LCD Televisions with 4:4:4 Subsampling and low Input Lag.

Actually I'll add some other impressions now that I'm thinking about it...

The samsung UN32EH5000 had gamma shift when moving from side to side, In the end I decided that a IPS or PLS would be best as they don't suffer from that issue,

I personally ended up getting a Samsung s27b970d, which is a PLS panel. I think that the gamma shift might be a side effect of the S-PVA panel that was in my dell 2407wfp-hc and perhaps also the UN32EH5000 had some variant of PVA. I still reccomend the 5000 series as a monitor/tv as I felt outside of me being very picky (I do photo work as a hobby and gamma shift really is a killjoy for me) it's a great set!
 
Yea, all MVA and PVA panels will have some level of gamma shift to them. With S-MVA and A-MVA, it tends to be everything outside of the "viewing cone" is at a different gamma (it will all be lighter) than what is inside the "viewing cone". This can be offset by increasing the viewing distance as it will typically make the "viewing cone" larger but you're always going to see it on a 32"+ if you're sitting close to it like you would a monitor. Apparently S-PVA's "viewing cone" works a little differently though with everything outside of the "viewing cone" being a little "dimmer". All of this is made even more complex by panel variations that can lead to larger or smaller "viewing cones" even when the panel ID is the same.

I'm not a fan of the "viewing cone" (especially after using a 32" S-IPS TV) but for me, the drastic increase in black levels are worth dealing with it as my main usage is watching video. I can certainly see getting an IPS though if someone is doing anything related to digital art (especially if on e happened to wind up with a much smaller "viewing cone" on their MVA or PVA panel than they "should" have). In the end though, the center of the "viewing cone" is always going to be relative to where your head is physically located in front of the screen. That wouldn't prove problematic to me since I tend to move anything I am messing around with to the very center of the screen rather than shifting my eyes to work on something near the side or corner of the work area. However, not everyone works the same way so it's really about what you're doing and how you go about doing it. MVA and PVA panels are bound to leave a negative impression on anyone that moves around.
 
Got bored and went to BestBuy. An employee looked at every single NS-39L240A13 they had in stock (40+) and they were all rev B (as was the display). Didn't want that one as it should be the CMO panel and I would rather have the 8-bit+Hi-FRC AMO panel. Kudos on the customer service, listening to why I wanted it, not trying to talk me into something else, and not interrupting a conversation between I and another customer when they asked me about what the difference was between LCD and LED (they were short handed on employees). Been a long time since I've actually witnessed customer service and not been treated like I didn't know what I wanted and why. I'm sure he thinks it was worth his time though as the customer I was talking to wound up buying three of the NS-39L240A13.

I would have tried to hire me on the spot lol (just sayin') . . .


They had the UN32EH5000 on display but, it wasn't working so I didn't get a chance to look at it. All the boxed ones they had in stock were TS01 though so, if it ever goes on sell at least I know I can get the Samsung panel. I think the TS02 is supposed to be better but, it is what it is. The UN39EH5003 wasn't on display so, I didn't really have a way to look at a display of those lines in the size class I am after.


I was also pretty disappointed that the Nexus 7 nor the Note 10.1 were on display though. I would have thought both of them would have been on display for sure given the popularity of the Nexus 7 and the Wacom digitizer in the Note 10.1 as I was hoping to "get a feel" for them side by side to see which I would prefer as a digital sketchbook.


Oh well, wasn't planning on coming home with anything tonight anyway (though I would have bought a rev C of the NS-39L240A13 if it had actually been there).
 
Hey Guys,

How is the UE32ES6710 for a pc monitor? I got a small room and i want to combine my tv/pc into 1. How is this panel for a monitor? Does it have working working 4:4:4 or sharper colored text ? Also would the panel used in it be any good?

Thx alot ;)
 
Need some help here guys!

So i got a Samsung UA32d5000 , HDTVtest.uk and avforums.com claims this tv does
4:4:4 chroma on the hdmi 1 input labeled PC.

I have done this and it passes the magenta and red writting test but text still has the blue and red fringing. I have a Sony hx909 tv and it for certain does 4:4:4 chroma so this is very obvious when the tv can't fully do it.

I am using a gtx680 with hdmi cable. Would using a dvi to hdmi cable make this work? I know the d6000 can do 4:4:4 chroma with hdmi and audio but maybe the d5000 cant?

I dont know how to alter the edid to make this work with hdmi.

Any ideas???
 
coolhandm3 said:
Need some help here guys!

So i got a Samsung UA32d5000 , HDTVtest.uk and avforums.com claims this tv does
4:4:4 chroma on the hdmi 1 input labeled PC.

I have done this and it passes the magenta and red writting test but text still has the blue and red fringing. I have a Sony hx909 tv and it for certain does 4:4:4 chroma so this is very obvious when the tv can't fully do it.

I am using a gtx680 with hdmi cable. Would using a dvi to hdmi cable make this work? I know the d6000 can do 4:4:4 chroma with hdmi and audio but maybe the d5000 cant?

I dont know how to alter the edid to make this work with hdmi.

Any ideas???
Click to expand...
I used a HDMI -> HDMI cable and got it working fine
See post #676 in this thread:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1039065338#post1039065338

In order to get it working you have to rename the input in the tv's menu to "PC" or "PC/DVI" and set the picture size to show the full screen.
 
pwrusr said:
I used a HDMI -> HDMI cable and got it working fine
See post #676 in this thread:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1039065338#post1039065338

In order to get it working you have to rename the input in the tv's menu to "PC" or "PC/DVI" and set the picture size to show the full screen.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link!

So the tv was doing 4:4:4 correctly at first, but I think I messed around with settings on the nvidia control panel, trying RGB and the ycbr 4:4:4. This messed somthing up that no matter what I did I could not get back the 4:4:4 chroma.

So I had to do the edid override for the video card. Now it shows my hdmi connector as DVi in the nvidia control panel and 4:4:4 chroma works perfectly on the tv.

Weird that happened but oh well, it is SO much better now.

Anyway it seems that now the tv has to have the black level at low whereas before I could use it on normal and not have too dull of an image but now normal is crazy dull.
 
coolhandm3 said:
Thanks for the link!

So the tv was doing 4:4:4 correctly at first, but I think I messed around with settings on the nvidia control panel, trying RGB and the ycbr 4:4:4. This messed somthing up that no matter what I did I could not get back the 4:4:4 chroma.

So I had to do the edid override for the video card. Now it shows my hdmi connector as DVi in the nvidia control panel and 4:4:4 chroma works perfectly on the tv.

Weird that happened but oh well, it is SO much better now.

