Linux GameCD's

[Tweakin]

So I recently started playing with what are called GameCD's, basically it's like a LiveCD (Knoppix, Gnoppix, Mandrake Move, etc) but instead of booting into a nice usable desktop it boots up into a game (like Americas Army or ut2004). Basically, it gives your pc a console feel.

The idea of being able to bring my favorite game around with me is kinda sweet. Going over to my ma's for a holiday? Well, instead of sitting around and talking religion or something I could game a little on her PC without having to download/install some huge game

So far the only ones I have been able to dig up are from Gentoo and little info is available for them. Has anyone else heard of this or seen other distro's making them? Any links to info would be awesome.

 

[corran_horn314]

Kind of a cool idea, but I'm not sure how much I'd use them. When I get my next computer I'll probably dual boot with XP like my laptop is now. I'd be interesting in reading more about them though...

 

[Nazo]

They used to do this WAY back in the old DOS days when *nix was only thought of by the extreme geeks as being more than a business os. You'd pop in a floppy disk and boot up the system and it went right into the game or a list of games which you could select one of. The reason this kind of faded out somewhat is that it's a real pain in the rear end to get proper support for the wide range of hardware now utilized by even the simplest games. Back then it was just a matter of PC speaker if any sound, standard cga or ega and a few vga graphics (this is before they stopped doing that) and so on down the line like that. Basically if you had a TRULY 100% IBM compatible, they worked for you. My point is that now it's no longer so simple. Probably not TOO much of a problem most of the time, just that it can be a real pain in the rear to autodetect things often enough. For example, on my grandmother's computer, so far only MandrakeMove seems to be able to use her mouse at all (not just autodetect, I can't even seem to manually load a mouse driver on the others either.) Soundcards aren't TOO bad I suppose these days, though just a couple of years or so ago it was a royal pain to get anything that wasn't mainstream working and a few that were. Then there's the video thing. That can REALLY be a pain sometimes, especially with ATI refusing to give tolerable support (despite their claims to the contrary, I say the facts speak for themselves.) That's all my point is really. In fact, I do suppose that it's quite possible, merely it would be such a pain I can see why some might not want to do this. Plus you'll have to save all that info somewhere. Even if you use removeable media like flashdrives it can be a real pain since you can hardly save everything... (Well, MOST of us have small drives/cards, though I'll admit that I've seen 4GB CF cards out there for the rich enough, so just stick one of those in a memory card reader and you have more space than you could reasonably need in such a thing.) d-: Anyway, it would be a HUGE pain to make such a thing and get it working in a large enough number of machines. Basically, what it comes down to, is the fact that most of the people who want a console feel that badly will just buy a console. Usually when you place a PC game you expect it to work like a PC, complete with being installed on your harddrive and all. BTW, are you talking literally CDs, or do you mean DVDs as well? Because it seems like you'd run into severe space issues without some rather painful downsampling of those textures, music, and so on.

 

[Tweakin]

