The Last of Us: Part II

Domingo said:
If a game is going to have non-lethal takedowns, they should make enemies wake up at random. People can wake up from chokes pretty quickly depending on the variety of hold used and how long it's applied. Sometimes they're "with it" and other times they don't even remember the few minutes prior. On the other side of that coin, sometimes people can stay out for long periods of time or can die if it's held too long.
I'd much rather see the whole neck snap thing go away. That's like the movie/video-game equivalent of shoving someone's nose into their brain with a punch.
It's possible, but it's basically 1 in a million odds and isolated to cases like Francis Ngannou vs. a child.
I'm okay with just keeping things in a fantasy realm where neck breaks are a thing and people can kill hundreds of foes but still have emotion at random.
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It's easier to suspend my disbelief to people not waking up immediately, to killing hundreds or thousands of people who happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. I have no problem with killing established badguys. I have a problem with often killing henchmen who usually just signed up for the wrong shift as a security guard or whatever. I can't just assume that everyone working at the house of some big shady business man(random example) is evil and deserves to die.

As I had a hard time with TLOU1 presenting every group you encounter as sociopaths. This is what TLOU2 tried to explore, and it was worth exploring IMO. Definitely not saying every game should make you play both sides, but sometimes it works, and this is not the first game that did this, and probably not the last.
 
Colonel Sanders said:
He lost me at "Naughty Dog was deceptive with trailers." That's such a stupid take I keep seeing out there... like they were obviously trying not to give away anything, and by doing it that way they avoided people putting two and two together if Joel was nowhere to be found in gameplay and all that.

edit: Thinking back, I'm pretty sure I made a post in this very thread back when the "you think I'd let you do this without me?" Joel trailer dropped where I pointed out that the animations and stuff of that scene looked off and put-together specifically for a trailer. I mean... it's not rocket appliances, people.
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I think they went above deception with that trailer with Joel in place of Jessie though. That's just outright lying and I don't see why they had to do it at all. People were already speculating what happened to him before that trailer and there's no harm in letting them piece it together without giving it away completely, as people tend to do with other movie trailers.

Neil Druckmann just did a spoilercast with IGN that I started listening to on my bike ride to work. I hope they touch on that at least and we can get his rational behind it. I'm not upset by it either, just a bit vexed by it.
 
T4rd said:
I think they went above deception with that trailer with Joel in place of Jessie though. That's just outright lying and I don't see why they had to do it at all. People were already speculating what happened to him before that trailer and there's no harm in letting them piece it together without giving it away completely, as people tend to do with other movie trailers.

Neil Druckmann just did a spoilercast with IGN that I started listening to on my bike ride to work. I hope they touch on that at least and we can get his rational behind it. I'm not upset by it either, just a bit vexed by it.
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OK, thinking on it a bit more... that particular shot maybe did go over the line a little because the "you think I'd let you do this without me" line is pretty much specifically saying Joel will be going along (at least part of) the journey with Ellie. I guess it doesn't bother me because I can accept what happens in the story on its own merits instead of getting hung up on "omg what happened to my beloved character, I hate this game now." If I felt that way I'm sure I would be pretty pissed off by that scene in the trailer.
 
Colonel Sanders said:
OK, thinking on it a bit more... that particular shot maybe did go over the line a little because the "you think I'd let you do this without me" line is pretty much specifically saying Joel will be going along (at least part of) the journey with Ellie. I guess it doesn't bother me because I can accept what happens in the story on its own merits instead of getting hung up on "omg what happened to my beloved character, I hate this game now." If I felt that way I'm sure I would be pretty pissed off by that scene in the trailer.
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I usually stop watching trailers for games I'm interested in leading up to their release. Unless I'm still on the fence about buying the game. So I never actually saw this offending trailer.
I think they could defend it that they were eluding to the fact that Joel is very much there and a driving force throughout the entire game in spirit and ofc the flashbacks, without those even I'd be unsatisfied

Not that I'm completely satisfied and think that the game is perfect anyway. I constantly think of versions that would've been better than what we actually got. For example I just had this idea for the ending:

Instead of Ellie fighting her way through all of the rattlers like some commando, she gets captured by them as well, and ofc they fight with Abby at first, but slowly realize that their only chance of escaping is if they work together, and after they manage that then comes the "I can't let you leave" scene
 
Getting going with a NG+ playthrough right now. Have made it to Seattle and I'm noticing that enemies are more aggressive. Clickers are more sensitive to movement. Ammo is in short supply. I don't think I've seen any ammo drops from enemies that weren't pre-scripted.
I'm not far enough in to know if the additional abilities and weapon upgrades will make up for this or not.
 
