Last of Us: Part II officially revealed

Colonel Sanders

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
4,139
After a few days of reflection and level headed thinking I've almost completely re-written my story analysis. No I didn't have a change of heart about the game, but tried to better explain things, and add some things I've missed the first time.

Of course it is full of spoilers.

http://madblog.shacknet.us/tlou2-story/
I feel you on having to keep an open mind for Abby getting killed in the first couple hours of the next game :ROFLMAO:

But yeah, totally agree on the "haziness" between protagonist and antagonist. In the classic breakdowns of story between "man vs man" / "man vs himself"/ "man vs nature" etc, I'd describe it as "man vs himself" except we're seeing two protagonists fighting a similar internal battle (against their overwhelming desire for vengeance,) while also facing off against each other in a literal sense.

Also I think the moment Ellie thinks of Joel where she decides to let Abby go, it's literally the very last interaction she ever has with Joel before he gets killed (remember, the next day after that scene is where game picks up with Ellie waking up in the morning and having to go on patrol.) It's the moment where we see that Ellie finally decided to work towards forgiving Joel for what happened at the hospital in the first game (which btw, was the final suckerpunch for me, to see that had things played out differently the following day, they probably could have patched things up.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: M76
like this

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
6,505
I feel you on having to keep an open mind for Abby getting killed in the first couple hours of the next game :ROFLMAO:

But yeah, totally agree on the "haziness" between protagonist and antagonist. In the classic breakdowns of story between "man vs man" / "man vs himself"/ "man vs nature" etc, I'd describe it as "man vs himself" except we're seeing two protagonists fighting a similar internal battle (against their overwhelming desire for vengeance,) while also facing off against each other in a literal sense.

Also I think the moment Ellie thinks of Joel where she decides to let Abby go, it's literally the very last interaction she ever has with Joel before he gets killed (remember, the next day after that scene is where game picks up with Ellie waking up in the morning and having to go on patrol.) It's the moment where we see that Ellie finally decided to work towards forgiving Joel for what happened at the hospital in the first game (which btw, was the final suckerpunch for me, to see that had things played out differently the following day, they probably could have patched things up.)

Hopefully there isn't a next game. Don't get me wrong, it's fantastic. But i don't see how a 3rd installment without some major changes wouldn't get very long in the tooth. Hopefully they don't turn this into that walking dead trash.
 

Colonel Sanders

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
4,139
Hopefully there isn't a next game. Don't get me wrong, it's fantastic. But i don't see how a 3rd installment without some major changes wouldn't get very long in the tooth. Hopefully they don't turn this into that walking dead trash.
Can't say I disagree with you there.

Also, stop reading spoilers. :D Aren't you playing through the game right now?
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
10,926
I'll take an expansion to tie off the story on a high note instead of this depressive ending.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
17,985
It's finally almost the weekend. Have only had a few hours to play this week and am avoiding spoilers like it's my job :p
Something that has to be mentioned - why did Ellie forget how to throw nail bombs? They were way more useful in the first game because they worked like a grenade OR a trap.
 

T4rd

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
17,490
Lol, people made a change.org petition to change the story of the game.

You know a game/story is doing something right when you have this much of a divide on its story. It seems that despite Druckmann warning everyone that they might not like the game, most people are surprised that they didn't like the game. He was going for full controversy with this story and he succeeded greatly in that aspect.

Do I wish it had a happy ending and Joel didn't have to die? Sure, but I don't think it would have been as powerful, or at least as divisive had it played out and ended anything like the first game. I absolutely loved the first game too and also Joel's character, but they paid him a fair service throughout the game still in the flashbacks, esp. at the end in that final flashback before Ellie decides to let Abby go.

If they do any DLC for the game, would be hilarious if they had Ellie hunt Abby down a 3rd time. But I more realistically and interesting would def be to follow Tommy when he left Jackson, given you see the warpath he was on as you discover the trial of corpses as you're trying to catch up to him as Ellie. But either way, no DLC is planned for the game, so I don't see anything like that happening if they haven't already started on it.

