Laptop Makers Are Asking Manufacturers to Move Out of China

AlphaAtlas

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Digitimes claims that Taiwan ODMs, who manufacture computers for companies like HP, Dell, and Apple, are trying to move notebook production out of China at the request of their clients. While notebooks, all-in-one PCs, smartphones and wearables are excluded from recently imposed tariffs on electronics, U.S. companies apparently still want to "mitigate possible impact from the US-China trade war." Compal Electronics, Quanta Computer, Wistron, Inventec and Pegatron are among the companies trying to move production out of China, and sources claim the relocation will take 1-2 years.

Following intensive evaluation, Compal has decided to reactivate its notebook assembly capacity at its plant in Vietnam while also expanding notebook docking capacity at its plant in Taoyuan, northern Taiwan. After kicking off production of servers recently at its existing plant in New Taipei City, Quanta Computer is actively looking for a new plant location, probably in the Hwa Ya Technology Park, also in Taoyuan, to house notebook production lines, the sources said.
 
lol - for years we have heard how this was impossible because of all the unique combinations of things in China, but as soon as the gravy train gets disturbed in the slightest way, even just a threat of disruption, it's suddenly rats off a sinking ship.

I'll state it again - it's beyond asinine to manufacture equipment that could end up in critical infrastructure in a communist country that hates (HATES) our guts.

This is long overdue. I just hope it continues and doesn't get disrupted.
 
lol - for years we have heard how this was impossible because of all the unique combinations of things in China, but as soon as the gravy train gets disturbed in the slightest way, even just a threat of disruption, it's suddenly rats off a sinking ship.

I'll state it again - it's beyond asinine to manufacture equipment that could end up in critical infrastructure in a communist country that hates (HATES) our guts.

This is long overdue. I just hope it continues and doesn't get disrupted.

DocNo, it's unacceptable for the businesses ($$$ wise) when you consider how much it would've eat into the bottom line during the time. The Taiwanese ODMs couldn't even consider Vietnam until the last few years, since that's how long it took for Chinese wages to finally make other locations viable from a balance sheet's pov.
 
DocNo, it's unacceptable for the businesses ($$$ wise) when you consider how much it would've eat into the bottom line during the time. The Taiwanese ODMs couldn't even consider Vietnam until the last few years, since that's how long it took for Chinese wages to finally make other locations viable from a balance sheet's pov.

Oh you know that and I know that but instead the excuses always were "the unique combo of engineers, prototyping, trained people, etc. are what's really important, not that we are relying on communist slave labor"

Ugh. Exploitive assholes, all of them.
 
B-b-but tariffs will never work.

Part of this is the trade spat - but another element is that the Chinese economy has developed so much that they are no longer the cheap labor capital anymore.

Just because they are moving out of China doesn't prove that the tariffs work. I'm willing to bet prices still go up. And really is Vietnam that much better than China... Still going to be built by the lowest bidder in some 3rd world country at 50% price increase because of having to fund the new factories.
 
Just because they are moving out of China doesn't prove that the tariffs work. I'm willing to bet prices still go up. And really is Vietnam that much better than China... Still going to be built by the lowest bidder in some 3rd world country at 50% price increase because of having to fund the new factories.

Really? You think it's hard for companies to lift and shift to another country? Keep dreaming man. Globalization is the results your seeing - utilizing mass uneducated countries as cheap labor sources. They will take a giant dump on any country the moment that they can justify it with dollars. Same held true for US manufacturing.

The difference is that were also the kings of consuming - and it's hard to shit on your big end-customers.

Tariffs - in addition to just general resentment between the 2 countries is UNDOUBTEDLY one of the main reasons for pullback.

Notice: The Chinese stock market has take a giant dump. The US economy did a little hiccup with a burp this month and it's already working on the next all-time highs.
 
Just because they are moving out of China doesn't prove that the tariffs work. I'm willing to bet prices still go up. And really is Vietnam that much better than China... Still going to be built by the lowest bidder in some 3rd world country at 50% price increase because of having to fund the new factories.
We're gonna be footing the bill for new factories, new supply lines, new training for new employees, etc.

