Launching a 12 Card AMD RX580 Windows 10 based Mining Rig - Blog

Archaea

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Radeon Software Crimson ReLive Edition 17.10.2 now supports 12 cards in Windows 10 for Compute:

Radeon Software now supports compute workloads for up to 12 installed Radeon RX 400, Radeon RX 500 or Radeon RX Vega series graphics products on Windows®10 Fall Creator System configurations.

It's also supposed to have the Beta BlockChain driver DAG fix applied!!!


The Biostar TB250BTC-Pro supports 12 Graphics cards
http://www.biostar-usa.com/app/en-us/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=884
Biostar.PNG



Newegg had a sale on RX580 today - Sapphire Nitro + 8GB for $280.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202280&cm_re=RX580_nitro_+-_-14-202-280-_-Product
Sapphire.PNG



I decided to take the jump.

I bought 8GB of RAM, I have an SSD laying around. I picked up a Pentium G4650 from Microcenter for $57. (cheapest dual core hyperthreaded chip in the Intel socket 1151 lineup --- I don't think a Celeron would cut it for 12 cards??? maybe - not worth risking it to save $20 bucks on the CPU)

I'll record the project in this post:
Price to performance seems to be pretty high here: if 30MH/s per card (+ dual mining) and 12 cards then should be about 360MH/s ETH (+ dual mining) at a total rig price of right at $4k.

Power draw I'm unsure of at this time - but there is a custom bios by anorak himself for this card - so crossing my fingers it's exceptionally low power draw (<130watt per card) and nice hash rate (~30MH/s + dual mining) -- per his typical!
https://anorak.tech/c/downloads/sapphire


Now to figure out how to power this!?!?! Those cards each need an 8pin and a 6pin, and the risers will each need a six pin.

So I'll need
12, 8 pin pci-e
and
24 6 pin pci-e


= 36 PCI-E cables!!!!!!

That's a lot of darn power splitter adapters on a single power supply. So probably better to daisey chain multiple smaller PSU's or one small PSU for the motherboard and a server PSU with a breakout board for all the cards.

Any specific suggestions for power?
 
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razor1

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Are you using Nicehash?

If using Nicehash, you might need more ram. My rig with 580's, its got 8 gb of ram and it doesn't run well with nicehash,

You need to use the old (legacy) nicehash miner for AMD cards too, the new Nicehash miner dropped AMD cards. I think it has to do with the new excavator miner that nice hash uses now, they dropped 3rd party miners due to IP issues and profit splitting.

But its a bit more work, just mining with another pool and sending it to a wallet or exchange and selling the for Bitcoin or keeping the coins as is.

Power wise

I would use hp 1200 server power supplies. for something like that I would get 2 of them w/ 2 x 6 or 7 break out boards. This will be load. The other option yeah get a splinter adapter and get desktop PSU's. Two 1200 watt PSU's or 1000 watt PSU's should be plenty.

Make SURE you get extra risers for this too. The rx 580's love sucking power from the risers!
 

razor1

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That will work that is 2 server power supplies together.

Just letting ya know though that guy sux at shipping. They wait to make sure the money is hand before they ship, so when they say 1 week to ship, its one week after they get their money, so its more like 2 weeks lol.

Its nice in that ya get everything you need in one bundle though. if ya want to get rig set ups form the guy (cages), they charge way too much for them, and its based on demand, I got my first cage form those guys for 170 bucks that came with one power supply break out board, risers. But after mining took off again, they started charging 500 bucks for each cage. And it also took 3 weeks to get the damn thing cause they hand build them after they get their money lol. Which wasn't disclosed when I put in the order! He stayed 2 weeks for shipping, which was fine, yeah it shipped out in 2 weeks so effectively I sat around with my components for a month before the cage came in lol.
 
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Archaea

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Ouch -

I had just happened to stumble upon that site myself. Glad to know about the shipping delay --- not wanting to wait 2 weeks to get this started!