If I had to do the story differently, I think it would have been interesting if it was Tommy who was being hunted and killed for killing someone's friend/family before, then Joel and Ellie would have hunted them down together, probably with Joel still dying towards the end and Ellie still becoming obsessed with vengeance for both Joel and Tommy.
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
19,537
lol you know a game is doing something wrong when its designed to be so divisive.
" "Some of [the fans of the original game] are not going to like this game, and not like where it goes, and not like what it says or the fate of characters that they love," Druckmann said. "I'd rather have people passionately hate it than just be like, 'Yeah, it was OK.'" "
having people hate it, shouldnt be a goal.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
17,752
lol you know a game is doing something wrong when its designed to be so divisive.
" "Some of [the fans of the original game] are not going to like this game, and not like where it goes, and not like what it says or the fate of characters that they love," Druckmann said. "I'd rather have people passionately hate it than just be like, 'Yeah, it was OK.'" "
having people hate it, shouldnt be a goal.
as long as they paid full price for it Druckmann is happy :D
 

T4rd

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
17,490
as long as they paid full price for it Druckmann is happy :D
Well it was going to sell regardless and it's prolly still gonna get GOTY from many publishers because of the controversy and the same people who hate the game either because they played it or they would rather complain about something because other people are on YouTube.

Can't see or respond you your quoted message, because that dude went full-retard in the soapbox thread trying to compare Abby to some body builder that's like 3 times her size, clearly indicating he's incapable of rational conversation about the game and is in the latter group of people mentioned in the previous paragraph.
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
6,505
It's finally almost the weekend. Have only had a few hours to play this week and am avoiding spoilers like it's my job :p
Something that has to be mentioned - why did Ellie forget how to throw nail bombs? They were way more useful in the first game because they worked like a grenade OR a trap.
They don't seem to do damage worth a crap either. Like maybe 1 shotgun's worth... yo it's a bomb! I rarely used them.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
17,752
Can't see or respond you your quoted message, because that dude went full-retard in the soapbox thread trying to compare Abby to some body builder that's like 3 times her size, clearly indicating he's incapable of rational conversation about the game and is in the latter group of people mentioned in the previous paragraph.
he mentioned a quote from Druckmann where he stated that he'd rather have people passionately hate the game rather then think it's just an OK game...@pendragon1 then said that having people hate the game shouldn't be a goal
 

T4rd

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
17,490
he mentioned a quote from Druckmann where he stated that he'd rather have people passionately hate the game rather then think it's just an OK game...@pendragon1 then said that having people hate the game shouldn't be a goal
Meh, doesn't matter. I'm sure his intent wasn't for people to hate the game, but expected people to just for killing or not killing certain characters. The SJW stuff is hilarious though, and you can even see myself skeptical of that very issue early in the thread since I was the one that posted videos about it and started the conversation concerning it. Fortunately it turned out to be nothing, but people are still clinging to that issue from the leaks for some reason.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
10,926
he mentioned a quote from Druckmann where he stated that he'd rather have people passionately hate the game rather then think it's just an OK game...@pendragon1 then said that having people hate the game shouldn't be a goal
I'm an outsider to this because everything I expected and wanted from the game I got.
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
19,537
he mentioned a quote from Druckmann where he stated that he'd rather have people passionately hate the game rather then think it's just an OK game...@pendragon1 then said that having people hate the game shouldn't be a goal
he didnt like my opinion, got insulting and when that didnt work he put me on ignore.
the game went sideways in the story dept and thats why people dont like it. skillup was one of the reviews i quoted that he didnt like, said its becuase of the trans thing but skillup seems to be liking cyberpunk which embraces it so that argument isnt valid.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
10,926
They don't seem to do damage worth a crap either. Like maybe 1 shotgun's worth... yo it's a bomb! I rarely used them.
How did you do at the hospital basement level? I think that was my favorite part of the game gameplay wise.
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
6,505
How did you do at the hospital basement level? I think that was my favorite part of the game gameplay wise.
I ran to the room with the structure in the middle and just ran around circles in there. I think 4 pipe bombs, all my shotgun ammo, and then 2 shots from hunting pistol. The little guy that crawled off him never attacked me or i woulda been screwed. I tried 2 or 3 times using the flamethrower and i don't think it did much damage at all.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
10,926
he didnt like my opinion, got insulting and when that didnt work he put me on ignore.
the game went sideways in the story dept and thats why people dont like it. skillup was one of the reviews i quoted that he didnt like, said its becuase of the trans thing but skillup seems to be liking cyberpunk which embraces it so that argument isnt valid.
You inserted a picture of the most roided up woman or what used to be woman about 10 years ago, and said that looks exactly like Abby in the game. Your opinion was that muscular women and transvestites are indistinguishable from each other. So don't act the victim.
 