NG+ is definitely harder. Less ammo seems to be one reason. Enemies don't drop much of it. Gunfire damage also seems a little more inconsistent. Center-mass pistol shots rarely kill and sometimes it takes 3 rounds. My guns are all maxed out, too. Even SMG headshots don't always do the job from long distance. It doesn't feel OP'd anymore since ammo is limited and enemies take more rounds. It's still the best overall gun, though.
All supplies seem to be more limited. Once you max out your weapons and abilities, spare parts and vitamins no longer appear. That makes the world feel more bare in general. Spots that held large item caches sometimes hold SMG ammo instead, though. Otherwise, lots of drawers and shelves are empty.
Normal human enemies basically act the same, but the infected are tougher. Melee weapons no longer seem to beat them to the punch and the game is less forgiving when you shoot them when they're running at you.
 
I'll probably skip NG+ then. The game was hard enough for me already with a controller. That's the real difficulty :D I might replay it if it gets an enhanced version for PS5, when and if I get a PS5.
 
UltraTaco said:
What is NG+? Naughty grounded+ difficulty?
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New Game Plus. It's a pretty common mode in most games where you have weapons/skills that can be leveled up. You retain your improved gear, but (usually) face a tougher version of the game to compensate.
 
UltraTaco said:
What is NG+? Naughty grounded+ difficulty?
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New Game +. You basically retain all of your weapons and items from your first playthrough. NG+ is a mode, not a difficulty, so you'll still have the option to select a difficulty. From what I understand though each of those difficulties is slightly harder in NG+. Basically it's Easy+, Normal+, Hard+, etc...
 
I love the option for NG+ in games. It allows you to finally tinker with weapons and abilities that you get too late in a game to truly utilize. Ditto with abilities that you don't touch because you're focused on a specific build. Hell, sometimes it's just a fun way to replay a game without starting all the way over.

In the case of TLoU2, you actually get a boatload of stuff in your first playthough if you look around. So much so that I only had 2 weapon upgrades and 2 abilities I didn't max out for Ellie. You do retain all of your various guns and you start with certain abilities you wouldn't unlock until later. I'm finding that it doesn't make all that much difference, though. All the gear in the world doesn't matter if there's minimal ammo and supplies.
 
will there be DLC for LoU 2?...I liked the LoU 1 'Left Behind' DLC, was a different spin on the story...I'm sure they're going to try something different again with the DLC for this game

when Ghost of Tsushima comes out I'm wondering if people will bump that ahead of LoU 2 in terms of GOTY...LoU 2 doesn't sound like it'll age as gracefully as the first game...a lot more polarizing
 
polonyc2 said:
will there be DLC for LoU 2?...I liked the LoU 1 'Left Behind' DLC, was a different spin on the story...I'm sure they're going to try something different again with the DLC for this game

when Ghost of Tsushima comes out I'm wondering if people will bump that ahead of LoU 2 in terms of GOTY...LoU 2 doesn't sound like it'll age as gracefully as the first game...a lot more polarizing
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I hope they add some nice DLC even though I still did not finish the game yet.

As for Ghost of Tsushima I lost all interest when I learned this is supposed to be a Dark souls type game, I have no interest at all in those and would hate to see it win GOTY other then frustrating game of the year maybe.
 
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The game is looooong. One of the few valid complaints I've read/heard is that some later sections probably don't even need to be there. I don't necessarily agree or disagree, but the game does have about a dozen moments where you think it's over before it really is. It's enough to make you wonder if the game was always intended to be as long as it is.
IMO, additional single player DLC isn't needed.

I've never played it, but I guess the multiplayer in the original had a hardcore following. Time will tell if it's hardcore enough to play it via DLC or pick it up well after this game was released.
 
I just finished the game this morning, I'm already planning to start a new game + tomorrow.

After Seattle was one of my favorite bits, game play wise. Releasing the captured infected to take down a few Rattlers, I wish they would of implemented that a bit earlier in the game. I kinda did that by throwing bottled at enemies and luring clickers/runners to them, but, just releasing them was a bit more fun.

Also, story wise, it didn't make me feel terrible, or dreadful. Ellie wanted her revenge, and went for it. It's what I would have done, the only thing I would of done different, was after seeing her and Lev on the pillars, was kill Lev in front of her, then kill her while she was up there, then leave. Instead, she lost a couple of fingers, will have to learn to play the guitar upside down, and make it up to Dina back at Jackson. I do wish it would of showed her back at Jackson, and Tommy asked if it was done, and it ended the same as the last one, with a lie.
 
scojer said:
I just finished the game this morning, I'm already planning to start a new game + tomorrow.

