Linux distro that isn't impossible to use?

[general]

I installed CentOS last week and I'm now seeing why Linux has never really grown to its potential. It's pretty much impossible to use. I spent the better part of a day just trying to get MPlayer to install and it still won't. The Gnome UI is supposed to be the best for the system, but even the keyboard options make no sense (You have a choice of either having eaaaaaachhh key repeat itself when you hit a key for more than a split second or by turning this off, you can't backspace more than one spot without beating the key many many times). I have tried to install the nVidia driver, but it makes no sense. It seems that there are dozens of ways that each of the various distributions update themselves. Why hasn't the community come together to push standards to control things like this? If networking were done this way, each and every network vendor would be using proprietary protocols. Why hasn't linux progressed beyond this and is there a distro that will:

Allow simple updates to the operating system and software
Not cause errors due to missing packages
Install things like drivers simply and easily when a driver file is downloaded
Have a UI that is comparable to MS or Apple

 

[Whatsisname]

use debian or ubuntu, and quit whining. Just because you're not familiar with how it works yet doesnt mean that linux is flawed.

I installed CentOS last week and I'm now seeing why Linux has never really grown to its potential. It's pretty much impossible to use. I spent the better part of a day just trying to get MPlayer to install and it still won't. The Gnome UI is supposed to be the best for the system, but even the keyboard options make no sense (You have a choice of either having eaaaaaachhh key repeat itself when you hit a key for more than a split second or by turning this off, you can't backspace more than one spot without beating the key many many times). I have tried to install the nVidia driver, but it makes no sense. It seems that there are dozens of ways that each of the various distributions update themselves. Why hasn't the community come together to push standards to control things like this? If networking were done this way, each and every network vendor would be using proprietary protocols. Why hasn't linux progressed beyond this and is there a distro that will:

Allow simple updates to the operating system and software
Not cause errors due to missing packages
Install things like drivers simply and easily when a driver file is downloaded
Have a UI that is comparable to MS or Apple

 

[GML3G0]

Frugalware / Ubuntu

Frugalware is easier to set up since almost everything you need is in the standard repository.

If you don't like it or can't handle it, move on. Linux isn't for you.

 

[jpmkm]

To be honest, most of your problems just sound like user error/misunderstanding/ignorance. No distribution is impossible to use.

I'd give ubuntu a shot. Ubuntu pretty much takes care of your final four points(except maybe your UI point. I don't know what exactly you mean by "comparable" in this sense). You can use apt to install mplayer and the nvidia drivers. Apt takes care of package dependencies. Ubuntu can download and install updates automatically(for all the software you've installed through apt; not just operating system-related updates).

Networking and linux are two entirely different beasts as far as standards are concerned. With networking, a few big companies can pretty much get together and design a standard, and it will then essentially become the standard for the industry. It makes sense for all the little guys to produce equipment that interoperates with the big guys' equipment, so the standard takes. With open source software development, though, there really aren't big guys and small guys(there are, but for this discussion it's really not relevant). There's really no reason for one distribution to adopt the workings of another. For one thing, that kinda kills the point of having different distributions. And there will always be different distributions as long as people have different opinions.

With that being said, there are indeed pretty "standard" ways of doing all the things you had problems with.

For future reference, we are generally more willing to help if you don't come in and complain about what you are trying to get help with. Your post comes off as being a bit trollish.

 

[finalgt]

You guys have to try and remember what it was like to learn something new. I'm in the final throes of attempting to install Ubuntu on my laptop again (XGL looks entirely too cool...) and I can't get the widescreen resolution on my laptop, I don't know what sort of black magic dictates the function of my wireless card, and the only time the system tells me what my battery life is is when it's about to go out completely. Plus, Google is only so helpful when every hit you find is like 3 pages of procedures pertaining to foreign commands and directory structures. So cut him some slack, he's actually pretty decent compared to what I was like the last time I tried a Linux distribution (which was Gentoo...why people would recommend that to a total Linux noob is beyond me, but sadism is probably involved) the result was like 2 pages of expletives, haha.