Anyway it seems that now the tv has to have the black level at low whereas before I could use it on normal and not have too dull of an image but now normal is crazy dull.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a setting with the colour range (Full 0-255 vs Limited 16-235) got changed with whatever you adjusted in the video card's control panel or after the EDI override. The "black level" setting on a TV is usually a "switch" to pick between Full 0-255 and Limited 16-235. PCs should use Full 0-255 and video sources (e.g. a DVD or a TV station) are mastered/produced/coded/transmitted as Limited 16-235. You want to set the PC to Full 0-255 and the TV at Full 0-255 (only on the input from the PC) then calibrate the TV. You'll then want to set your video player of choice on the PC to Limited (16-235) and then calibrate the video playback in either the video player's settings or the video control panel so that it looks appropriate on the TV. This allows you to have proper settings for the PC when you are using the desktop/programs and the proper settings for when you are watching video playback via the PC.
 
Racer_J said:
Got bored and went to BestBuy. An employee looked at every single NS-39L240A13 they had in stock (40+) and they were all rev B (as was the display). Didn't want that one as it should be the CMO panel and I would rather have the 8-bit+Hi-FRC AMO panel. Kudos on the customer service, listening to why I wanted it, not trying to talk me into something else, and not interrupting a conversation between I and another customer when they asked me about what the difference was between LCD and LED (they were short handed on employees). Been a long time since I've actually witnessed customer service and not been treated like I didn't know what I wanted and why. I'm sure he thinks it was worth his time though as the customer I was talking to wound up buying three of the NS-39L240A13.

I would have tried to hire me on the spot lol (just sayin') . . .


They had the UN32EH5000 on display but, it wasn't working so I didn't get a chance to look at it. All the boxed ones they had in stock were TS01 though so, if it ever goes on sell at least I know I can get the Samsung panel. I think the TS02 is supposed to be better but, it is what it is. The UN39EH5003 wasn't on display so, I didn't really have a way to look at a display of those lines in the size class I am after.


I was also pretty disappointed that the Nexus 7 nor the Note 10.1 were on display though. I would have thought both of them would have been on display for sure given the popularity of the Nexus 7 and the Wacom digitizer in the Note 10.1 as I was hoping to "get a feel" for them side by side to see which I would prefer as a digital sketchbook.


Oh well, wasn't planning on coming home with anything tonight anyway (though I would have bought a rev C of the NS-39L240A13 if it had actually been there).
Click to expand...

I bought a rev c today at bb. They had several in stock. They also had a lot of rev d, and 1rev e...
I bought the rev c based on your post, but couldn't find where you sourced the info. Where did you find it?
 
kingk said:
I bought a rev c today at bb. They had several in stock. They also had a lot of rev d, and 1rev e...
I bought the rev c based on your post, but couldn't find where you sourced the info. Where did you find it?
Click to expand...

It was sot of "pieced together" off BestBuy's Partstore site and ShopJimmy.

Based on what they had listed, the rev C uses the Insignia 6MF01001B0 mainboard and the AUO-AMVA T390HVN01.0 panel. The information for this rev has been removed from PartStore.


The rev B used the mainboard for the CMO S-MVA panel (I didn't see the panel listed there though. It used the Insignia 6MF01001C0 mainboard and the CMO S-MVA V390HJ1-L02 Rev.C1 panel. The information for this rev has been removed from PartStore.


The rev A is still listed there and has had it's parts details updated. The Insignia 6MF00301B0 mainboardl and, the AUO A-MVA T320HVN01.4 panel (same panel at Panelook). Prior to today, there werent any details on the rev A.


Based on all of that, rev A used an 8bit A-MVA panel, rev B used an 8bit S-MVA panel, rev C used an 8bit+Hi-FRC A-MVA panel, and I have no idea what rev D nor rev E used. rev A would have had the strongest contrast (4000:1 vs 3000:1) and rev C should have had the better colour and pixel speed but that's purely based off tech specs and what looks good on paper. Both A-MVA panels would have had deeper black levels than the S-MVA (based on past experience with the Westinghouse VR-37xx and the Dynex 32L230A12 though the Dynex had an actual backlight control and an extensive service menu).

Just keep in mind none of that is really set in stone as I went buy what PartStore had listed and cross referenced it with ShopJimmy. Given that PartStore is owned by BestBuy though and is the source of their repair parts for their house brands, it should be fairly solid.

The only way to know for sure what you got though is to peek in the ventilation holes on the back of the set and find the label on the mainboard and on the panel then Google them or post them here.
 
Racer_J said:
SJetski71 said:
Hey Racer!

No love for the current crop of 27" A-MVA panels i take it?

The BenQ

I noticed that NCX linked this Philips A-MVA in another thread, it can be overclocked to 75hz.
Click to expand...

My problem with the 27" offerings is the same as it was the last time I was here actively. Those damn Korean 27" 2560x1440p monitors for the same price range lol. Granted the domestic products would have an easier return/exchange and less of a warranty issue but the cost to performance ratio is lacking. To be fair, I couldn't find any pricing on the Phillips 27" (it looks to be a Euro model though). There is also the lack of the more "traditional" TV inputs on monitors in general though that keeps pushing me back to the TV market.

Plus there is the review about the Phillips when it comes to FPS games (which I don't play) which means it would more than cover my needs on the performance for games. The drawback being both it and the BenQ are LED. BenQ (in the US) also appears to have a bad support reputation and there was mention of black and colour shifts that shouldn't be taking place (as if it had TN viewing angles). Based on that, I would be more interested in the Phillips. However, it's apparently not a US model.
Click to expand...


Just wanted to do an update on this after I did some more reading today. That BenQ has been mentioned a bit over at SRK (Shoryuken) but mostly in regard to the low lag input. After looking at pictures of the black levels for it in the BenQ thread you linked, it looks as bad as a TN or IPS. There were pictures of a Samsung 2S24A650SSK in that thread though and it looks like a beast. Haven't seen a lot of data on it though but, I also haven't really researched it (other than needing to order one from out of Canada $199.99+s&h). However, it appears the Phillips 273P3QPY has made it's way to NA (273P3QPYEB) and is at TigerDirect for $285 +tax (and possibly s&h) and that's incredibly tempting (even if it is edge lit LED) based off the thread you linked to. The catch however is, it's only available from Canada (TigerDirect.ca and BestBuy.ca) as well. Given how absurd s&h costs have gotten over the years (not to mention the CAD and USD being equal now rather than the USD being worth twice as much) it looks like neither will be an option right now. It would be nice if TigerDirct's US division started carrying the 273P3QPYEB soon but, I'm not going to hold my breath. Maybe I should go wade through that BenQ thread and see what the alternatives are . . .

*edit* Looks like the 273P3QPYEB was for sale at TigerDiect's US division at some point. It doesn't come up when you search for it there though. I stumbled across the listing during a Google search for a review on it.

*edit* I just got done speaking with TigerDirect's US division and, was informed that they will not be restocking it.

*edit* TigerDirect's US division is claiming it has been discontinued.
 
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Racer_J said:
Just wanted to do an update on this after I did some more reading today. That BenQ has been mentioned a bit over at SRK (Shoryuken) but mostly in regard to the low lag input. After looking at pictures of the black levels for it in the BenQ thread you linked, it looks as bad as a TN or IPS.
Click to expand...
Huh? I'll have to re-read everything i thought i read, i was under the impression that the BenQ 27" was along the lines of 2500:1 to 3000:1 actual. I really hope you're wrong Racer because i was considering one :p.

