Linux Gaming Is on a Life-Support System Called Steam

ole-m

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
452
Flat out, Linux doesn't have a decent gaming or a decent market share because it is hard to use. Sure, there have been improvements in the basic UI and usability, but there is ALWAYS something that has to be done from the command line, and that is EXACTLY what makes it hard to use.
I find linux really really easy, so did my mom who struggled with windows till I gave her ubuntu, no issues since.

My take on the root of all evil in linux world.

FORK AND FORK.
Hey, I don't like the name of the project, let me fork this.
But hey, I don't like that we use GCC, lets fork it.
Hey, This new desktop thingy, I don't like it so lets just fork it.

Hey, I've made this cool thing, but then you need to install this and that cause your distro doesn't have it because I don't like that distro so I made my own...
That is my take on the issue.... I'm a linux user and I really don't agree with what they're doing cause the forking for forks gotta stop.
 

bigdogchris

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
18,102
I find linux really really easy, so did my mom who struggled with windows till I gave her ubuntu, no issues since.

My take on the root of all evil in linux world.

FORK AND FORK.
Hey, I don't like the name of the project, let me fork this.
But hey, I don't like that we use GCC, lets fork it.
Hey, This new desktop thingy, I don't like it so lets just fork it.

Hey, I've made this cool thing, but then you need to install this and that cause your distro doesn't have it because I don't like that distro so I made my own...
That is my take on the issue.... I'm a linux user and I really don't agree with what they're doing cause the forking for forks gotta stop.
That's been one of my arguments. Rather than gathering the troops to pound out a really awesome version, groups keep releasing their own versions.

Another reason I think it's not working is the performance is usually worse on Linux (for a variety of reasons). PC gamers always are looking for the maximum performance. If Linux could somehow get to a point where it's running games better than Windows I think the transition to it would happen quickly.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
3,544
The same could be said for windows thanks to Steam's dominance.

Honestly though, Steam isn't "life support" for Linux gaming, it's the only heartbeat it ever had.
 

dgingeri

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
2,830
I find linux really really easy, so did my mom who struggled with windows till I gave her ubuntu, no issues since.

My take on the root of all evil in linux world.

FORK AND FORK.
Hey, I don't like the name of the project, let me fork this.
But hey, I don't like that we use GCC, lets fork it.
Hey, This new desktop thingy, I don't like it so lets just fork it.

Hey, I've made this cool thing, but then you need to install this and that cause your distro doesn't have it because I don't like that distro so I made my own...
That is my take on the issue.... I'm a linux user and I really don't agree with what they're doing cause the forking for forks gotta stop.
For the most basic stuff, like installing some apps from the apps center and running basic office or web apps, it's usable, but that is only a minor segment to what a computer is used for. If that's all a user is doing, they're better off with an iPad these days.
 

SolarisGuru

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
75
Gaming on Linux has improved tremendously over the years. I’d say right now is the best I’ve ever seen it. Valve has taken great strides in improving playability on Linux. Lutris is also another fantastic platform for Linux gamers I’ve had great success with.

My problem is no matter how many times I try to fully switch over to Linux, I’m never 100% satisfied with the performance of my games. Certain games may run smooth as butter but others will experience various issues. Some I just consider unplayable even after major tweaking. I’ve tweaked and gotten things better, but still not a great experience.

I recently converted fully to Linux Mint 19.1 and stayed on it for about two weeks before I realized some of my favorite games will probably never play that well. I wound up coming back to Windows 10 1809 and everything just works and it works 100%. Every game is smooth as butter at top notch quality and I never have any issues.

I’ll try Linux again in a few months and see how things have improved. I want to get away from Microsoft as much as I can, but gaming is a big part of my life. One of these days....
 

gene0915

n00b
Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Messages
37
Flat out, Linux doesn't have a decent gaming or a decent market share because it is hard to use.
I disagree. I believe Linux has a poor market share because of the death grip Microsoft has on the OEM market. And hard to use? Not for my 6 year old or my 63 year old mother-in-law. I moved both over to Linux Mint and my child has no problem installing/playing Linux games from the Steam store. My M-in-L just uses a PC to surf the internet and Skype. Zero complaints from either of them.