We're still paying for it. Just different than paying the tarrifs.
 
Really? You think it's hard for companies to lift and shift to another country? Keep dreaming man. Globalization is the results your seeing - utilizing mass uneducated countries as cheap labor sources. They will take a giant dump on any country the moment that they can justify it with dollars. Same held true for US manufacturing.

The difference is that were also the kings of consuming - and it's hard to shit on your big end-customers.

Tariffs - in addition to just general resentment between the 2 countries is UNDOUBTEDLY one of the main reasons for pullback.

Notice: The Chinese stock market has take a giant dump. The US economy did a little hiccup with a burp this month and it's already working on the next all-time highs.

It doesn't matter. It will still cost money. This isn't about the cost this is about having to deal with back and forth. That is what they are trying to do.
 
B-b-but tariffs will never work.

Part of this is the trade spat - but another element is that the Chinese economy has developed so much that they are no longer the cheap labor capital anymore.

Beep Boop Beep Boop. The gods of my heart and soul told me that this time doing the same thing would be different. We're going to do the same thing so hard and fail so hard this time that it will finally work!

I get that the sycophant wire is all over "rumour has it" and "a secret source tells us" stories that make the regime that rules them look good. None of this has happened, none of this is happening and the only thing that had these companies worried was TPP since the US pulled out of that construction of new fabs outside of China has slowed to a crawl, right now China's tech sector is expanding faster than it was three years ago. Those are numerical facts, not pro-regime rumours and trumpeted propaganda. There has been no pull back, no shift, and no change in the direction of the Chinese economy. In fact there has been zero shift in the direction of the US economy. When these tariffs start to bite all of the economies involved will slow, some will shrink.

This is a not a tech article, nor is it an economic article, this is a political article designed to titillate sycophantic circle jerk sites and bring in free clicks.

It works every time.
 
Now that the new 'NAFTA' is worked out on paper, I suspect Mexico is a top destination for a whole bunch of companies. Cheaper labor than China and shipping stuff to the US is a fraction of the cost. On another front, China has a real problem with national debt... much worse than even the US does. They've had an easier time dealing with it because of the way it's structured.. and it being a 1 party state... but that debt is finally becoming a serious problem. I've read where their housing market (construction borrowing has been the largest portion of their GDP growth for years) is starting to crash in most of the major cities.
 
Just because they are moving out of China doesn't prove that the tariffs work. I'm willing to bet prices still go up. And really is Vietnam that much better than China... Still going to be built by the lowest bidder in some 3rd world country at 50% price increase because of having to fund the new factories.

If prices have to go up to break the economic advantages of China employing slave labor to disrupt the global economy...well, that's a tax that's long overdue.

As for Vietnam and China - if you really think there aren't serious differences between them in totality beyond just labor prices I honestly don't know what I could say that would be meaningful.
 
I've read about a bunch (several million homes) of those ghost cities scattered all over china. It's a serious problem. Someone needs to do a "The Big Short" style documentary on this. The china stock market is down a lot this year and it's looking like it has a lot more to fall before it's over.
 
Considering the militancy and aggression being shown by China in SE Asia it is not impossible that an actual war could break out between China and America. Products vital to our economy "must" have other sources besides China in order for us to prevent being held hostage economically.

We made a real effort to be friends with China and invested massive dollars into their economy in good faith. This is how they repaid us. The best thing that could happen would be a collapse of the Chinese economy and an ensuing revolution ending with the heads of the communists on pikes in Peking.
 
The tariffs got a lot of attention but a lot of the rising cost in China is from them finally starting to deal with unfettered pollution from all those cheap to build and operate factories largely powered by generating plants that make dirtiest in the US seem clean by comparison. China's move to limit US scrap has in some cases led to shortages since a fair amount of their materials came from recycled US crap.