 

[tom61]

Why hasn't the community come together to push standards to control things like this?

Very good question. The best answer I can come up with is that you end up with something like FreeBSD, where the OS/distro doesn't take in new features as fast. FreeBSD is very good mind you, but if it hadn't branched and then merged back together a couple of times it wouldn't be where it is today.

Linux has dozens of branches, each with there own redememing values. Unfortunately, you grabbed one designed for enterprises (aka big businesses), and is meant to be handled by experienced Linux/Unix administrators, not new users.

If it wasn't for the willy-nilly branches you wouldn't have: Linux for systems other than those running x86 processors (Intel/AMD), Knoppix, a good portion of the auto-detection/PNP, and many more features.

 

[moetop]

Linux aint Tinkertoy's (Typically easy), but it has come a long way from where it was 10-12 years ago. I remember setting the SYNC rates for my monitor by hand to get X windows to run.

"Simple updates to system software." Well Cent OS has that. Almost just like the windows updates. Flashes in system tray saying there are updates to download, and it's not just for the OS it's for all the packages you have installed so in that fact it's better.

"Not cause errors due to missing packages." Just install everything. 4 gig really is not that much space now a days and it's not like it's actually running it all at the same time. Yes even then sometimes it can be a little frustrating, but so can Windows. i.e. what version of DX are you running? what version of .net are you running? What version of Java are you running? (don't get me started about Java)

"Install things like drivers simply and easily when a driver file is downloaded." Ya once in a while this can be a pain. The installation of my RAID 5 card drivers was easy, it was getting the drive to mount because the drivers were loaded after and not in the kernel that was the bigger issue.

"Have a UI that is comparable to MS or Apple." Can you better explain what's missing? I don’t see that big a difference. You need to look at the whole Linux screen shot thread and ask some more questions.

All that being said Linux is a bit more difficult that Windows. Some of that in your case is because you have not spent as much time in the environment. How many years have you been using Windows? How many Linux? Some is just a combination of other factors (stupid amount of distributions, not as good support from corporations (drivers), to many people involved to get a consensus on 1 good way to do a thing and if they ever do somebody will make their own fork and your back to multiple methods to accomplish the same thing (These are both a +'s and -'s))

I'm running CentOS on one of my boxes now. It's my main server box. I think I choose KDE, but like other people have said it's a server OS. Don’t expect to have pretty flashy lights out of the box. I would choose/try another distribution. Or better yet, try a few LIVE CD's to see if you like them beforehand.

I installed CentOS last week and I'm now seeing why Linux has never really grown to its potential. It's pretty much impossible to use. I spent the better part of a day just trying to get MPlayer to install and it still won't. The Gnome UI is supposed to be the best for the system, but even the keyboard options make no sense (You have a choice of either having eaaaaaachhh key repeat itself when you hit a key for more than a split second or by turning this off, you can't backspace more than one spot without beating the key many many times). I have tried to install the nVidia driver, but it makes no sense. It seems that there are dozens of ways that each of the various distributions update themselves. Why hasn't the community come together to push standards to control things like this? If networking were done this way, each and every network vendor would be using proprietary protocols. Why hasn't linux progressed beyond this and is there a distro that will:

Allow simple updates to the operating system and software
Not cause errors due to missing packages
Install things like drivers simply and easily when a driver file is downloaded
Have a UI that is comparable to MS or Apple

 

[mwarps]

I installed CentOS last week and I'm now seeing why Linux has never really grown to its potential. It's pretty much impossible to use. I spent the better part of a day just trying to get MPlayer to install and it still won't. The Gnome UI is supposed to be the best for the system, but even the keyboard options make no sense (You have a choice of either having eaaaaaachhh key repeat itself when you hit a key for more than a split second or by turning this off, you can't backspace more than one spot without beating the key many many times). I have tried to install the nVidia driver, but it makes no sense. It seems that there are dozens of ways that each of the various distributions update themselves. Why hasn't the community come together to push standards to control things like this? If networking were done this way, each and every network vendor would be using proprietary protocols. Why hasn't linux progressed beyond this and is there a distro that will:

Allow simple updates to the operating system and software
Not cause errors due to missing packages
Install things like drivers simply and easily when a driver file is downloaded
Have a UI that is comparable to MS or Apple

If you want an Apple or Microsoft product, use one.

