Leaked Patch Confirms AMD Zen Will Have 32 Cores Per Socket?

SomeGuy133

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the success or failure of zen will depend entirely of prices.. we have already in the market "Haswell" level of performance since 3 years ago.. we have actually skylake which it's a ~20% average of performance above haswell.... Even if AMD truly reached all the estimations about IPC that will mean still not much if Zen can't reach Intel-like clocks which may still keep'em out of the competition, that's why most people think zen will still be a failure, because they are aiming 3 years old performance..

Only people that are going to buy Zen are the same people have AMD chips today, so very very little amount... they need to be appealing to intel users, they need to make people jump the fence and buy their zen processors, they need to convince intel people they have a competitive product with latest intel products which at that moment probably they will be faced against kabylake, if not then no matter what, it will be a failure, that's why prices are what can save truly AMD. .




What make you think Zen 8c/16t will cost 200$? that's almost absurd, 200$ will be about what a 4c/8t zen chip could cost..
where is this SKL is 20% faster than HW? SKL on average is 6% not 20% unless your talking about browser benchmarks like kraken.

If they have HW performance 95% of SKL and a 16 core ECC CPU for $1000 AMD will have my money. I'll upgrade my server to that in a heart beat.
 

Mackintire

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Sounds like (4) 45 watt 8 core modules glued together on one interface ala...Pentium D. I'm betting 1.6-1.8 Ghz with a 2.2Ghz turbo.
 

Araxie

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where is this SKL is 20% faster than HW? SKL on average is 6% not 20% unless your talking about browser benchmarks like kraken.

If they have HW performance 95% of SKL and a 16 core ECC CPU for $1000 AMD will have my money. I'll upgrade my server to that in a heart beat.

Sorry messed my numbers with my test from Ivy Bridge to skylake... depending on the situation you are right...
 

drescherjm

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where is this SKL is 20% faster than HW? SKL on average is 6% not 20% unless your talking about browser benchmarks like kraken.

If they have HW performance 95% of SKL and a 16 core ECC CPU for $1000 AMD will have my money. I'll upgrade my server to that in a heart beat.

I really hope this is the case. I don't expect to buy 100+ like I did with Althlon/Athlon64/Opteron but I can see quite a few Zen purchases between home ann work..
 

Gideon

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Last couple of processors from Intel have been far short of a major leap so if AMD hits Haswell performance then they are good and will do well. Also Intel has stated they are going to focus less on desktops so this is another good thing for AMD. Now AMD just has to live up what the rumors are so far and that is the one area where they have struggled.
 

pendragon1

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Now AMD just has to live up what the rumors are so far and that is the one area where they have struggled.
really?! so if I started a rumor that they actually had 64 core chips with 256MB cache running at 5GHz on every core with a boost clock of 6GHz then they better live up to that? that makes no sense at all. they have to live up to what they state and show. not fucking rumors...
 

Darakian

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really?! so if I started a rumor that they actually had 64 core chips with 256MB cache running at 5GHz on every core with a boost clock of 6GHz then they better live up to that? that makes no sense at all. they have to live up to what they state and show. not fucking rumors...
That's 256MB of cache per core right? That's the rumor I read.
 

pendragon1

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yup! 16GB on the chip!! this thing is gonna be amazing!! code name is phoenix but don't tell anyone I'm supposed to be under NDA ;)
 

KazeoHin

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That's 256MB of cache per core right? That's the rumor I read.

Jubus Chrisp that's crazy-talk. No way, sir. The biggest, fattest, hugest Intel chips on a smaller process have 60MB cache. No way Zen will have much more.
 

pendragon1

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I thought it a fitting name. but like I said its under nda so don't tell anyone! ;)
 

KazeoHin

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So we know ZEN is the uArch familly name, What do you guys think the actual product SKU names will be?

Will they return to FX? Maybe bring back Phenom? Something All New?
 

Darakian

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Jubus Chrisp that's crazy-talk. No way, sir. The biggest, fattest, hugest Intel chips on a smaller process have 60MB cache. No way Zen will have much more.
thatsthejoke.jpg
 

pendragon1

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from what ive heard the new SKU name will be Claremont or Fawkes, they haven't decided yet. they want to move away from the FX stigma, didn't want to reuse an old name like Athlon/phenom but want a homage to their past. so they will also designate each chip iteration with a K64-#. so final SKUs will look like Claremont K64-1 or Fawkes K64-2 with the -# indicating performance level. current plans are for 5 variants, K64-1 to K64-5.
 

gamerk2

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Sorry, meant 4 core 8 thread. I said 8 core but meant 8 thread.

Would really like to see it under 95w as well @ at least 3.4ghz

EVERYTHING I've been hearing so for points to consumer Zen clocked at no higher then 3 GHz; choosing a Low Power Processes over High Performance node, the Engineering Sample was only clocked at 2.4, the sudden focus on IPC, and a reduced pipeline. All if it points to lower clocks, and that's one thing AMD has been mum on.

