Let's talk about the Radeon 5830

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You know, the one set at a $229 price point. The one that should essentially be a 4890 with DirectX 11 capability. Maybe a little more juice. The one that keeps getting delayed :mad:

Any new word, or are we still looking at late Feb/early March?
 
I'd much rather have a price drop on the 5850 than a 5830. I'd wager the 5850 will drop down to this supposed 5830 price point when the GTX 470/480 releases.
 
Word goes that they're plentiful but AMD's asked retailers to keep the lid on for some reason. Might be they know something about that upcoming major price drop that will coincide with Fermi.
 
I think the latest rumour was Feb 18 and there were leaked specs somewhere.

Edit:
http://www.techspot.com/news/37894-unannounced-radeon-hd-5830-price-and-specs-revealed.html
Hm, interesting. Confirms suspicions that it's a slightly detuned 5850, in essence. 2/18 seems rather optimistic, though.

I'd much rather have a price drop on the 5850 than a 5830. I'd wager the 5850 will drop down to this supposed 5830 price point when the GTX 470/480 releases.
I think it's silly that the MSRP for the 5850 used to be $259, but now pretty much everyone, including AMD, has accepted the new price point of $299. So, when the 5830 is announced it'll probably be $230-250.

Word goes that they're plentiful but AMD's asked retailers to keep the lid on for some reason. Might be they know something about that upcoming major price drop that will coincide with Fermi.
Maybe trying to steal some Fermi thunder with a nice value card?
 
I'm hoping for a price line up like this:
5830 - $199/219/229
5850 - $259/269
5870 - $299/339
5890 - $399

I also think they'll throw out a faster card at the $399 price point once Fermi drops (whether or not Fermi is any good). At least a guy can dream..... :)
 
I would say that I'm hoping for ten cards before the day the consumer Fermis show up on the shelves, but the way things are going that might be a given. It's still mindboggling.
 
Maybe first day of release will see a good deal on the 5830.
Then after prices will move to "screw customer levels".
 
going to guess the 5830 will be released when Nvidia gets around to pushing out the GT3XX versions of the GTX 260 and up and then AMD will undercut Nvidia's pricepoints for similar performing products
 
I'm wondering if the 5830 will be a suped up Juniper, or a cut down Cypress. If it's the second, AMD might be putting themselves in a hard spot, as if they create a huge market for it they'll end up having to use good chips that could be a 5850 or 5870 and loose out on profit(Look at the Phenom II X2 and X3 and how many of those are actually fully functional quads). Maybe it'll just be a P.E.(press edition or phantom edition) just to steal some thunder away from Nvidia. Unlikely, but plausible. Either way, we should have the killer 5000 series mid-range card.
 
I'm wondering if the 5830 will be a suped up Juniper, or a cut down Cypress. If it's the second, AMD might be putting themselves in a hard spot, as if they create a huge market for it they'll end up having to use good chips that could be a 5850 or 5870 and loose out on profit(Look at the Phenom II X2 and X3 and how many of those are actually fully functional quads). Maybe it'll just be a P.E.(press edition or phantom edition) just to steal some thunder away from Nvidia. Unlikely, but plausible. Either way, we should have the killer 5000 series mid-range card.

At this point, it's been 4 months since release, they probably have enough chips coming off the wafers to support 3 different Cypress binned lines. It might help them make use of chips that can't make the 5850 cut as they can't be dropped into 5770s.
 
At this point, it's been 4 months since release, they probably have enough chips coming off the wafers to support 3 different Cypress binned lines. It might help them make use of chips that can't make the 5850 cut as they can't be dropped into 5770s.

You would figure at this point in the chip's lifetime that yields have gotten better, and there won't be many card coming out that can't at least be used for 5850s. I'm sure there's some, but if they sell well the initial reserves will be used up and they'll have to harvest good chips. Depending on what the price is, and how much the chips cost to produce, this could be not so good since AMD needs as much profit as they can get to start offsetting their huge debt. The Intel settlement only went so far, and it wasn't nearly enough.
 
You would figure at this point in the chip's lifetime that yields have gotten better, and there won't be many card coming out that can't at least be used for 5850s. I'm sure there's some, but if they sell well the initial reserves will be used up and they'll have to harvest good chips. Depending on what the price is, and how much the chips cost to produce, this could be not so good since AMD needs as much profit as they can get to start offsetting their huge debt. The Intel settlement only went so far, and it wasn't nearly enough.