Careful with the A-MVA competitors, from what i understand most of them have noticeable overshoot with certain colors. It may be tolerable with certain models as it supposedly is with the BenQ.
 
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SJetski71 said:
Huh? I'll have to re-read everything i thought i read, i was under the impression that the BenQ 27" was along the lines of 2500:1 to 3000:1 actual. I really hope you're wrong Racer because i was considering one :p.

Careful with the A-MVA competitors, from what i understand most of them have noticeable overshoot with certain colors. It may be tolerable with certain models as it supposedly is with the BenQ.
Click to expand...

Yea, I'm trying to cross reference what I can at TFT Central, PRAD, SRK, etc. I wish I was wrong too but, there were some really bad pictures of it in that thread. Can't recall who posted them. BenQ's US branch is also apparently pretty piss poor at customer service based off one user's experience with them and the AMA (overdrive) going out in his unit. Some people are claiming BenQ cherry picked samples to send out for reviews and others are claiming people are using Limited (16-235) when they should be running Full (0-255) and vice versa. Some people kept theirs, others returned them.

To be fair, i was also reading about the 24" version while I was in there and apparently there is a model refresh coming out as well which is the GW2x60 line. The 27" version of that is supposed to lack the PWM but some of the 24" ones still have it.

Overall, there was enough in that thread to turn me off from the monitor which sucks because, it's down to around $150 or so and the Philips 273P3QPY is only available in Canada now as well as the Samsung 2S24A650SSK (which is still pretty pricey). I might be willing to try the BenQ but no one has it locally. I guess I could try to get OfficeMax's site to price match TigerDirect or Amazon on it which would allow for a speedy local return. I guess I could also just go to OfficeMax as well and make them special order it with a price match if they won't online. However, it's still a 14 day return window there and now they've added a restocking fee clause (but I'm sure that's not set in stone as nothing ever is there). That's a lot to go through though for something I'm not totally sold on. In the end there just aren't a lot of recent 24" or 27" A-MVA monitors out there (or at least accessible ones).


I swear I have the worst timing possible when it comes to shopping for a display . . .
 
I may give the Dell S2440L a shot. Wish it was a 27" but, it is what it is (the 24" is the only one in that line that is A-MVA). Looks like around 5ms-6ms avg on the input lag, performance similar to the BenQ GW2460 and the Dell UH2311HM (which is what I have) in PixPerAn, black levels at .04, A-MVA panel, etc. Downside is it has a bit of a darker overshoot than the other monitors and there doesn't look to be a way to adjust the AMA (overdrive) to reign in the overshoot a bit. There is also a panel lottery when it comes to having PWM (though it looks to be overseas and not an issue in the US). It's on sale for $219.99 at TigerDirect and is in stock locally at BestBuy so a price match shouldn't be an issue. There is no way in hell that I am going there this weekend though lol. I'll also be tied up all of next week so it looks like I won't be making a purchase or looking at demos until after the 4th of January. At least yall won't get crit by my walls of text for a little over a week though.


Time to go back to wading through the Dell S-Line Screens - S2740L, S2440L, S2340M, S2340L, S2240M thread . . .



*edit* Then again maybe I won't, as some of them have horrible overshooting with just the mouse pointer . . .
 
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Racer, BenQ is rolling out two new lines in January, both are A-MVA and i believe both come in the 24" and 27" size. There are two different backlights on them, which means they are likely slightly different variants with different specs and capabilities. The previous 27" Benq's have gone on sale for between $2xx to $279 shipped so we can cross our fingers. You can read a little more about them in the giant BenQ thread from post # 605 onwards. It also looks like Samsung threw it's hat into the A-MVA ring for 2013 (post # 610).

Can't wait for the reviews and opinions to roll in, i'll keep my wallet closed in the meantime.

PS: from what i surmise, the 2012 BenQ's we were discussing seem to be suffering from firmware issues, possibly more than one, and there were three revisions which offered plenty of opportunity to muck things up. Some of the osd menu settings may have been mislabeled, and if true, that means you would have to guess and test every setting. I do not know if anything major was addressed in the latest revision.
 
Yea, allegedly the GW2760 monitors are all supposed to be PWM free and are advertised/marketed as such. I was under the impression it was staying IPS (but that was honestly just an assumption based on the GW2750). *edit* The GW2750 and GW2760 are A-MVA. I got them mixed up with Dell's new "S" line. I think there are mixed results with the GW2460 and PWM just like there are with the GW2450.

Unless there is a blowout on the UN32EH5000 (Amazon is already down to around $385) before those come out (or a blowout on the S440L) I will likely be holding off to see how they perform or if something new comes along. It's a shame IPs has such poor black levels (in a dark room) because there are so many 27" (1920x1080) IPS monitors out right now that are fairly "cheap". Black levels on an IPS are great with a light source in front of the panel but with that gone, it's all </3 lol. I'll be hanging onto the U2311HB as there is no point in getting rid of it since it will come in handy for multi tasking and when I need to see things at a certain size (like an 11"x17" image scaled 1:1 since it has an 11.25"x20" panel).


*slightly off topic but a detailed breakdown of what I just said*

The biggest issue is I am pretty much getting ready to buy three displays (an A-MVA monitor/TV, a cell upgrade, and a 13.3" convertible tablet PC) and all of their usage overlaps so much. I was looking at the Note II but, 5" is really too small to do any art on and the convertible tablet PC will be able to do more given that it's a windows environment and not an Android OS. Well really, it's just the phone and the convertible tablet PC that will overlap in usage since they are both touchscreen and you can run Android apps on a Windows OS using BlueStacks. The convertible tablet PC has a Wacom digitizer in it which means the Note II will just be a total waste unless the convertible tablet PC isn't around. I had considered the GT-N8000 (the international unlocked GSM version of the Note 10.1) since it can be used to make GSM voice calls but at that price ($500+), I would be better off just using the convertible tablet PC and any random cell phone. Granted the GT-N8000 would be new and under warranty but, the cost to performance ratio just isn't there like it is on $200 - $300 convertible tablet PC that's 2+ years old (especially when some of those have an i5 CPU).

To be fair, the Note 10.1 models do have 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity compared to the 255 levels in the older convertible tablet PCs but they both have a resolution of 1280x800 and the level increase just isn't that big of a deal for almost twice the cost. It's really a shame as I was looking forward to getting either the Note II or the Note 10.1 but neither purchase can be justified from my situation. I still need to find a new phone but it's tricky to find one that isn't total overkill yet is new enough to run 4.1+JB (as there is no point getting something old and that will choke). I probably should have grabbed a SIII when everyone was practically giving them away on contract. It would be nice if providers gave a damn about actually retaining people though as it's gotten to the point to where no one cares if you leave for another carrier.


Let's see what January brings . . .
 
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livefastdieyoung said:
the gw2750 is a-mva.
Click to expand...

I would have sworn I saw it listed as IPS. Guess I got it mixed up the new Dell "S" line or something similar. Too much research on TVs, monitors, phones, and convertible tablet PCs done all at the same time has fried my brain. Guess I should go back over the BenQ thread then and read on the GW2750 instead of skimming.