Sure, there have been improvements in the basic UI and usability, but there is ALWAYS something that has to be done from the command line, and that is EXACTLY what makes it hard to use.
Guess you never used DOS, which was nothing but a command line and gasp, we were able to launch games and configure our system from it! THE HORROR!!!! I use Linux Mint as my distro of choice and GAME on it from time to time and 2+ years in, I can't remember the last time I used the command line for anything. Well, I occasionally open up a terminal and do a quick 'dmesg' to check for system problems. In Windows, the equivalent would be going into Event Viewer and checking the system log...... which btw, is more clicks then me checking dmesg in Linux. :)

A gui gives us clues and hints about what we can do with various buttons. A good gui gives multiple ways to do things and always makes it obvious about how to do things.
Totally agree. Linux gives us many GUIs .... MATE, Cinnamon, XFCE, etc. I'm no Linux expert but I can't think of anything I can't do in a GUI vs. requiring that I use a terminal. But, in the example I used above....dmesg.... doing that in a terminal is infinitely quicker then poking around in the GUI of Event Viewer.

Yes, using Linux is different. If your only experience with a PC is Windows, you'll have to change your mindset. When you were born, did you instantly know everything about DOS/Windows? Or did you develop that knowledge over years/decades of use? People are afraid of change and resist it. That behavior is in our DNA. But so is the capability of learning new things.

We don't have to hunt through 20,000 pages of search results to find the info, it is just there, in front of us.
When I have Linux problems, a quick Google search usually gives me the answer instantly. When I first started using DOS/Windows, I didn't have Google. It was trial and error, reading magazine articles and asking friends with more knowledge than me. If anything, using Linux is easier today because if you have problem X, what do you know.... there's a video on YouTube where you can WATCH somebody fix the problem. Or hop on Google/countless Linux forums and ask for help.

A command line does NONE of that. It sits there with a blinking cursor and the user could type anything in. In totally random circumstances, most of what a user might type in would do nothing. We would have to JUST KNOW the right command structure. Sure, it's wide open that we can do anything with it, and that is exactly the point. Being wide open does absolutely nothing to tell us how to do what we want to do. A basic command line is the worst ui in the history of computing. That's why we keep trying to cover it up with more and more gui.
..... you really seem to be hung up on the command line? Every. single. word. you just typed could easily apply to DOS 30+ years ago. Heck, I'm confused.... are you referring to DOS or the terminal in Linux?!?! You DO realize that outside of installing Arch (which dumps you into a terminal after it's installed), virtually every Linux distro includes a nice, pretty, colorful GUI after it's installed, right?

Windows, is particular, does well because they research and test to find how people behave and how the find things, so they can do it best, and then they take that info and point their people to it. They have a singular leadership that says "this is how we're going to design this gui", and then the people do it.
Hahahahahah!!! Research and test..... Windows ME=CRAP! Windows Vista=Ultra crap. Doing away with the start button, forced reboots, forced telemetry, OS breaking patches...... yup, lots of testing there. Don't be naive. Yes, Linux has had some bad kernel updates as well. Operating systems are created by people, which are prone to mistakes.

Windows is consistent and it is obvious, and that is why people use it.
I don't agree. See above..... MS......death grip on OEMs..... that's why most people use it. But fear not, I believe that bind is SLOWLY unraveling. As everything moves into the cloud, it will be less important what OS end users are using. MS even acknowledges that as time goes on, the desktop OS will become less relevant. At my brother's company, his executives stated that they will start a pilot later this year and do some testing with moving a single group of folks to OpenOffice/Linux desktops and "see how it goes". If the results are positive, they'll target another group, etc. If they can do a complete switch to Linux, the money they will save is STAGGERING due to their size.

Linux's basic premise of "open source" where anyone can do anything their own way is EXACTLY why it will fail. There is no research on the best way to do things. There is no singular leadership that gives any direction on how to do things. People just do things they way they want, and many times that is horribly, horribly awkward and wrong for anyone besides the person who wrote it. (Saltstack is a perfect example of such. What a horribly awkward program that is. I'm sure there are many more. I just think of that when I think of any awkward and horrible piece of software.) Being of the very nature of everyone doing their own thing makes it into some weird amalgamation of many good ideas and many bad ideas that just ends up being something like deep fried chocolate covered tofu speghetti and pulled pork steeped in scotch and covered in toothpaste. It will NEVER work.
I see the point you're trying to make but that is a strength of Linux. If you don't like what distro X offers, build your own. With Windows (and Linux), you have many choices for a browser. Chrome, Chromium, IE, Edge, FireFox. IE/Edge suck compared to Chrome/FF. Being able to use alternate programs on your OS is nice! And look at the default Windows .log file viewer. It's complete garbage compared to NotePad ++. Having more options is better than having less options.