Who knows, maybe the price point is needed to fill a gap in the market and that will result in more sales than otherwise may have happened. This is also being done to compete with Nvidia and increase their marketshare as well. It's more than just how much money they can make from each chip.

For the consumers, if they are actually harvesting good chips, that could also mean good overclocking unless they explicity lock out features somehow.
 
Someone on another forum said an overclock of core speed to 843mhz will match 5830 with 5850. And that considering 750mhz is the standard, it should be plausible.
 
Someone on another forum said an overclock of core speed to 843mhz will match 5830 with 5850. And that considering 750mhz is the standard, it should be plausible.

Looks like it might be a cannabilizer. If it cost $50-75 less than a 5850 and can be reliably overclocked to actually meet it's performance, then we might be looking at the AMD version of Nvidia's Ti4200. It's going to be an interesting time to be a PC hardware consumer with the two giants looking to duke it out.
 
Looks like it might be a cannabilizer. If it cost $50-75 less than a 5850 and can be reliably overclocked to actually meet it's performance, then we might be looking at the AMD version of Nvidia's Ti4200. It's going to be an interesting time to be a PC hardware consumer with the two giants looking to duke it out.

Long time ago I used to own a Nvidia Ti4600 (until its fan died and it cooked itself). Anyway, 5830 seems like I good card, but at $230ish, it costs too much seeing as you can get a 5770 for $155ish. It needs to cost about $200-$210 to be a hot deal.
 
They are supposed to be as fast if not faster then a 4890.
So the 5830 is a 4890 with DX11 and all the other new features.
 
They are supposed to be as fast if not faster then a 4890.
So the 5830 is a 4890 with DX11 and all the other new features.

And, honestly, that's not bad at all, especially if it can match or beat the price of the current 4890.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units

With the rumoured specs on wiki 816mhz core on 5830 beats 5850 already. Since they both have 32 ROPs and the 5830 already has a higher clock, the 5830 already has a higher pixel fill rate at stock.

72 x 725 = 52,200 texture fill rate of 5850
52,200 / 64 (TMUs of 5830) = 815.625mhz
That's the core required to be even with the texture fill rate of the 5850. At that core the pixel fill rate beats the 5850 by even more. So if a 10% overclock is possible (which it usually is from my brief knowledge - correct me if I'm wrong, only been following computer stuff since Aug 2009), the 5830 will beat a stock 5850 on texture fill rate as well, but before I get carried away, it still does have fewer SPs so I'm not sure how that affects it.

What worries me however, is that when it missed the rumoured Jan26 and Feb 5th release schedules, there were rumours saying it was PCB issues.
http://digitimes.com/news/a20100127PD219.html
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17448/1/

I'm hoping ATI is holding it back simply to avoid cannabalizing its 5850 sales.

Edit: The stock core is weird to me since all previous releases of lower graphics cards in the 5#xx always has a lower core than the higher 5#xx. Rumours could be wrong I guess.
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units

With the rumoured specs on wiki 816mhz core on 5830 beats 5850 already. Since they both have 32 ROPs and the 5830 already has a higher clock, the 5830 already has a higher pixel fill rate at stock.

72 x 725 = 52,200 texture fill rate of 5850
52,200 / 64 (TMUs of 5830) = 815.625mhz
That's the core required to be even with the texture fill rate of the 5850. At that core the pixel fill rate beats the 5850 by even more. So if a 10% overclock is possible (which it usually is from my brief knowledge - correct me if I'm wrong, only been following computer stuff since Aug 2009), the 5830 will beat a stock 5850 on texture fill rate as well, but before I get carried away, it still does have fewer SPs so I'm not sure how that affects it.

What worries me however, is that when it missed the rumoured Jan26 and Feb 5th release schedules, there were rumours saying it was PCB issues.
http://digitimes.com/news/a20100127PD219.html
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17448/1/

I'm hoping ATI is holding it back simply to avoid cannabalizing its 5850 sales.

Edit: The stock core is weird to me since all previous releases of lower graphics cards in the 5#xx always has a lower core than the higher 5#xx. Rumours could be wrong I guess.
I thought the rumored core speed was 750MHz?
 
I thought the rumored core speed was 750MHz?

The 725mhz I used is the 5850's core just to show you the texture fill rate of 5850 which I went on using to derive a core speed for 5830 to get the equivalent texture fill rate of the 5830.

