Last of Us: Part II officially revealed

T4rd

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God damn people. You still wrapped up in the god damn scoring? Let it the fuck go already.
I mean, I did a while ago and wouldn't have addressed it any more had he not asked me directly.

I'm sorry to trigger everyone with my personal 9.5/10 rating for this game and if I had to use a whole number, it would round up to a 10/10. That doesn't mean the game is perfect, it means it left a big enough impression on me that I will think about it and come back to play it for years, just like I have with the first game that I've replayed several times almost on an annual basis since its launch.

It seems that Colonel Sanders called it with how this thread would go down:

I predict this thread going like this for next few weeks:

View attachment 253128
 

M76

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Unfortunately, with that mentality, when we let certain things slide, truly memorable and fabulous games will not be justified by the 10/10 score. The bar is being dragged lower and lower.

We call 10/10 perfect for a reason.

Vegetta, don't damn The God. He has nothing to do with it.
To us this is the truly memorable and fabulous game. I thought that part was clear at least.
BTW Only in college gymnastics do they call a perfect score a perfect 10.

exactly, if they can names thing wrong with it, its not perfect.
It's funny how, now you take "but it's not perfect" as some gotcha moment when literally nobody argued that it is perfect.
 

pendragon1

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To us this is the truly memorable and fabulous game. I thought that part was clear at least.
BTW Only in college gymnastics do they call a perfect score a perfect 10.


It's funny how, now you take "but it's not perfect" as some gotcha moment when literally nobody argued that it is perfect.
giving it a 10/10, 5/5 or 100% means its perfect.
ive been arguing the same thing the whole time, through all the attacks and accusations, that i dont buy the perfect 10/10. you guys keep trying to twist it.
 

M76

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so ignore any flaws as long as the story is good? doesnt work that way, at least not for honest reviews.
That's why you read the review and not just look at the score. For example Alpha Protocol is a mess, it has bugs upon bugs terrible level design and serious issues, I still gave it a 7/10 because in other areas it was so impressive.
A game is not necessarily defined by its weakest link. But I dare you. What game deserves a 10/10 by your metric? Name a perfect/flawless game. It doesn't exist and never will.
 

pendragon1

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That's why you read the review and not just look at the score. For example Alpha Protocol is a mess, it has bugs upon bugs terrible level design and serious issues, I still gave it a 7/10 because in other areas it was so impressive.
A game is not necessarily defined by its weakest link. But I dare you. What game deserves a 10/10 by your metric? Name a perfect/flawless game. It doesn't exist and never will.
none
 

M76

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That's still a good review and what I expected from him about it, so why would I discount it? He didn't have any of the complaints you see Pendragon or others whining about here and while I didn't experience any of the technical issues he did (auto-aim issues, AI teammates pushing you out of cover or not being helpful, etc.),
I actually experienced the ai teammate preventing me from going into the cover more than once, took note of it early in Seattle day 1 I was thinking this will definitely have its own paragraph in my review, but by the time I got to the end I was so overwhelmed by the rest of the story that I completely forgot about it. Of course pendragon1 would say that I deliberately left it out to shill for the game. But then why didn't I leave out the other negatives I mentioned that are more subjective? If I was shilling it would make more sense to omit subjective issues and not objective ones.
The autoaim issue I did not experience because I turned off auto-aim completely at the start of the game.
 

M76

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giving it a 10/10, 5/5 or 100% means its perfect.
ive been arguing the same thing the whole time, through all the attacks and accusations, that i dont buy the perfect 10/10. you guys keep trying to twist it.
I told you already what it means when I give a 10/10 score. Now you're just trying to assert creative control over me, because you don't like how I score games.
Which is fully academic as I didn't even give the game a damned 10/10 score. I said that I'm beginning to lean that way. But my review is still up with the 9/10 score and I don't think I'll change it retroactively that would be unfair. That was my first impression and I stand by it.
 

pendragon1

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I told you already what it means when I give a 10/10 score. Now you're just trying to assert creative control over me, because you don't like how I score games.
Which is fully academic as I didn't even give the game a damned 10/10 score. I said that I'm beginning to lean that way. But my review is still up with the 9/10 score and I don't think I'll change it retroactively that would be unfair. That was my first impression and I stand by it.
again, more accusations and claims.
show me where i questioned your 9/10? bet you cant.
youve listed several problems that others are having yet people still claim its a perfect 10/10 game, its bullshit.
you seem to be taking this awfully personally for some reason.
edit: "you guys" was a generalisation, not direct at you alone.
 