Colonel Sanders

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
4,139
How did you do at the... I think that was my favorite part of the game gameplay wise.
Careful with spoilers :) Not saying that was a big one just reminding that lots of people reading probably haven't played or gotten to that point yet.

That part was awesome and totally reminded me of The Thing. I lobbed 4 upgraded pipe bombs, unloaded my flame thrower, and I think one hunting pistol shot finished the first part off - then the smaller thing that splits off I finished with more pipe bombs and a couple rifle shots. The pipe bombs seem weak at first but when you realize that they stun anything the bomb itself hits when thrown, they can be extremely useful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: M76
like this

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
19,537
You inserted a picture of the most roided up woman or what used to be woman about 10 years ago, and said that looks exactly like Abby in the game. Your opinion was that muscular women and transvestites are indistinguishable from each other. So don't act the victim.
wasnt acting as victim. it was said they see built women at the gym all the time. i said some do look like dudes and gave an example and he went reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! abby does look like a dude.
edit: and like i keep saying, ignore is for people that cant seem to handle differing opinions. its weak.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
10,926
I ran to the room with the structure in the middle and just ran around circles in there. I think 4 pipe bombs, all my shotgun ammo, and then 2 shots from hunting pistol. The little guy that crawled off him never attacked me or i woulda been screwed. I tried 2 or 3 times using the flamethrower and i don't think it did much damage at all.
for me it took all my flamethrower gas, then about 4 popeboms, and then some shotgun after that to take down the big one. The sneaky one never attacked you? It tried to grab me every time I ran down the corridor, then I had to fight it in a separate boss battle in the next room it was constantly sneaking
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
10,926
wasnt acting as victim. it was said they see built women at the gym all the time. i said some do look like dudes and gave an example and he went reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! abby does look like a dude.
edit: and like i keep saying, ignore is for people that cant seem to handle differing opinions. its weak.
I agree that Abby is not the best rendering of a muscular woman, but her head looks fully female, so it's kind of hard to confuse her with a dude. When I first saw her in the very first trailer she appeared in I thought she looked like they attached the arms of a male body to her as a corner cutting measure. But she does look slightly better in the final game, but still not the best. IRL no matter how built a woman is, she'll never look like a dude, unless taking massive amounts of testosterone, which alters the facial features as well. But that's going very off topic. I think you are being disingenious when you say you could mistake Abby for a guy.
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
19,537
I agree that Abby is not the best rendering of a muscular woman, but her head looks fully female, so it's kind of hard to confuse her with a dude. When I first saw her in the very first trailer she appeared in I thought she looked like they attached the arms of a male body to her as a corner cutting measure. But she does look slightly better in the final game, but still not the best. IRL no matter how built a woman is, she'll never look like a dude, unless taking massive amounts of testosterone, which alters the facial features as well. But that's going very off topic. I think you are being disingenious when you say you could mistake Abby for a guy.
hang on, ill go find the pic where her face looks like a dudes too. its plainly obvious why people thought it.
1593198116721.png

looks like a dude, at least a decently built teenaged dude.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
10,926
Careful with spoilers :) Not saying that was a big one just reminding that lots of people reading probably haven't played or gotten to that point yet.
Mentioning that there is a hospital basement level somewhere in the game is hardly a spoiler without specifics.
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
6,505
for me it took all my flamethrower gas, then about 4 popeboms, and then some shotgun after that to take down the big one. The sneaky one never attacked you? It tried to grab me every time I ran down the corridor, then I had to fight it in a separate boss battle in the next room it was constantly sneaking

I think it bugged, it attacked me in the vent eventually and i had to kill him in almost like a separate fight.
 

Colonel Sanders

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
4,139
I really can't stress enough just how ridiculous it is that people like pendragon1 are raging about a female with muscles. Like what the fuck is even the point about getting mad about that? Are you that insecure that the depiction of a woman who worked on upper body strength a lot insults you so badly? Not sure when the last time these people went outside was, but newsflash, women come in all shapes and sizes, and gasp, some aren't even "classically beautiful."