Canonical tried to do the whole 'leadership' thing with Ubuntu and were making great strides until they pulled a MS and forced that awful Unity interface on everyone and people started dumping them. After a few years, like MS, they gave up on Unity (like MS gave up on removing the Start button) and gave people what they wanted. So MS has made their fair share of ignorant business decisions. As for your 'chocolate/toothpaste' analogy, I agree. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should or it's right. Crappy distros usually die a quick death or have a VERY small number of followers.

I switched to Linux on my PC because of the many bone headed things MS has done over the years. I don't care for their business practices and the design decisions they have made with Windows. I can game/video edit/surf the internet/etc. with Linux just as easily as I did with Windows.
 

seanreisk

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
1,392
I have no problems saying that Linux users are some of the most intelligent and computer-savvy people I have met. But they are not the most empathic, and they seem to be blind to the fact that it is really easy to get lost without a lifeline while installing or using Linux. Linux's history and the platform it was modeled on don't help. The way it is developed, the decentralized nature of the pieces that make up Linux, and the way it is distributed don't help. The fact that two different distributions can use 70% of the same components but be wildly different operating systems doesn't help, and the fact that you can get an explanation on how to download, install and configure a needed component without realizing that the instructions are not for your distribution makes it a real bitch. And people in the Linux community are terrible at doing documentation.

Linux is based on UNIX, which was a robust time-sharing command shell with a crash-proof memory scheme and a strong file system. It was designed to run for days or weeks without a restart. It was never a personal computer. Read "In The Beginning Was The Command Line" by Neal Stephenson (he wrote this in the 90's, so it's a little bit anachronistic, but it's still relevant).

Linux games are not taking off because Linux games are for Linux users, and Linux users are a small segment of the computer industry. Until Linux has a major epiphany and ceases all development while it completes about five years of focus testing on how people use a computer, nothing any Linux supporter says can change that. If you're a person who loves computers you'll try Linux because you love the journey. If you're a business that is looking at an IT installation that will require three full-time techs you might look at Linux because you have to hire IT professionals anyway. Otherwise, Linux is not for you.


P.S. Every Linux advocate has a story about someone who finds Linux easier. Every NRA advocate has a story about someone whose life was saved by someone with a gun. Every cooking advocate has a personal recipe for biscuits.

P.P.S. Linux is great for programming, but there isn't a single word processor for Linux that hasn't gacked on me when I started making tables and columns. GIMP and Inkscape are fine, I've used both, but they like to crash every few hours. That's a problem.

P.P.P.S. I have a friend who is a Linux admin who used to push me to try Linux for gaming. Last time I talked to him he wasn't gaming much because he and a few of his friends were trying to recreate IBM's MVS mainframe OS so it would run on an ARM processor. Frankly, this upholds my idea of a Linux user.

P.P.P.P.S. If you're asking for Linux help on any forum and the advice you're getting is either unintelligible or is not working, it is best to kill the thread and start over somewhere else. If your thread grows longer than half a page, sooner or later you'll be eaten by the Linux user who thinks that people who aren't fluent in Linux should be killed and buried under salted ground.

P.P.P.P.P.S. I hate Windows. But I only have three choices for an operating system, and I have stuff to do.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
974
I tried Linux gaming distro and it sucked and not user friendly ,
Plain truth windows is the go to gaming platform for me. I am spoiled with windows for gaming and it looks like it will stay that way.
 

ScuNioN

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
109
Flat out, Linux doesn't have a decent gaming or a decent market share because it is hard to use. Sure, there have been improvements in the basic UI and usability, but there is ALWAYS something that has to be done from the command line, and that is EXACTLY what makes it hard to use.

A gui gives us clues and hints about what we can do with various buttons. A good gui gives multiple ways to do things and always makes it obvious about how to do things. We want to do something, we take a look around at it, and we find the button or pull down menu that seems to be the one to do what we want. The more logical and consistent it is, the easier it is to tell where that is. We don't have to hunt through 20,000 pages of search results to find the info, it is just there, in front of us.

