League of Legends -- how many [H] regulars?

Shalafi

Fully [H]
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
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Not RP is for skins only. I think I'm going for Ryze and Singd next. I definitely need another caster, Ryze sounds fun. And Singd is just hilarious lol.

Annie is better than Ryze, her passive stun used with her ult wins team fights if you have a competent team.
 

Stiler

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
10,538
Annie has more burst-dmg, but Ryze has a LOT more sustained dmg output.

his Q can absolutely destroy a team as a team fight goes. Plus with his durability, unlike annie, you won't drop quickly if you get focused.

Most competent teams when team fighting will go after your ap carry and range carry, which in most cases they are squishy. That's what sets ryze apart from other casters and makes him unique.

He used to be like annie, a normal AP scaling glass cannon. After his massive change though he was made into less of a burst-caster an dmore of a sustained tanky caster.


His Q scales off mana + does dmg in term sof health (think of it like madreds or deathfire). on top of this, it's extremely low on cd, like 2 seconds, he also gets 1.5 seconds off all of his abilities when you use one. So ryze can spam all of his aiblities, and his Q will be off cd pretty much as fast as you can get back to it.

If you know how to play him, once you get him built, he can easily destroy an annie, who will have 0 MR usually (most go ROA/Deathcap).

I usually run ignite/flash on him. Nothing like flashing into a team fight, popping your ult (which makes your spells do AOE dmg) and destorying a team. Annie has AOE with her ult + her cone of fire, but once you blow them you have to wait on cd. With ryze you ult, and all your abilties do aoe, and you can genreally get off at least 2 q's before your ult runs out, that's uaually around 500 dmg a pop, + your hold and E ability.

Don't get me wrong, for pure AP burst dmg output, annie is better then ryze, no doubt, she's at the top with Malz. However for sustainted ap output that can keep going, Ryze is on his own, he's just a fun unique caster to play that doesn't feel like all the others.

Both are great characters, Annie is just "more of the same" if you played most other ap's though.

I had a fun game earlier tonight. I called bot graves ad, before a single pick. It got to the two picks above me (I was last) and the guy picks ashe and locks it in. Then my team rages on him about me having called bot Graves. he's like "sorry I forgot."

I told them before hand I can play mid, top, range ad, jungle, just not support, I hate support and I'm not that good with it.

So he tlels me to trade and pick a support, They have taric and the time was ticking down, So I picked sona. Then he's like "I don't have sona."

So I just had a bit of rage, I told them don't blame me if I suck. Then we got into game, and I instead of building support aura whore like most sona's, I built her ap. AA, Deathcap, etc.

In Bot lane I went 4-0, ashe complained about my ks'ing. I ended up 10-4-16 and and we won. It's hard not to KS with sona, you basically faceroll q/w/e over and over and over, you ca'nt control WHAt they hit, they just hit the nearest enemies (champions over-minions if they are near) but you can't pick who specifically to hit or whatever, so it's hard not to kill someone if you're mashing q when it's not on cd lol.
 

Shalafi

Fully [H]
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
22,950
I just played some as Jarvan and Annie last night and had some fun.

What do you guys think of the Halloween skins? I think they didn't put a lot of effort into them.
 

Stiler

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
10,538
They just seem uninteresting to me.

I don't play annie that often, nor Blitz/Nid.

Nocturne I love, but it's just a skin, there's no real new particles/effects.

I bought the Nosferatu Vlad the last halloween and was disappointed that even though he looks old, his voice is still the same. It just seems very very weird to have him look so old and then hear him talk like some 17yr old emo.

I'd prolly have bought the noc skin had they made his Q trail be green or something new.
 

Decimus

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
1,956
I just played some as Jarvan and Annie last night and had some fun.

What do you guys think of the Halloween skins? I think they didn't put a lot of effort into them.

My first thought was "Another Annie skin?". :( I like annie and all but it seems like they focus the popular champs for skins so the can sell as much as possible. I agree with Stiler though it would be a lot better if they changed something other than just the skin by adding new particles or new voices and taunts
 

Shalafi

Fully [H]
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
22,950
Like I said, it appears like they didn't put much effort into the skins, which is what makes it disappointing.

however, i LOVE Vladimir's Nosferatu skin. Stiler has it.