It's interesting how backlash to a character's death happens in gaming compared to movies compared to comic books, or single stories vs. franchises. Back when I saw The Last Jedi on opening night, I was pretty sure Luke was going to die but I was still kind of skeptical it was actually going to happen because I just had an understanding that killing off arguably the single most iconic hero in cinematic history, no matter how tastefully/thoughtfully done, wouldn't sell. And I still strongly believe that's the single biggest cause for the hatred for that movie (even though it often gets broken down in shit about purple hair and asians and whatever else.)

Same goes for gaming, only maybe in an even more intense way. When people not only play AS a character and see the world through their eyes, but also spend dozens or even HUNDREDS of hours doing so, the connection is so strong that IMHO, you can throw any chance of getting said people to appreciate that character's death, no matter how fucking amazing the writing may have been. You just can't do it. Most people who aren't professional critics don't understand how to separate emotional response from critical response so it just gets mashed up into leaving negative reviews and begging for rewrites with change.org petitions.

This all sucks because I'd like to see games become a true storytelling platform that could tell ALL kinds of stories, whether tragedies, epic adventures, mid life crisis simulations, whatever the fuck some developer may want to explore. But there's this ball and chain around every writer/dev's ankle that says "don't fucking hurt the characters I've come to love."
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: M76
like this

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
10,926
hang on, ill go find the pic where her face looks like a dudes too. its plainly obvious why people thought it.

looks like a dude, at least a decently built teenaged dude.
Such a small and blurry image it's hard to make out any features at all. But still would never think that's a dude.
I think I have worse images of her among the screenshots I've taken and still couldn't confuse those for a guy.
But thanks for the heads up, now I know you have trouble telling the gender of people :D I'll keep my distance.
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
19,537
I really can't stress enough just how ridiculous it is that people like pendragon1 are raging about a female with muscles. Like what the fuck is even the point about getting mad about that? Are you that insecure that the depiction of a woman who worked on upper body strength a lot insults you so badly? Not sure when the last time these people went outside was, but newsflash, women come in all shapes and sizes, and gasp, some aren't even "classically beautiful."
and I really can't stress enough just how ridiculous it is that people saying crap like that. i havent been raging, only pointing out why people are not liking it and responding to accusations of raging. do a search for my posts here and re-read them, i havent done anything that they/you keep claiming, except posting videos.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
10,926
I really can't stress enough just how ridiculous it is that people like pendragon1 are raging about a female with muscles. Like what the fuck is even the point about getting mad about that? Are you that insecure that the depiction of a woman who worked on upper body strength a lot insults you so badly? Not sure when the last time these people went outside was, but newsflash, women come in all shapes and sizes, and gasp, some aren't even "classically beautiful."
I think they are just projecting the rage for the other thing. And calling her a dude is an easy target. I mean I didn't see these responses when the character was revealed in that trailer years ago. This bs only started with the leaks.
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
19,537
1593200466473.png

take away the ponytail and that looks like a dude. also, never said thats a bad thing, people are assuming that.

I think they are just projecting the rage for the other thing. And calling her a dude is an easy target. I mean I didn't see these responses when the character was revealed in that trailer years ago. This bs only started with the leaks.
look, you are literally putting words in my mouth. i never called her a dude, i said she looks like one and i havent raged about anything except the accusations.
 

Colonel Sanders

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
4,139
View attachment 256804
take away the ponytail and that looks like a dude. also, never said thats a bad thing, people are assuming that.
bruh... that's how human beings work. If you start taking away gender and sex characteristics that we understand as feminine (long hair, slender physiques, specific clothing, standing a certain way) then yeah OF COURSE the difference becomes more muted. That's not just games, it's real life. Any woman who spends a year getting ripped and puts on a plain unisex tank top is gonna look a lot more masculine, because we understand those things as being masculine. What are you even arguing about here? Just that you don't think a female character is classically feminine and pretty, and games shouldn't have females that aren't classically feminine and pretty?

Did it ever occur to you that someone trying to survive in the world presented in TLoU, especially being part of a paramilitary organization (and
becoming dedicated to a singular goal of hunting down and killing a man known for being a skillful combatant and killer
) would place a high importance on physical fitness, and not overly concerning herself with trying to look feminine?
 