After Seattle was one of my favorite bits, game play wise. Releasing the captured infected to take down a few Rattlers, I wish they would of implemented that a bit earlier in the game. I kinda did that by throwing bottled at enemies and luring clickers/runners to them, but, just releasing them was a bit more fun.

Also, story wise, it didn't make me feel terrible, or dreadful. Ellie wanted her revenge, and went for it. It's what I would have done, the only thing I would of done different, was after seeing her and Lev on the pillars, was kill Lev in front of her, then kill her while she was up there, then leave. Instead, she lost a couple of fingers, will have to learn to play the guitar upside down, and make it up to Dina back at Jackson. I do wish it would of showed her back at Jackson, and Tommy asked if it was done, and it ended the same as the last one, with a lie.
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"I do wish it would of showed her back at Jackson, and Tommy asked if it was done, and it ended the same as the last one, with a lie."

Dayum. To be honest I'm not sure I would like that more than the ending we got, but that is still an awesome idea.
 
scojer said:
I just finished the game this morning, I'm already planning to start a new game + tomorrow.

After Seattle was one of my favorite bits, game play wise. Releasing the captured infected to take down a few Rattlers, I wish they would of implemented that a bit earlier in the game. I kinda did that by throwing bottled at enemies and luring clickers/runners to them, but, just releasing them was a bit more fun.

Also, story wise, it didn't make me feel terrible, or dreadful. Ellie wanted her revenge, and went for it. It's what I would have done, the only thing I would of done different, was after seeing her and Lev on the pillars, was kill Lev in front of her, then kill her while she was up there, then leave. Instead, she lost a couple of fingers, will have to learn to play the guitar upside down, and make it up to Dina back at Jackson. I do wish it would of showed her back at Jackson, and Tommy asked if it was done, and it ended the same as the last one, with a lie.
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Gotta admit, that IS a pretty cool idea.
I've seen this popping up here and there, which also seems pretty plausible, whether it was intentional or not
(WARNING: SPOILERS IN LINK) https://www.inverse.com/gaming/last-of-us-2-ending-explained-fan-theory-ellie-abby
 
Domingo said:
Gotta admit, that IS a pretty cool idea.
I've seen this popping up here and there, which also seems pretty plausible, whether it was intentional or not
(WARNING: SPOILERS IN LINK) https://www.inverse.com/gaming/last-of-us-2-ending-explained-fan-theory-ellie-abby
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That's a neat theory, and it makes sense.

Also, after finally looking up the bad press about the game, it is 100% not warranted.

I didn't think the ending of the game was bad for Ellie, and kind of figured she already talked with Dina, because there wasn't a note anywhere in the house, you'd think that there would be one telling Ellie she was back in Jackson, if Ellie ever returned. She still needs to make it up to her a bit though.
 
scojer said:
I just finished the game this morning, I'm already planning to start a new game + tomorrow.

After Seattle was one of my favorite bits, game play wise. Releasing the captured infected to take down a few Rattlers, I wish they would of implemented that a bit earlier in the game. I kinda did that by throwing bottled at enemies and luring clickers/runners to them, but, just releasing them was a bit more fun.

Also, story wise, it didn't make me feel terrible, or dreadful. Ellie wanted her revenge, and went for it. It's what I would have done, the only thing I would of done different, was after seeing her and Lev on the pillars, was kill Lev in front of her, then kill her while she was up there, then leave. Instead, she lost a couple of fingers, will have to learn to play the guitar upside down, and make it up to Dina back at Jackson. I do wish it would of showed her back at Jackson, and Tommy asked if it was done, and it ended the same as the last one, with a lie.
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Damn you are brutal. I like you.
 
Domingo said:
The game is looooong. One of the few valid complaints I've read/heard is that some later sections probably don't even need to be there. I don't necessarily agree or disagree, but the game does have about a dozen moments where you think it's over before it really is. It's enough to make you wonder if the game was always intended to be as long as it is.
IMO, additional single player DLC isn't needed.

I've never played it, but I guess the multiplayer in the original had a hardcore following. Time will tell if it's hardcore enough to play it via DLC or pick it up well after this game was released.
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There were numerous moments where I thought it's going to end right now. But each time it continued I was glad for it. Only my sleep suffered. This 25 hours went by much quicker than the 15 hours of the first game, I was struggling with that much more, and didn't enjoy the gameplay at all.
 
scojer said:
I didn't think the ending of the game was bad for Ellie, and kind of figured she already talked with Dina, because there wasn't a note anywhere in the house, you'd think that there would be one telling Ellie she was back in Jackson, if Ellie ever returned. She still needs to make it up to her a bit though.
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I think Dina made it pretty clear in body language alone at the end of the farm scene that if Ellie goes then they are done.
 
