Legality of ripped DVD ISOs

L

lithium726

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Messages
8,195
So in light of the recent 'Feds will make an image of the laptop's hard drive' bullshit, I'm having to re-think my laptop plans for my trip to Germany next month. One thing I really wanted to do was rip a few DVDs to ISOs for viewing on the plane, as that would use far less power than having the CD drive spin the disc constantly. However, I don't want the MPAA on my ass if they do decide to make an image of my drive (which will be a spare with a bare XP install, by the by...). So, how legal are DVD backups if I own the original DVD in question?
 
you are bypassing encryption in order to rip these to your hard drive...


it is illegal -> DMCA
 
Verge said:
you are bypassing encryption in order to rip these to your hard drive...


it is illegal -> DMCA
Click to expand...

Are you sure about that?

The vob files are what contains the encryption, right? So if one were to create an ISO of the DVD, without decrypting it, then nothing has been bypassed.

Really, though -- you're traveling into a different country with different laws. Do you really want your legal advice to come from some internet forum?
 
I believe you are allowed to make a 'backup' of your DVDs, as long as you are not attempting to sell, or distribute the contents from the DVD.

Not sure anymore though, the rules seems to have been blurred to make everything legal and illegal at the same time. An action becomes either or at any time the MPAA sees fit. So on the way into the courthouse everything was legal, but once in front of the judge everything becomes illegal. Lol, very confusing.
 
See, this is where the legality thing gets screwy. This is the classic Catch-22 situation, and if you're not sure what that means, here's one example:

You need to get a job to get some work experience, but no one will hire you because you don't have any work experience. Get how that works? Ok, now to discuss how this relates to DVD backups.

In the US (I have no idea about other country's laws, and since I'm born and bred here in the US, that's where my explanation comes from), we have that utterly nonsensical piece of shit known as the DMCA. Because of the DMCA, it becomes an illegal act to "crack" or break the encryption used to encrypt/protect the content on a retail DVD disc - but not every disc you buy in stores will have the CSS (Content Scramble/Scrambling System) that's used to encrypt them.

If a DVD does not protect the content with CSS, copy it all you damned well please - you're entitled to make a backup copy, that's a given.

But... if the DVD content is protected by CSS, anything you do that gets around/bypasses/cracks/breaks the encryption becomes a Federal offense.. Even if you're just trying to make a backup of your legally purchased and physical media - you can't do it legally, period.

See the Catch-22?

You're entitled to make a backup of media, but in order to do that you have to break the encryption protection provided by CSS, sooo... it's a no-win situation. You can't do the backup unless you break the encryption, and breaking the encryption is the no-no, so... either way you lose if you're caught.

Now for some good news:

You can use software that will make a perfect ISO copy - bit for bit - of a DVD directly on the hard drive without breaking the CSS and then mount that ISO using something like VirtualCD from Microsoft (it actually works very well and is barely there in terms of resources), DaemonTools (the most popular virtual CD/DVD application by far), Alcohol 120%, even Nero has a virtual CD/DVD driver too. Once the ISO is mounted, use your DVD playback software to load and watch the movie from the "virtual" CD/DVD drive that your OS now sees.

So, that's your solution: do the ISO method, which keeps everything perfectly legit, even here in the US. The CSS never gets decrypted by anything except an authorized client application (aka the DVD playback software which is licensed to do such things), you have a backup if necessary of the original DVD, and you're all set.

Anything less than a bit-for-bit copy of the original DVD content becomes illegal because the only way to get the content off the disc aside from that perfect 1:1 bit-for-bit copy would mean cracking the CSS to read the VOBs directly, and that's where you get yourself in a world of shit if you get caught by some overzealous airport or border security personnel.

Bleh...
 
Joe, I've been using DVD Decrypter and mounting with Daemon tools, what software can I use to make a bit-for-bit copy? I don't think alcohol will read the CD correctly, but I do have an old version of 120%. Thanks

Really, though -- you're traveling into a different country with different laws. Do you really want your legal advice to come from some internet forum?
Click to expand...
I googled it and couldn't really find anything. I figured someone on here would know something about the legality of CD/DVD ripping.
 
ImgBurn should be able to make you a bit-for-bit ISO onto the hard drive of most any optical media you've got. One other plus: ImgBurn is what used to be DVDDecrypter, at least major parts of it. ;) Same person or persons that created DVDDecrypter created ImgBurn after they stopping development on DVDDecrypter years past.
 
Demon10000 said:
So if one were to create an ISO of the DVD, without decrypting it, then nothing has been bypassed
Click to expand...

When talking dvd's, "ripping" generally doesn't mean this... but yes, that should be legal.
 
lithium726 said:
So in light of the recent 'Feds will make an image of the laptop's hard drive' bullshit, I'm having to re-think my laptop plans for my trip to Germany next month.
Click to expand...