But he does have this 32 connector 2400 watt PSU - for someone in a planning stage. 32 connectors would get you most of the way there. (32 of 36 total in that one PSU -- get three splitters for $4.50 each and you could run all 12 video cards and risers off just a single server PSU. Then you could get a minimal cheap traditional power supply for another $20 bucks to power the motherboard and CPU.
http://www.parallelminer.com/produc...-platinum-efficiency-200v240v-w-32pcie-plugs/
and splitters
http://www.parallelminer.com/produc...extension-cable-2x-62pin-cable-6in-each-side/

Just need to have a 240 volt hookup (and I do - if I want to go that direction).


Here is a another very interesting power supply option.
https://www.deepinthemines.com/coll...ucts/2600w-80-gold-atx-power-supply-180v-240v
All connections you need for a mining rig with 2600 watts. Unique. Niche. Great idea!
 
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Archaea

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Bought more parts tonight. Should have everything on order now and arriving next week early.


Bought two of these EVGA SuperNOVA 850 G3, 220-G3-0850-X1 PSUs - (after comparing quite a few options from 600-1300 watt range via an excel spreadsheet - these came out on top). After rebate = $90 each.
This is a better option than a single big power supply because:
A) cheaper
B) more pci-e connectors with 6 per power supply (instead of 8 total).
C) more power combined - can approach limit of circuit easily
D) quieter than a server power supply and likely more reliable long term (10 year warranty on these)
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438092
(another nice option I was considering was the Seasonic Focus Gold 850 - which may have even been a better PSU, but had a lower MSRP and street price everywhere - so perhaps I'm just a sucker for higher MSRP marketing?!?!)
Capture1.PNG



Bought 12 of these mintcell risers --- version 8s allows for power connector of molex, sata, or 6 pin pci-e. I hadn't seen this before. My risers to this point have been version 4, 6, and 7.
https://www.amazon.com/MintCell-Mul...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YKK4NBT93WGE80ZBWHA4
Capture.PNG



I bought a couple packs of these 6pin pci-e splitter to two 6 or 8 pin pci-e.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y4KSJTT/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I'll need 36 PCI-E cables. There will be 12 on the power supplies each = 24 and I'll use these 12 splitters to finish it out.
Capture2.PNG

 
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oblox

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I still think you should have went server psu w/ breakout boards coupled with getting a 220v breaker up and running. At the very least, run this rig on its own 20a 120v circuit.
 

KD5ZXG

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Nothing about ATX supply with active power factor correction precludes use with 220VAC for higher efficiency.
No matter what you plug to, its going to boost to the vicinity of 390VDC for bulk storage on the horsekiller cap.
220VAC doesn't need as much boost to reach 390VDC, so that part of the circuit doesn't have to work so hard.

Lets get technical for a sec...

Your input is rectfied by diodes, passes through a coil, another diode, and stores on the cap. But only provides
120VDC (170VDC peak), or 220VDC (311VDC Peak). So current in the coil is boosted by briefly shorting the
coil's output to ground. Current stored in the coil then charges the cap to a higher voltage than input. Its not a
catastophic short, because the coil's magnetic structure is gapped to store most of that brief burst of energy.
But some of it is burned in the MOSFET conducting the short, and where the inefficiency mostly comes from.
Less time that MOSFET spends shorted, higher the efficiency.

And then we'll dumb it back down...

There is more to it (for power factor correction to take place), but I've already bored some to death.
You do not need a "server" supply to benefit from 220VAC.
 
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oblox

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Nothing about ATX supply with active power factor correction precludes use with 220VAC for higher efficiency.
No matter what you plug to, its going to boost to the vicinity of 390VDC for bulk storage on the horsekiller cap.
220VAC doesn't need as much boost to reach 390VDC, so that part of the circuit doesn't have to work so hard.

Lets get technical for a sec...