A real danger is their economy doing a major face plant. If you think a couple million refuges trying to escape Venezuela is bad, see what happens if 400,000,000 hungry unemployeed Chinese decide to move south, west and north in search of something to eat.
 
Considering the militancy and aggression being shown by China in SE Asia it is not impossible that an actual war could break out between China and America. Products vital to our economy "must" have other sources besides China in order for us to prevent being held hostage economically.

We made a real effort to be friends with China and invested massive dollars into their economy in good faith. This is how they repaid us. The best thing that could happen would be a collapse of the Chinese economy and an ensuing revolution ending with the heads of the communists on pikes in Peking.

Absolutely this. We have been at a risk with a hot war with China since the Korean "action," and China's recent aggressiveness has made it even more likely. Just think of what it would have been like if nearly everything purchased in Great Britain during the early 1930's was "Made in Germany?" Not (yet) our enemy, but certainly not our friend.
 
Absolutely this. We have been at a risk with a hot war with China since the Korean "action," and China's recent aggressiveness has made it even more likely. Just think of what it would have been like if nearly everything purchased in Great Britain during the early 1930's was "Made in Germany?" Not (yet) our enemy, but certainly not our friend.

Step back and look at things from China's perspective and it's a completely different view. They are badly energy dependent on imports of oil and nat-gas. Their move into the south china sea is very aggressive towards their neighbors, but totally logical if you think about it from an energy dependence / national security viewpoint. The comment above about 400 million Chinese looking for food is IMO the real danger... Not to the USA, but to the stability of the region and the existing Chinese government. There's a reason why China is a police state (national security state) -- China remembers Mao's old adage: 'Every Communist must grasp the truth: Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' Remember, Mao Tse-Tung was willing to starve tens of MILLIONS of his own people to move things along where he wanted them to go. The new Chinese leader basically has as much power now as Mao once had.
 
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If prices have to go up to break the economic advantages of China employing slave labor to disrupt the global economy...well, that's a tax that's long overdue.

As for Vietnam and China - if you really think there aren't serious differences between them in totality beyond just labor prices I honestly don't know what I could say that would be meaningful.
Exactly what I was thinking when I read the title.

So wait, you're telling me all of those Tarrifs are finally paying off? And it's only going to take a year or two longer? That's some awesome news. I'll take a couple year price hike to finally be rid of Chinese manufacturing.
 
Step back and look at things from China's perspective and it's a completely different view. They are badly energy dependent on imports of oil and nat-gas. Their move into the south china sea is very aggressive towards their neighbors, but totally logical if you think about it from an energy dependence / national security viewpoint. The comment above about 400 million Chinese looking for food is IMO the real danger... Not to the USA, but to the stability of the region and the existing Chinese government. There's a reason why China is a police state (national security state) -- China remembers Mao's old adage: 'Every Communist must grasp the truth: Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' Remember, Mao Tse-Tung was willing to starve tens of MILLIONS of his own people to move things along where he wanted them to go. The new Chinese leader basically has as much power now as Mao once had.
Sure, this is a historical normality. The Goths didn't invade the Roman empire just because they were looking for a fight - they were looking for food. Japanese expansion during the early 20th century was all about energy sources. Motivation aside, the reality is, unless things are managed very carefully, we could easily end up trading shots with the PRC rather soon, and it would be good if not everything we consume is being produced there!
 
I'm sure that most folks here are aware of that recent run-in we had between one of our ships and one of theirs. I expect we'll see more of that in the future. Eventually, someone is gonna get hurt, and then things will escalate. I figure it's just a matter of time, so we'd better get ready.
 
If a war starts it'll most likely kick off in North Korea and bleed over to an all out Chinese/American war with potential Russian involvement. It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the world reacts. Especially India and Japan.
 
I'm sure that most folks here are aware of that recent run-in we had between one of our ships and one of theirs. I expect we'll see more of that in the future. Eventually, someone is gonna get hurt, and then things will escalate. I figure it's just a matter of time, so we'd better get ready.

Having a big military might be a helping factor. Plus having Europe on our side assuming that doesn't get tarnished.
 