Remember, if you increase IPC by 30%, but decrease clocks by the same amount, you have a 0% performance-per-core improvement.
 

Pieter3dnow

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EVERYTHING I've been hearing so for points to consumer Zen clocked at no higher then 3 GHz; choosing a Low Power Processes over High Performance node, the Engineering Sample was only clocked at 2.4, the sudden focus on IPC, and a reduced pipeline. All if it points to lower clocks, and that's one thing AMD has been mum on.

Remember, if you increase IPC by 30%, but decrease clocks by the same amount, you have a 0% performance-per-core improvement.

The person that actually wrote something about this on Semiaccurate forums was talking about the server part not the desktop part.

And remember when you discuss rumours you can have math based on rumours but in the end your math does not mean anything to anyone especially when there is no final retail part available yet.
 

Gideon

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really?! so if I started a rumor that they actually had 64 core chips with 256MB cache running at 5GHz on every core with a boost clock of 6GHz then they better live up to that? that makes no sense at all. they have to live up to what they state and show. not fucking rumors...

I'm sorry I didnt know I had to help you understand things. I meant the reasonable rumors of it's performance ie Haswell performance, but next time I will state it out for the simple readers. Until AMD shows us anything we are in the dark and rumors are all we have.
 

pendragon1

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The only thing you have to help me understand is the logic behind your statement that "Now AMD just has to live up what the rumors are". Everything we "know" is a rumor therefore nothing they have to live up to. You're right about us being in the dark though...
 

KazeoHin

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Realistic speculation =/= wild guessing. Trying to determine the possible end-results by making realistic, educated assumptions and piecing together evidence is not at all a waste of time, and can often predict many aspects of upcoming technology, thus help prepare for them as well.
 

pendragon1

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True but expecting the company to live up to our rumors and speculation sound a little entitled. It being a waste of time was never mentioned. Prepare who? Amd? They don't need rumors and speculation to prepare. They are they only ones with the true info.
 

KazeoHin

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True but expecting the company to live up to our rumors and speculation sound a little entitled. It being a waste of time was never mentioned. Prepare who? Amd? They don't need rumors and speculation to prepare. They are they only ones with the true info.

Prepare US for the new technology.

There IS a difference between rumours and expectations. We EXPECT that AMD will come out with a decently competitive chip. RUMOUR has it that it will stomp an i7 6-core.

See the difference?
 

Darakian

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Prepare US for the new technology.

There IS a difference between rumours and expectations. We EXPECT that AMD will come out with a decently competitive chip. RUMOUR has it that it will stomp an i7 6-core.

See the difference?
As I understand the thread, pen had issue with the idea of holding a company to internet rumors as they can be made by anyone. As an example he threw out the 64 core chip and I added on the cache per core.
 

KazeoHin

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As I understand the thread, pen had issue with the idea of holding a company to internet rumors as they can be made by anyone. As an example he threw out the 64 core chip and I added on the cache per core.

That's the issue with such protracted development cycles with little-to-no info to report on: there is literally NO good that can come of such a long period of no info.

Some people will speculate the WORST, and rumours may go around that the product will be terrible, of some people will speculate the BEST, and raise expectations to unrealistic levels.

So in a sense, it is AMD's fault that such rumour mongers have the blank information canvas to paint their spin on, but morally and ethically, AMD does not need to meet or exceed these rumours.
 

pendragon1

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Yeah I know the difference and I get your point. Doesn't seem like you get mine. My whole prob was the " they have to live up to rumors" bit.
We'll see what the truth is when they hit shelves. Til then you guys can have fun with your rumors and expectations. I'm not arguing anymore.
 

Darakian

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I'm not sure there's "No good" that can come from having no info. There's the old adage that no news is good news after all. It sounds like you're arguing for AMD to manage or temper rumors in some way and maybe that's a good idea. That said, if we as the community get into a fervor of expectation and then become disappointed on release we have no one but ourselves to blame.

Edit:
Totally off topic, but someone has defined "jiffies" as a valid variable in the linux kernel. Further, jiffies measure time, one jiffy is the time between two clock ticks.
Jiffies
The more you know ;)
 

Spirit_Retro

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The only thing anyone can do is sit tight and see what happens.

It would be great to see AMD return to the glory days of the Thunderbird Athlon, Athlon 64/X2, or 1090t . Pretty sure a majority of computer enthusiasts would like to see that happen. Competition is good. Cheaper Intel chips would be good too. If they do well- everyone wins.

And while the only (past) advantage the Bulldozer or Piledriver chps was perhaps threaded performance (depending on application)- they were a disappointment. This is true even though I currently run one (happily).

As my as my hopes are with AMD- I'd expect more hype by now if they met or exceeded their performance goals.

So while I hope to be wrong- I'm not optimistic.
 

Pieter3dnow

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Well none of us seen Zen (cept for the video from AMD) and it is safe to say we won't for a good while. Anyone that has been on the internet for a couple of years should know the difference between what makes sense and what does not.