Your input is rectfied by diodes, passes through a coil, another diode, and stores on the cap. But only provides
120VDC (170VDC peak), or 220VDC (311VDC Peak). So current in the coil is boosted by briefly shorting the
coil's output to ground. Current stored in the coil then charges the cap to a higher voltage than input. Its not a
catastophic short, because the coil's magnetic structure is gapped to store most of that brief burst of energy.
But some of it is burned in the MOSFET conducting the short, and where the inefficiency mostly comes from.
Less time that MOSFET spends shorted, higher the efficiency.

And then we'll dumb it back down...

There is more to it (for power factor correction to take place), but I've already bored some to death.
You do not need a "server" supply to benefit from 220VAC.
Voltage efficiency has nothing to do with what I am getting (not sure where you grabbed on to efficiency)... I'm talking about wattage and you have more capacity on a 220v circuit. Period.
 

Archaea

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5 of the RX580 Sapphire Nitro + OC cards came in. For now I'm tinkering with them on my gaming rig trying to get the hashrates up.

Stock is only 20MH/s.
Anorak's bios file with the 1750 timing was a disappointment at 22MH/s (1500 timing version didn't work). (https://anorak.tech/c/downloads/sapphire)
PolarisBiosEditors' one click timing patch got me to 24MH/s with the OEM bios. (
Version 2 of 1stminingrig's bios file got me to 28MH/s (Version 1 didn't work) (http://1stminingrig.com/best-bios-rom-sapphire-nitro-rx-580-8gb-oc-hynix-memory-30-mhs/)

I'd like to get to that mythical 30.5 MH/s optimized range for the RX580. Any suggestions?
 
D

Deleted member 88227

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Holy crap this is going to be an awesome build. I would love to see what this baby would do with some BOINC projects, but I'm sure that's not going to happen as running DC projects don't pay.

Either way, awesome looking build coming together so far!
 

maxius

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im going to be keeping tabs on this as im debating on getting in on the crypto wave
 

KD5ZXG

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Voltage efficiency has nothing to do with what I am getting (not sure where you grabbed on to efficiency)... I'm talking about wattage and you have more capacity on a 220v circuit. Period.
Server supply on 120VAC circuit is vastly less efficient and less capable
than its 220VAC rating (Example: 1200W rating delivers only 750W).
Also draws more current from the wall, needing a higher rated circuit,
to make fewer useful Watts.

ATX supply on 220VAC may be vastly more efficient than 120VAC rated,
unless already better than gold to begin. Certainly will draw fewer Amps
from the wall, the more Volts you can give in exchange.

Wether not ATX might deliver more useful Watts while plugged 220VAC?
Depends if boost to storage, or isolated downconversion afterward was the
original weak link in its Watt rating. If boost, then you may get extra Watts.

Volts * Amps = Watts. Note this is a dumbed down equation that assumes
a resistive, non-reactive load. Power factor correction fakes that for us, so
we don't have to concern ourselves with any difficult math.

I agree that a 220VAC circuit delivers more Watts for same gauge wire.
The insulation may be good for 600V, but copper still limits the current.

Also why we boost to 390VDC for bulk storage rather than buck down
directly to 12VDC. I've seen one boost to nearly 800VDC, just cause
it was the only way to make a reasonable size cap hold the required
energy. Higher voltage reduces ripple current in and out of that cap...
 
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thebufenator

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Switching my rigs from Corsair power supplies to HP server power supplies on 120v has had at least the same efficiency. Some small amount better for a few rigs. So I don't know what you are talking about in terms of server psu's being inefficient on 110v. Still at least gold efficiency.
 

KD5ZXG

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I only measure for a living, what would I know???
Mostly lighting supplies. Same thing only different.
220VAC vs 110VAC, always a big difference...

PowerStation.jpg

My lab also has workstations for Audio, RF, and
High Current measurements. This corner is for
moderate high voltages, up to 480VAC, 800VDC.
 
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Archaea

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I got the hash rate to something I’m good with by making my own Bios. Part 1stmining rig, and part PBE one click timing patch. I modified straps from 1625 on up. Results are good. Now to do some stability testing overnight.