Colonel Sanders

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youve listed several problems that others are having yet people still claim its a perfect 10/10 game, its bullshit.
you seem to be taking this awfully personally for some reason.
You continually ignore the fact that no one is calling this game perfect. Literally NO ONE. At this point it just seems like you're trolling because it's been explained to you multiple times that a 10/10 != a "perfect" game, because we all agree there is not such thing as a truly perfect, flawless in every way game.

Also stop with the patronizing "why are you taking this so personally" bullshit because 1) you're attacking people's subjective opinions and 2) calling people shills for rating the game at the high end of a review scale (I'm just going to stop calling it "10 out of 10" because it literally doesn't matter, it could be 5/5 or A+ or whatever the fuck rating system you want that includes a clear high end and low end.)
 
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pendragon1

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You continually ignore the fact that no one is calling this game perfect. Literally NO ONE. At this point it just seems like you're trolling because it's been explained to you multiple times that a 10/10 != a "perfect" game, because we all agree there is not such thing as a truly perfect, flawless in every way game.

Also stop with the patronizing "why are you taking this so personally" bullshit because 1) you're attacking people's subjective opinions and 2) calling people shills for rating the game at the high end of a review scale (I'm just going to stop calling it "10 out of 10" because it literally doesn't matter, it could be 5/5 or A+ or whatever the fuck rating system you want that includes a clear high end and low end.)
lol 10/10 does mean perfect, not sure where you learned it isnt. i wasnt directing anything at anyone yet someone was taking it personally, so i asked why. now you seem to be.
 

Colonel Sanders

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lol 10/10 does mean perfect, not sure where you learned it isnt. i wasnt directing anything at anyone yet someone was taking it personally, so i asked why. now you seem to be.

ok you guys can cling to your 10/10 but with flaws, totally legit. yup im whining all right. :rolleyes:
at least im not shilling for it.
That's directed even if somewhat passively aggressively.
 

M76

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again, more accusations and claims.
show me where i questioned your 9/10? bet you cant.
youve listed several problems that others are having yet people still claim its a perfect 10/10 game, its bullshit.
you seem to be taking this awfully personally for some reason.
edit: "you guys" was a generalisation, not direct at you alone.
You made up an arbitrary rule in your head about what a 10/10 score means, and then question others for not adhering to that rule.
Despite of the fact that we explained to you that nobody here (and elsewhere) thinks that a 10/10 game is literally flawless.

Again, when you review a game you can score it on a scale where the highest mark is unattainable if you want.

The whole argument is pointless, I don't know what do you want and where are you going with this.
You can't force us to change our definition of a 10/10 game. And even if you did change the definition of what a 10/10 is, that won't make the game any less impressive to me. Whether I call it a 9 an 8 or an infinity it earned a place among my top10 of all time greatest games.
 

M76

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You don't have to be woke to be impressed by this.

 
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M76

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I actually thought the critical drinker would give a fair review. Well he kept that charade up for about 1 minute in a 27 minute video.
 

polonyc2

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I actually thought the critical drinker would give a fair review. Well he kept that charade up for about 1 minute in a 27 minute video.
you stated earlier that reviews are subjective but yet you continue to discount ones which don't agree with your impressions that the game is a 9 or higher...in your comment about ACG's review you said: "Wait for sale is the worst advice that can be given about this game"...how can you say that his subjective review is the worst advice?...he didn't hate the game...he just had some valid issues as far as gameplay...you're trying to get everyone to feel the exact same way that you do about the game
 
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M76

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you stated earlier that reviews are subjective but yet you continue to discount ones which don't agree with your impressions that the game is a 9 or higher...
TLDR: Yuck, Ellie is gay! Yuck, Abby looks like a man! - you start your review like that you loose all credibility instantly