Linux is not for the faint of heart, lazy, ignorant or inept.

Read the docs, do what needs to be done. If you can't do as the docs say, you most likely shouldn't bother. If you can make an honest attempt and still get hosed, then ask.

 

[sc3252]

I installed CentOS last week and I'm now seeing why Linux has never really grown to its potential. It's pretty much impossible to use. I spent the better part of a day just trying to get MPlayer to install and it still won't. The Gnome UI is supposed to be the best for the system, but even the keyboard options make no sense (You have a choice of either having eaaaaaachhh key repeat itself when you hit a key for more than a split second or by turning this off, you can't backspace more than one spot without beating the key many many times). I have tried to install the nVidia driver, but it makes no sense. It seems that there are dozens of ways that each of the various distributions update themselves. Why hasn't the community come together to push standards to control things like this? If networking were done this way, each and every network vendor would be using proprietary protocols. Why hasn't linux progressed beyond this and is there a distro that will:

Allow simple updates to the operating system and software
Not cause errors due to missing packages
Install things like drivers simply and easily when a driver file is downloaded
Have a UI that is comparable to MS or Apple

This guy is a joke! The only reason he came here was not for help, but to tell us that we use a crapy os because he cant figure out how to use it. I am not even going to recomend a different distro like everyone else. You obviously dont care to use linux, what you wanted was a free windows.

 

[kumquat]

His complaints are *very* valid.

Linux still has a long way to go before becoming a viable desktop operating system for the average user.

It seems like we've been saying "almost there" for 6+ years and yet Windows and OS X are still far ahead of all Linux distros.

Instead of dismissing complaints like this, the developer community needs to hear more of them to make good progress in the usability department.

 

[Langford]

Lets see if the trend this thread is following can be broken.

For someone just getting started with Linux, just about the easiest options going today are Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and SuSE. They all have a nice default installers, good hardware detection for supported devices, nice guis, and still behave as well if not better than other distros.
http://www.kubuntu.org/
http://www.ubuntu.com/
http://opensuse.org

 

[Grathrax]

Something I think the community should do is look at Darwin, the underlying BSD that OS X is built on. This would allow them to use a lot of what makes Mac OS X stable.

But, as far as learning linux goes, I have to say along with others that it does frustrate the hell out of me when someone comes in saying "I want to learn linux" and people start throwing tough distros and "server oriented" distros at them. Yes, maybe they want to build a file server for their home LAN, but wouldnt they just be fine getting an easier distro and running Samba in it?

I would recommend Fedora Core 5 because you can use the GUI if the terminal makes you feel over your head, and RPMs are a lot easier to use that tar or tarballs. (but make sure you learn those ones as well) Fedora has the capability and ease to make it do whatever you need it to, GREAT support and drivers (compared to many distros) as well as a large and helpful community. (fedoraforum.org)

 

[jpmkm]

Instead of dismissing complaints like this, the developer community needs to hear more of them to make good progress in the usability department.

The development community needs to listen civil, sensible suggestions, not whining rants like the OP posted. Complaints like that really don't help the designers or the developers. To start with - he tried all day to get mplayer installed and he couldn't. How is that helpful to a developer? Why should developers waste their time listening to someone who couldn't figure that out? Many distributions install mplayer by default, and many distributions can install it with a single command, often times with a gui frontend. Then he complains that installing the nvidia driver "makes no sense". Again, why should a dev waste his time listening to this? What is he going to do? Make the drivers make more sense? That's pretty subjective.

I really don't think his complaints were valid from a "hey let's use this to make the linux world better" perspective. He was just ranting that he couldn't figure a few things out. Even in a perfectly designed system there will always be people who can't figure things out. And his last four points really aren't valid at all. Linux passed that mark years ago.