Might still have to detune slightly to save a bit more power.


9BB4B1DE-43A4-4115-8E68-61E99F154F70.jpeg
 

KD5ZXG

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What were your core and memory clocks?

edit - Nevermind, its in the screenshot.
 

Archaea

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How much do you have in this system all told?
I'll be right at $4K

12cardrig.PNG



It should hash for about $20-$22 a day gross at current profit level. ($600-$660 per month gross) --- this figured using nicehash.

Figure electricity will cost 1/5 to 1/4 of that gross.

Full payoff should be in about 6 months if current mining profits hold.
 
D

Deleted member 88227

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That's extremely cheap for that many GPUs in a single setup like that. I sent you a PM.
 

Archaea

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That's extremely cheap for that many GPUs in a single setup like that. I sent you a PM.
I was thinking it’d be fun to throw passware password cracker on the rig and see how fast I could crack a complex password. ;)
 

NKD

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its good to keep mining. But I stopped building about 4 months ago. If you can break even then the card sell off point becomes your profit. My rigs are almost paid off. I'll probably sell off my cards with over 2 years left in warranty in about 6 months. They have been running underpowered the whole time. That for me should be all profit.
 
D

Deleted member 88227

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Insane amounts of computation power in one setup that's for sure. Are you going to post any pics of the rig? I noticed you didn't list a case you're housing this in so I'd be interested to see what you came up with.
 

Archaea

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Are you going to post any pics of the rig? I noticed you didn't list a case you're housing this in so I'd be interested to see what you came up with.
I'll have pictures of the setup when all the parts finish arriving early next week.
I'm simply using a open wire rack for my two other rigs -- this new one will go on the remaining bottom shelf.

I'm applying the K.I.S.S. principle. :)

$40 bucks for the rack, and it easily houses three rigs.

It's basically something like this -
https://www.amazon.com/Layer-Shelf-Adjustable-Steel-Shelving/dp/B01G4N8JOU/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1509243521&sr=8-11&keywords=wire+rack&th=1

But i picked it up at the local home depot. Get a pack of zip ties and you're all set.

Attached is a recent picture of my two current rigs on the rack.

35572C6B-D223-4A8D-A097-DA2CB7C3FD39.jpeg
 
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oblox

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Server supply on 120VAC circuit is vastly less efficient and less capable
than its 220VAAC rating (Example: 1200W rating delivers only 750W).
Also draws more current from the wall, needing a higher rated circuit,
to make fewer useful Watts.

ATX supply on 220VAC may be vastly more efficient than 120VAC rated,
unless already better than gold to begin. Certainly will draw fewer Amps
from the wall, the more Volts you can give in exchange.

Wether not ATX might deliver more useful Watts while plugged 220VAC?
Depends if boost to storage, or isolated downconversion afterward was the
original weak link in its Watt rating. If boost, then you may get extra Watts.

Volts * Amps = Watts. Note this is a dumbed down equation that assumes
a resistive, non-reactive load. Power factor correction fakes that for us, so
we don't have to concern ourselves with any difficult math.

I agree that a 220VAC circuit delivers more Watts for same gauge wire.
The insulation may be good for 600V, but copper still limits the current.

Also why we boost to 390VDC for bulk storage rather than buck down
directly to 12VDC. I've seen one boost to nearly 800VDC, just cause
it was the only way to make a reasonable size cap hold the required
energy. Higher voltage reduces ripple current in and out of that cap...
Again, I said a server psu running on 220v. It would be close, but for less than the cost of those two atx psus, he could have gotten a 1600-2400w server psu w/ breakout board and pci-e cables, 30a 220v breaker, outlet and cabling for the run and be set up for future capacity. I'm not sure why you continue to bring up efficiency and these long diatribes about electricity like anyone gives a shit. I get that is what you do but you're splitting hairs over 110/220 and having 220v makes the most sense for anyone building a decent size farm.
 

