League of Legends vs dota

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qbert3

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
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So I've been playing league of legends a little over a month now, loving it by the way, I don't like all the downtime and "scheduled" maintenance, its like a damn MMO when this happens. Anways, I usually play team fortress 2 on downtimw, but I tried going back to the original dota on wc3 and damn, I almost feel like im looking at GTA2 vs GTA3-4.

the difference didnt hit me until I stopped playing for a few months and tried going back to dota...
 
I have to disagree...

I played HoN for about 2 months and i've been playing dota since like 3.0 (maybe 3.8 something).

HoN is trying to duplicate it a little too much, and not improve it.

Pros:
- Yes it has ranking, ok.
- It has replays, hey WC3 had replays, no biggie
- It copies all dota heroes, so dota players that migrate over dont have trouble learning the game.

Cons:
- Visuals, the spells are intense, so much that I cant see a damn thing going on in big fights.
- I really liked the shop menu at first, but then I felt it was a little annoying to navigate once I knew everything. It took too long to get what I wanted.
- I hate that I have to join a game where everyone sees what level I am.. think about it, for what? so humans can stack a team together? let a script that knows all stats judge who should go with who. oh you have a team? fine make a different search engine for that (LoL will have it).
- I played it for about 2-3 months straight. I thought it was the biggest thing to come to the dota community. However even though I started to get very good, my rank wasn't "high" and no one wanted me on their team, I had a very hard time finding games. I would usually get booted out of most.

All in all, I am a former dota CAL player, I feel like I should be able to pick up a dota rip off and know whats up. HoN gave me this, but very slow, even when I got it, the matchmaking just wasnt there.

In LoL, I get a completely new game, new heroes and new abilities. I understand the system, its simplified. I like the rune system they have, I can customize my specific heroes the way I like (on HP/DMG/or MANA etc). When I join a game, I only see my team, I see what champs we pick, we talk about whos going to solo, how we can work 2v2s out and then after that im takin to a loading screen where I see who we play VS. thats what I like the most, none of this "hold on man, hes like 1520!, kick plz!".

why should I have to deal with that? there is no excuse, Riot games is stepping up their game and theres a lot to be said about it.
 
I like both LoL and HoN more than Dota, primarily because HoN is essentially dota with updated graphics and has the features that dota needed but couldn't incorporate (voice chat, being able to reconnect, ranking system etc...). LoL is my favorite from the 3 because of the ability to customize even the same heroes, and I actually like a leveling//buying heroes and runes system.
 
I stopped playing HoN after the dev's stated that they wouldn't be adjusting the FoV because "DOTA has it like this and it would cause balance issues" That's just laziness to me. Instead of trying to make it better, you keep it the same because "DOTA did it this way." They could have earned my $30 if they said, hey, we're making this game, it's like DOTA but we're going to improve it and tried upping the FoV a bit (I ended up getting headaches playing HoN because of how big their models combined with the low FoV). HoN was a godsend at first when they allowed you to set the custom FoV and it made playing full screen on my 2560x1600 monitor enjoyable. Once they locked it in, I started getting headaches as soon as I played for extended periods of time (2-3 hours, or after 1 or 2 games I'd start getting headaches). So what HoN really came down to was, improved graphics, reconnect, and a ranking system.

Graphics: Good, a refreshing change, some hate it, some love it. Doesn't matter to much to me nor is it worth $30

Reconnect: Good, but I never found a need to reconnect to games and most games I played I rarely had people disconnecting, not worth $30.

Ranking: Good at first, but then it's evolved to things like, Oh I don't want YOU on my team because you aren't 1700+ or some stupid crap like that. I'm not sure if HoN will eventually have an automated matchmaker system, but as it stands, public PSR creates retarded arrogant elitist attitudes when you're playing alone.

So overall, HoN is great as a DOTA clone but I really don't see the innovation that makes it worth $30 to me. I asked myself, is this game worth $30 to me and the answer was no.