Thank you for the correction. I've edited my post to reflect it.
 
I picked up one of the 39" Insignia's on sale at BB today for $279. I checked all the boxes they had and found all Rev.D...which I got....and one Rev E. The mainboard on the Rev.D is 6MF01001C0.

So far I am pleased. I tried the tests listed at the beginning of the thread for 4:4:4 subsampling and they looked good to me. I tried to take a picture to post on the thread but my digital camera is awful. The text looks good on websites...etc. Overall it looks at least as good, if not better than the 28" Hanns-G it replaced, and runs alot cooler. Once my video card gets back from RMA I'll really put it through its paces gaming wise.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. Thanks to all the posters in the thread. I definitely wouldn't have pulled the trigger on this thing if this thread didn't exist.
 
Bought a Samsung LN40E550 for my parents and I did do a quick test after I had it setup for them.

I connected my Dell Vostro with Intel HD3000 GPU HDMI to HDMI1 on TV and 'chose' the label PC or PC-DVI and instantly I could properly read the texts and all looked nice and sharp and it was pixel to pixel... no overscanning or zoom adjustments needed.

I couldn't test for 4:4:4 but just from eyeing' it.. it looked damned sharp and clear to me.

Plus I don't have any macro capable camera to capture it closely.
 
This is for Racer or anyone else that has/had a LG 32CS560 TV.


I just picked up this LG unit a few days ago, have it connected via DVI-HDMI cable to the TV, applied the edid registry hack and pass all 4:4:4 chroma sampling tests. After adjusting for desktop/game use the TV is working great for a monitor as people have mentioned. I have also updated to the latest firmware.

The question I do have is, I have not yet seen this studdering problem while watching HD movie content. Is it only from blue ray source? Or any? Ive tried some blu rays hooked up via hdmi2, and also played 1080p mkv files from my pc and have not seen this studder problem people have mentioned.

Is there something specific that will trigger this? Or may have it been fixed from a firmware update?

Either way, this TV looks great in my eyes.

Thanks
 
Does anyone know if the LG 37LH30 lcd supports 4:4:4? Also where can I see once I do the override if my TV passes 4:4:4? Are there any images to test with?

Thanks! :)
 
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Does anyone get headaches or eye fatigue when sitting ~3-4 feet away from the tv? I bought a 32" vizio and am experiencing that right now. It doesn't do 4:4:4 so I'm wondering if that has anything to do with headaches or eye strain.
 
pwrusr said:
Sounds like that's your problem right there :(
I'd take it back if you can (within the return period) and get one that does 4:4:4.
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be because I'm sitting too close to the tv? I was considering just downgrading in size and buying an ips monitor instead.
 
Sorry, been out of town for over a week (and thus off the grid as well).


Sturmangriff said:
I picked up one of the 39" Insignia's on sale at BB today for $279. I checked all the boxes they had and found all Rev.D...which I got....and one Rev E. The mainboard on the Rev.D is 6MF01001C0.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. Thanks to all the posters in the thread. I definitely wouldn't have pulled the trigger on this thing if this thread didn't exist.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting the mainboard you had in your rev D. I assumed it was using the CMO panel but now I know for sure. Glad to hear you are happy with the purchase. I probably would have snagged one at that price as well as $279 is dirt cheap for that set (even if people want to bash on the brand).




mgould73 said:
This is for Racer or anyone else that has/had a LG 32CS560 TV.

The question I do have is, I have not yet seen this studdering problem while watching HD movie content. Is it only from blue ray source? Or any? Ive tried some blu rays hooked up via hdmi2, and also played 1080p mkv files from my pc and have not seen this studder problem people have mentioned.

Is there something specific that will trigger this? Or may have it been fixed from a firmware update?
Click to expand...

My advice, don't look for it unless you want to be sure it's not going to be an issue should you ever notice it. It's not something you can unsee and you will notice it every single time once you do see it (even on other sets that you might not have noticed improper pulldown on in the past).

If you absolutely just have to know though, put in a copy of "Peter Jackson's King Kong" (I used the 480i DVD version) and then go into the menu and find the chapter/title where The Venture (the cargo ship) is leaving NY (New York). The Venture will be out in the ocean with the NY skyline behind it. The camera will then pan to the right so watch the skyline for any stuttering/juddering/juttering/jittering. The camera also pans to the left when looking out the window then down when looking at the poster on the wall in the Scene with Bruce Baxtor inside his "stateroom" inside The Venture. "The Fifth Element" also has a quite a few scenes where the camera pans.

That's all you really need to see it. You just need a scene where an object is staying stationary and the camera is panning left or right or down or up. Just picture scrolling up or down or left or right on a webpage, or an image to large to fit on your screen if you are having problems imagining what panning looks like. The stutter/judder/jutter/jitter will only show up on video footage that was shot/processed at 24fps (DVD, Blu-ray, etc.) when the camera is panning.

Keep in mind that if you have ever seen display fake 120Hz+ (which is done via image interpolation), any video source is going to look little "choppy".


All that having been said, you recently bought the set and have upgraded firmware in addition to that. It's possible they corrected the issue. There was mention of additional settings in the menu on the larger sets in the xxCS560 line over in a thread at AVS that were added to correct the stutter/judder/jutter/jitter issue. There are two sliding bars but, I do not recall what they are labeled or what sub-menu they are in. If the 32CS560 recieved that update and those settings actually work, then it would be an incredible buy for a 32" S-IPS to use as a monitor. I would love to hear back if your menu has these settings in it because, it would remove the largest flaw (and really the only one besides the stripped down TV menu) it had.

I actually almost picked one up recently to see if they had corrected the issue but I already have a Dell U2311HB (e-IPS) and I was shopping for an A-MVA or S-PVA display because I need the darker black levels.




AZNBoiOnFIYA said:
It wouldn't be because I'm sitting too close to the tv? I was considering just downgrading in size and buying an ips monitor instead.
Click to expand...

That could factor in as well as sitting to close will strain your eyes. For what it's worth, I didn't have an issues sitting maybe an arm's length (roughly 2.5 ft) away from the 32" and 37" TVs I tried last year that did 4:4:4 but, that's subjective as everyone and their eyesight are different. Then again, I can see the pixels on a 23" 1080p display so, I would venture to guess that at this point in time, I don't have any issue with needing to strain if something is sharp and in focus. The sets I tired that wound up not having 4:4:4 were "irritating" to say the least. Again though, it's all very subjective . . .
 
My LG 37LH30 passes the quick and dirty test for 4:4:4. I did the edid overide and it worked. Should I be concerned with passing the other tests if the quick and dirty works after the overide? One of the main things I noticed after doing the override was that the HD/SD area in my nV control panel is gone. Now it's only PC and 1920x1080 is native. The fix worked!

Thanks! :)
 
I decided to break down on my way back into town earlier today and picked up a UN32EH500. I had BestBuy price match Amazon on it for $378.38 (+tax). All they had at two locations were the TS01 revisions and I gave up on finding a TS02.