A command line does NONE of that. It sits there with a blinking cursor and the user could type anything in. In totally random circumstances, most of what a user might type in would do nothing. We would have to JUST KNOW the right command structure. Sure, it's wide open that we can do anything with it, and that is exactly the point. Being wide open does absolutely nothing to tell us how to do what we want to do. A basic command line is the worst ui in the history of computing. That's why we keep trying to cover it up with more and more gui.
Heck there is the argument that people game on consoles because they don't want to deal getting the game to run on their PC. Prior to Steam, some games had great difficulty running on every Windows configuration; even with Steam this might be the case. Then you have to configure the game settings, keys and graphics settings. It is not a insert disc and go play deal.
 

PenGunn

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
349
I tried Linux gaming distro and it sucked and not user friendly ,
Plain truth windows is the go to gaming platform for me. I am spoiled with windows for gaming and it looks like it will stay that way.
I find games actually run better on Linux quite often. My Stalker games run very well indeed. Use winetricks for drivers.
 

DogsofJune

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
3,681
I enjoy gaming on Linux. I enjoy gaming on my Windows boxes too.

Beats the DOS days with Qemm and a 386dx 40. Omg, you had to know syntax in a non GUI interface.....Oh noes.....
Even in Win 10 I still accomplish things in the command prompt.

People grumble about change, embrace the options and choose what is useful for you. That's my take on it. All OS's have flaws. It's finding the right one, whether MS or Linux or some other alternative, that provides what you need. Bitching about, "Oh it'll never come to be, this OS is the only one" is ridiculous and small minded.
 

ChadD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
4,588
I tried Linux gaming distro and it sucked and not user friendly ,
Plain truth windows is the go to gaming platform for me. I am spoiled with windows for gaming and it looks like it will stay that way.
Well you are pointing out one sore spot with lots of Linux people. Gaming distros are so terrible.

Its not because gaming on Linux is bad... its just what they meant by gaming distro is not what the average Windows Gamer would think.

Let me guess you tried Fedoras gaming spin right .... Man I hate those guys sometimes. That spin uses 100% open source... and by gaming spin they mean they include a ton of open source games. There are some good open source games don't get me wrong... but that spin doesn't help you play AAA Linux games never mind AAA windows games.

In general... if your new to Linux stay way from any specialized spins.

Manjaro... is your go to AAA gamer distro. It Rolling but more stable then super cutting edge rolling. However its not locked to old versions of things for 6 months to 3 years. It ships with non-free drivers if your an nvidia user so no need of any complicated installation. It ships with Steam already installed, and all the other things most users would spend a hour installing right after they clean install windows. And its based on Arch Linux which means it has darn near every bit of Linux software out there in its repos.

Anyway agree with your point somewhat. Choosing the proper distro has always been one of the issues with getting people to switch. Options are fantastic they really are... but if you have no idea what to expect, the lists of differences are a foreign language.
 

trparky

Gawd
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
971
Linux's basic premise of "open source" where anyone can do anything their own way is EXACTLY why it will fail. There is no research on the best way to do things. There is no singular leadership that gives any direction on how to do things. People just do things they way they want, and many times that is horribly, horribly awkward and wrong for anyone besides the person who wrote it.
Linux is by far the perfect example of too many cooks in the kitchen, everyone wants to add their own special stuff to the soup.

Now if there was some kind of unifying group to create one single mass market distro of Linux where the purpose of that distro of Linux is that it's usable for everyone from the common man to the computer geek it would literally be the Linux distro that finally kills Microsoft.

Unfortunately the very concept of Linux being that it's open source and that choice is at its very core is the reason why Linux hasn't taken over. The general public does not want choice, they just want it to work. Let me repeat that... they just want it to work! They don't want to care to know how it works, they only care that it does work. Unfortunately the Linux community is still very infected by the neck beards who believe in choice just for the sake of choice and until those dinosaurs die off Linux will never topple Microsoft. Funny it took Google to make Linux mass market... it's called Android.
 

ChadD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
4,588
One thing about this article.....

They suggest Linux gaming would be done without steam.

They aren't really going far enough. Lets be honest. PC gaming would be dead without steam.

If Valve folded shop tomorrow. Would windows gamers really stick with the PC. Lets just watch and see how long it takes all these other Game stores to fail. I give Epics store 2 years tops.

Its the Netflix effect... once one service is both early and good enough. Users get pretty attached. With steam it may even be worse as at this point most gamers have 100s of steam games.

I have little doubt with out Steam at this point... most PC users would be as likely to become console gamers as they would to embrace an alternate store and replace their libraries.
 

trparky

Gawd
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
971
PC gaming would be dead without steam.
Once again we come back to the idea of "choice". People don't want choice, they want to go to a single place to get their stuff and just have it work. As much as people hate "app stores" it's what made the likes of Android and iOS as popular as they are with the average user. One place, search, click, install, play on.
 