 

[Tweakin]

Lets see if the trend this thread is following can be broken.

For someone just getting started with Linux, just about the easiest options going today are Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and SuSE. They all have a nice default installers, good hardware detection for supported devices, nice guis, and still behave as well if not better than other distros.
http://www.kubuntu.org/
http://www.ubuntu.com/
http://opensuse.org

OP: Read the above then read it again. A lot of your time could have been saved from reading a few of the top distro's websites. CentOS quite clearly states it is an enterprise class operating system (which, unless you are a system administrator looking to deploy a large workstation and server layout, you probably don't want. Most distro's tend to explain in some detail what their intent is and would have lead to a better choice in distro.

No doubt Linux has its issues and is not for everyone. Choice is either the benefit or the plague of Linux depending upon the person using it. Standards exist, but their is of course a choice of standards

 

[kumquat]

The development community needs to listen civil, sensible suggestions, not whining rants like the OP posted. Complaints like that really don't help the designers or the developers. To start with - he tried all day to get mplayer installed and he couldn't. How is that helpful to a developer? Why should developers waste their time listening to someone who couldn't figure that out? Many distributions install mplayer by default, and many distributions can install it with a single command, often times with a gui frontend. Then he complains that installing the nvidia driver "makes no sense". Again, why should a dev waste his time listening to this? What is he going to do? Make the drivers make more sense? That's pretty subjective.

I really don't think his complaints were valid from a "hey let's use this to make the linux world better" perspective. He was just ranting that he couldn't figure a few things out. Even in a perfectly designed system there will always be people who can't figure things out. And his last four points really aren't valid at all. Linux passed that mark years ago.

The attitude is the problem. Instead of "well, what types of troubles were you having?" the community never misses an opportunity to say "RTFM" or "Linux isn't for you." It happens all the time.

When you can't go to openoffice.org and download a file you can double click to install Open Office, for crying out loud, then something is terribly wrong. You head to that site and you get a gzipped tar file.

MPlayer? How about this:
"For a complete MPlayer installation you will need sources, a set of codecs, a set of fonts for the onscreen display (OSD) and a skin if you want a graphical user interface."

Give me a break. Sure, you and I can figure this stuff out, but we are the extreme minority.

It's the attitude that "nothing is wrong but the user" that is the problem here. There is a vast gulf of difference between user-friendliness in terms of downloading programs and installing updates on Windows XP versus *any* Linux distro.

 

[jpmkm]

The attitude is the problem. Instead of "well, what types of troubles were you having?" the community never misses an opportunity to say "RTFM" or "Linux isn't for you." It happens all the time.

If you read my previous post you'll see I was very civil and helpful and suggested that he ask for help more civilly the next time. I think the attitude of the OP is a larger issue than the attitudes of any of those who responded.

When you can't go to openoffice.org and download a file you can double click to install Open Office, for crying out loud, then something is terribly wrong. You head to that site and you get a gzipped tar file.

Why even go to the OO website? Just search for it in your package manager and click install. Besides, what exactly is wrong with downloading a tarball? Gunzip and untar it and you have an installer. I really don't see how that is different from downloading a zip file in windows. Do you feel that zip files are hindering the adoption of windows?

MPlayer? How about this:
"For a complete MPlayer installation you will need sources, a set of codecs, a set of fonts for the onscreen display (OSD) and a skin if you want a graphical user interface."

Where did you get this quote? I don't know what your point is. You don't need mplayer sources to install mplayer. I've never had to install additional fonts for OSD. If you just install something like kmplayer or gmplayer using your package manager, it'll pretty much pull in everything you need.

Give me a break. Sure, you and I can figure this stuff out, but we are the extreme minority.

The people who can install any operating system are in the extreme minority. For everything that someone doesn't understand in linux I can point to something that someone doesn't understand in windows. The reason computer repair companies stay in business is because people can't figure things out. I really don't understand the notion that linux sucks unless it can be installed and used by anyone with no problems at all and no outside help at all. That is simply absurd.