The map editor will be nice, but I really doubt it's going to be able to create enough innovation to hold me back from SC2/D3/SWOR. Hence, I'm playing LoL/AvP/ME2/Dragon Age in the meantime.
 
Thats being overly harsh on HoN

Its aim was to be an updated DotA from the start. It was also stated it would mirror alot of dota during beta so that the likes of balance discussions could occur from dota vets.

s2 have added a few s2 original heroes to the mix, but the fact is the dota originals are tried and tested. They have had to be tweaked to come inline with hon specifics (namely game speed)


lol suffers from it being a more you pay&pay the better heroes you have access to, which is very bad from a balance p.o.v.


if you like lol then fine, if you like dota then fine they are different enough to cater for different types of ppl. I have heard plenty of ppl who got frustrated with how hard hon is go to lol ONLY to return to dota because lol is skewed and too easy
 
I like LoL more than HoN. Why? CUZ THEY HAVE TEEMO BITCHES!

CAPTAIN TEEMO ON DUTY!
 
The thing that kills HoN for me besides the fact it is dota just prettier basically is the community. I couldn't stand the dota community and that is now the HoN community. I like LoL so far, people are a lot nicer in general and you are stuck having to buy anything if you don't want too, you can just play and get the points to unlock the hero.
 
LoL is downright awful. Complete step backwards. Feels nothing like DotA. HoN felt right, but I only played one or two games.
 
I haven't played DoTA, how similar is it (and HoN) to Demigod?
 
z3r0- said:
LoL is downright awful. Complete step backwards. Feels nothing like DotA. HoN felt right, but I only played one or two games.
Click to expand...

HoN's intent was to literally copy Dota mechanics so Dota players feel right at home.

HoN did.
Click to expand...

Yup. Pretty much the only thing that HoN needs to catch up on is more heroes, but that'll happen with time.
 
qbert3 said:
- Visuals, the spells are intense, so much that I cant see a damn thing going on in big fights.
- I really liked the shop menu at first, but then I felt it was a little annoying to navigate once I knew everything. It took too long to get what I wanted.
- I hate that I have to join a game where everyone sees what level I am.. think about it, for what? so humans can stack a team together? let a script that knows all stats judge who should go with who. oh you have a team? fine make a different search engine for that (LoL will have it).
- I played it for about 2-3 months straight. I thought it was the biggest thing to come to the dota community. However even though I started to get very good, my rank wasn't "high" and no one wanted me on their team, I had a very hard time finding games. I would usually get booted out of most.

All in all, I am a former dota CAL player, I feel like I should be able to pick up a dota rip off and know whats up. HoN gave me this, but very slow, even when I got it, the matchmaking just wasnt there.

In LoL, I get a completely new game, new heroes and new abilities. I understand the system, its simplified. I like the rune system they have, I can customize my specific heroes the way I like (on HP/DMG/or MANA etc). When I join a game, I only see my team, I see what champs we pick, we talk about whos going to solo, how we can work 2v2s out and then after that im takin to a loading screen where I see who we play VS. thats what I like the most, none of this "hold on man, hes like 1520!, kick plz!".

why should I have to deal with that? there is no excuse, Riot games is stepping up their game and theres a lot to be said about it.
Click to expand...

1) Don't know what to tell you besides "its just you"
2) Its another "its just you" thing. also, not to call you out, but when you know where everything is how does it take too long?
3) Haha, sorry but thats hilarious. Again, it seems to come down to personal preference. I guess every game should remove public rankings right? And just FYI, matchmaking is coming soon
4) Uhh, seems overall very vague. in fact, I don't buy it. its so easy to find a game at the higher levels, so I don't believe it. whats is your PSR?

And why cant you do what you do in LoL, but in Hon? I mean, talk about what heroes your going to play, 2v2s, etc. it still applies to HoN.

Again, let me emphasize that HoN is still in CLOSED BETA. BETA



soulesschild, I can't believe you can't seem the balance implications? Do us a favor and stick to Solitaire.
 