ChadD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
4,588
Once again we come back to the idea of "choice". People don't want choice, they want to go to a single place to get their stuff and just have it work. As much as people hate "app stores" it's what made the likes of Android and iOS as popular as they are with the average user. One place, search, click, install, play on.
Exactly one of the things Linux has over windows for average users. One package manager to take care of everything. One update process for the OS and everything else.

The issue in years past has been what users have had to do if a bit of software they want isn't in the main repositories.

Lots of ideas to fix it from PPAs... to Snaps and flatpak. In general though Linux is getting to a point where average users never have to leave the GUI package manager for anything at all. And if its not there its in the snap store.
 

trparky

Gawd
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
971
Steam makes this concept work flawlessly for Windows and Linux.
Yeah but that idea tends to go against what most in the Linux community like.
Exactly one of the things Linux has over windows for average users. One package manager to take care of everything. One update process for the OS and everything else.
But Microsoft brought that to Windows, it's called the Microsoft/Windows Store but people hate it. But people like Steam, they like the software repos on Linux; but they hate the Microsoft one to the point where people have learned ways to rip it out of Windows 10. I get it, Microsoft bad... everyone else is good.
 

ChadD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
4,588
But Microsoft brought that to Windows, it's called the Microsoft/Windows Store but people hate it. But people like Steam, they like the software repos on Linux; but they hate the Microsoft one to the point where people have learned ways to rip it out of Windows 10. I get it, Microsoft bad... everyone else is good.
Or its just their implementation.

I am fine with a Linux package manager. But the second it tried to sell me software... I tend to hate it. I don't want to be forced to use a store. Another thing with Linux package managers... I have 100% control at all times. Average users won't go in and set things like how many old versions it should be keeping in cache ect... but I have 100% control over that and everything else it does at all times. None of them try to hide what they are doing from me.... anything that seems logical to configure I can. I'm not saying they need to add a GUI with 1001 options no it can be dead simple and stupid proof on the GUI... but I can easily edit conf files or issue commands via CLI for everything I could possibly need or simply want to change.,

MS removes control for everyone not just average users. Which tends to draw hate. If the MS store was simple and easy to use for average users... but still gave power users complete control. Perhaps the power users would stop trying to kill it with fire... and telling their average user friends that its evil.
 

Nobu

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
3,978
Yeah but that idea tends to go against what most in the Linux community like.

But Microsoft brought that to Windows, it's called the Microsoft/Windows Store but people hate it. But people like Steam, they like the software repos on Linux; but they hate the Microsoft one to the point where people have learned ways to rip it out of Windows 10. I get it, Microsoft bad... everyone else is good.
I don't like the windows store because it's clunky and has a bunch of junk in it (although there are some gems). There's not a bunch of good stuff because devs don't like it (ask them what they dislike about it).

On linux you aren't limited to a "store" curated by one company, and even if you were, you could help to improve it if it were clunky or uninviting to devs or users.

I think it's fair to compare the two, but you have to look at more than just "this is an app store, that's an app store, app stores are bad..."
 

trparky

Gawd
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
971
But the second it tried to sell me software... I tend to hate it.
But why? Developers do need to eat, they need money to put food on the table. Apps are sold in the Google Play Store and in the Apple iOS App Store yet people don't bat an eye. The moment Microsoft does it people grab their pitchforks and torches.
On linux you aren't limited to a "store" curated by one company
But that's why the Google Play Store and the Apple iOS App Store are both so successful. For the average user it takes the decision making and choice away from them which is just fine for the average user. I keep coming back to my central point... people do not want choice, they just want it to work.
I don't want to be forced to use a store.
You don't want to be forced to use an app store but the majority of people want it. Again, that's why the Google Play Store and the Apple iOS App Store are both so successful.
 

Nobu

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
3,978
But why? Developers do need to eat, they need money to put food on the table. Apps are sold in the Google Play Store and in the Apple iOS App Store yet people don't bat an eye. The moment Microsoft does it people grab their pitchforks and torches.

But that's why the Google Play Store and the Apple iOS App Store are both so successful. For the average user it takes the decision making and choice away from them which is just fine for the average user. I keep coming back to my central point... people do not want choice, they just want it to work.