It's the attitude that "nothing is wrong but the user" that is the problem here. There is a vast gulf of difference between user-friendliness in terms of downloading programs and installing updates on Windows XP versus *any* Linux distro.

As far as updates go, ubuntu downloads them automatically and notifies you in the system tray when it is ready to install them. Do you really consider that to be a "vast gulf of difference" with respect to windows? Oh yeah, and ubuntu updates all the software on your system(that you installed through the package manager), not just OS stuff. I really don't see how installing software in ubuntu is anything but easy. Most of the software that any home user will need is in synaptic. Just a couple clicks and you've installed your software. How is that more difficult than going to a website, downloading an installer, and running it? This isn't 1995 anymore.

And, as I mentioned earlier, this really is largely a case of the user just not knowing what he was doing. Please tell me how the developers could make things better so that the OP wouldn't experience the problems he had. And when you consider your answer, please stop ignoring things like modern package managers.

 

[jimmyb]

The attitude is the problem. Instead of "well, what types of troubles were you having?" the community never misses an opportunity to say "RTFM" or "Linux isn't for you." It happens all the time.

I personally don't see this as a problem at all. It actually serves as a nice filter that keeps out people who aren't going to put in a genuine effort to learn something themselves. I find the community incredibly helpful, so long as you approach them sensibly.

I'm not at all concerned with the widespread adoption of Linux. I enjoy using it immensely, but I don't care if other people use it.

 

[moetop]

I personally don't see this as a problem at all. It actually serves as a nice filter that keeps out people who aren't going to put in a genuine effort to learn something themselves. I find the community incredibly helpful, so long as you approach them sensibly.

I'm not at all concerned with the widespread adoption of Linux. I enjoy using it immensely, but I don't care if other people use it.

I'm not concerned with the widespread adoption either, but there is no reason to act like an even bigger ass giving the people who do want to spread it's adoption a bad image. Those are the people who contribute and make it what it is (Great).

Last time I checked there were no developers trying to make Linux harder to use.

 

[Grathrax]

I personally don't see this as a problem at all. It actually serves as a nice filter that keeps out people who aren't going to put in a genuine effort to learn something themselves. I find the community incredibly helpful, so long as you approach them sensibly.

I think its incredibly pretensious to get up and say that you want people "to learn for themselves" like they are some sort of student and you are the teacher who is tired of answering their questions. I see the value of the "..but if you teach a man to fish..." approach, but there is NOTHING I have hated more over the years than when I have had computer troubles or get stuck in a game or something only to have someone get on a high horse and tell me to figure it out myself.

 

[jimmyb]

My perspective is that I am not their teacher. A good teacher will attempt to educate even the most unpleasant of students; I on the other hand, will not.

...I am clearly not fit to be teaching anyone.

I must admit, I'm not fond of people replying "RTFM" to these sorts of posts. I'd prefer if people just didn't reply altogether. If an OP isn't prepared to be cordial, let alone do some independent problem solving, then they should just be ignored.

 

[Wolf-R1]

I installed CentOS last week and I'm now seeing why Linux has never really grown to its potential. It's pretty much impossible to use. I spent the better part of a day just trying to get MPlayer to install and it still won't. The Gnome UI is supposed to be the best for the system, but even the keyboard options make no sense (You have a choice of either having eaaaaaachhh key repeat itself when you hit a key for more than a split second or by turning this off, you can't backspace more than one spot without beating the key many many times). I have tried to install the nVidia driver, but it makes no sense. It seems that there are dozens of ways that each of the various distributions update themselves. Why hasn't the community come together to push standards to control things like this? If networking were done this way, each and every network vendor would be using proprietary protocols. Why hasn't linux progressed beyond this and is there a distro that will:

Allow simple updates to the operating system and software
Not cause errors due to missing packages
Install things like drivers simply and easily when a driver file is downloaded
Have a UI that is comparable to MS or Apple

I haven't read any of the thread responses yet so I may be at a disadvantage however...