But yeah, all the popular champions get lots of skins.

For some reason there's a few champions (old ones, not new ones) with only 2-3 skins, yet there's a select few with 5+.
 

Shalafi

Fully [H]
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
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I'm surprised by how effective Nocturne is if you go atmas/warmogs on him, he's very tanky and hard to take down, give him frozen mallet and it's even worse, lol.
 

Stiler

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
10,538
Man, I never thought I would buy a skin not on sale, I always told myself "they'll be on sale, just wait."

However I couldn't do it. I finally broke down and bought a full priced skin at 975 rp, and it was worth it for me.

Super teemo!

lol, such an awesome skin. I love how when you push W for his move speed, sometimes (not always) a whistle plays a super hero theme, then he flies now instead of his normal walk fast, it's great.

The emotes are the same, but his walk animation, w animation, mushrooms, etc are all different as well.

I did buy 10$ riot points, intended to use it for the Jaximus skin on sale, it looks cool, but I already have Pax Jax and another one, and I just don't play him that often since all of his nerfs and the recent Gunblade nerf hurt him even more.

So I said fuck it and bought super teemo instead along with the ghostly noc ( i know I siad I wouldn't, but damnit I like noc and it will be a limited skin, so you won't see it after Halloween again). Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll change the Q color, ther'es already a huuuuge forum post on the LoL board asking for it with over 7k + votes (94%) voting to have it changed to white.
 

Shalafi

Fully [H]
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
22,950
Is it ok if I say I hate you? You have PAX Jax, which is a really sweet skin!

You're gonna make me do the same damn thing and grab Ghostly Noc.

What are the chances they actually change it though? They didn't change some of the ultimate skins for characters even after repeated threads/posts/greens for it.
 

Stiler

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
10,538
I don't know, some people think they will, i'm not expecting them to though but I bought it anyways because what the heck, I like noc and you won't see many people with it.

I have seen the nosferatu vlad skin one time since i bought it besides using him myself.

Pax Jax is a nice skin, I also have the Pax Sivir Skin and Riot nasus :D, bought them from someone on here.
 

Shalafi

Fully [H]
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
22,950
I'll be on LoL in about 4 hours if you're still up around then, I'll join a game with you.
 

Shalafi

Fully [H]
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
22,950
Remember I said Annie was better than Ryze?

I rest my case, my 2nd game tonight, perfect Annie, 12-0

zxnwxv.jpg
 

renixinq

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
439
I played Annie for the first time last night and JESUS! it's like turning it on easy mode. Two games, both where over in less than 30 and I was 8-2-6 in the first and 11-5-16 in the second. I've played Ryze a few times and really like him as well but Annie just flat murders...
 

Kabob

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
2,130
Just logged on and I have a 10 win IP boost that I definitely didn't have yesterday (and no missing RP), just me or is that for everyone?
 

Superfly3176

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
4,770
Ended up unistalling the other night, just got too frustrated.

Every melee character they make has an escape, and in a case like talon's the escape is very good. And AP casters don't get the same treatment. Seems like there's just not a lot of originality. I'll probably start again in a few months but I'm just frustrated with it right now.
 
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saedrin

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
2,125
First game ever with Jarvan (and melee DPS for that matter): 24-8-15, carried the entire team. Soooooo powerful, it's asinine.
 

Astral Abyss

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
2,985
I played 4 games yesterday with Heimer and won them all. I tried a different strat of going defensive with him instead of offensive.

Chalice (30mr)
Merc Treads (25mr)
Rylai's Crystal Scepter (500hp, 80ap)
Hourglass (50armor, 100ap)
(random item)

For my runes I was using mpen, hp/lvl, mr, and hp quints. Masteries were 9/21/0.

By building into Chalice first, mana isn't a problem. By level 18 I have over 100 armor and magic resist and almost 3000 hp. My AP is around 250. Depends on the random item I get. Several of my kills were from the other team tower diving me, thinking I was an easy kill, and getting themselves killed due to my E stun and the tower killing them since they couldn't get me down quick enough. I got a triple kill that way, which was hilarious.