You don't want to be forced to use an app store but the majority of people want it. Again, that's why the Google Play Store and the Apple iOS App Store are both so successful.
Then why isn't Microsoft's store popular? It's more than just that.
 

Nobu

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
3,978
That I can't tell you why.
Let me assist, then:
https://www.businessinsider.com/developer-windows-10-app-store-is-a-mess-2016-1/
http://www.fixedbyvonnie.com/2014/08/microsoft-windows-store-seriously-sucks/#.XHLhCrlMF-F

The windows store is clunky, and you can't find the apps you want. Devs can't even find their own apps unless they are very specific in their search. The store is loaded with bunk apps masquerading as legitimate ones, some that you have to pay for. It's a broken store.

By contrast, steam, apple, and google heavily police their stores (more apple and google than steam), and searches on them give relevant results with few (believable, at least) fake apps. And with flatpaks and snaps you can still get the apps directly from the source if you don't trust or can't find it in the store (and they'll work on any distro that support the format).
 

trparky

Gawd
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
971
Let me assist, then:
https://www.businessinsider.com/developer-windows-10-app-store-is-a-mess-2016-1/
http://www.fixedbyvonnie.com/2014/08/microsoft-windows-store-seriously-sucks/#.XHLhCrlMF-F

The windows store is clunky, and you can't find the apps you want. Devs can't even find their own apps unless they are very specific in their search. The store is loaded with bunk apps masquerading as legitimate ones, some that you have to pay for. It's a broken store.

By contrast, steam, apple, and google heavily police their stores (more apple and google than steam), and searches on them give relevant results with few (believable, at least) fake apps. And with flatpaks and snaps you can still get the apps directly from the source if you don't trust or can't find it in the store (and they'll work on any distro that support the format).
OK then, Microsoft needs to clean up their store then if they expect people to use it.
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
11,853
Let me assist, then:
https://www.businessinsider.com/developer-windows-10-app-store-is-a-mess-2016-1/
http://www.fixedbyvonnie.com/2014/08/microsoft-windows-store-seriously-sucks/#.XHLhCrlMF-F

The windows store is clunky, and you can't find the apps you want. Devs can't even find their own apps unless they are very specific in their search. The store is loaded with bunk apps masquerading as legitimate ones, some that you have to pay for. It's a broken store.

By contrast, steam, apple, and google heavily police their stores (more apple and google than steam), and searches on them give relevant results with few (believable, at least) fake apps. And with flatpaks and snaps you can still get the apps directly from the source if you don't trust or can't find it in the store (and they'll work on any distro that support the format).
So, a over 3 year old article and a site that forces me to agree to something before I can view it? o_O:rolleyes:
 

Nobu

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
3,978
So, a over 3 year old article and a site that forces me to agree to something before I can view it? o_O:rolleyes:
Yes, feel the pain. :p
Seems it's not as bad as it used to be. Last article I could find was from 2017. Still some issues though (see comments), and I was not impressed last time I looked (a couple months ago).
Anyway, my point was people hated it because it had real problems. Some people still dislike it because it had (and still exhibits) real problems, myself included. It's not just because it's from Microsoft.
 
Last edited:

Mode13

Gawd
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
795
These conversations always go the same way. Games, year of the linux desktop, hard to use.

Maybe if game developers would stop using the proprietary windows graphics API directX, Linux gaming would take off. We resisted dx in the 90s but now we're monopolized by it. It hurt Mac gaming years ago too.

Linux is not hard to use anymore, my senior citizen mother uses ubuntu with cinnamon now. Browsing and libreoffice feels no different from windows. It has a software center to install programs for you. Its so laughable reading people say otherwise.

I still dual boot solely for gaming like many people, and I am thankful that Valve has put resources into building up Linux gaming, but if were really to see Linux gaming competitive, we need more game engines using vulkan (and releasing a linux binary *cough Doom).

It's not the fault of Linux that game developers are all roping themselves into a proprietary graphics API!
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this

BloodyIron

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
3,439
According to VALVe (as outlined here: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/artic...am-continues-to-grow-according-to-valve.13604 )

"The overall percentage still has a lot of ground to make up, but the number of Linux gamers on Steam continues to grow at a similar rate as those playing on Windows. t looks like there might actually be an increase trend in Linux gamers starting from October when we released the new Steam Play [Proton] beta"

From a percentage perspective, Linux hasn't grown.

From an actual numbers perspective, Linux has been growing as fast as Windows, as in new users for STEAM.