First off your first choice for a "desktop" OS isn't the best. CentOS is an "Enterprise" class OS. While it does have some of the other bells and whistles of a "Desktop" OS it's not really geared toward it.

Second...most Linux distros have update systems that are pretty easy to use once you dig in and get to know them. Windows is no different. You had to figure some things out at the start. What's supposed to be different about Linux?

Third...Windows will do the same damn thing, error out when a DLL or similar is missing. I've had fresh installs of Windows give me fits right off the bat in the past. This is not limited to Linux.

Your next point sounds like a virus. Install something automatically when it's downloaded? The problem here is that you do not know how to deal with it and so, rather than educate yourself you'd rather bitch about it. Not cool.

Gnome and KDE are two examples of UIs that are very good. I personally prefer KDE but I know that both will do quite a bit more than Windows will do given the right user and customizable software. Then again, Exploder will do a lot given the right software as well.

Stop whining and educate yourself a bit. Uncle Billy isn't there to hold your hand with a Wizard...this means that you have to open up a bit and use your brain.

 

[osalcido]

you want a linux that looks/runs like windows or mac?

why not just use windows or osx?

if you're not a troll, try suse 10.0

its the easiest and prettiest distro i've ever used

 

[osalcido]

I have tried to install the nVidia driver, but it makes no sense. It seems that there are dozens of ways that each of the various distributions update themselves.

So let me guess... you googled "Nvidia driver linux"?
why not "centos install nvidia driver".... dont be a moron

 

[ThreeDee]

there isnt a linux distro out there for desktop usage that is "impossible to use" ..they all work just fine

"Why doesnt this car work!..I got in it and closed the door , but it doesnt go anywhere ..just sits in my driveway ... what a piece of junk!" ..well , you gotta learn how to drive I guess.

I've been a spoon fed windoze user of Billy's most of my pc life , and when I hopped onto the Linux train first go around with Fedora Core 4 ..there was a bit of learning curve at first. But now I am finding that Linux is actually easier and faster than windoze in 90% of the stuff I do, and use it excusively at work and only reason I don't run it on my home computer is because I'm an avid gamer ..


[F]old|[H]ard

 

[kumquat]

there isnt a linux distro out there for desktop usage that is "impossible to use" ..they all work just fine

"Why doesnt this car work!..I got in it and closed the door , but it doesnt go anywhere ..just sits in my driveway ... what a piece of junk!" ..well , you gotta learn how to drive I guess.

I've been a spoon fed windoze user of Billy's most of my pc life , and when I hopped onto the Linux train first go around with Fedora Core 4 ..there was a bit of learning curve at first. But now I am finding that Linux is actually easier and faster than windoze in 90% of the stuff I do, and use it excusively at work and only reason I don't run it on my home computer is because I'm an avid gamer ..


[F]old|[H]ard

I think it's more akin to having someone used to driving an automatic transmission Corolla being given the keys to a 1960 Volkswagen Beetle with manual transmission and no power steering.

Sure, they're both cars, but when someone just wants to be able to get to the store and back, they shouldn't *have* to learn a completely different and significantly more complicated and delicate process when "upgrading" their OS. !!!!!!s scream out left and right that Linux is so much better, even for Mom and Pop, but the fact is that it's just *not* unless you have an expert sysadmin setting up the system and completely securing it from Mom and Pop.. and Mom and Pop never have to install a piece of software themselves.

 

[jpmkm]

I think it's more akin to having someone used to driving an automatic transmission Corolla being given the keys to a 1960 Volkswagen Beetle with manual transmission and no power steering.

Sure, they're both cars, but when someone just wants to be able to get to the store and back, they shouldn't *have* to learn a completely different and significantly more complicated and delicate process when "upgrading" their OS. !!!!!!s scream out left and right that Linux is so much better, even for Mom and Pop, but the fact is that it's just *not* unless you have an expert sysadmin setting up the system and completely securing it from Mom and Pop.. and Mom and Pop never have to install a piece of software themselves.