Last edited:

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
19,537
bruh... that's how human beings work. If you start taking away gender and sex characteristics that we understand as feminine (long hair, slender physiques, specific clothing, standing a certain way) then yeah OF COURSE the difference becomes more muted. That's not just games, it's real life. Any woman who spends a year getting ripped and puts on a plain unisex tank top is gonna look a lot more masculine, because we understand those things as being masculine. What are you even arguing about here? Just that you don't think a female character is classically feminine and pretty, and games shouldn't have females that aren't classically feminine and pretty?
i havent been arguing anything except all these stupid allegations.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
10,926
View attachment 256804
take away the ponytail and that looks like a dude. also, never said thats a bad thing, people are assuming that.
If it's not a bad thing why do you say it's a reason for people disliking it? It was clearly never intended as a compliment. However the models of the women look quite androgynous in the game, even Ellie. When she is first taking off her top from the back for about half a second even I thought it was tommy as they had the exact same hairdo. But I realized it in less than half a second that it was Ellie.
I don't even know what we are arguing about and how is this relevant to the complaints about the story.

look, you are literally putting words in my mouth. i never called her a dude, i said she looks like one and i havent raged about anything except the accusations.
Same difference, looks like a dude is calling her a dude, you're just arguing semantics here. I've been dealing with this shit for 30 years I have some experience.
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
19,537
If it's not a bad thing why do you say it's a reason for people disliking it? It was clearly never intended as a compliment. However the models of the women look quite androgynous in the game, even Ellie. When she is first taking off her top from the back for about half a second even I thought it was tommy as they had the exact same hairdo. But I realized it in less than half a second that it was Ellie.
I don't even know what we are arguing about and how is this relevant to the complaints about the story.


Same difference, looks like a dude is calling her a dude, you're just arguing semantics here. I've been dealing with this shit for 30 years I have some experience.
i didnt. i said the story going sidways is why people arent liking it. you'd know that if you actually read my posts.
i havent been arguing anything except all the assumptions and accusations leveled at me.
no its not.
good for you, so have i, good for me.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
10,926
i didnt. i said the story going sidways is why people arent liking it. you'd know that if you actually read my posts.
i havent been arguing anything except all the assumptions and accusations leveled at me.
Wait. you came into the topic nobody mentioned you until then. You were clearly trolling since we all know you are not interested in the game. Or did you mistake the bashing topic echo chamber in the soapbox with this?
no its not.
So you wouldn't get upset if someone said "you look like a queer" ?

good for you, so have i, good for me.
I don't think you know what I meant. I've been arguing against this stereotype as far back as I can remember, I've heard everything and worse.
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
19,537
Wait. you came into the topic nobody mentioned you until then. You were clearly trolling since we all know you are not interested in the game. Or did you mistake the bashing topic echo chamber in the soapbox with this?

So you wouldn't get upset if someone said "you look like a queer" ?


I don't think you know what I meant. I've been arguing against this stereotype as far back as I can remember, I've heard everything and worse.
it all started with me saying the small sites giving it 10/10 were shilling and that were ignoring lower reviews from well known sites. thats all. then accusations of "alt-right" started flying. then i was shitting on it because of the 10/10 thing. then i joked about the "caught in a zipper face" you posted. that catches us up to today. no, im not trolling. no im not mistaken.
nope, has happened a couple times at bars. dont know why. maybe because i just treated them like any other dude and to me was just having a normal conversation.
saying looks like a dudes is not the same as shes a dude. stereotype? that built chicks sometimes look like dudes? ok. pretty sure some would agree.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
17,752
is the girl the same one from the 2017 trailer who gets hung up on the noose?...when I first saw her I did think she looked very masculine and very muscular for a female...doesn't change my opinion on playing the game...she's just another character but she definitely stood out for her unique look

 

Colonel Sanders

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
4,139
is the girl the same one from the 2017 trailer who gets hung up on the noose?...when I first saw her I did think she looked very masculine and very muscular for a female...doesn't change my opinion on playing the game...she's just another character but she definitely stood out for her unique look
Yes it's the same character, and her physique is actually a part of her character and the story (implied moreso than direct but it's definitely a thing.)
 

UltraTaco

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 21, 2020
Messages
446
Okay, lads, from the back end, when abby(apey?) is turned away from camera, it looks like a pumped male(actually turns taco on), but when it looks into a camera, it's a constipated teenager male. You just can't swivel out of that fact.

It's an ape. Whoever made it, should've been fired if this wasn't any intent to make it look transgender.
 
Top