Panel:

This is a fairly "glossy" display but it's not full on glossy/mirror. I can see a lot of "details" if it's off and I'm looking at it with a light source in front of it but, things like the reflection of your eyes are blurred. At the same time though, it's glossy enough to show the full reflection of a fluorescent twist bulb (5k, 16w) while diffusing the light so it doesn't hurt like it would if you stared directly at the bulb. This isn't an issue for me but, I figured it could be for others.


Text:

I absolutely hated the text quality until I disabled "ClearType" as it was messing with the subpixels which resulted in a orange/yellow fringing or blurred text. I could never settle on anything that was acceptable. The text was "so-so" until I went into the TV menu and adjusted the sharpness to the proper level at around 20 (for text anyway as I'm sure I will have to alter it again to dial in the gamma later/had to drop it to 5). It's still a bit off and I have a hunch it's because I have a TS01 (which is supposed to be the Samsung S-PVA panel) since it's a split pixel panel. I just don't recall the text being this fuzzy last year. Viewing distance is likely in play as well. On the plus side, you can get the same quality when using DVI>HDMI regardless of what you name the input (provided you change some settings) which keeps you from locking out most of the options in the TV menu that lock out when you name it "PC" or "DVI PC". Overall though, I'm not sure I can get used to the text but, I'll give it a few days. I may also need ot run back through the registry and disable all the "ClearType" settings like I did last year.


Black Levels:

On an all black screen, I'm somewhat disappointed compared to an A-MVA panel. However, looking at a "normal" screen such as here on [H]ard|Forum, the black background is fairly close to the colour of the bezel without any bias/ballast lighting in a room with no light source at night. You can tell where the bezel is but, that's pretty impressive for a non A-MVA panel compared to the S-MVA panels I had last year. I wouldn't call it "inky black" like I would on an A-MVA panel but, I swear my Dell U2311HM (e-IPS) is weeping in the corner as a result of feelings of inadequacy when it comes to black levels. The black level separation on "Casino Royal" (the 2006 remake) is equal to if not better than the Dynex DX-32L230A12 was though the black levels aren't as dark.

To be fair, the UN32EH5000 has a much less noticeable "viewing cone" than the TVs I looked at last year. It's there and obviously the gamma shifts for anything outside of it but it's not quite as stark as the A-MVA and S-MVA panels were. That's especially true compared to the A-MVA panel since those have an incredibly high contrast ratio within the "viewing cone" compared to anything outside of it. I think this S-PVA panel is a nice median between those and an IPS panel.


Backlight:

This is really "overpowered". Due to my lighting conditions (at night and no lighting), I had to drop the setting down to 0 in order to get the darkest black level possible. Perhaps I can get it a bit deeper if i go play in the service menu. The backlight turns off when a video "fades to black" and I don't see a way to disable it (apparently naming the input to PC or DVI PC disables this). It's pretty "jarring" and showcases how much light comes through when none would appear to come through on an A-MVA panel. I don't see any clouding or backlight bleed though I didn't expect to given that the UN32EH5000 is Direct lit LED (the LEDs run in u-shaped patterns like CCFL does).


Contrast:

This may be a little "underpowered" given that I had to drop the backlight all the way down. I've had to turn it up to 100 (the max) but perhaps the service menu can give a bit more as would like a little more separation in the black levels under 4% on the Vanity.DK page (yea I know, picky consumer is picky).


Brightness:

This was tricky as anything below 50 caused the black levels under 4% to muddy a bit and, 50+ caused the white levels at 253+ to clip (again, picky consumer is picky). Ideally I would like this at about a 45 to get the black level a bit lower but, tradeoffs always have to be made between the deepest of blacks and some very mild crush at levels most people wouldn't be viewing anyway.


Colour:

They seem a bit "dim/dingy/pale" here on [H]ard|Forum compared to the Dell U2311HM and desaturated compared to my Samsung Note (which has no adjustments when it comes to image settings). Then again, this is probably related to running a colour profile for the Dell U2311HM in Windows. Actually, typing that out makes me feel lkie a complete dumbass as changing back to the default Windows colour profile has cleaned up the black level separation letting me drop the Brightness down to 45. It doesn't help that I have gotten used to staring at the Samsung Note for the past week which is likely oversaturated. I was also staring at an old 27" 4:3 CRT from Sanyo the past week as well. Movies (especially "The Fifth Element" and "Casino Royal" (the 2006 remake)) are gorgeous though played back through both the PC and the Pioneer DV-250.


Gamma:

It looks OK for a rough eyeball tune but, the white at 48% and the grey at 25% on the Lagom test page are both way too high (numerically lower 1.8 and 1.9 respectively) than they should be. The gamma is already set to a -3 in the TV menu so it looks like I will need to adjust this via the video card control panel or via a windows profile (or even the "QuickGamma" program).


Movies:

There seems to be a bit of choppiness with camera panning but, it may be the actual source material (or even the playback device) rather than something with the display. For example, the scene in "Peter Jackson's King Kong" with The Venture out in the ocean and the NY skyline behind it with the camera panning to the right has some stutter/judder/jutter/jitter when being played back on the PC. However it has none when being played back through the Pioneer DV-250. Both it and the PC have issues with the posters in Bruce Baxter's stateroom later in the movie though. I have also gotten very used to the image interpolation that SVP (SmoothVideo Project) does on the PC so it's really hard to judge what is a flaw in the filming, the playback device, and how spoiled I have gotten from image interpolation (barring something that actually looks differently on different displays or playback devices).


Games:

I've let my WoW subscription lapse (due to PvP being a train wreck right now) so I can't really test it at "high speed". Screwing around on a trial account though, I have mixed feelings. It feels like it doesn't perform as well as the Dell U2311HM (which isn't too shocking given that the Dell has overdrive in it. In the PixPerAn program, the UN32EH5000 looks to have equal rise and fall times but they are pretty noticeable and the streak test with the car is pretty blurry giving the appearance of an overshoot and an undershoot at the same time (though neither are "dark"). To be fair, I was able to read the "readability test up to a tempo of 11 (failed on a tempo of 12). At the same time though, text was fairly hard to read by the time I got to a tempo of 6. Even though I was able to read at a higher tempo than the other displays i tried last year, I think overall the UN32EH5000 is at the bottom rung of pixel response time and "blurring". I will hook up my PS2 tomorrow and look at GT4 and some of my Street Fighter games. I will also hook up an xbox 360 and look at a few FPS games on it and see how bad the ghosting actually is.