Well he started the review by dumping on the fact that Ellie is gay, pretending that this is a new development that nobody expected, and basically his entire video is a running joke about it. Then went on to call Abby a "theoretical woman", I don't think he had a single intention of being fair.
I don't discount the issues with the game, it's the exact opposite. They discount everything that is good about the game because they are unable to accept gayness and the fact that the story doesn't go as they wanted to. And the fact that for once in their lifetime a female hero is not designed to pander to their lowest common denominator definition of beauty.
If anything the reviews that think these are the main issues in the game say more about their creator then the game. And even more about their audience who gobble up the hate.
Many people who played the game did mention that they didn't like Abby's look, fair enough, but they didn't do a temper tantrum and dump on the game because of it. In a fair review Ellie being gay and Abby being muscular would be not the main attractions and source of running jokes. This "review" is clearly designed to pander to the haters already existing preconceptions.

in your comment about ACG's review you said: "Wait for sale is the worst advice that can be given about this game"...how can you say that his subjective review is the worst advice?...he didn't hate the game...he just had some valid issues as far as gameplay...you're trying to get everyone to feel the exact same way that you do about the game
I said "wait for sale" is a terrible advice. Not discounting the entire review, or the issues he found, just the final conclusion. But I Explained this already why are you ignoring it? I see actual people's reactions to the game at other places too, and based on that, you either love the game which means waiting for a sale is pointless, you'll be well rewarded for your investment. And if you fall into the hater group you'll hate it just as much a year from now for $30, so you might as well skip it altogether. But I have to stress this again. The number of people who have played the game and hated it is tiny compared to those who liked it. And I'm actually surprised by that, but that is an undeniable fact. So even if I didn't play the game myself I'd have to conclude that the negative reviews are not representative.
 
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polonyc2

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I said "wait for sale" is a terrible advice. Not discounting the entire review, or the issues he found, just the final conclusion...
that makes no sense...the final conclusion of 'Wait for Sale' is based on his impressions of the game...he didn't just come up with his conclusion out of thin air...he has issues with the gameplay and story...so you are discounting his entire review by saying his wait for sale recommendation is not valid and is 'terrible advice'

and once again you're falling into the trope of labeling something as a 10 or 0 (love vs hate)...there are plenty of degrees in between...if a game is a 7 or an 8 some people might not want to pay full price hence the wait for sale recommendation is valid
 

M76

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that makes no sense...the final conclusion of 'Wait for Sale' is based on his impressions of the game...he didn't just come up with his conclusion out of thin air...he has issues with the gameplay and story...so you are discounting his entire review by saying his wait for sale recommendation is not valid and is 'terrible advice'

and once again you're falling into the trope of labeling something as a 10 or 0 (love vs hate)...there are plenty of degrees in between...if a game is a 7 or an 8 some people might not want to pay full price hence the wait for sale recommendation is valid
You keep accusing me of the same thing over and over again. It won't make it suddenly true.

You are accusing me of not having a middle ground when it is clear you are the one who actually thinks that only a 9-10 game is worth full price. That's ridiculous. And I said this already before. I can see even a 7/10 score as fair to this game, I have no problem with that. I take issue with what some people base their main criticism of the game on. And with ACG the only thing I said that the wait for sale advice is bad. That's IT! Do I have to submit it in brae to get it through to you? How is that me wanting the game to be a 10 for everyone? When I didn't give it a 10 myself. LOL.
 

NotJay

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i got plat couple days ago..
"if i ever were to lose you, i'd surely lose myself" and boy Ellie surely did. She lost everything in the end.
 
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M76

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i got plat couple days ago..
"if i ever were to lose you, i'd surely lose myself" and boy Ellie surely did. She lost everything in the end.
She still have Jackson to go back to, plus a ton of friends there, including Tommy, and probably Dina, even if they can't be together. So definitely not everything. Who lost everything in this is Abby
 

NotJay

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She still have Jackson to go back to, plus a ton of friends there, including Tommy, and probably Dina, even if they can't be together. So definitely not everything. Who lost everything in this is Abby
this might be wrong but Ellie probably never got along with folks in Jackson with exception of Jesse and Dina? if so i'm sure it got worse after leaving Jackson. I'm not sure about Dina (she did say she can't do this anymore but Ellie finally let it go so maybe) but Tommy would never forgive Ellie when he finds out she let Abby go. Abby still has Lev + Catalina island
 