Your example is a bit off. The following more closely resembles the OP's situation: If a person voluntarily chooses to get into a 1960 beetle with manual transmission and no power steering, then that person shouldn't bitch and complain that the car sucks because he doesn't know how to operate it. He chose to get into it so it is his responsibility to learn how to use it, whether he teaches himself or he seeks outside help.

If a person doesn't want to learn how to use a different operating system, then they don't have to use a different operating system. Why is that so hard to understand? Where is the problem? Some people like automatic transmissions. Some people prefer manuals. People use what they like.

 

[kumquat]

Your example is a bit off. The following more closely resembles the OP's situation: If a person voluntarily chooses to get into a 1960 beetle with manual transmission and no power steering, then that person shouldn't bitch and complain that the car sucks because he doesn't know how to operate it.

But when there are people all over the internet screaming about how you should drop that stupid Corolla and get the Beetle because it's so much better, it's not unreasonable for someone pretty good with Windows or OS X to expect to be able to figure out how to do basic tasks in Linux.

The reality is that the OS is not transparent in the least to the user and even basic functionality is very often hidden in fairly complicated procedures.

 

[osalcido]

But when there are people all over the internet screaming about how you should drop that stupid Corolla and get the Beetle because it's so much better, it's not unreasonable for someone pretty good with Windows or OS X to expect to be able to figure out how to do basic tasks in Linux.

The reality is that the OS is not transparent in the least to the user and even basic functionality is very often hidden in fairly complicated procedures.

have you ever used a linux distro?

if so, what distro

 

[jpmkm]

But when there are people all over the internet screaming about how you should drop that stupid Corolla and get the Beetle because it's so much better, it's not unreasonable for someone pretty good with Windows or OS X to expect to be able to figure out how to do basic tasks in Linux.

The reality is that the OS is not transparent in the least to the user and even basic functionality is very often hidden in fairly complicated procedures.

So is it also not unreasonable to expect corolla drivers to be able to drive a beetle? And since when have people screaming on the internet mattered in the least?

I'm not following what you mean by "basic functionality". Desktop operating systems are never transparent. I don't think anyone really thinks that they should be. And I am assuming you are using the term operating system to refer to the kernel+core utilities+desktop environment, right? Most users will just interact with the desktop environment and not need to worry about the lower levels. But I am indeed intrigued by your belief that basic functionality is hidden in complicated procedures.

 

[jpmkm]

have you ever used a linux distro?

if so, what distro

It's certainly sounding like he hasn't. Or that the last time he used one was in 1995.

 

[ThreeDee]

I think instead of liking linux to an old manual beetle ..it would be more of like jumping into a newer SUV ..nice and safe(r)

...or maybe a Ferrari , but more customizable .. I don't know much about alot of things , but I still managed to learn a little bit of linux and now get things done faster at work ..so I dont know ..call it whatever you want I guess


[F]old|[H]ard

 

[jpmkm]

I think instead of liking linux to an old manual beetle ..it would be more of like jumping into a newer SUV ..nice and safe(r)

The great thing about linux is that it can be either. Or any other car you want it to be.

 

[duby229]

The attitude is the problem. Instead of "well, what types of troubles were you having?" the community never misses an opportunity to say "RTFM" or "Linux isn't for you." It happens all the time.

When you can't go to openoffice.org and download a file you can double click to install Open Office, for crying out loud, then something is terribly wrong. You head to that site and you get a gzipped tar file.

MPlayer? How about this:
"For a complete MPlayer installation you will need sources, a set of codecs, a set of fonts for the onscreen display (OSD) and a skin if you want a graphical user interface."

Give me a break. Sure, you and I can figure this stuff out, but we are the extreme minority.

It's the attitude that "nothing is wrong but the user" that is the problem here. There is a vast gulf of difference between user-friendliness in terms of downloading programs and installing updates on Windows XP versus *any* Linux distro.

hmmm....

All I have to do is "emerge openoffice-bin mplayer"

Then it is done. That is it. No going to any website. No downloading a file. No clicking this or that. Just one simple easy, very close to english command.