League of Legend isn't bad, and there is a lot of changes compare to DotA..

about HoN, I totally disagree this game will be a successor over DotA, or even taking over it..

The graphic of HoN is fantastic, but its color and texture really makes the game goes down.
I am having a hard time to tell who is who. sometime even worse in big battle that I can't even tell wth is going on, and all of sudden either they all end up re-spawning or the opposite.

also there are some hero in HoN that is completely making the game unbalance.

overall, most people that I talk to and who have tried HoN, they all want to stick with DotA.

HoN have several good features that I really like, that is in-game mic support. and shop organize..
 
The problem with LoL is it is essentially pay2play.
HoN went out to be a upgraded version of DotA (S2 <3 that game) to overcome limitations of the mod by having a dedicated engine. They went out of their way to mirror DotA w.r.t ballance for quite some time to allow dota vet's to comment on other aspects of the game that were unique to HoN.

As the game went on it has diverged such that it is having its own tweaks and ballance numbers that differ from dota (mainly due to HoN having orb stacking as well as a significant number of S2 own heroes).

Between OrbStacking and VectorTargeting (Zephyr gust) and such it is becoming more and more different) they are aiming for a balance competitive game and they are getting there - the next patch should be epic!!


with LoL
when you get ~30pts per game and need ~ 4000pts to get a hero unlock. THUS it is impossible to ballance
 
eeyrjmr said:
The problem with LoL is it is essentially pay2play.
HoN went out to be a upgraded version of DotA (S2 <3 that game) to overcome limitations of the mod by having a dedicated engine. They went out of their way to mirror DotA w.r.t ballance for quite some time to allow dota vet's to comment on other aspects of the game that were unique to HoN.

As the game went on it has diverged such that it is having its own tweaks and ballance numbers that differ from dota (mainly due to HoN having orb stacking as well as a significant number of S2 own heroes).

Between OrbStacking and VectorTargeting (Zephyr gust) and such it is becoming more and more different) they are aiming for a balance competitive game and they are getting there - the next patch should be epic!!


with LoL
when you get ~30pts per game and need ~ 4000pts to get a hero unlock. THUS it is impossible to ballance
Click to expand...
Weird. LoL is free for me. I'm not sure what game you're playing.

I agree on the points thing, but they give you free champions every week and you certainly make more than 30points per game unless you are awful.
 
MrFace said:
Weird. LoL is free for me. I'm not sure what game you're playing.

I agree on the points thing, but they give you free champions every week and you certainly make more than 30points per game unless you are awful.
Click to expand...
it is free BUT to get more stuff you end up having to play alot OR buy it. Thus making the game biased towards those that have played alot more or those that have spent money. This imbalances the game w.r.t. who joins since the pool of heroes will be restricted for some and bigger for others
 
Wow, never heard of HoN, but it sounds interesting. Can I just sign up/go play the beta, or do I need to be invited? Also, how big is the download?

I'm assuming there is widescreen support, which would be awesome considering Warcraft 3 doesn't (without image stretching).
 
Actuary said:
Wow, never heard of HoN, but it sounds interesting. Can I just sign up/go play the beta, or do I need to be invited? Also, how big is the download?

I'm assuming there is widescreen support, which would be awesome considering Warcraft 3 doesn't (without image stretching).
Click to expand...

HoN does widescreen just fine. Toss me your email in a PM and I'll send you a beta invite.
 
Actuary said:
Wow, never heard of HoN, but it sounds interesting. Can I just sign up/go play the beta, or do I need to be invited? Also, how big is the download?

I'm assuming there is widescreen support, which would be awesome considering Warcraft 3 doesn't (without image stretching).
Click to expand...

widescreen support is good. The community is a little ... unforgiving but if you catch the gameplay it is very fun (and frustrating)

openbeta in a few weeks if you don't manage to get a key
 
The key is you have to understand who you are playing against. The crowd is generally little kids, or kids who grew up in the xbox age of throwing controllers and having fits. Then you have your angry russians and brazillians.

To enjoy the game you need to chill and be able to dish trash talk to children.
 