I always tried to play Heimer offensive before and he just goes down too easy. He doesn't do as much damage this way, but with his stun and his turrets, if I can keep him alive it's extremely disruptive to the enemy team and I don't even need to be close to the fight.

I also max rockets first before turrets. Does a lot more damage.

Fun stuff. Dude pushes extremely hard.


Edit: I also love when we're defending a turret, I'm repairing it. Twice they gave up attacking mid turret only to have it at full health after their dives.
 
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Shalafi

Fully [H]
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Nov 6, 2009
Messages
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I should play Heimer more, he's unlike any other character in the game, he's very unique in his playstyle, because he relies so hard on his turrets and he's not very mobile because of that, BUT he's so devastating when you play him right, especially if you lead the enemy into a trap where you set up turrets in the brush.

I'm loving Graves, he's fun to play, but he moves SO slow at first.

I'm thinking I want to get move speed quints for him.
 

Stiler

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
10,538
what are some of your tips? I've played graves a few games, trying different things each time.

Graves is one of the strongest ad carries atm.

One key thing about playing him that I've seen quite a few graves players not use better when they could have, his q dmg output.

Graves Q does more dmg the closer you are, as the bullet spread lessens it, the closer to a target you can hit them with multiple bullets from your gun and do masisive dmg compared to a long range hit with q.

Build Wise, Fail has a pretty good solid graves build. IE/PHantom, then build from there what you need for hte game, be it more offensive if you can, or a defense item if you're being focused, etc. They stacking armor? Lost Whisper, Thornmail? Bloodthirster (this is the main way an ad carry beats thornmail, lifesteal. You get two of them and it stacks to 50% lifesteal when full).
 

Shalafi

Fully [H]
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
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Based off of my experience, he's one of the characters you DO actually want to buy a 2nd Doran's Blade for, unless you already have 975 gold for the Pickaxe. You need damage as soon as possible, and 2 Dorans gives him damage AND some more HP to sustain him.

I try to build Last Whisper first, unless I go on a kill streak, then I pick up the BF sword instead, but I either get a 2nd Dorans or a Pickaxe as my 2nd item.

gotta get damage on him as fast as possible. Also, don't be afraid to use his dash move to get closer to foes. When you're ready to gank, best thing to do is to dash forward, use your Q, then pop your smoke immediately behind your enemy so that if they try to go back, they can't see anything.

That's when you and your lane partner own them hhhhhhhard.
 

Shalafi

Fully [H]
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
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I'm thinking of a new way I want to play Graves.

I'm going to give him move speed quints, armor penetration marks, attack speed seals, magic resist glyphs.

He moves so floppin SLOW, so the movement speed quints will help him, if you can make Graves more mobile, then that's when he can really shine. That's why I get the Zeal on him after building my first damage item, because Zeal is cheap, gives him movement speed and some attack speed. I'm thinking that Merc Treads would be good to boost my magic resist to make me more tanky.

Sometimes if I see that the team is mostly ad on the enemy side, I go with the 180 health Ruby Crystal to start with so I can build an early Phage. It all really depends on how I want to play, but honestly, Graves is best played when you stack damage. I have had only middling success building him tanky with frozen mallet as a first item. He benefits more from the high damage output at low levels because the other team won't have enough defensive items to mitigate it.

Pickaxe first, or BF sword first, as your 2nd item, if you DO get first blood, it behooves you to just grab a 2nd Dorans so you can have a tremendous pre-lvl 6 advantage if you back after first blood. if it's past level 6, just go straight for the better items, but like a first blood at lvls 1-3, go ahead, grab that 2nd Dorans blade.

The way I do items isn't static, it changes by the game, it's just done based on my team's makeup, the other team's makeup, who my lane partner is, and who's in the enemy lane. It's just based on a wealth of experience. Once you've accumulated enough games, you won't need other people to instruct you in how to play characters, you just "KNOW" what you need to do.
 

Stiler

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
10,538
SWEET! I am so glad I bought the Haunting nocturne skin!

They just released a patch that adds new particles to the skin! I was not expecting them to do that, let alone this fast.
 