UltraTaco said:
Wow, after she let you live twice? What a monster!!😵
Taco approves😁👍
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Yes!
Abby didn't give Joel a chance, even after he saved her life. Did she even interrogate him, let him know why she was killing him? They never showed that. So, why give Abby a chance, after she killed Joel, thought she killed Tommy and killed Jessie? She would of killed Ellie too if Lev didn't stop her. So, I absolutely would of made sure that my mission was completed.

M76 said:
I think Dina made it pretty clear in body language alone at the end of the farm scene that if Ellie goes then they are done.
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Yes, but, people do forgive. Either way, I loved the game, and the story. The game was a bit long, but didn't feel long. It's in my top 10 for sure now.
 
scojer said:
Yes!
Abby didn't give Joel a chance, even after he saved her life. Did she even interrogate him, let him know why she was killing him? They never showed that. So, why give Abby a chance, after she killed Joel, thought she killed Tommy and killed Jessie? She would of killed Ellie too if Lev didn't stop her. So, I absolutely would of made sure that my mission was completed.
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I fought the rattlers with the sole intention of saving Abby, and I know I'm not alone in that, I've met other "lunatics" like me. Yes she would've killed them because they are responsible for killing Owen and Mel. To me Abby did nothing unjustifiable.If we assume that revenge is justified. But if we don't that puts Ellie on the wrong side of the pitchfork even more.
 
M76 said:
I fought the rattlers with the sole intention of saving Abby, and I know I'm not alone in that, I've met other "lunatics" like me. Yes she would've killed them because they are responsible for killing Owen and Mel. To me Abby did nothing unjustifiable.If we assume that revenge is justified. But if we don't that puts Ellie on the wrong side of the pitchfork even more.
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I liked Abby, she wasn't a bad person, she just made a bad decision. But, I like Ellie more, and both had their reasons for doing what they did. Overall, I really enjoyed the story, leaving the story as is, like I said, the only change I would have made was Ellie lying to Tommy that she killed Abby.
My only drastic change to the story, would of been to let Ellie kill Abby and Lev, because, that's what I would have done. But, I probably watch too many horror movies.
 
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Just because I like Abby doesn't mean I have no love left for Ellie.

ell.jpg
 
Finally finished the game, the last part feels a bit as an aftertought they added to make it longer, but all in all I found it to be a great game.

I needed a game like this on the PS4 as a bunch of the more recent games I got were pretty meh although I am going to give days gone another try someday.
 
Denpepe said:
Finally finished the game, the last part feels a bit as an aftertought they added to make it longer,
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That was my first impression as well, but since then I done a complete 180 on it.
Here's why: If you just want to pad playtime, adding a segment that uses completely new assets and a brand new environment is not a very efficient way of doing it, is it?
I think the whole ending segment was carefully planned, and the length of it carefully deliberated.
At this point you'd have already thought that the game would end at least twice. You want closure, but they are deliberately delaying it for you. But they can only delay it for so long before you become frustrated.
At first I thought it was a rushed segment that deserved to be longer and more detailed, but then I realized that I was rushing through it myself. If it was longer it wouldn't have had the same effect.
 
Replaying the game isn't as slow as I feared. I thought all of the flashbacks would be tedious, but they're pretty quick for the most part. Especially when you aren't looking in every nook for cards.
I'm also noticing far more ammo as I progress further. I think there is way less of it early because the game figures you shouldn't have all of those weapons near the beginning. Starting in Ellie's Seattle Day 2, there is definitely way more available.
Related to Seattle Day 2, that chapter is just plain intense. Especially the sequence before you find the WLF truck. The soundtrack building and the process of going from building to building. It's fantastic. Maybe the best 30'ish minutes in the entire game. It's brilliant.
 
M76 said:
That was my first impression as well, but since then I done a complete 180 on it.
Here's why: If you just want to pad playtime, adding a segment that uses completely new assets and a brand new environment is not a very efficient way of doing it, is it?
I think the whole ending segment was carefully planned, and the length of it carefully deliberated.
At this point you'd have already thought that the game would end at least twice. You want closure, but they are deliberately delaying it for you. But they can only delay it for so long before you become frustrated.
At first I thought it was a rushed segment that deserved to be longer and more detailed, but then I realized that I was rushing through it myself. If it was longer it wouldn't have had the same effect.
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I actually wished the last part was a little bit longer.
 
scojer said:
I actually wished the last part was a little bit longer.
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I wished the part with Lev and Abby was longer, I'd have wanted to play the whole journey from Seattle to Santa Barbara
 
They honestly could have left off the entire Santa Barbara section and I would have been fine with it. At a certain point the motif of literally everything in their lives being about revenge could have run its course. Abby was left with a slight upper-hand after the theater battle, but she lost her entire squad and way of life at the same time. Ellie's losses were frankly not even in the ballpark.