But the actual fact is, all of these stats are bunk. There's many scenarios they don't account for, and they lack real statistical fidelity... for example:
  1. Is a person counted once if they have more than one computer?
  2. If a person plays on the same account on Windows on one computer and Linux on another computer, are they counted once? or twice?
  3. If a person used to use Windows, but switched to Linux, do they get counted as Windows or Linux?
  4. Is this based on the OS the user logs in from, or the OS they game on?
  5. Should we be counting accounts, or computers? If a person has 7 computers, 4x are Windows, 2x are Linux, and 1x is OSX, how should that be counted?

The fact remains is these stats are not indicative of market share, because there's so many holes in how they're collected, how they're defined, and the variability in use-cases.

Furthermore, we're fixated on the _percentage_ market share, which will always have to add up to 100%. But STEAM continues to grow, as in new users join STEAM. And since VALVe reports Linux NUMERICAL growth is equal to Windows NUMERICAL growth, this paints a very different picture than just "0.8%".

At the end of the day, this does not change these facets:
  1. There's already THOSUANDS of games you can play on Linux
  2. There's many more coming to Linux every day
  3. Linux has continually grown in user base and game selection, and has not seen any net-reduction in that total # of games playable on Linux, the growth exceeds the reduction

If you don't like LInux, fine. That's your choice. But for those of us who don't like Windows, and aren't interested in Apple stuff either, Linux gives many people a very good alternative. There are many compelling reasons to game on Linux, and that doesn't mean everyone _HAS_ to. It just means you _can_, if you want to.

Me? I game on Linux because it's fun, and I appreciate the many benefits. If you're curious what they are, just ask. :)
 

DukenukemX

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
4,736
That last part is most definitely a conspiracy theory. It will never happen so I would not worry about it.
Keep in mind that Microsoft has the best DRM in terms of protecting games from piracy. Denuvo ain't got shit on what Microsoft has. Of course their DRM is strictly tied to Windows so if Microsoft pushes Xbox + Windows gaming then it would be the end of Steam. Microsoft could also start charging developers to use their DirectX but free of charge if developers put their games on their store. Like say if there's a DX13 with proper Ray-Tracing, Microsoft could charge a license fee to use that . For consumers it means better integration with Windows and Xbox.

As far as Microsoft is concerned Valve is just another game developer who hasn't made a game in many years. For the most part Xbox is still a bigger brand name than Steam. All it takes for Microsoft to shut down Steam, Origin, and etc is to flex some muscle. We'll all hate them but that doesn't stop people from buying into it.

Flat out, Linux doesn't have a decent gaming or a decent market share because it is hard to use. Sure, there have been improvements in the basic UI and usability, but there is ALWAYS something that has to be done from the command line, and that is EXACTLY what makes it hard to use.
No, just no. If you use Steam then it's super easy to do. To install Steam on Ubuntu or Mint is pretty much the same as Windows if not simplier, because Steam is available in the Software Store as well a Minecraft. Sure if you do more sophisticated things like Wine or Emulators then yea you need a command prompt. If you stick with Steam then no need to use a command prompt.


Windows, is particular, does well because they research and test to find how people behave and how the find things, so they can do it best, and then they take that info and point their people to it. They have a singular leadership that says "this is how we're going to design this gui", and then the people do it. Windows is consistent and it is obvious, and that is why people use it.
You mean like Windows 8 right? :rolleyes:

It will NEVER work.
Yea it's so bad that Microsoft is integrating Linux into Windows.
 

ChadD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
4,588
  1. If a person plays on the same account on Windows on one computer and Linux on another computer, are they counted once? or twice?
  2. If a person used to use Windows, but switched to Linux, do they get counted as Windows or Linux?
  3. Is this based on the OS the user logs in from, or the OS they game on?
  4. Should we be counting accounts, or computers? If a person has 7 computers, 4x are Windows, 2x are Linux, and 1x is OSX, how should that be counted?
Your second point is a big one.

I swear I have never seen a steam survey pop up while I'm on Linux. My wife has a windows box around, when I'm at her place I will sometimes use her windows machine which I have few of my steam games on. I swear it seems that machine pops up a survey every month. lol
 

BloodyIron

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
3,439
Yeah man, the STEAM survey frequency is very confusing! D:

Your second point is a big one.

I swear I have never seen a steam survey pop up while I'm on Linux. My wife has a windows box around, when I'm at her place I will sometimes use her windows machine which I have few of my steam games on. I swear it seems that machine pops up a survey every month. lol
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
11,853
Your second point is a big one.

