LATEST: AMD Zen Rumors. 8 core for $300 Bios on Chip. Etc

Zion Halcyon

Zion Halcyon

2[H]4U
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Dec 28, 2007
Messages
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http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...-141214/index3.html+&cd=3&hl=ru&ct=clnk&gl=ru

(Original thread locked but this is cached).

Highlights:

==============================================

* All overclocking is done via Overdrive, you can't change any performance features at all in the BIOS (on to that next) at all.

* BIOS or UEFI is actually built into the CPU, so only AMD can update the "BIOS" or microcode. All overclocking must take place within the Operating system

* Right now it takes up to 30 minutes to clear the BIOS. If you remove the CPU and place it on another motherboard, it'll have the same settings applied as on the previous board. So debugging is a nightmare

* 6850K SKU (May not be final designation) is wait for it.... $300 roughly. That's 8 Cores and 16 Threads

* AMD's Hyper Threading is called SMU and it is damn good. The same efficiency as Intel's HT.

* Performance is really good, be it SuperPi, Cinebench, 3DMark etc, it's FPU performance is incredibly good and easily matching that of what Intel offers.

* Current performance is staggering even though it is limited to 2133MHz (as mentioned before) and NorthBridge Frequency is limited to 2400MHz

* There will be a nigher SKU than the 6850K, but it is a higher bin so it will certainly overclock better than 6850K and that may carry a premium price, but unlikely to be double.

* There's plenty of excitement from all board vendors about the platform, so we will see how it all pans out. (Especially with the hot mess that INTEL has in store for us H2 2017, that we can leave to another thread)

* For Gaming, the CPU is neck and neck with INTEL, even at low res where CPU bound.
================================================== ============
​

As always remember, don't shoot the messenger :p
 
I was afraid they'd potato overclocking on their next generation.

I hope I'm wrong but this weird marriage between operating systems and CPUs (Windows not supporting older CPUs, and now this) will severely limit tinkering potential.
 
Meh since I game on windows anyway if yes fast and cheap I'll take it and be stuck with overdrive for overclocking.
 
Well, those are some annoyances but at 300 bucks for this level of performance, it might be worth the trouble.
 
BIOS on chip? But the AM4 Motherboard(s) I saw said DUAL BIOS...
 
ir0nw0lf said:
Sorry, should have been more specific, bricking the CPU via BIOS updating, if something like that would be possible.
Click to expand...

Shrugs, I dunno then. This thread topic just seems to come out of left field.

Chimpee said:
How reliable is this ShockG person?
Click to expand...

He will probably be quoted as a source on wccftech any second now and the internet sources itself.
 
thesmokingman said:
Shrugs, I dunno then. This thread topic just seems to come out of left field.



He will probably be quoted as a source on wccftech any second now and the internet sources itself.
Click to expand...

Probably, but was wondering if that person has a proven track record.
 
THUMPer said:
BIOS on chip? But the AM4 Motherboard(s) I saw said DUAL BIOS...
Click to expand...

That seems dubious to me. Bios code (Basic Input Output System) is the lowest level code on a PC- and allows a CPU to adapt to various things/chipsets/implimentations. So in essence if you moved the chip to another logic board and it had different hardware the machine would fail.

Not buying it. Unless CPU only variables are stored on the CPU. But for something arcane like whether HPET is enabled or what mode the drives were in- no way.
 
Spirit_Retro said:
That seems dubious to me. Bios code (Basic Input Output System) is the lowest level code on a PC- and allows a CPU to adapt to various things/chipsets/implimentations. So in essence if you moved the chip to another logic board and it had different hardware the machine would fail.

Not buying it. Unless CPU only variables are stored on the CPU. But for something arcane like whether HPET is enabled or what mode the drives were in- no way.
Click to expand...

I think he said something about the Sata, Lan etc being a separate thing from the SoC. So basically most motherboards will be generic affairs. If I remember correctly. :) There are 4 pages to the article. Only one was linked here. ;)
 
$300 means $300 performance, dont fool yourself. But its a clickbait.
 
Yeah elsewhere in the thread he said there was still a basic BIOS setup for the drives, peripherals, basic stuff like time and date etc. but you can't adjust CPU or RAM settings at all until you boot into an OS.
 
There is no way AMD would be selling a chip that competes with a $500 CPU at $300.

pqpiau.jpg
 
This is in fact madness and they can T A K E M Y M O N E Y !

I am bored of my 3930K - I will not know what to do with this venerable badass mofo CPU (3930) if I get a Zen.
 
KazeoHin said:
There is no way AMD would be selling a chip that competes with a $500 CPU at $300.

pqpiau.jpg
Click to expand...

Why are you assuming it will compete against a $500 Intel CPU? We don't even know the final clocks. Sure 8 cores is nice but if they only have 1/2 the per thread performance they're not comparable. And since we don't have any idea how that will stack up...