PC (DVI>HDMI) Settings (01.02.2013):

Picture:

Mode = Film

Backlight = 0
Contrast = 100
Brightness = 45
Sharpness = 5
Color = 47
Tint = 50/50


Advanced settings:

Color Space = Auto
White Balance = (not adjusted, everything is at 25)
Gamma = -3
Dynamic Contrast = OFF
Black Tone = OFF
Flesh Tone = 0
Motion Lighting = (locked out)


Picture Options:

Color Tone = Warm 2
Size = Screen Fit
Digital Noise Filter: = Off
HDMI Black Level: = Low
Film Mode = (locked out)
LED Motion Plus = Off


Setup:

Game mode = OFF

Eco Solution:
Energy Saving = OFF
Eco Sensor = OFF (this is essentially local dimming where you set the backlight to the minimum it should be in the darkest lighting condition and then you would set your regular backlight setting to the level you need for the brightest lighting condition)
No Signal Power OFF = 15 min (lowest it can go)
Auto Power Off = OFF (locked to a 4 hour time limit)


Input:

HDMI1/DVI = Input name label isn't set to anything
Click to expand...



Initial impression:

I have mixed feelings and I'm trying really hard not to go all "OMG games on a 32" display vs a 23" display" especially since there are A-MVA monitors in both the 24" and 27" size classes that likely do a better job with motions in games. I'm not quite sure if this will be a keeper but, I did just get back in town and haven't really had a chance to go back over the settings, play with game mode on over the DVI>HDMI connection, play games on the PC with the input label set to PC, etc. I'll mess around with it tomorrow and probably throughout the week to give it a fair shot and see what kinks can and can not be worked out. The "soft" text and PixPerAn really have me on the fence but, I am overly critical of displays since my experience with the LG 32CS560 and my eyes have not had time to adjust to the UN32EH5000 yet.



P.S. I absolutely hate the remote. my thumb (from the tip to its first joint) damn near covers up the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ,6, 7, 8, 9, -, 0, and PRE-CH at the same time. The enter key is in the middle of the individual directional cross and the small size of the remote combined with the size of my hand has me mashing the "INFO", "EXIT" and other buttons when trying to navigate the TV menu and it fills me with rage and makes me want to yell "HULK SMASH!!!1" . . .
 
jarablue said:
My LG 37LH30 passes the quick and dirty test for 4:4:4. I did the edid overide and it worked. Should I be concerned with passing the other tests if the quick and dirty works after the overide? One of the main things I noticed after doing the override was that the HD/SD area in my nV control panel is gone. Now it's only PC and 1920x1080 is native. The fix worked!

Thanks! :)
Click to expand...

I'm personally not a fan of the quick and dirty test. I would at least do the BSPVette test to see how the red, green, and blue lines look just to be certain. That's the baseline test I use when checking a display and then I will go through the other test images for the benefit of others if it's an "untested" display. It's really up to each person though.
 
How and where do I run the BSPVette test? Nevermind found it..kinda confusing.
 
Last edited:
On the quick and dirty test both words, red and magenta were very blurry. Now after running the fix both of those words are very clear.

I am assuming it worked since the words were blurry before and now they aren't.
 
jarablue said:
On the quick and dirty test both words, red and magenta were very blurry. Now after running the fix both of those words are very clear.

I am assuming it worked since the words were blurry before and now they aren't.
Click to expand...

If you noticed a visible difference, it likely worked (as it would have stayed the same had it not). The other tests are just to be certain, and really won't help anyone else out unless a camera with a macro lens is used to take a picture of the display with the test images displayed.
 
Looks like the service menu on the UN32EH5000 is a bit pointless. The "Type" line is missing so there is no way to confirm your panel type via the service menu which leaves opening the display up as the only positive identification method (due to the low amount of vents and all the shielding). The "Advanced" section appears to be locked out as you can move the cursor down to select it but, it won't open up like the other sub-menus do.

I also need to point out that entering the service menu erases all of your TV menu settings adjustments you have made which was fairly irritating as nothing was done in the menu other than looking around.


I decided to change some settings today though which resulted in a gamma correction, brighter whites, etc. I don't think it's cleaned up camera movement in WoW though and it certainly didn't clean up the stationary spin movement. To be fair, I was running the U2311HM at 72Hz though and the UN32EH5000 is running at 60Hz. I haven't had a chance to sit down and test the PS2 or the 360 yet but, I will report back on those later. Again, this all from an eyeball tune and subjective.

PC (DVI>HDMI) Settings (01.3.2013) Input label set to PC:

Picture:

Mode = Standard

Backlight = 2
Contrast = 95
Brightness = 45
Sharpness = 47
Color = (locked out)
Tint = (locked out)


Advanced settings:

Color Space = (locked out)
White Balance = (not adjusted, everything is at 25)
Gamma = 0
Dynamic Contrast = (locked out)
Black Tone = (locked out)
Flesh Tone = (locked out)
Motion Lighting = (locked out)


Picture Options:

Color Tone = Warm 1 (This looks a little cool but it fixed a colour clipping issue from 95% to 100% on red, orange, magenta, and fuchsia with the contrast at 100. I may have been running the U2311HM a little too red though.)
Size = 16:9
Digital Noise Filter: = (locked out)
HDMI Black Level: = Normal
Film Mode = (locked out)
LED Motion Plus = (locked out)


Setup:

Game mode = (locked out)

Eco Solution:
Energy Saving = OFF
Eco Sensor = OFF (this is essentially local dimming where you set the backlight to the minimum it should be in the darkest lighting condition and then you would set your regular backlight setting to the level you need for the brightest lighting condition)
No Signal Power OFF = 15 min (lowest it can go)
Auto Power Off = OFF (locked to a 4 hour time limit)


Input:

HDMI1/DVI = PCI
Click to expand...
 
UN32EH5000 Update

Gamma:

I had to adjust the gamma in QuickGamma (as I do not have access to equipment) since the yellow gamma was pretty far off from the rest. According to the Logom gamma page the yellow at 48% was around 2.6 while the red and blue were around 2.2 but the white at 48% is around 2.0 to 2.1 and I'm sick of screwing around with it for right now. The green at 25% is around 2.4 and around 2.3 at 10% which leads me to believe the yellow and blue aren't quite right (hooray eyeball tuning).


Video Playback:

I had some stutter/judder/jutter/jitter/etc. where there shouldn't have been any via playback on the PC via MPC HCE (media player classic home cinema edition). I have mine set up differently than most people would though as I have SVP installed. My MPC HCE takes a DVD MPEG2 and outputs it as YV12 via ffdshow video decoder then it takes the YV12 (uncompressed) and outputs it as NV12 via ffdshow video decoder raw. All I had to do was go into the fddshow video decoder raw settings, check the box for AVI Synth, and then select "Apply Pulldown". That made the playback match what I saw via the PS2 and the Pioneer DV-250.

It appears any remaining stutter/judder/jutter/jitter/etc. is a result of the source being at 24 FPS and, the fact that I have seen what image interpolation looks like. Sadly, you just can't unsee the "choppiness" of 24 FPS on a camera pan after you have seen image interpolation. When comparing playback of a DVD via the PS2 on both the UN32EH5000 and the Toshiba 34HF85 (which is a CRT), the footage on camera pans behaves the same way which leads me to believe the UN32EH5000 is handling the pulldown the best it can on 24 FPS content (assuming the Toshiba is as well). Image interpolation will remove any of the remaining stutter/judder/jutter/jitter/etc. but, that is only via the PC with SVP (SmoothVideo Project) and you need it set to adaptive or uniform and that will result in the "soap opera" effect (e.g. making it look like a "live" recording or play). I doubt this is anything someone would notice though if they have never seen image interpolation and for the sake of clarity it's not like the 32CS560 (which was unwatchable though I didn't know about SVP at the time) I had at its launch was. The 32CS560 I had exhibited stutter/judder/jutter/jitter/etc. on the PS2, Pioneer DVD-250, and via the PC that was not present on the Toshiba 34HF85 nor the UN32EH5000.