Madalienmonk said:
soulesschild, I can't believe you can't seem the balance implications? Do us a favor and stick to Solitaire.
Click to expand...

ROFL. All the HoN fanboys are coming out. Typical of any HoN vs LoL discussion. All the HoN lovers bash LoL with the same typical responses. I played DOTA and it's original (Aeon of Strife) for many years (remember those broken CM and Medusa days?) and was one of the first into the HoN beta. How LONG have YOU been playing HoN or DOTA?

1. LoL you haz to pay MONAY!
Response: No you don't. Nobody forces you to pay, you only pay for convenience. Increased XP/IP earning, permanent access to a hero without having to waste your IP on heroes and instead focus on runes. HoN fanboys love trying to spread this FUD that you HAVE to pay to play LoL. Guess what, you HAVE to pay when HoN becomes retail while LoL you can happily play without paying a single dime. A lot of the top players in LoL haven't paid a dime yet they are still top players, what does that tell you? RIOT has always had a stance that it would NEVER sell power and to this day, they still haven't. So please, stop spreading this FUD that you have to pay to play LoL, and if you insist that you do, remind people that HoN will eventually cost $30 when it comes out of beta. :rolleyes:

2. LoL sucks, it's nothing like DOTA or HoN! It doesn't have denying blah blah blah.
Response: No shit sherlock, it's not meant to be an exact DOTA clone like HoN. See here, http://www.leagueoflegends.com/articles/dota_and_lol
3. The graphics sucks!
Response: Personal preference, get over it. It doesn't make the game awesome nor does it make it suck.


I know there is balance implications. My point was that those were relatively easy to tweak and rebalance to make people NOT get a headache when playing. It doesn't help business when your game starts to make people who play get headaches now does it? Considering when they opened up the pre-purchase plan I was very willing to give them 30 dollars until the below happened...

Their Devs were extremely firm in saying that it would never be open to discussion or change again DESPITE having a poll on their forums that had many in favor of increasing the FoV a little bit. One of the main responses of the Dev was things such as, oh Valkyire arrow will be imbalanced because it'll be easier to dodge! Or hook from Pharaoh will be easier to dodge! The community response, and several from top DOTA players was to re-balance the speed of the projectiles to make it faster, or tweak fog of war. Devs never replied back and instead, closed the thread. Another easy fix was to re-do the model size but that never got around to being done. So still, I get headaches when playing.

If they aren't willing to innovate (no, new heroes don't count because DOTA has new heroes added as well), then what is my 30 bucks really buying? New graphics? Reconnect? PSR?

Again,
1. Graphics? Meh meh, I don't care for them, nor do I hate them. However, the models are far too large/not proportional
2. Reconnect? I used G-Host to host so the connection was always very stable and firm. Nobody ever had issues and I had someone drop maybe 1 out of every 50 games.
3. PSR/Stat tracking? It leads to alot of trash talking and team biasing when trying to get a game. Also never mattered to me due to G-Host bot stat tracking and I didn't have to weed people out because I played in leagues, not pubs.

So tell me again what my $30 are buying that makes it worth it aside from headaches when playing on my 2560x1600 monitor and having super large models that aren't proportional to the rest of the game?

@Actuary
HoN doesn't actually have TRUE widescreen support. On my 2560x1600, it still looks a bit stretched out and you do lose viewing area on the top and bottom while gaining only a bit on the sides. Again, this was for "balance" issues. :rolleyes:

And to warn you, HoN, like DOTA, has a huge learning curve. Unless you can get true newbie games (hardly happens, it's always someone trying to inflate their PSR or smurfing), you will be extremely frustrated because you'll get slaughtered by the other team, your teammates will yell at you and rage etc.

LoL has a match maker (You never pick and join a game, it's all automated by the match maker, however, you can make a practice game and play with friends or against bots to familiarize yourself with new heroes, etc) and a designated "Newbie Island" where you play against other newbies. Once your ELO is high enough, you will be moved out and ideally at that point, you have an idea of how to play and won't cause feeding/etc.