What is this about? They are going to image your HDD at the airport or what? How can that be legal?
 
lol, I don't travel abroad, but it wouldn't matter, they can't touch my laptop, mater of national security :) Though I wonder how I would go above proving that...need to put someone at the DOD on my speed dial for my cell I guess.

I agree, I dont quite see how they can image your hard drive, seems like a breach of privacy; but the patriot act throws privacy out the window, which I really can't blame 'em for it.
 
Simply make sure you have a password protected login and don't give them the info. There is a law against incriminating yourself right?
 
riot8ap said:
Simply make sure you have a password protected login and don't give them the info. There is a law against incriminating yourself right?
Click to expand...

You're kidding right? Sorry, I have to ask since I don't see a smiley or anything there that would indicate sarcasm or making a joke... which I hope you are making.

Seriously.
 
Why would I be joking? If you research the news articles, the customs agent asks you for your password so he/she can log in.

Seriously.

edit: I haven't read a single source which states that they are just ripping hd's bit for bit from every person who crosses the border. The OP has nothing to worry about.
 
riot8ap said:
Simply make sure you have a password protected login and don't give them the info. There is a law against incriminating yourself right?
Click to expand...

There's a law against withholding evidence and impeding police/federal investigation.
 
Danny Bui said:
There's a law against withholding evidence and impeding police/federal investigation.
Click to expand...

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/04/border-agents-c.html

The 9th's ruling did not, however, clarify whether a traveler has to help the government search his computer, by providing the login information, or what would happen when the government decided to search a laptop with encrypted data on the drive.
Click to expand...

Until they rule you have to help them, they can f off.
 
Danny Bui said:
There's a law against withholding evidence and impeding police/federal investigation.
Click to expand...

That's not quite applicable here. As an American citizen theoretically you are protected against illegal search and seizure. An example of this is if you get pulled over for speeding and the officer asks you to open your trunk. You have every right in the world to say no and the officer cannot search your trunk. The logic here is that speeding has absolutaly no relevance, or does not suggest that you are doing anything more illegal than speeding. Drug smugglers probably aren't stupid enough to go 100 in a 55, just like a guy with a dead hooker in his trunk will probably keep it under the limit for the same reason. So the police ask in the hopes that you will say yes, waiving your constitutional rights against unreasonable search and seizure.

The scarey thing here is this no longer applies (at least for now) when crossing the border with electronic devices (as the [H] linked earlier today). For whatever reason the government officially gave itself the ability to say, and pardon my langauge, "fuck the constitution" and make copies of, or just plain confiscate any electronic devices any person (citizen or not) carries accross the border. Pardon my language again here, but this is completely fucking ridiculous. The implication that the only reason people cross the border is to either smuggle in kiddie porn or commit terrorist acts against this country is so personally offensive as to be un-american. This government, in NO WAY EVER was intended to have power like this. lithium726, your best bet, for now, is to remove the back-ups (for the reason's Joe Average explained) and put them on a second hard drive. The phrasing of the previously mentioned article suggests external hard drives are also fair game for search and seizure. Unless you want to make a political statement, in which case leave it on password protected and encrypted. If it does create an issue, i'm sure their are many really really good lawyers out there that would take this case on pro bono, if you want to go through the hassle.
 
riot8ap said:
Why would I be joking? If you research the news articles, the customs agent asks you for your password so he/she can log in.
Click to expand...

WTF? They can't do that unless you are charged with a crime. Not where I live anyway.
 
Danny Bui said:
There's a law against withholding evidence and impeding police/federal investigation.
Click to expand...


What investigation? Isn't he saying they are claiming to have the right to search your laptops HDD at the airport as part of their search routine? If it's part of a criminal investigation then that is different but I don't think that is what he is saying. I don't have any sensitive data anyway but I wouldn't allow them to image my HDD just out of the principle that it is an invasion of my privacy.
 
milkweg said:
What investigation? Isn't he saying they are claiming to have the right to search your laptops HDD at the airport as part of their search routine? If it's part of a criminal investigation then that is different but I don't think that is what he is saying. I don't have any sensitive data anyway but I wouldn't allow them to image my HDD just out of the principle that it is an invasion of my privacy.
Click to expand...

Didn't say there was an investigation. Just saying that's a law against impeding investigation. But yeah that's not what he is saying.
 
Contrary to popular belief, laws don't exist to "protect" people; they exist solely to punish those that break the laws. Talk about a Catch-22... if you obey the "law" your entire life and never break it, realistically the "law" has provided you with no real benefits, regardless of how much you think it does. But, cross that line, and get caught, and then the full weight of the "justice system" comes down on you like an anvil.