KD5ZXG

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An extremely toned down and foreshortened version of one of my actual diatribes.
 

Archaea

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I stumbled upon this post late last night. I'll give this BIOS a try next:

http://1stminingrig.com/best-bios-r...80-8gb-limited-edition-hynix-memory-31-5-mhs/

Here it is guys, the beast, the best of, the Sapphire Nitro+ RX 580 8GB Limited Edition mining peformance test and review.

First of all i must say that this is one of the best GPU i ever tested. It is STABLE, RUN COOL, BEST HASHRATE and is HUGE!!!

Sapphire Nitro+ RX 580 8GB Limited Edition Hynix Memory 31.5+ Mh/s
 

Archaea

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For you 220v power pushers -- I decided to heed your advice for the better efficiency.

I bought one of these on eBay for ~$85 bucks shipped.
HP AF914A power distribution unit.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HP-AF914A-PWR-Monitoring-PDU-Ph-1-24A-200-240VAC-24-x-C13-3-x-C19-NEMA-L6-30/122700555807?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

My house previously had an electric range on a 40 amp 240v circuit. The wire is just capped and doing nothing and is five feet from my mining rack. So I suppose there is little reason not to join the 220v party.

I looked up all five of my ATX powersupplies and they all support 100-240V input, so I might be able to put my whole rack on 220v.

The HP PDU will allow me to monitor amp output in realtime via a small LCD on the right hand side of the unit on each of three individual PSU segments - which will conveniently align with my three racks.


PDU.PNG
 
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Deleted member 88227

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That should be pretty sweet! What kind of cables plugs into that thing?
 

Archaea

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C13 to C14 cables.

I bought a six pack
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075QZMVD7/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2ZA4XKXZJG7F4&psc=1

It allows for 3 C19 cables too.

That strip is about $350 on amazon. $80 for new, open box seemed acceptable. ;)


The strip is 24 amp limited.
24 amp x 220v = 5280 watts. One strip should power my whole current rack with the three mining rigs.

(1) 1200 watt PSU, + (2) 1000 watt PSUs, + (2) 850 watt PSUs = 4,900 watts of Gold Efficiency rating ATX PSU power.
 
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D

Deleted member 88227

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I never knew such a thing existed. Does it only work for 240?

edit
Nevermind. Apparently it does only work for 200v+ circuits. I need to buy a house already.
 

Archaea

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I never knew such a thing existed. Does it only work for 240?

edit
Nevermind. Apparently it does only work for 200v+ circuits. I need to buy a house already.
I'm not very knowledgeable about it frankly - but from what I've read, and the very discussion in this thread - it should be a few percentage more efficient than using 110v -- and truly my main driving reason is I have several heavy duty extension cords running to different 110v circuts in my basement from the five power supplies and that's dumb. (I was getting to a place were I was going to have to syphon from my dedicated home theater circuit - and that's where I figured it was going to annoy me -- those two home theater dedicated 20 amp circuits I installed for a reason (namely my eight 18" subwoofers and 4 iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers)). Getting all the power from one 220v line, while not overloading the various 110v circuits in my basement is a superior option. The expected efficiency gain increase is gravy.

You can see my recent questions towards the 220v setup here:
https://hardforum.com/threads/do-modern-power-supplies-auto-switch-to-240v.1947295/

I went against the strongest recommendation to get a nice EMC Clarion PDU unit, but the allure of the LED readout on the HP PDU showing real time AMP draw was too strong. I have three wattman devices now to show me power draw -- without that - I am flying blind. I like to have something to keep tabs on my overall power use, and what my rigs are pulling at any particular time with different algorithms. The difference in power draw between the different algorithms in nicehash can be as much as 50% --- that has some relevance to the whole profit picture.
 
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D

Deleted member 88227

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I do the same with all my BOINC rigs. I have 3 extension cords strung around the house to balance the load on the 110v circuits.