In summary, HoN if you're really into that hardcore tryhard mentality and can get around the flaming tryhard rageon nerds. LoL if you want a laid back casual game.

I will also warn you that LoL graphics are a big reason why it's hated on. I prefer the look but again, you may find that you don't like the graphics and can't play it. I'd compare it to the cel-shaded Zelda games Wind Waker?/DS games vs the old OOT and MM on N64.
 
Wow, wall of text. That's how riled up people get when they play games like Dota / LoL / HoN.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Wow, wall of text. That's how riled up people get when they play games like Dota / LoL / HoN.
Click to expand...

:p

I get riled up when people talk crap without any idea of what they're talking about. :D A terribly bad habit of mine. But when you're bored at work, what can I do? :cool:
 
soulesschild said:
:p

I get riled up when people talk crap without any idea of what they're talking about. :D A terribly bad habit of mine. But when you're bored at work, what can I do? :cool:
Click to expand...

I entirely agree with your statement.

I been playing HoN in some noob game, I find it to have so many pros in there other than real noob..

the only part I like about HoN over DotA is reconnect ability..
thats about it.. other than that, HoN's balance system is way to unbalance.. some hero are way too overpower..

also not noob friendly..
 
@souless

Good points on the matchmaking, I will give LoL the upper hand in matchmaking. It's much closer to the system employed by SC2, MW2, things like that. HoN still falls back onto the server/lobby structure which is good but also I think it has some downsides. Both schemas have pros/cons and hopefully someday we can find a good compromise but I really feel like this is just a preference issue.

My one issue with LoL was how easy it was. Walking into it with a very basic understanding of DoTA and HoN and having the highest score 5 games in a row confused me since it then feels like there is no room for improvement if I'm starting at the top. My experience may have been skewed, I may have been matched with newbies because my account was also new I don't know.

I also run a 16:10 monitor and have tried 1920*1080, 1600*1200, *1920*1200 and you are right. 16:9 gives the most horizontal viewing of any of those with 1920 giving the most overall space. (In HoN) I don't however understand what you are referring to with the FOV and zoom. The units are large from an artistic standpoint but... not sure what you mean. I don't doubt you but I'm not quite sure. :p

I think all 3 games have points where they shine. I love HoN to death and it will keep me happily entertained but I can understand why people would stick with LoL. The games play very differently (in a broad perspective) and you have to choose. I think comparing them is disengenious. It's like arguing about UT, Q3. Both games are the same concept but play differently enough that we all can pick our favourites.
 
HoN will have matchmaking on release. It's still in beta. All PSR arguments are null since it's just a beta stat. Obviously if it was the only rating they wouldn't call it a PSR, they'd just call it your rating.
 
HoN is great except for some balance issues with heroes. Either play BP or BD and that problem goes away.
 
Also, BP/BD solves most issues but I really have yet to see any truly OP heroes. Anyone can be beaten. Unless you are talking about EM. APEM should be reserved for lulz only.
 
Parish_Rane said:
@souless

Good points on the matchmaking, I will give LoL the upper hand in matchmaking. It's much closer to the system employed by SC2, MW2, things like that. HoN still falls back onto the server/lobby structure which is good but also I think it has some downsides. Both schemas have pros/cons and hopefully someday we can find a good compromise but I really feel like this is just a preference issue.

My one issue with LoL was how easy it was. Walking into it with a very basic understanding of DoTA and HoN and having the highest score 5 games in a row confused me since it then feels like there is no room for improvement if I'm starting at the top. My experience may have been skewed, I may have been matched with newbies because my account was also new I don't know.

I also run a 16:10 monitor and have tried 1920*1080, 1600*1200, *1920*1200 and you are right. 16:9 gives the most horizontal viewing of any of those with 1920 giving the most overall space. (In HoN) I don't however understand what you are referring to with the FOV and zoom. The units are large from an artistic standpoint but... not sure what you mean. I don't doubt you but I'm not quite sure. :p

I think all 3 games have points where they shine. I love HoN to death and it will keep me happily entertained but I can understand why people would stick with LoL. The games play very differently (in a broad perspective) and you have to choose. I think comparing them is disengenious. It's like arguing about UT, Q3. Both games are the same concept but play differently enough that we all can pick our favourites.
Click to expand...