M76

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this might be wrong but Ellie probably never got along with folks in Jackson with exception of Jesse and Dina? if so i'm sure it got worse after leaving Jackson. I'm not sure about Dina (she did say she can't do this anymore but Ellie finally let it go so maybe) but Tommy would never forgive Ellie when he finds out she let Abby go. Abby still has Lev + Catalina island
I don't know, it was never really explored how she got along with the rest, you're right about Tommy I didn't think of that. I'm also not sure about catalina island, if it's real or was just a ruse, the guy on the radio sounded awfully like they were fooling, and Abby seemed like a naive girl at that point falling for it.
But that's what's great about it, there are almost as many interpretations of it as there are players. Somehow it manages to talk on a personal level to everyone.
 
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T4rd

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Another good take on review scores from a recently former IGN employee. Pretty much confirms my original feelings and is why I have to discredit anyone who screams "shill" at any good review they disagree with.

 
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M76

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Another good take on review scores from a recently former IGN employee. Pretty much confirms my original feelings and is why I have to discredit anyone who screams "shill" at any good review they disagree with.

Just to play devil's advocate. I never considered journos to be inside the industry, even if they like to think that to boost their ego. You're an insider when you make games, not if you're just talking about games.
Plus it also rubs me the wrong way when someone starts off the bat with their credentials. Your words should speak for themselves, and they do, no need for this "you should believe me because I'm a ......"
 

T4rd

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Just to play devil's advocate. I never considered journos to be inside the industry, even if they like to think that to boost their ego. You're an insider when you make games, not if you're just talking about games.
Plus it also rubs me the wrong way when someone starts off the bat with their credentials. Your words should speak for themselves, and they do, no need for this "you should believe me because I'm a ......"
We're talking about reviews and scores specifically though, not from the game developer/publisher side of it. So for a games journalist/reviewer, she was an insider for IGN, one of the most popular and thus shit-on game reviewers out there. So what is the relevance of being a game developer or insider in that respect?

I don't think her words would have carried the same weight if she didn't disclose her background either, which is hard to do without citing credentials sometimes. It's basically the only reason I watched the video, because I didn't know she even left IGN after hearing her on their podcast not that long ago it seemed like.
 

M76

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We're talking about reviews and scores specifically though, not from the game developer/publisher side of it. So for a games journalist/reviewer, she was an insider for IGN, one of the most popular and thus shit-on game reviewers out there. So what is the relevance of being a game developer or insider in that respect?
It's just an observation, doesn't mean I don't agree about the scores.
I always said they stopped giving out lower scores in fear of the fans. Giving out good scores never seemed to be an issue until now.
In the current climate announcing that she worked at IGN more likely means her words would be dismissed immediately. At least by the people this is relevant to.
 
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T4rd

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In the current climate announcing that she worked at IGN more likely means her words would be dismissed immediately. At least by the people this is relevant to.
Maybe, but IMO they would only be dismissed by those who assume the worst in reviewers and that they're shilling in the first place; i.e. if they don't align with their own opinion, or respect their opinion, then they must have an agenda or are paid off somehow.

Honestly, if you still don't believe her now that she's an independent reviewer, just because she worked at IGN before, then you have to be a pretty sad and distrusting person in general. I'm a skeptical person as well, but I don't assume guilt without a reasonable amount of evidence at least and also try to at least see things from another's prospective before I decide to agree or disagree. This comes back to the biggest character flaw I see in a lot of people in general, esp. now that nearly everything is being politicized; we're way too quick to judge others, while also being unwilling to compromise at all on our own stances. I'll admit even I'm guilty of it, probably even in this thread at one point, but I try to stay diligent at least in keeping myself in check about it.
 
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M76

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DF's Tech Review

Just watched this. It sums up very well why this is a much better stealth action game than the first (and probably anything else available today). There is just so much detail that makes the gameplay immersive,engaging and enjoyable.
 

scojer

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This is cool

I was waiting for a video like this to pop up. I've been to Seattle a couple of times, and they nailed a the spots I recognize.
Turns out, they nailed the spots I didn't recognize as well!
 

odditory

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Just watched this. It sums up very well why this is a much better stealth action game than the first (and probably anything else available today). There is just so much detail that makes the gameplay immersive,engaging and enjoyable.
Right but the main character is one of them capital-L Lesbians.