There is a bit of a catch though and I have a hunch it is related to the pixel response time. If you were to start watching Transformers: Dark of the Moon, there is a scene at the start where the camera pans down showing some "structures/scaffolding" on Cybertron in the shape of a honeycomb. These "structures/scaffolding" will "flicker" during the pan and it's fairly distracting. It appears to be a type of "ghosting" related to the pixel response time as this "flicker" is not present on the Toshiba 32HF85 (which is a CRT). The "flicker" still occurs on the UN32EH5000 via the PC even with SVP set to adaptive or uniform so, it is not related to stutter/judder/jutter/jitter/etc. nor to it being 24 FPS content. It's just something with how the UN32EH5000 panel (TS01) handles pixel response and transition times. I do not see a way to fix it nor subdue it so, keep this in mind if you are considering purchasing this set.

All in all, movies appear to "move" as well as they did on the Toshiba 34HF85 but with the added benefits of not needing to warm up, better black levels (since the UN32EH5000 can go lower without crushing), the lack of potential blooming, the lack of shadow banding over HDMI, and no geometry issues. The Toshiba 32HF85 was really good at colour and the UN32EH5000 meets or exceeds it while being more accurate. To be fair, I could probably dial in the colour on the Toshiba 34HF85 better to get the yellows a bit less orange. However, there is also a "blue" that shows up in the black on "300" in various scenes when watching it on the PC and at first I thought it was a colour balance issue as it was resolved turning the Blue Offset down to 22 from 25. After correcting the blue gamma in Quick Gamma to compensate for that change though, it was back so I think it's from setting the brightness a bit too high in MPC HCE. It's also present on playback via the PS2 and DV-250 if the brightness is too high on the UN32EH5000. Not a big deal but just thought that I would point out that some 480i content may require you to run your brightness at a slightly lower level which could result in your black levels clipping at 17 to 18 rather than 16 on the AVS HD 709 test patterns.

Also, make sure that you have the Digital Noise Filter set to "OFF". Setting it to low can smooth out some of the stuff on a 480i DVD but, it will blur stuff you don't want blurred like the details on Sam's Jacket when he meets Carly in "Transformers: Dark of the Moon". Having any form of Digital Noise Filter on will make his jacket look like an untextured piece of cloth which it isn't. I also had to turn my sharpness up to a 35 when using the PS2 or Pioneer DV-250 to get the UN32EH5000 to match the clarity of the Toshiba 34HF85 but, both of those are using Component cables (YPbPr). On your PC, you will need to look in the video quality settings of your video card's control panel and make sure the edge-enhancement, noise, etc. settings are also at the correct levels. I had to turn the De-Noise setting off in my ATi/AMD control panel in order to see the texture on the jacket ( I didn't try adjusting the slider for it) and I turned the edge-enhancement up to 20 from 15. Turning that down to 0 will reduce the "flicker" some on certain panning scenes but, it blurs out details like the texture of the jacket.


PS2:

This looked just absolutely terrible on games (it was a pix-elated mess and blurry when there was no motion). The UN32EH5000 does not handle upscaling of 480i games on the PS2 well at all and even GT4 looked really bad. However, an emulator on the PC playing your actual PS2 discs looks stunning as it has it's own upscaler built in which is full of various settings. If you want to play PS2 games on this, you're going to have to use an emulator unless you don't mind staring at something that looks just awful. There may also be some sort of splitter/add-on box/upscaler that you can purchase which would solve the image quality issues and avoid the need of setting up an emulator, needing to dump your PS2 BIOS, dealing with the pitfalls of dealing with an emulator (such as legality/incompatibility/sound issues/accuracy/etc.), and so forth. A very early PS2 (the 40g or 60g versions) may also be a workaround but, I think the overall consensus on the search results were that the upscaling for PS2 games on those was still lackluster.


Input lag:

I don't have a way to accurately measure this and I don't really want to keep using the "flawed/inaccurate" stopwatch method. I may run it later though since the input lag of the Dell U2311HM is actually known and they both have the same resolution. It obviously won't be accurate but, it will at least give somewhat of an idea.

That being said, I don't see any sort of input lag playing "Contra" nor on "Punch-Out" via the NES emulator I have on the PC. Something feels "off/delayed" when going to walk forward or backward on "Street Fighter II Turbo Hyper Fighting Edition" via the SNES emulator I have on my PC but there is no delay when attacking, crouching, jumping, etc. so it may be something with the animation or emulation. I really need to grab a copy of Street Fighter IV or Street Fighter IV CE for the PC or the 360 to get a better feel for how it does with fighting games.


Other thoughts:

I still haven't had a chance to borrow the 360 yet but, I'll report back more about input lag, ghosting, etc. once I have the chance to grab it and look at some FPS and fighting games on it.

Thus far, it's not a perfect set but then neither is any other set (barring the DX-32L230A12 which I never got to put through the ringer and owned prior to seeing image interpolation). At this juncture I would say the major flaw would be the "flicker" for certain scenes I described above in the video playback section. After that, we get into the minor perfectionist nitpicks about wishing it was just as dark on black levels as A-MVA (which would bring a far more obvious "viewing cone"), had a 10 point calibration setting, actually having detailed settings to adjust in the service menu, not having a tiny remote, having to sit farther away than I want to (for text clarity/PPI), etc.

Like everything, you will get better results if you put some time and effort into the setup. Had i not done so, I would have quickly written the UN32EH5000 off as inferior to the Toshiba 34HF85 in every way except the geometry, better black levels, potential for blooming, and lack of shadow banding over HDMI. As it stands now, the only thing the Toshiba 34HF85 does better is the lack of "flicker" on certain panning scenes and natively upconverting 480i content. That's why I try to put in a good deal of time and effort into a set before I write it off rather than going "oh it sucks out of the box or with minimal effort so it has to go back".

The Toshiba 34HF85 is also likely better at movement in games but, that has not been confirmed as I can see ghosting on the Toshiba 34HF85 with the arrows ( I can see 2 to 3 at a time as they pulse left to right) on the PS2's softmod screen. The same screen on the UN32EH5000 doesn't have multiple arrows but, you can see a bit of a bloom (for the lack of a better word and it's likely an issue with transition time) around them and they don't entirely hold their shape as they move (the very edge of the points look as though they are flapping like a wing) which indicates some pixel smear (or multiple frames stacked on each other like in PixPerAn). That could also be related to how poorly the UN32EH5000 upscales content though and I'm not sure how to "softmod" the PS2 emulator I have (as it doesn't need to be done) in order to view this screen on it. Hooking up a 360 on both over HDMI should showcase the differences in a fair manor though (ignoring the shadow banding at the top of the screen on the Toshiba 34Hf85 and assuming the upconversion on the 360 looks good on the UN32EH5000). I think they will both have their faults with movement and that each will show it in different ways (e.g. multiples of sharper images on the Toshiba 34HF85 and some smearing on the UN32EH5000).