I didn't hate the Santa Barbara section and I think it did provide a fun change of scenery...but the way it went down with the rattlers felt rushed. They spent large chunks of time playing out days in real time only to have time and distance not apply to that section at all. The theories about that section being some ideas originally planned for TLoU3 aren't that far fetched. It could have been intended to be 4-5 years in the future and even just an intro to something much larger, but it just made more sense to cap TLoU2 off with it instead. That way this story can end (more or less) cleanly OR they could always pick up with either set of characters down the line. Plus, it clears Naughty Dog's plate. I don't think anyone feels they need more TLoU right now after a game of that scope.

I'd love if Neil Druckmann would do a tell-all interview or write a book detailing how much this game and Uncharted 4 changed compared to early versions. While this game seemingly evolved compared to where they began, Uncharted 4 was apparently damn near finished as a different game.
 
M76 said:
I wished the part with Lev and Abby was longer, I'd have wanted to play the whole journey from Seattle to Santa Barbara
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Yes! Or, playing as Ellie from Jackson to Seattle, or Jackson to Santa Barbara. That's a lot of travel, and kinda sucks that we didn't get to experience it.
 
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This just arrived today:
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It's great, and I'm only on page 10 maybe, including the blank pages.

Can you believe it? They toned down some things in the final release.

In an original concept Abby cuts off Joel's hand with a machete! :eek:
 
scojer said:
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I'm not going to like a video just because it happens to agree with my opinion on the game. this is still a terribly made video, with poor audio.


UltraTaco said:
Counterattack 😁👍

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Wait, is that a text to audio software speaking? LOL, I thought the other video was bad. I'd rather not subject myself to these "masterpieces".
 
I'm pretty sure this game succeeded in its mission to create a discussion among both its fans and game journalists or critics. I think just based on how much discussion it has spawned, on top of its record breaking sales and generally good reviews, it's still definitely up for GOTY, even before considering its technical and artistic achievements.

I just finished my NG+ playthrough with my wife watching a couple days ago though and didn't notice it being any harder on my play through and I was usually maxed out on resources and ammo again like I was on the first playthrough, both times on the default medium difficulty/settings.

I really wish they would do a DLC for this game though, mostly for Tommy to play as him for the few days he was ahead of Ellie. I loved the multiplayer in the first game too, but nowadays I haven't really cared much to play online in any games.
 
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T4rd said:
I really wish they would do a DLC for this game though, mostly for Tommy to play as him for the few days he was ahead of Ellie. I loved the multiplayer in the first game too, but nowadays I haven't really cared much to play online in any games.
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Tommy seemed weird to me, even at the very beginning of the game when Joel confides in him. I was thinking this guy is going to be trouble. For some reason I completely forgot his part in TLOU1, was he even in that game? I really don't remember.

I don't think playing the same part we did with Ellie would be interesting. I'd rather have a DLC about Ellie's journey from Jackson to Seattle, or Abby's from Seattle to Santa Barbara. Perhaps two in one? :D Sailing down the shores disembarking at certain points for supplies / trade / etc seems like a concept worth exploring.
 
M76 said:
Tommy seemed weird to me, even at the very beginning of the game when Joel confides in him. I was thinking this guy is going to be trouble. For some reason I completely forgot his part in TLOU1, was he even in that game? I really don't remember.
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He seemed pretty normal to me, esp. during that flashback scene where he's teaching Ellie to snipe. But yeah, there's a whole section of the first game where you go to Jackson to meet him, then chase down Ellie with him when she runs away. But what I thought would be interesting about Tommy would be to see what he dug up from the WLF while was ahead of Ellie, given all the WLF corpses you see he left behind and the remains of those two WLF members he interrogated like Joel did in the first game. You also see where he got taken down off his horse from the infected, and it would be cool to try to snipe Abby and Manny and run from them in that scene as well, then what happened to him when he fell into the water.


But I like your DLC idea as well and would take anything I could get from ND honestly, heh. I wonder what is even next in the chute for ND now anyways. I don't see them returning to the Uncharted series or this universe so soon either.
 
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