They used to do this WAY back in the old DOS days when *nix was only thought of by the extreme geeks as being more than a business os. You'd pop in a floppy disk and boot up the system and it went right into the game or a list of games which you could select one of. The reason this kind of faded out somewhat is that it's a real pain in the rear end to get proper support for the wide range of hardware now utilized by even the simplest games. Back then it was just a matter of PC speaker if any sound, standard cga or ega and a few vga graphics (this is before they stopped doing that) and so on down the line like that. Basically if you had a TRULY 100% IBM compatible, they worked for you. My point is that now it's no longer so simple. Probably not TOO much of a problem most of the time, just that it can be a real pain in the rear to autodetect things often enough. For example, on my grandmother's computer, so far only MandrakeMove seems to be able to use her mouse at all (not just autodetect, I can't even seem to manually load a mouse driver on the others either.) Soundcards aren't TOO bad I suppose these days, though just a couple of years or so ago it was a royal pain to get anything that wasn't mainstream working and a few that were. Then there's the video thing. That can REALLY be a pain sometimes, especially with ATI refusing to give tolerable support (despite their claims to the contrary, I say the facts speak for themselves.) That's all my point is really. In fact, I do suppose that it's quite possible, merely it would be such a pain I can see why some might not want to do this. Plus you'll have to save all that info somewhere. Even if you use removeable media like flashdrives it can be a real pain since you can hardly save everything... (Well, MOST of us have small drives/cards, though I'll admit that I've seen 4GB CF cards out there for the rich enough, so just stick one of those in a memory card reader and you have more space than you could reasonably need in such a thing.) d-: Anyway, it would be a HUGE pain to make such a thing and get it working in a large enough number of machines. Basically, what it comes down to, is the fact that most of the people who want a console feel that badly will just buy a console. Usually when you place a PC game you expect it to work like a PC, complete with being installed on your harddrive and all. BTW, are you talking literally CDs, or do you mean DVDs as well? Because it seems like you'd run into severe space issues without some rather painful downsampling of those textures, music, and so on.

I am sure they will be made for CD and DVD-ROM media (though the only ones I have found are for CD). DVD being used for larger games, like you mention, that need a bit more room. However, as I wouldnt expect to play any modern game on any less then 512mb of ram, nor would I expect to play a gamecd on any less then 512mb of ram.

I think you are looking a bit too far into the past for examples, these modern gamecd's are nothing like what you are talking about from the old days. These are basically just LiveCD's (configured-for-compatability-kernels, required software, etc) that include a game rather then a massive WM/DE and a ton of desktop software.

Hardware detection seems to work just like any LiveCD, so basically anything linux compatable will work. I have taken Knoppix to places like Best Buy and booted it on any number of their computers to check compatability and have rarely stumbled on any problems. I would guess that of the 50+ computers I have booted Knoppix on, the current GameCD I have (a gentoo game cd of ut2004 demo) would play on all of them.

I would use a GameCD just like a LiveCD really, it would be a way to show people gaming works on linux without having to be at my house, which has 2 boxes running linux that are capable of some intense gaming. You can make a pretty convincing argument for free and open source software when you travel around with a LiveCD with a working desktop and a GameCD with a working, popular, game. However, you would also be making a pretty convincing argument of how insanely geeky you are

So it just seems sort of cool to me.

 

[Nazo]

No, I understood just fine. I'm merely pointing out that hardware can be such a pain that on the one hand I can see why linux is practically the only hope for such a thing and, on the other, I can still see why it may still not be reliable enough for such a thing to catch on. Plus it's just a pain to set up such a thing which translates to more costs and that means that a company would have to believe without a shadow of a doubt that it could actually sell decently in most cases -- with the exception of a few really brave ones just perhaps. That's all I'm saying. Such a thing IS possible, especially if real support were thrown behind the idea of getting some tolerable autodetections at last (the no mouse thing still drives me crazy) just really hard and probably not going to catch on. Heck, theoretically something like that could technically be adapted to even work on an XBox making it possible to buy a game that runs in both systems properly (which I'm sure some people would not exactly mind very much...)

 

[Tweakin]

No, I understood just fine. I'm merely pointing out that hardware can be such a pain that on the one hand I can see why linux is practically the only hope for such a thing and, on the other, I can still see why it may still not be reliable enough for such a thing to catch on. Plus it's just a pain to set up such a thing which translates to more costs and that means that a company would have to believe without a shadow of a doubt that it could actually sell decently in most cases -- with the exception of a few really brave ones just perhaps. That's all I'm saying. Such a thing IS possible, especially if real support were thrown behind the idea of getting some tolerable autodetections at last (the no mouse thing still drives me crazy) just really hard and probably not going to catch on.

Well, with the games I have seen, it is more of a 'gamer thing'. What this means is that hardware can be some what assumed. Just like EA releases something with minimum requirements, so would a GameCD.