Shalafi

Fully [H]
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
22,950
Damn, I may need to get it, it's only 520 IP too. I'm at work and wont' be home for 5 hours, what kind of particle changes?
 

Shalafi

Fully [H]
Joined
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Messages
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That's pretty cool, may pick that up.

I wish I could use your account to play as PAX Jax and Nosferatu Vladimir :p
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
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45
Alright, well as many of you know AD carries are not exactly my forte, so this recent discussion on building Graves has me interested in a few things. Maybe these are stupid questions, but I'll throw them out there in case anyone wants to enlighten me or tell me that I'm bad.

First, why rush a Last Whisper? I know it's relatively cheap, but it seems to me that armor pen isn't all that useful until A) your enemies start building armor, and B) you actually have some damage to make it worthwhile. I know there's a moderate damage boost included, but it strikes me more as a second or third item behind more potent damage items like IE, Bloodthirster, or Black Cleaver that would help you farm faster/harass better. Since most people focus on damage now and survivability later I don't understand why it would be more advantageous to build damage after armor pen, especially if you are running ArPen runes. Since the flat pen is calculated first (right?), you'd be getting 40% penetration on their base armor (less than 40 in most cases, I think) minus the pen from runes/masteries (~18 or more with Quints) which is about 20 armor... so that's essentially knocking them down to 12 with LW. Rushing Brutalizer makes a little more sense to me as that would get them down to 5 armor, but really only in cases where I'd eventually want a Ghostblade.

Second, why get the Ruby Crystal if you want to rush Phage? When I play AD I usually start with a long sword and a health pot because this gives me some extra damage now and a little bit of sustain in the pot. Because the apparent objective on Graves is to get damage ASAP this looks like a stronger alternative to me. Also the crystal seems to pigeonhole you into getting that Phage, as it is the only AD oriented item that uses one. The sword would allow you to change your mind depending on what is happening once the game gets started, as it builds into things like LW, Brutalizer, or even Hexdrinker.

Third, what is the advantage to rushing Frozen Mallet as a first item? I guess I can rationalize building a Phage early, but if I wanted to build a tanky carry I would get some items with damage and resists on them. I think Wriggles is popular for this reason, and (while most people insist this is a bad item to rush) I think Hexdrinker fills a similar role, and both of these can be easily built for less than the upgrade cost from Phage to Mallet. I guess you don't have the health as soon, but shouldn't the resists counteract some of that while still increasing your damage output and farming capabilities?
 

Shalafi

Fully [H]
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Alright, well as many of you know AD carries are not exactly my forte, so this recent discussion on building Graves has me interested in a few things. Maybe these are stupid questions, but I'll throw them out there in case anyone wants to enlighten me or tell me that I'm bad.

You're far from bad.

First, why rush a Last Whisper? I know it's relatively cheap, but it seems to me that armor pen isn't all that useful until A) your enemies start building armor, and B) you actually have some damage to make it worthwhile. I know there's a moderate damage boost included, but it strikes me more as a second or third item behind more potent damage items like IE, Bloodthirster, or Black Cleaver that would help you farm faster/harass better. Since most people focus on damage now and survivability later I don't understand why it would be more advantageous to build damage after armor pen, especially if you are running ArPen runes. Since the flat pen is calculated first (right?), you'd be getting 40% penetration on their base armor (less than 40 in most cases, I think) minus the pen from runes/masteries (~18 or more with Quints) which is about 20 armor... so that's essentially knocking them down to 12 with LW. Rushing Brutalizer makes a little more sense to me as that would get them down to 5 armor, but really only in cases where I'd eventually want a Ghostblade.

You answered your own question here, It's relatively cheap. Right now, i AM running armor pen runes on my Graves build, but I try to get the Pickaxe first because it's a high damage item that's affordable, then if I'm racking up kills, I try to transition to a BF sword so I can make Infinity Edge. But the thing is, you WANT to get a Pickaxe first optimally if you're able to get some kills and some farm going, because once you start racking up kills with Graves or holding lane advantage, you NEED immediate boosts in damage, because the longer you wait to build damage, the less effective Graves becomes mid to late game. I just choose to get Last Whisper because of the immediate boost in damage, and it shreds their armor, don't forget, that they don't necessarily have to have armor items to make Last Whisper effective, all characters get a BASE amount of armor to start with, Last Whisper + my +25 in armor penetration runes shreds it to nothing and increases my damage output.