And frankly if YOU had read the manual YOU would have known that.

Use Ubuntu? Well in that case it is simply "apt-get install whatever-you-want"

Use Fedora? then it would be more akin to this " yum install whatever-you-want"

It is pretty simple really. All you gotta do is read the manual. If your expecting things to work the same way as they do in windows (which is plainly clear from this post) then your going to be disappointed, and you should keep using windows

 

[osalcido]

with suse its "yast -i mplayer" or "rug install mplayer"
wow so difficult!!
I can see how child geniuses like kumquat are being stumped now!

 

[kumquat]

with suse its "yast -i mplayer" or "rug install mplayer"

It's not difficult for us computer nerds. That's obvious. But telling your mother to open up a console and type in some "yast" or "rug" command with options - and the command depends entirely on which distribution is being used - is ridiculous. Sending an email link to download.com with a big "DOWNLOAD HERE" button and clicking "RUN" is *much* more straightforward than typing some console command in for non-nerds.

As for me, I use OpenBSD (no GUI), Solaris 10 (w/Gnome and CDE), Windows, and OS X regularly. My work environment is mostly Solaris and Windows. A couple of times a year I'll install install a Linux distro at home and play with it for a few weeks (Ubuntu was most recent) hoping it will have become a viable everyman desktop OS. I've been doing this for about eight years now and it still isn't close. I never have much trouble with it, but I can always see why so many other people do.

 

[kumquat]

But I am indeed intrigued by your belief that basic functionality is hidden in complicated procedures.

Opening up a console window and typing in the right command with the right syntax is *way*way*way* beyond clicking the "download me" box on a website and hitting "run" in the mind of the average (even to above average) computer user. These are *valid problems* to widespread Linux adoption.

 

[Langford]

Opening up a console window and typing in the right command with the right syntax is *way*way*way* beyond clicking the "download me" box on a website and hitting "run" in the mind of the average (even to above average) computer user. These are *valid problems* to widespread Linux adoption.

I agree, the gui is easier for most. Thats why Ubuntu and Debain ship with the Symantec Package Manager installed in the menu by default. It makes it easy. Thats also why the gui on Linux and Windows now support ftp instead of forcing people to use the prompt, and a host of other functions. It's not just a Linux thing. Heck, in windows, a lot of the best stuff is in the command prompt. Average people have just gotten used to not knowing how to use it, so it's ignored. Not all distro's of Linux are designed for the average user, thats why there is Ubuntu and SuSE. Linux distros are based on the same code, but that doesn't mean they should be refered to as being identical.

The very core truth at work here, is that the easiest OS for anyone to use, is the one that they already know how to.

 

[jimmyb]

It's not difficult for us computer nerds. That's obvious. But telling your mother to open up a console and type [...]

The original poster is not my mother. My mother would never be so rude. She also has no problem working from a command line, but that's neither here nor there.

Linux cannot be used as casually as Windows can. Particularly if you don't know how to use it (as is the case with the OP). If anyone tells you otherwise they are lying.

 

[KevC]

Ubuntu =)

 

[just2cool]

Actually, I think it's easy to tell them a simple console command like "yast -i mplayer" as shown above than telling them "OK, go to this link, ignore that pop up ad, click download mirror 3, unzip it, click next, next, next, make sure it's being installed in C:\Program Files\whatever, next, wait till it's done, then click finish."

I can understand Linux frustration. Back when I first tried it (in the Mandrake 7.0 days) I didn't like it that much. But as new distros came out (I just recently installed Ubuntu 6.06) Linux eventually grew on me. However, I am still mostly a Windows user.

There's no need to bash Linux. As others have said, if you hate it, then nobody is forcing you to use it.

I mean, look how much you can do with it once you get it running!

Other images:
http://b2k.pnt.net/shots/desktop3d1.jpg
http://b2k.pnt.net/shots/desktop3d2.jpg
http://b2k.pnt.net/shots/desktop3d3.jpg