Thanks for pointing me to that thread. I somehow missed it in the PSU forum.
 

oblox

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For you 220v power pushers -- I decided to heed your advice for the better efficiency.

I bought one of these on eBay for ~$85 bucks shipped.
HP AF914A power distribution unit.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HP-AF914A-PWR-Monitoring-PDU-Ph-1-24A-200-240VAC-24-x-C13-3-x-C19-NEMA-L6-30/122700555807?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

My house previously had an electric range on a 40 amp 240v circuit. The wire is just capped and doing nothing and is five feet from my mining rack. So I suppose there is little reason not to join the 220v party.

I looked up all five of my ATX powersupplies and they all support 100-240V input, so I might be able to put my whole rack on 220v.

The HP PDU will allow me to monitor amp output in realtime via a small LCD on the right hand side of the unit on each of three individual PSU segments - which will conveniently align with my three racks.


View attachment 41937
Once you get all your rigs plugged in, you'll ask yourself why you didn't do it sooner.
 

Elkwood

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Tks for posting up about the 240v stuff ! I had not given any thought to how much
better it be. I just happen to have a 240 outlet that was for a big ass window ac unit that
is no longer in use. My house built in 1951 and only has a 100 amp service so anything i
can do to bring down the strain is nice !
 

Archaea

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Yeah the 240 volt is working great. I've got all three racks on it now. I can see my amperage requirement on the LCD screen of the PDU - the power situation is working out very good.

--------------

The same can't be said for my 12 card project.

I can't get it running for anything. I've spend basically my whole week on this, and nearly entirely the last two weekends.

Windows start bar and IE breaks when I plug more than a couple cards in. I've tested all the cards individually with no issues.

I've tried different AMD drivers, I've tried different overclock, undervolt, even stock clocks.

I've tried PCI-E Gen 2, 3, and auto BIOS settings.

I've tried reboots after adding each card
I've tried adding all cards and then rebooting
I've tried adding cards a couple at a time
I've tried individual PCI-E slots on the motherboard

Even if I can get more than two cards working at once (rare) the hash rate dives to 6-10MH/s range from 30MH/s overnight. If I reboot and try again it jumps back up to 30MH/s per card.

I've tested these cards in a second machine as good. Two at a time. Mined with them for 24 hours in most cases without issue.

I can't figure it out. I'm using the same custom BIOS on all of them. I'm starting to wonder if that's causing me issues.


I decided to give up on Windows tonight and try Simple Mining OS. I installed it to a flash drive, loaded the flash drive and it loads a splash screen and then nothing but black screen. So that rules out just the OS as the problem. I read that my specific motherboard is recommended to use an older bios for Simple Mining OS, but I can't acquire that older BIOS and I already updated it, when I first got the boards.

I did a stability test of the motherboard and RAM by themselves with no issue.

I've reloaded windows 10 OS twice -- clean, nothing installed at all. I've tried before 1709 Windows creators update and after Windows1709 creators update.

I don't know what else to try - except perhaps to load everything back to a stock bios on the 12 RX580 cards.


OH -- and I even swapped out the motherboard -- same thing and the motherboard I was having the issue with first works perfectly with seven 1080TI cards.


I'm about ready to punt this whole project into the woods behind my house.


razor1 got any words of wisdom?

Edit - this issue plagued me for probably 100hours plus over the next few weeks. I believe it was caused by intermittently failing risers. The pci-e risers are untrustworthy and cheap and figuring out which ones are bad is a real pain in the rear. The ASUS b250 mining expert is the easy and only worthwhile answer because it has a BIOS diagnoses screen for this that makes the process so simple —- so simple I’d pay $500 for it rather than spend 100+ hours troubleshooting again.
 
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thebufenator

[H]ard|Gawd
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Load up 6 of the cards with the stock bios and test just a few cards with the stock bios. Start adding cards, see where it breaks. I def prefer adding 1-2 cards at a time rather than a full rig at once.
 
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