The money issue is not present, so far the only game cd's I have seen are of free games, or demos of commercial games. The full commercial games could work too, like the GameCD boots up, asks for the actual game cd's, you provide your serial number, and you are good to go.

Heck, theoretically something like that could technically be adapted to even work on an XBox making it possible to buy a game that runs in both systems properly (which I'm sure some people would not exactly mind very much...)

Yeah I had thought about this too, and I would guess it is already possible since an Xbox can be modded to run linux- but who knows.

 

[Teitoku]

Heck, theoretically something like that could technically be adapted to even work on an XBox making it possible to buy a game that runs in both systems properly (which I'm sure some people would not exactly mind very much...)

Sure, if you want to play a terrible slow ugly game. There's no hardware acceleration for xbox linux.

 

[Nazo]

Ouch, are you serious? My dad was wanting to do something or other that involved that whole linux thing and he was asking me about it, but I must admit that I have no newer system than a dreamcast, so I have absolutely 0 experience with an XBox (well, I played my dad's once or twice at the most. I know I tried halo and ended up hating every second of it because it's just massively stupid to play an FPS with an analog stick to aim. Then again, I suppose I'm a little spoiled by this mouse.) d-:

But, tweakin, the thing with the money is that it costs a business to do this sort of thing. NOT to actually get the linux, but, they must pay someone to build the disc for them. That person must spend rather a lot of time trying his best to make it as universal as possible. And, then, they have to test it on a bunch of stuff, which is still probably going to cost them. Oh, and no you can't just stamp a requirements thing on there. You see, the problem with linux isn't minimal requirements. Heck, try hard enough and you can get it running on a 386. You can't stamp on the box "requires that you have a nForce 2 chipset with a soundblaster audigy and a nVidia Geforce FX series card" for example. It's just unreasonable to expect people to try to match a limited range of stuff. Not only that, but, the things that linux has troubles with are so seemingly random that it's nearly impossible to say just what it won't work with in the limited space of a box.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget the problems with if you have an ATI based card. That's maybe roughly half the major gaming people out there (eg the target audience.) The linuxcds would suck for those people.

 

[Tweakin]

But, tweakin, the thing with the money is that it costs a business to do this sort of thing. NOT to actually get the linux, but, they must pay someone to build the disc for them. That person must spend rather a lot of time trying his best to make it as universal as possible. And, then, they have to test it on a bunch of stuff, which is still probably going to cost them. Oh, and no you can't just stamp a requirements thing on there. You see, the problem with linux isn't minimal requirements. Heck, try hard enough and you can get it running on a 386. You can't stamp on the box "requires that you have a nForce 2 chipset with a soundblaster audigy and a nVidia Geforce FX series card" for example. It's just unreasonable to expect people to try to match a limited range of stuff. Not only that, but, the things that linux has troubles with are so seemingly random that it's nearly impossible to say just what it won't work with in the limited space of a box.

Nazo I appreciate your replies, and maybe I am not posting clearly enough, but you are 100% missing the point

The GameCD's are not built by a game developer (ie ID Studios) they are built by people in the community, like a Knoppix disc (the Knoppix distro). They have nothing to do with the game studio other then that they are actually using their game. If it's a commercial game, then the end user has to actually have the game discs and a working serial number to be able to play it (although the ones I have tried are of free games, so that isn't even an issue). Thats the end of it. So, money is not an issue by any means, no one is trying to make money, no one is losing money. Not everything is about money

Consider a GameCD exactly as a LiveCD, except that the GameCD boots into a game rather then KDE, Gnome, Xfce, etc. Thus, the hardware support is there, there is no hardware support issues other then those of which linux has in general (ATI drivers, no drivers for some weird peice of hardware, etc). Of course there will be a buggy driver, or lack of hardware support, but htats a problem with linux... and plenty of people (myself included) game on linux regardless of that fact.

@Teitoku, that would be a problem then Like Nazo, I have never tried linux with an Xbox, seems pretty pointless to me.