Yes this is one of those rare games that transcends the medium and takes the artform into the realm of something indistinguishable from magic - it takes you on a journey and makes you feel something. But Ellie strongly dislikes wieners. So on that basis I have to reduce my 10/10 to 3.5/10.

If they can patch a Straight/Gay toggle in the menu options, I'll reinstate my 10/10. Until then, I'll agree with ACG's Review: "Wait for Straight".
 
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polonyc2

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people like ACG aren't grading it lower because the main character is gay...they are doing so based on the gameplay, story, mechanics etc...too many people are obsessed with the sexual orientation aspect...it's a video game...same with movies...I guess there haven't been many video games with lesbian/transgender main characters so people are going insane
 

M76

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https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/the-last-of-us-part-ii

it was 3.5 with about 30k user reviews now 5.0 with almost 110k reviews... this is insane, most games only get couple thousands
Since this game sold about 3x more than any regular AAA game, that means you'd get at least 3x more legitimate reviews. Let's say 30k. So the excess above that is just the entitled people who think they are entitled to get the exact game they wanted, and now entitled to cancel this because it is not exactly what they wanted. All while calling out twitter for cancel culture. If metacritic wants to stay relevant they really need to start requiring proof of purchase for user reviews. At least in the first month after release.
 

M76

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people like ACG aren't grading it lower because the main character is gay...they are doing so based on the gameplay, story, mechanics etc...too many people are obsessed with the sexual orientation aspect...it's a video game...same with movies...I guess there haven't been many video games with lesbian/transgender main characters so people are going insane
Yesterday I watched the stream with critical drinker and Az, to try and see the other perspective and what legitimate criticism they have. What can I say I'm an optimist.
They barely touched on the gameplay. It was a turd flinging competition, who can bash the game harder. The only criticism they had for the game that it is a "picking up things" simulator. And there is too much walking. Yeah, what other TPS you know where you don't have to walk or pick up things?
And they criticized it for not being open world enough, only in that one part, but then later admitted they didn't even try and explore that bit.
They also tried to sell one of the most interesting aspects of the game as a negative. That when you kill enemies the others react to it like they are their friends with personal relationships.
Their reaction: I didn't care/what should I do about it. You are not supposed to do anything you dum dum, it is meant to make you think: "perhaps I'm not the white knight I think I am" But that bit clearly went above their heads.
All they managed to prove is that they are both unable to accept lesbians in a game, and that a woman can be buff, because it does not pander to them. They spent at least 20 minutes on that alone,
Hell their chat audience was more open minded than them, and that says a lot (yes I've tried to talk to people in the chat before it devolved to the typical uncontrollable mess)
And they clearly misunderstood or misinterpreted the timeline of the game as well, which they based some story criticism on.
The only actually legitimate story criticism they had I think was: in the scene where ellie kills mel, it is the only scene where mel wears clothes that hides her pregnancy, and they never even try to say don't hurt her she's pregnant.
OK, one more thing, but I already mentioned that myself: The bigot sandwiches part was really cringey to me as well.

The rest however was just their personal bias, like the they are upset about the love triangles in the game WTF, they were never teens? This is the exact shit we were doing back then.
My best friend's girlfriend from last week was my gf for the next week, who is actually another schoolmate's older sister. I thought everyone's teens were similar. It was actually refreshing for me to see teen flames depicted relatively well
Then they dumped on the Weed smoking scene, saying why are they doing this in a zombie apocalypse. News flash the apocalpyse has been going on for 20+ years, you think people should just stop having fun? And then they were the ones criticizing the game for Ellie not being fun for the rest of the game and being a different character than in the first game. I thought being consumed with bloodlust changes you, guess I was wrong
And the only thing they said about Lev and Yara, is that they didn't care about them at allWell mates you are only qualifying yourselves with that statement.
But at least to give credit where it's due: They did say that Lev being trans is not in your face, and barely touched upon in the gamebut somehow they still hated him for no reason, they were so excited to describe the scene where he gets knocked out.

They clearly went into the game wanting to hate it. If my goal was to find reasons to hate something I could, even for my favorite things. The fact that they barely found anything legitimate to criticize shows something.
 
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