I feel so bad for AMD at this point I might just buy a CPU just to give them money.
 
Quix said:
Why are you assuming it will compete against a $500 Intel CPU? We don't even know the final clocks. Sure 8 cores is nice but if they only have 1/2 the per thread performance they're not comparable. And since we don't have any idea how that will stack up...
Click to expand...

Well, if the rumours are insinuating what I think they are insinuating, well, then it looks like 'that demo' of an 8-core Zen matching an 8-core broadwell is close to accurate.

This is ALL taken with a few spoonfuls of salt.
 
KazeoHin said:
Well, if the rumours are insinuating what I think they are insinuating, well, then it looks like 'that demo' of an 8-core Zen matching an 8-core broadwell is close to accurate.

This is ALL taken with a few spoonfuls of salt.
Click to expand...

I'll believe it when I see it. I want it to be true just as much as the next guy, but I'm very skeptical.
 
Quix said:
I'll believe it when I see it. I want it to be true just as much as the next guy, but I'm very skeptical.
Click to expand...

You and I both.

I want so badly for AMD to succeed.

but I know so regrettably that they never do...
 
Zion Halcyon said:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...-141214/index3.html+&cd=3&hl=ru&ct=clnk&gl=ru

(Original thread locked but this is cached).

Highlights:

==============================================

* All overclocking is done via Overdrive, you can't change any performance features at all in the BIOS (on to that next) at all.

* BIOS or UEFI is actually built into the CPU, so only AMD can update the "BIOS" or microcode. All overclocking must take place within the Operating system

* Right now it takes up to 30 minutes to clear the BIOS. If you remove the CPU and place it on another motherboard, it'll have the same settings applied as on the previous board. So debugging is a nightmare

* 6850K SKU (May not be final designation) is wait for it.... $300 roughly. That's 8 Cores and 16 Threads

* AMD's Hyper Threading is called SMU and it is damn good. The same efficiency as Intel's HT.

* Performance is really good, be it SuperPi, Cinebench, 3DMark etc, it's FPU performance is incredibly good and easily matching that of what Intel offers.

* Current performance is staggering even though it is limited to 2133MHz (as mentioned before) and NorthBridge Frequency is limited to 2400MHz

* There will be a nigher SKU than the 6850K, but it is a higher bin so it will certainly overclock better than 6850K and that may carry a premium price, but unlikely to be double.

* There's plenty of excitement from all board vendors about the platform, so we will see how it all pans out. (Especially with the hot mess that INTEL has in store for us H2 2017, that we can leave to another thread)

* For Gaming, the CPU is neck and neck with INTEL, even at low res where CPU bound.
================================================== ============
​

As always remember, don't shoot the messenger :p
Click to expand...

Too many things that are so wrong ;) the whole thing is clickbait , from the reported clock speed ratings to "performance" analysis.

Take the blender demo , AMD did not release any information regarding compiler options , this would mean that magically they fixed this somehow and now outperforms anything Intel with the same code they were being secretive about in the first place how likely is that to happen ?
 
KazeoHin said:
You and I both.

I want so badly for AMD to succeed.

but I know so regrettably that they never do...
Click to expand...

You will have to change the word "never" because they had Intel beat for a time. AMD64
 
All overclocking is done via Overdrive, you can't change any performance features at all in the BIOS (on to that next) at all.
Do not like

* BIOS or UEFI is actually built into the CPU, so only AMD can update the "BIOS" or microcode. All overclocking must take place within the Operating system
maybe this will help on bad motherbaord support. but still realyl dont like this

* Right now it takes up to 30 minutes to clear the BIOS. If you remove the CPU and place it on another motherboard, it'll have the same settings applied as on the previous board. So debugging is a nightmare
WTF absolutely hate this
 
SvenBent said:
All overclocking is done via Overdrive, you can't change any performance features at all in the BIOS (on to that next) at all.
Do not like

* BIOS or UEFI is actually built into the CPU, so only AMD can update the "BIOS" or microcode. All overclocking must take place within the Operating system
maybe this will help on bad motherbaord support. but still realyl dont like this

* Right now it takes up to 30 minutes to clear the BIOS. If you remove the CPU and place it on another motherboard, it'll have the same settings applied as on the previous board. So debugging is a nightmare
WTF absolutely hate this
Click to expand...

Its 100% BS, so no need to worry.

A BIOS is there to init the entire mobo.

Why are people even taking this clickbait crap serious?
 
Shintai said:
Its 100% BS, so no need to worry.

A BIOS is there to init the entire mobo.

Why are people even taking this clickbait crap serious?
Click to expand...

That doesn't mean it technical impossible to have the bios in CPU package

Also many people call the cmos for bios.
 
SvenBent said:
That doesn't mean it technical impossible to have the bios in CPU package

Also many people call the cmos for bios.
Click to expand...

CMOS is the memory. BIOS is the actual programming (Basic Input Output System).