Overall, I think it's a fairly decent set and I'm not sure anything else in it's size/price tier that is still available at a store new comes close. Granted the only other 2012 set I tried was the LG 32CS560 but, the only other set that caught my eye was the Insignia NS-32L240A13 (and that was because of the DX-32L230A12) and I missed out on looking at it.
 
UN32EH5000 update

I finally got a chance to try out a 360 on the UN32EH5000. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to borrow a fighting game or racing game to go with it. I looked at Borderlands, Call of Duty Black Ops, Crysis 2, and Gears of War 3. The only one I compared to the Toshiba 34HF85 was Borderlands (since I looked at it when I had the LG 32CS560). I knew what I was looking for so I didn;t bother to hook the 360 up to the Toshiba 34HF85.

I renamed the input label for HDMI2 to PC on the UN32EH5000 (which was where I hooked the 360 up) and it made the 360 look absolutely incredible. To be fair, you can get a similar look setting the UN32EH5000 to "Screen Fit" and dropping the sharpness down to 0 but renaming the input label to "PC" means you can drop the sharpness down from 50 to 0 (or wherever you think it looks best) which allows you to soften the sharpness another "50 levels" compared to not renaming the input label to "PC". I also had game mode on but to be honest, I don't think it makes any difference other than changing you picture settings.


Input lag (on the 360):

If it's there, it's minimal. I don't play FPS games but, I can tell when there is a delay between a button press and an onscreen action. I didn't see any nor did I "feel" any so I would guess it's in the 16ms to 32ms range.


Ghosting/Blurring/etc (on the 360):

This was different for all the games and it's likely the result of their game engine/coding.

Borderlands

Borderlands had a "jitter" (for the lack of a better word) around the object that was sort of "jagged" (kind of like bad de-interlacing but just on the edges of an object not on everything) and some blurring/smear when looking about with the camera. If you move the camera slow, it's not there and I really don't know how to describe the speed at which it starts. In the starting area (at a full speed spin) the tall thin pole/torch next to a box/thing with tin siding (resembling a makeshift bus-stop) looked as though 3 to 4 of them were there but, they were all very close to one another rather than being spread far out from one another. There was some blur/smear as well but, you could clearly tell where everything was instead of needing to guess since any "ghosting" wasn't spread far apart. The Toshiba 34HF85 didn't have the blur/smear but, its 2-3 "ghosts" were spread out on a full speed spin which would make you need to guess where the object was. I actually preferred the way the UN32EH5000 handled the movement even though it had some blur/smear. There was some blur/smear on all speeds of camera movement.


Call of Duty Black Ops

Call of Duty Black Ops was tested in the "Zombies" survival mode. It had the more of a "traditional" ghosting on a full speed spin where some of the background "ghosts" were spread out like they would be in something like WoW. It also had the type of ghosting to where stuff "dimmed" a bit with some slight blur/smear which is usually due to pixel response and transition times. However, it wasn't present in any of the other games so it may be related to the game engine or lighting engine and how they interact with the pixel response and transition times. There was some blur/smear on all speeds of camera movement.


Crysis 2

Crysis 2 was odd. It had the more "traditional" ghosting on a full speed spin where some of the background "ghosts" were spread out like they would be in something like WoW. However, it felt like the 360 was choking trying to process the game as the full speed spin felt really slow as if frames were dropping. There was some blur/smear on all speeds of camera movement. It was hard to determine how performance actually was and, I'm not sure I should have even included this game.


Gears of War 3

Gears of War 3 handled motion incredibly well. Even at a full speed camera spin, there didn't appear to be any duplicate images but they may have just been stacked very, very close. There was some blur/smear on all speeds of camera movement though. I have a hunch that motion in the game was just designed and executed very well.


Overall feelings (on the 360):

I think the UN32EH5000 did very well but, that's obviously subjective. IRL, stuff blurs/smears and ghosts to the eye (like when your hands clap together or you spin around) so it doesn't bother me if it's there in a game (at least relative to movement speed IRL). Also keep in mind that I was intentionally looking for "flaws and defects" though some would be noticeable to anyone (like the "dimming" when moving the camera in Call of Duty Black Ops).



A CHALLENGER APPEARS!!!1

vs the Dell U2311HM:

For the sake of argument, since the average input lag is known on the Dell U2311HM (as well as how it does with motion in games) I hooked the 360 up over HDMI>DVI to my Dell U2311HM. I looked at Borderlands, Call of Duty Black Ops (in "Zombies" survival mode), and Gears of War 3. All three games looked better on the UN32EH5000 (as renaming the input label to PC makes things like the Nazi emblem not look like a pixelated mess) and I could not tell the difference in input lag. The motion also looked better on the UN32EH5000 as the "jitter" (for the lack of a better word) ghosting appeared to keep the image from blurring/smearing less than it did on the U23HM11. It's hard to put into words but, motion on the UN32EH5000 just flat out looked better.

That totally took me by surprise as it makes no sense at all. I expected better black levels and an overall better image on the UN32EH5000 since it has a S-PVA panel and lacks overly aggressive AG coating. I did not expect it to perform as well as or better than the U2311HM though. Keep in mind this is all subjective as people "see" different things, there are variances from set to set (my UN32EH5000 could be a "factory freak" or my U2311HM isn't as good as it could be), and no test equipment was used. However, after the comparison to the U2311HM I don't see how I could wind up with an overall better VA panel display (barring some amazing 120Hz one that I doubt will ever see the light of day). The only other major variable left for me is to actually see how it handles fighting games.
 
LawGiver said:
any info on input lag for JVC 3001 series??

http://tv.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL028923&pathId=201&page=10#
Click to expand...

That 42" and 47" versions of that set is supposed to have a "game mode" which should theoretically lower input lag. If it does so and reduces the display down to 60Hz (which is its native refresh rate) then you could avoid the issue of the extra input lag that frame interpolation will add. The 32" does not have that option though according to the manual. There is a chance that changing the input label to PC would defeat the image processing on the 32" version but that's no guarantee that it would affect input lag.

However, that doesn't mean that it will have low input lag. I couldn't find anything about that line over at AVS or here.

I did see that the JL37BC3000 from 2011 had 16ms to 32ms of input lag (1 to 2 frames) measured via the "flawed" stopwatch method. If this is the model refresh, there is a chance it could perform in a similar method. Then again the LG 32CS560 which was a model refresh of the LG 32KK450 wasn't as good of a display (though it did retain 4:4:4 and low input lag).


Was there a reason you were looking at that set besides the IPS panel?
 
i want it for gaming and only gaming. 1080p, nothing else matters really, under $400 would be nice.
 
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