I swear I have never seen a steam survey pop up while I'm on Linux. My wife has a windows box around, when I'm at her place I will sometimes use her windows machine which I have few of my steam games on. I swear it seems that machine pops up a survey every month. lol
I have not had a survey come up in years, that I can recall, on multiple computers, almost all using Windows.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this

ChadD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
4,588
I have not had a survey come up in years, that I can recall, on multiple computers, almost all using Windows.
It could just be one of those things. Not like my experience is enough data to say its a conspiracy. lol ;)
Just agree with BIrons point... I'm also not sure how reliable the steam usage numbers really are. If I filled out those things when they popped up I guess I would have been counted for sure as a windows user. Which is simply not true... I play a few hours a month on windows on my wifes 5 year old email box. (it still runs a few old titles well enough to kill some time)
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
974
Well you are pointing out one sore spot with lots of Linux people. Gaming distros are so terrible.

Its not because gaming on Linux is bad... its just what they meant by gaming distro is not what the average Windows Gamer would think.

Let me guess you tried Fedoras gaming spin right .... Man I hate those guys sometimes. That spin uses 100% open source... and by gaming spin they mean they include a ton of open source games. There are some good open source games don't get me wrong... but that spin doesn't help you play AAA Linux games never mind AAA windows games.

In general... if your new to Linux stay way from any specialized spins.
Thanks for the reply.I see your busy in this thread so I will keep it short.
Well here are the Gaming Distro's I tried and I am fine with Windows 10 and always will be over any Linux I have tried in the past 20 years.


Recent Linux installs

1.Ubuntu GamePack think 16.04 may be wrong it has been a month or two-dual boot Windows 10
2.SteamOS was ok somewhat-dual boot Windows 10
3.Linux Mint 19 full linux install no dual boot
 

jeffj7

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
104
recently tried gaming on linux again, while it still has some issues its head and shoulders above what it was before valve got involved.
 

EzdineG

n00b
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
22
I'd just like to chime in and say that after trying to switch to Linux at least a dozen times over the last ten years or so, I'd always come back to Windows. Something never worked, a game I liked wouldn't run, or the UI's were just so alien that I couldn't wrap my head around them. Linux was typically relegated to a secondary entry on my boot loader that would seldom find any use.

About two months ago I upgraded my PC to an i7-9700K from a 4770K, and decided to move over cold turkey to Ubuntu 18.10. Having dedicated enough time to actually learn the intricacies of Gnome, I've found that most of the tools I used for development can be found/accomplished natively, The system feels light, fast, and I have a workflow where I've had to make no compromises. There's a great feeling in looking down at the tower and not seeing the hard drive light flashing like mad when the machine is idle.

As for gaming, I'm more of a strategy type and with the Total War, Civilization, and Paradox titles available natively I have everything I need. Only issues I've had with Proton are with anti-cheat enforcing software. I've even found open source software to control my Corsair keyboard, mouse and headset.

--- TLDR ---
I've tried Linux in the past and always returned to Windows. Went cold turkey after a recent hardware upgrade and found it worthy. YMMV.
 

jeffj7

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
104
I enjoy gaming on Linux. I enjoy gaming on my Windows boxes too.

Beats the DOS days with Qemm and a 386dx 40. Omg, you had to know syntax in a non GUI interface.....Oh noes.....
Even in Win 10 I still accomplish things in the command prompt.

People grumble about change, embrace the options and choose what is useful for you. That's my take on it. All OS's have flaws. It's finding the right one, whether MS or Linux or some other alternative, that provides what you need. Bitching about, "Oh it'll never come to be, this OS is the only one" is ridiculous and small minded.
Dont forget juggly irq jumpers and getting the software to work with the changes
 

PantherBlitz

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
421
For linux to really go mainstream... that death lock MS has on OEMs needs to be broken.
If the public wanted Linux the OEMs would most certainly comply.
However, users want what they are accustomed to, and has the best compatibility with what they already have. Until human nature changes or MS totally implodes Linux will always have at best 5% market share.
 

jeffj7

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
104
If the public wanted Linux the OEMs would most certainly comply.
However, users want what they are accustomed to, and has the best compatibility with what they already have. Until human nature changes or MS totally implodes Linux will always have at best 5% market share.
Also to be main steam, its going to need to have less reliance on the command line to get things done.
 
Top