It's not technically impossible to put CMOS on a CPU- but it would be expensive and a waste of wafer space.
 
Spirit_Retro said:
CMOS is the memory. BIOS is the actual programming (Basic Input Output System).

It's not technically impossible to put CMOS on a CPU- but it would be expensive and a waste of wafer space.
Click to expand...

I would have to disagree here

BIOS resides in EEPROM
The CMOS contains the settings not the actual BIOS

That why it called clear CMOS because you are clearing the settings not the actual BIOS

BIOS = The program
CMOS = The storage for the .ini/.cfg file

The CMOS is located in the chipset where as the BIOS is located in a separate chip on the motherboard.
If you desolder the BIOS chips and move it to another mobo you are still going with the settings of the new motherboard.
The old settings are still in the chipset of the old motherboard.


Also for the BIOS to be in the package doesn't mean it has to be part of the waffer. We have had l2 cache in the CPU package not part of the wafer at all.


I'm not saying it going to be like what OP said
just that your technical arguments i believe are invalid/incorrect.
 
Last edited:
SvenBent said:
I would have to disagree here

BIOS resides in EEPROM
The CMOS contains the settings not the actual BIOS

That why it called clear CMOS because you are clearing the settings not the actual BIOS

BIOS = The program
CMOS = The storage for the .ini/.cfg file

The CMOS is located in the chipset where as the BIOS is located in a separate chip on the motherboard.
If you desolder the BIOS chips and move it to another mobo you are still going with the settings of the new motherboard.
The old settings are still in the chipset of the old motherboard.


Also for the BIOS to be in the package doesn't mean it has to be part of the waffer. We have had l2 cache in the CPU package not part of the wafer at all.


I'm not saying it going to be like what OP said
just that your technical arguments i believe are invalid/incorrect.
Click to expand...

EEPROM and flash memory bit cells are CMOS-based transistors that hold a charge on a "floating gate."

You know it all.
 
So much for the AXP days where you could get a CPU for half the cost and keep up.

AMD coming with old tech just to barely stay afloat and coming in with high prices. I wont swap to AMD if they do not want to lower prices. I highly doubt Zen will come out beating even a 6800k let alone a 7700k yet will cost the same.
 
Spirit_Retro said:
EEPROM and flash memory bit cells are CMOS-based transistors that hold a charge on a "floating gate."
You know it all.
Click to expand...
Yes in this context you are absolutely correct.

I should maybe had made it clear that i meant people confuse the bios with the CMOS that contains the settings.
All what i said above about it is till through though.

moving the debate between us away from the context and not addressing the real thing we are addressing is a common back peddling tactics
so allow me to recap


You said it was impossible to have the bios on the cpu
i disagreed it is technical possible

then you said it was taking up waffer space.
Again i said it doesn't have to take up waffer space

Can we agree that i was right on these two ?

Can we agree that I'm right that the CMOS containing the bios settings. that you clear by removing the battery or jumping the clear CMOS jumper. is not the same as the bios EEPROM?


So I was right on all technical points we just had a misunderstanding of what CMOS i was talking about ?
 
doz said:
So much for the AXP days where you could get a CPU for half the cost and keep up.

AMD coming with old tech just to barely stay afloat and coming in with high prices. I wont swap to AMD if they do not want to lower prices. I highly doubt Zen will come out beating even a 6800k let alone a 7700k yet will cost the same.
Click to expand...

Best part was modding them to AMP. oh nom nom nom
 
CampyStrategist said:
Not to make a big deal, but I'm going to put these here.


View attachment 10394
View attachment 10395

Long story short: work as a pleb for MB OEM, someone left these in an unsecured folder.
Click to expand...
The pricing looks rather good to me, still too many unknowns though, how well does ZScaling works? Overall performance? How well it can be OC? Stability and readiness of the new platform etc. So when can HardOCP get one to test? (y)
 
noko said:
The pricing looks rather good to me, still too many unknowns though, how well does ZScaling works? Overall performance? How well it can be OC? Stability and readiness of the new platform etc. So when can HardOCP get one to test? (y)
Click to expand...
I think the prices look too low. The 4/8 with iGPU only $169? Doubt it.
 
Does seem low to me as well, since this is not official I won't put too much stock into it as well as any benchmarks until it is out and tested. These prices could leave room for higher priced/higher clocked versions later and also more cores in the Opteron versions. I would definitely be interested in an 8 core 16 threaded processor if it performs well. Now jumping right on the band wagon is something I will probably not do, will wait to see how the whole platform works out, best motherboards, best ram combination, revisions and bios update etc. Earliest I see is June of next year for me and by then Skylake E will be out to look at and to compare.
 
JustReason said:
I think the prices look too low. The 4/8 with iGPU only $169? Doubt it.
Click to expand...

It's possible AMD would position the quaddies to comlete with low level i5s and i3s... which gives away how we should expect them to perform...
 
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