developer, or publisher in a position to support whatever the end-user wants to use right now? That's just a happy little bonus.

****

edit: okay. I had no idea the GPlus links were going to be interpreted as a Media link instead of a URL...
 

nightanole

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 16, 2003
Messages
2,025
Meh i want to see the stats of residential vs business/commercial. Until all those undead win7 boxes at corp die (because they are 10 years old by now) that 50% market will never change.
 

BulletDust

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 17, 2016
Messages
6,057
Most Linux Desktop Users don't care about marketshare. Never have. Likely never will. There's a reason (they) happily scrap about what Desktop Interface is better than another; or about the differences between Window Managers and Desktop Environments; or even about what code creation tools they use.

Mobile Linux, as in Android, became dominant because Danger/Google decided they didn't care about maintaining application compatibility with other Linux systems; nor did Danger/Google care about re-using the vast existing GNU Operating System stack that had long defined the Debian and Red Hat software ecosystems and their downstreams like Ubuntu or Suse. (no Suse, I'm not sorry) Bypassing the traditional Linux cliques entirely... resulted in a product that now dominates the computing world. Let me try and put this in perspective with a deliberate insult: "Collectively speaking Nobody uses Iphone."

In terms of World Wide marketshare... the Iphone doesn't exist. Much like Linux as a Desktop Operating system; Iphones are only used by a select minority of users.

So what's the point then... for a developer... to even support the Iphone or Desktop Linux? Both have negligible market-shares in their respective total markets.

Apple and it's legions of developers are quick to point out that those who use the Iphone are likely more affluent, more likely to be somebody with a higher-paying job, and more likely to spend money on a product. Which is, technically, true. You'd only buy an Iphone... or a Galaxy Flagship for that matter... if you have disposable income. Apple leverages a perception of being a market leader to drive developers to the IOS Platform.

Linux... kind of has that type of advantage from another aspect. If you are a coder... or a system's administrator... or a content creator working in a Hollywood special effects shop... chances are you use Linux. So most heavy-lifting companies such as Google, IBM, or Oracle break their backs to make their products work atop Linux. Just as Apple uses the marketshare of who is likely to have an Iphone to bring in outside developers, Linux slowly becomes more and more a reality for the Computer Science major looking to make a career. It's where all of the new functionality get's developed (Apple and Microsoft routinely raid User-Interface ideas from KDE and the Gnome Cliques); where all of the new and upcoming languages get deployed first (seriously, outside of C#, name a programming language that started life in Windows or Apple); and where all of the heavy kernel research gets done (how many times have Apple and Microsoft only supported new kernel-level functionality ONLY after it was in a Linux kernel... and just to drive the hammer home... ARM's big.LITTLE only worked on Linux scheduling for how many years?)

Simply leading a pack doesn't always guarantee marketshare success. Case in point is of course Apple, which did ignite the smartphone form factor as we know it today; and now only talks about millions of device activations while Google talks billions. For Desktop Computer users there's always been a factor of software inertia. The vast majority of software a desktop user likely owns... was probably built for Microsoft Windows since that's what was popular in retail channels 20 years ago when Microsoft was breaking all kinds of trade laws. Average computer users have been quick to adopt to Web-Sites and Chromebooks; as evidenced not just by the domination of Chrome based browsers as tracked by various websites; but also by the routine appearances of Chromebooks in best-seller lists on retailers like Amazon where Windows laptops get blown away with massive 10:1 or higher ratios. Yet... all of those instances of Chrome Browsers... and Chromebooks... aren't regarded as desktop systems. I mean, why would they be? They don't run the vast majority of software a user previously bought.