I have no idea what kind of calculations go into armor penetration, but I'm thinking of revising my runes with Graves to swapping out the armor pen runes in favor of movement quints to help him move faster, because he's slow as fuck. I will have to let you know how that works out, i'm about 500 IP away from my 3rd movement quint, then I can give good feedback on how much that helps.

Second, why get the Ruby Crystal if you want to rush Phage? When I play AD I usually start with a long sword and a health pot because this gives me some extra damage now and a little bit of sustain in the pot. Because the apparent objective on Graves is to get damage ASAP this looks like a stronger alternative to me. Also the crystal seems to pigeonhole you into getting that Phage, as it is the only AD oriented item that uses one. The sword would allow you to change your mind depending on what is happening once the game gets started, as it builds into things like LW, Brutalizer, or even Hexdrinker.

You raise a good point here, I never thought of it that way, I picked Ruby Crystal to give me 180 HP and give me a health advantage in fights at low levels. I guess Dorans would accomplish the same thing, but having RC first allows me to build that Phage faster. Sure the damage isn't all that sexy, but the slow is, it helps finish kills.

Third, what is the advantage to rushing Frozen Mallet as a first item? I guess I can rationalize building a Phage early, but if I wanted to build a tanky carry I would get some items with damage and resists on them. I think Wriggles is popular for this reason, and (while most people insist this is a bad item to rush) I think Hexdrinker fills a similar role, and both of these can be easily built for less than the upgrade cost from Phage to Mallet. I guess you don't have the health as soon, but shouldn't the resists counteract some of that while still increasing your damage output and farming capabilities?

Honestly, more good points here, I find that having that Frozen Mallet lets me have a lot of survivability, and I last long in fights, but I don't have much damage output, and if I'm the main source of AD damage, then I hurt my team by having this. But in a team with good damage, it allows me to be tanky, live longer, and slow someone who is trying to get away, and allows me to handle close quarters combat where I can use my Q to maximum effect.

I've tried playing Graves all ways, I've had success playing both kinds of styles, but I think that AD graves is better in all honesty because he can really rack up kills. But the downside is he's really fragile as a result, and if he gets focused, he's gone. Frozen Mallet Graves would likely live through those kind of fights.

He will just require more time played on him to truly master him. I'm thinking about how I should hold off on using Dash in team fights and save it as an escape or use it to close distance between someone fleeing.

My problem when I play carries, even mages, I have a weird habit of wanting to be on the front lines and doing a ton of damage.

That hurts me from time to time as a whole fight can be lost because of that.

Other times, it helps a lot when I initiate, because I set it up so the enemy team loses their most vital players before the actual team fight begins.

It's just basically an accumulation of all the wisdom I've gained from playing. I'm nowhere near as good as some players are, but I do believe in what I'm doing.
 

Stiler

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
10,538
Sweet, I played as noc to see the new particles, it's not just a different color now (sort of a white/tealish) but it also has little ghost faces rising out of it.
 

Stiler

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
10,538
So just got out of game, at the last second of character picks when we needed a RANGE ad bot with soraka, this guy goes Nasus instead.

We get in game, he complains about no one asking him to go range ad when we ask him why.

About 4 minutes in game, he diconnects and never comes back.

So many of you would assume well, GG? Right? Many of my team mates thought so, asked them to plz report in chat and surrender at 20.

Well about 15 minutes in the game I was 5-0, the akali started to pick up kills and udyr got tanky as heck too and then soraka joined in going super tanky.

We ended up winning a 4 vs 5, the main factor aside from the cho/olaf feed was the graves, who thought he was good (and he did get early feed in, he was 4-1) simply got no armor pen. He would have been extremely better for his team had he went LW or madreds, but he didn't. So we basically rolled over them in team fights, aside from Akali they simply couldn't dent us at all because of our Tankiness.

This was the finale score:

lol4v5.jpg
 
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