There is nothing illegal about a customs or border agent asking "Will you tell me your user login and password so I can log in to verify the contents of this portable computer's storage device?"

If it is, then it's illegal for any cop to ask me "Mind if I search your car?" the next time I get stopped - fat chance as I haven't owned a car for nearly 20 years now and I have no intentions of buying one anytime soon, especially with gas prices so ridiculously high.

But my earlier point still holds: say yes, get it over quick, say no and be prepared for the consequences that come with the decision because you will most assuredly not be moving through the line quickly afterwards.
 
Joe Average said:
Contrary to popular belief, laws don't exist to "protect" people; they exist solely to punish those that break the laws. Talk about a Catch-22... if you obey the "law" your entire life and never break it, realistically the "law" has provided you with no real benefits, regardless of how much you think it does. But, cross that line, and get caught, and then the full weight of the "justice system" comes down on you like an anvil.

There is nothing illegal about a customs or border agent asking "Will you tell me your user login and password so I can log in to verify the contents of this portable computer's storage device?"

If it is, then it's illegal for any cop to ask me "Mind if I search your car?" the next time I get stopped - fat chance as I haven't owned a car for nearly 20 years now and I have no intentions of buying one anytime soon, especially with gas prices so ridiculously high.

But my earlier point still holds: say yes, get it over quick, say no and be prepared for the consequences that come with the decision because you will most assuredly not be moving through the line quickly afterwards.
Click to expand...

You have valid points, but I think most (not all) people are too quick to give up their "right" in order to proceed down the line. The old saying, "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear", is so bogus. Honestly, if they asked me for my info I'd say no..yea I might miss my flight, but it is worth it stand up to these guys. They'll keep eroding rights until someone fights back.
 
I think there is a huge difference between the security of the United States, and the issue of bringing in illegal contraband into the United States! This is the question.

At customs the plane has already landed, and there is absolutely no issue with "Homeland Security" per se. This is an issue of bringing in illegal materials, whether it be fruit, drugs, or kiddie porn. There is nothing new about this concept.

Now whether searching your laptop is different than searching your luggage.......you decide.

So we can leave security of our country out of this discussion
 
Fill your pictures folder with goat-se and tubgirl!

Set goat-se as your background!

Naturally, give them fair warning. If they chose to ignore your advice, then supply your password.
 
Customs has the ability to execute warrentless searches on anyone who crosses the boarder INTO the United States. Being a US Citizen does not exempt you from this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, addressing a criminal defendant's challenge to Customs' authority to search electronic files in United States v. Ickes, held that there is no First Amendment exception to the border search doctrine for expressive materials . The Court based its finding in part on the demands of protecting the nation from terrorist threats that may cross the American border in expressive materials.In its analysis, the Court stated:

The border search doctrine is justified by the longstanding right of the sovereign to protect itself. Particularly in today's world, national security interests may require uncovering terrorist communications, which are inherently “expressive.” Following Ickes's logic would create a sanctuary at the border for all expressive material-even for terrorist plans. This would undermine the compelling reasons that lie at the very heart of the border search doctrine."
Click to expand...
 
ThatDood said:
Maybe you should just take the DVD cases with you in your laptop bag :D
Click to expand...

Starting to think I'll just have to take the disks. I just didn't want the damn optical drive spinning.

AverageJoe: I tried using ImgBurn, but it just read errors on protected disks. If i first crack it with DVD Decrypter and then rip it with ImgBurn, it still says the RCE protection is there but 'copyright protection system' says none. LCISOCreator doesn't work on encrypted sectors, and If I run DVD Decrypter on the disk first, it does the same thing IMGBurn does.
 
oboyco said:
Now whether searching your laptop is different than searching your luggage.......you decide.
Click to expand...

Well, yea, there is a big difference. Searching your luggage and finding a laptop is ok but searching the laptops HDD without reason is the same as a strip search without a valid reason. HDD may contain confidential company info that is not privy to anyone outside of the company. That constitutes an illegal search, IMO.
 
milkweg said:
Well, yea, there is a big difference. Searching your luggage and finding a laptop is ok but searching the laptops HDD without reason is the same as a strip search without a valid reason. HDD may contain confidential company info that is not privy to anyone outside of the company. That constitutes an illegal search, IMO.
Click to expand...

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals disagrees with you.

reasonable suspicion is not needed for customs officials to search a laptop or other electronic device at the international border.
Click to expand...
Citation below.

Opinion from
United States v. Arnold, 2008 WL 1776525 at *4 (9th Cir. 2008)
 
There's a difference between searching and copying...

Seems to me at least.
 
We'll, not that I have anything to hide and I don't have a laptop anyway but IMO the U.S. is turning into a police state so I won't be visiting it anytime soon. And TechLarry is right. They want to copy the data on your HDD and not just search it. Fuck that BS!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top