There were screenshots on the thread I mentioned, but if you compare the unit sizes of the units in HoN to those of DOTA, they are MUCH larger. This REALLY amplifies the sort of like, my face is smashed into the ground sort of feeling. I don't notice it much in DOTA but in HoN it was like OMG nausea inducing. This also was probably amplified by the fact that I was playing on 2560x1600 and that I used to play DOTA in windowed mode.

Regarding your LoL experience, if you have DOTA/HoN experience, it should be that way. But very soon you'll enter the actual ELO pool of real players and not newbie island. So if you only played 5 -10 games, you might feel that way, but after maybe 20 games, you'll start playing with players on a similar level as you are.

LoL was designed to cater to the masses and to get new comers to the game familiar and comfortable with the game. We all know how the HoN/DOTA experience goes for new players. If my friends aren't playing with me, they rage and say how the game sucks and how everybody else is a douchebag and quit :p

@Intel

The problem with PSR is that it's viewable by all. This leads to a lot of trash talking to new players or not so good players. It used to be so bad that when I brought up an issue, such as the FoV, someone would be like, ha noob, your PSR is only 1750, you don't know shit till you're 2k PSR like me! :rolleyes: And, unless they changed it, there's still no differentiation between EM and normal games, so you have the elitist pricks who farm EM games to raise their PSR.
 
soulesschild said:
LoL was designed to cater to the masses and to get new comers to the game familiar and comfortable with the game. We all know how the HoN/DOTA experience goes for new players. If my friends aren't playing with me, they rage and say how the game sucks and how everybody else is a douchebag and quit :p
Click to expand...


Interesting on LoL, might have to give it a go. I recently got invited to HoN and while it seems like I could enjoy the game itself, the community has got to be one of the most wretched in all of gamedom. I mean it is just awful if I am not playing with friends. I still play it solo sometimes, but I renamed the shortcut Heros of NERDRAGE and generally play it muted to silence the raging on voice chat. :p A more... friendly and less spastic game of the same style would be nice!
 
2r38sid.jpg




This is what makes HoN fun
 
soulesschild said:
@Intel

The problem with PSR is that it's viewable by all. This leads to a lot of trash talking to new players or not so good players. It used to be so bad that when I brought up an issue, such as the FoV, someone would be like, ha noob, your PSR is only 1750, you don't know shit till you're 2k PSR like me! :rolleyes: And, unless they changed it, there's still no differentiation between EM and normal games, so you have the elitist pricks who farm EM games to raise their PSR.
Click to expand...

I'm aware of that, but that's a fault of the community. I've long since ignored terribads on gaming forums. As a reasonably intelligent individual, you should be able to realize that the technical / categorical pitfalls of PSR and non-em / em should be fixed by the release of the game whereas the community itself will probably never change.

And they've added an EM% count to your stats. All that's done is really induce more in game hate. Not a huge deal if you don't visit the forums though. Seems like if you want to enjoy the game, just play it and ignore all the trash talking in the forums. If someone rages in the game... well you can't really stop that.
 
Played some HoN for the first time last night, had a blast. Shame I'm so terrible, which is a little surprising, because I'm pretty good at Dota. I feel like the damage in HoN ramps up more quickly, and more heroes have spells that disable you, letting them rape you 1on1 in a matter of seconds.
 
The comparison is pretty simple

Hon is trying to reproduce dota
LoL (which is being created by a former dota maintainer Guinsoo) is trying to take the best bits of dota and make a new game.

Really, which one is making progress? Guinsoo was tried of all the limitations of the WC3 scripting engine, so he created his own game free of any limitations.

Besides I can't ever play dota anymore knowing that its impossible to map hack in lol due to server hosting all games.
 
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