Zen can not sell if there is no IPC improvement (40%) on a per core basis not as one cpu.
Zen can not sell if the ratio between megahertz, architectural changes and performance is broken. (can not claim this chip is meant to run at 10 ghz to compete with Intel)

And then we have to see how far Global Foundries is going to get AMD (that is the very scary part).
I'm sure that if "we" ran a poll on: How badly is Global Foundries going to screw AMD with Zen production

We could get funny results (and sad at the same time) .
 
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noko

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If GloFlo fails to deliver then AMD may have a good option going to Samsung.

When are the A4 motherboards going to hit?
 

Gideon

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The only thing you have to help me understand is the logic behind your statement that "Now AMD just has to live up what the rumors are". Everything we "know" is a rumor therefore nothing they have to live up to. You're right about us being in the dark though...

When Bulldozer was coming out a certain AMD person came on here and told us how fast Bulldozer was going to be, now of course he started performance rumors and we know how that turned out. To me it's simple AMD can spend some time on any forum like they did before but actually give it a bit of a reasonable expectation for the chips. So in this case it was their own rumor they failed to live up to, now you have the backstory.
 

Pieter3dnow

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Some more server side Zen info :
AMD Zeppelin is an 8 core Zen

Each Zeppelin module has eight Zen cores and each core has 512 KB of L2 cache. Four Zen cores share 8MB of L3 cache, making the total amount of L3 cache per Zeppelin cluster 16 MB.
Each Zeppelin cluster will have PCIe Gen 3, SATA 3, and a 10GbE network connection. A server version of the chip has the server controller hub, DDR4 memory controller and AMD secure processors.
 

GothamsReckoning

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Pieter3dnow

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GothamsReckoning

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Yeah that is the April fools version by Fottemberg he runs the bits and chips italian website his prank was so good it had some drama with Joker. At least the drama part was that it was a good April fools ;).

Okay but what about the engineering samples as one member reported they were running at 2.4Ghz? Even Zambezei engineering samples didn't run at 2.4Ghz and I doubt that current Zen engineering samples will run lower than what Zambezei parts did.
 

Nside

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The best thing to expect from a release with no prior info is the worst possible scenario. Rumors are fun to discuss, but not a good thing to bank on.

If you expect the Zen chips to have an entry level price of $500 and performance of a Core 2 Duo, no matter what, you won't be dissappointed. Then, once the retail product is out, you can educate yourself with actual comparisons and then see what has the better price point and performance for your build, whether it be AMD or Intel...
 

Pieter3dnow

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The best thing to expect from a release with no prior info is the worst possible scenario. Rumors are fun to discuss, but not a good thing to bank on.

If you expect the Zen chips to have an entry level price of $500 and performance of a Core 2 Duo, no matter what, you won't be dissappointed. Then, once the retail product is out, you can educate yourself with actual comparisons and then see what has the better price point and performance for your build, whether it be AMD or Intel...

Just buy Zen make it easy on yourself see it as a piece of history before there was no more AMD :) .
 

a3venom

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People overhype AMD's products and then become disappointed at release - like the 480. Pretty retarded thing for some fanboys to expect maybe it will beat the 980 / it will smoke intels i7 in gaming - etc etc.
It is just supposed to be at a good price for what it is - like the 480. It's not supposed to be anything new or groundbreaking - just a good place in the market so that people actually buy it unlike bulldozer.
 

Pieter3dnow

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People overhype AMD's products and then become disappointed at release - like the 480. Pretty retarded thing for some fanboys to expect maybe it will beat the 980 / it will smoke intels i7 in gaming - etc etc.
It is just supposed to be at a good price for what it is - like the 480. It's not supposed to be anything new or groundbreaking - just a good place in the market so that people actually buy it unlike bulldozer.

You are the first one to write this. As for the clowns posting such a stupid amount of shit from videocardz is just that. You can read every bit of the 480 rumour threads and you would have noticed they only discussed what was posted on rumour sites. Most (if not all) of the trolling came from Nvidia fanboys ......
 

a3venom

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You are the first one to write this. As for the clowns posting such a stupid amount of shit from videocardz is just that. You can read every bit of the 480 rumour threads and you would have noticed they only discussed what was posted on rumour sites. Most (if not all) of the trolling came from Nvidia fanboys ......

If you go to r/amd and r/nvidia - no one is dissing AMD in the the green one but the r/amd fanboys are pretty much retarded believing that AMD is the superior company and constantly shitting on Nvidia. It's good for memes but it is really disturbing when someone actually thinks that AMD makes better tech outright. It is competitive with Nvidia yes, but because of their better pricing for similar/better perf. When you look at tech advancements Nvidia is clearly superior - so it is funny to see AMD fans thinking otherwise.

It's actually even funny being a fan of either, unlike political parties / sports rivalries - chips are objectively comparable and it's easy to see what's what.

But no one shits on Zen because it is a monopoly right now and most people realize that I guess.
 
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