Which leads into why Windows dominates Steam charts. Part of is bound in the library Steam users likely already on. I've been over that in 2013 and 2015 so I won't re-quote myself yet again outside of linking:
May 01, 2013
Jun 04, 2015

The point to be made in respect to developing for Linux is that marketshare is always a mugs game. "Nobody" can tell you what platform or operating system will be most popular next. "Nobody" knew that Android would come to completely dominate modern day computing. "Nobody" knew that Microsoft would borrow UI designs from Gnome to make Windows 8. "Nobody" knew that the Ipad would stop selling.

The point to be made next is that what matters is code quality.

Applications that are well documented, leverage platform neutral API's, and avoid black boxes of code that "Nobody" understands anymore... are those best positioned to ride whatever wave of computing comes next. Pushing applications into Network-Attached-Storage and Network-Attached-Processing; aka "The Cloud"; was a direct result of programmers using languages that could run on any platform; not just a language that only worked on a single platform from a single vendor. Microsoft has, apparently, under the current CEO come to terms with the reality that Microsoft simply won't matter in the server market anymore; so now Microsoft contributes code to the Linux kernel and various virtual machine groups to ensure that all those vendors pushing LinuxVM's... might consider a Windows Management host since it's likely that their previous system's administrator was probably trained on Windows and why hire a new person if the employee who is already present can do the job? Likewise; Microsoft seems to have come to terms with the concept that it's days as a desktop kingmaker are over; and now is pushing it's software development stack into the Open Source realm while making sure the vast array of programmers who were trained in the Windows world can now address the Linux reality.

So what does all this mean for games? For the vast majority of software people likely already have? It means that Microsoft is basically stuck where they were with each previous Windows release; making sure the software a user already has works on the latest version of Windows. It means that there will likely be a steady source of income for porters bringing older titles up to date; like the re-master of Turok.

For game developers and game publishers... it means learning the lessons that Linux users have been shouting for years. Clean up the tool chain; clean up the code; and don't use platform specific API's. In theory publishing to Desktop Linux, Windows, and OSX should be a simple matter of telling the compiler which platform to target. Complex applications like Google's Chrome, The Document Foundation's Libre Office, Mozilla Firefox, and MariaDB have been crossported between operating systems for years with little difficulty.

Let me put it like this: If publishing to other platforms means having to re-write substantial sections of the source code and implement entirely new API's... YOUR CODE IS BROKEN!!!!

The larger takeaway then is to not get too wrapped up in questions of marketshare or user penetration. The key is to focus on good coding practices first.

Good coding practices make is far easier to be flexible in regards to market changes. It might not mean that one desktop platform or another suddenly rises up and takes over... but it will mean that whenever the next generation of computing platform comes along... whatever it is... coders will be better positioned to address that new computing platform. That it also puts the programmer, developer, or publisher in a position to support whatever the end-user wants to use right now? That's just a happy little bonus.

****

edit: okay. I had no idea the GPlus links were going to be interpreted as a Media link instead of a URL...

Downright spot on post.
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,647
Except it's undeniable that it's impossible to quantity an OS that isn't sold via retail channels. Individuals can try to claim that this is simply the Linux shills being overzealous, but the fact is that it's a claim that's literally indisputable.

I've installed probably over 20 machines off my one ISO of Ubuntu MATE 16.04, ISO's can be passed from person to person and downloaded as torrents. Furthermore, as per my prior example, web counters are notoriously useless and Steam statistics give percentages that are difficult to relate to actual user statistics until Steam once again releases their overall number of users. Obviously Steam's growing, but by how much is anyone's guess?

Hence the reason why this post, not to mention the related click bait article, are next to useless and downright odd.

This is hardly click bait nor it is useless nor downright odd. Heck, if Linux was shown to have a 20% marketshare through these stats, you would be the first to trumpet their validity. The person you quoted has it right, his logic is undeniable. :)

Let me guess what you are going to say: I am a Windows user only, I do not know Linux or have not used it since 2006 nor gamed on it, I think all the OSes are the same for everyone, I need to let it go, LOL......... I probably missed something here. :D The cool thing is, reality does not change regardless of our perception of it.
 
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