If they gimp the 5830 to 128 bit then it might make sense at 750 mhz but as of right now, it looks like a real cannibalizer. If it's 256 bit then something like 650 mhz makes more sense.
 
Has Ati released any hard specs on the 5830 yet?

Or are all these numbers simply conjecture???
 
Yeah it's all based on a leak from some European retailer's website.

Edit - The 5830 is all but confirmed, but the specs are purely conjecture.
 
If my HD3870 can hold out a bit longer until the 5830 is released, I'll skip buying the 5770 for this.
 
5830 will be a desirable card for weaker PSUs since all logic points it to only needing 1 PCI-E 6-pin connector. Probably the most powerful card under 150W TDP.
 
The 725mhz I used is the 5850's core just to show you the texture fill rate of 5850 which I went on using to derive a core speed for 5830 to get the equivalent texture fill rate of the 5830.

If they gimp the 5830 to 128 bit then it might make sense at 750 mhz but as of right now, it looks like a real cannibalizer. If it's 256 bit then something like 650 mhz makes more sense.

they must be gimping it else the model wouldn't make any sense unless they called it 5860.
 
they must be gimping it else the model wouldn't make any sense unless they called it 5860.

He's not doing it right. What he's not taking into account is that the 5830 is suppose to have 1280 SPs while the 5850 has 1440 SPs so the 5830 should be roughly 10% slower all around.

But, I don't see why they would up the clock speed as much as they have, 725 or 700 just makes more sense for it.

Wait. Why/how did he pull 816mhz core out of his ass? Everything has been stating that the core for the 5830 is going to be 750mhz.
The still-unannounced 5830 reportedly packs the same Cypress LE core used in Radeon HD 5850 cards, but with 1280 stream processors instead of 1440, and will be able to crank out 60 texels per clock rather than 72 on the 5850.

The memory configuration will remain the same, 1GB of GDDR5 memory operating at 1000MHz, but apparently the core clock has been upped from 725MHz on the 5850 to 750MHz. Physically the two cards will be very similar, possibly using the same PCB and cooler...
 
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He's not doing it right. What he's not taking into account is that the 5830 is suppose to have 1280 SPs while the 5850 has 1440 SPs so the 5830 should be roughly 10% slower all around.

But, I don't see why they would up the clock speed as much as they have, 725 or 700 just makes more sense for it.

Wait. Why/how did he pull 816mhz core out of his ass? Everything has been stating that the core for the 5830 is going to be 750mhz.
No, you (and I, and many others) misread what he posted. He's saying that with the rumored specs (shaders, processors, etc.), all you need to do is bump the core to 816MHz to beat a 5850. Considering it's allegedly at 750 already, it's a measly 66MHz bump to beat the next-highest card.
 
That's close to what I'm saying but not quite still. I am only taking into account fill rates (texture and pixel) as I did clearly state I had no idea how SP affects performance.

http://www.gpureview.com/shader-operations-article-357.html
That's all I understand about SPs (other than more is better lol)

The 816mhz was derived mathematically and not pulled out of my ass. With this you can work it out yourself:
Pixel Fillrate = # ROPs x Clock (http://www.gpureview.com/pixel-fill-rate-article-365.html)
Texture Fillrate = # TMUs x Clock (http://www.gpureview.com/texture-fill-rate-article-375.html)

I'm not trying to stir up shit. I'm just linking sources of all the latest rumours (with sources) to keep people who are interested in this card up to date. We'll see on Thursday if more rumours excuse its release or if it actually makes an appearance.

Edit: Here's something to spark thought:
http://en.inpai.com.cn/doc/enshowcont.asp?id=6829
Basically 4860 has better texture and pixel fill rates (due to higher core clocks) than a 4850 but fewer SPs. Given this, I sure would like the 5830 at rumoured specs (hopefully also with 256 bit) at any discount lower than 5850.

Kinda similar to 4770 giving 4850 a run for its money too (altho I'm not too sure how die shrink affects performance; I know there's the power draw side of things). 4770 has higher clock and fewer SPs and TMUs.
 
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The 5830 would only have to be overclocked to 815.625mhz in order to match a stock 5850. If that is possible with just one 6-pin PCI-E connector, I do not know. However, it appears to me that the 5830 wasn't gimped enough to fit the $230~ price segment.

I would have went with a stock clock of 650mhz or 675mhz
 
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