If a war starts it'll most likely kick off in North Korea and bleed over to an all out Chinese/American war with potential Russian involvement. It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the world reacts. Especially India and Japan.

The Indians/Japanese are no friends of the Chinese...I could see them possibly coming to a "neutral" standpoint if China threatens to nuke them (India has little in the way of extremely advanced air defense BM defense aside from some Russian systems, while Japan has the same systems we do thanks to our bases there and them being an ally)...The fact that India has a nuclear deterrent themselves would certainly help.

A hot war could be really, really bad, especially if Russia decided to take a bite out of Europe or the southern Asia areas the USSR lost (that are oil/gas/mineral rich)..The fact that everyone involved in said war would have nukes is very scary. I could see the Chinese using tactical nukes to target/keep us from using Taiwan and our carrier groups...They can very easily toss 300+ "throwaway planes and pilots" at a carrier group to overwhelm AEGIS systems while they sneak a nuclear armed cruise missile in the mix...

Maybe I have been playing a bit too much of "Cold Waters" :eek:
 
It's the trade war, nothing more nothing less.
While I would like to think that, more laptop sales are sold outside the US than in the US, so this has very little impact on the rest of the world. What is happening though is China is gradually being shown to be a bad faith partner in many different fields. Look at the fallout from the Supermicro fiasco, they still haven't recovered and nobody else wants wants to end up on the receiving end of a China hardware hacking story. Then there are the rampant IP thefts and industrial espionage stories that are coming out, Dell, HP, Lenovo they make the majority of their money selling to Government agencies and large Enterprise customers, who have the ability to ditch them at a moments notice and that has them scared. Additionally China is not as cheap as it once was, they are stepping up their Environmental regulations and pay is going up accordingly, these electronics can now be made with a fraction of the manual labour and higher precision with newer plants in India, Taiwan, USA, or Canada. The Tariffs are little more than a tax hike in disguise.
 
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I'm sure that most folks here are aware of that recent run-in we had between one of our ships and one of theirs. I expect we'll see more of that in the future. Eventually, someone is gonna get hurt, and then things will escalate. I figure it's just a matter of time, so we'd better get ready.
That was the result of nobody stopping China when they did their land grabbing/island building nonsense.
China won't be stopped by words. They only respect force. The US has shown itself only willing to use words in the region.

China knows how to beat the US, and it isn't all that hard. We've become predictable and weak. I am not referring to our military, but our people. China never has to "win" a war with the US. They only need to make it too costly for us(militarily and/or politically) to intervene in the region and then they have carte blanche to do whatever the hell they want to neighboring countries, Taiwan included. I'd argue, they're already at that point.

China is going to continue to get more aggressive. The level of aggression will ebb and flow but it will steadily increase because there is nobody to stop them. They're currently adding military bases and airfields all over the world. They're adding them through debt-traps mostly. Countries aren't asking China to come on over, China is strapping stupid countries with massive debt and then taking over ports/airfields/land in lieu of repayment.
 
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(India has little in the way of extremely advanced air defense BM defense aside from some Russian systems, while Japan has the same systems we do thanks to our bases there and them being an ally)...The fact that India has a nuclear deterrent themselves would certainly help.

You do realize that India has more advanced anti-missile systems than China and has more advanced missile systems than China, right?
 
This is great news, Fuck China, we are sick of them stealing our ideas, counterfeiting our goods, hacking into our computers. China go fuck yourself.
 
The tariffs got a lot of attention but a lot of the rising cost in China is from them finally starting to deal with unfettered pollution from all those cheap to build and operate factories largely powered by generating plants that make dirtiest in the US seem clean by comparison. China's move to limit US scrap has in some cases led to shortages since a fair amount of their materials came from recycled US crap.

A real danger is their economy doing a major face plant. If you think a couple million refuges trying to escape Venezuela is bad, see what happens if 400,000,000 hungry unemployeed Chinese decide to move south, west and north in search of something to eat.

Note: that's very, very unlikely to happen. China is neither Venezuela, nor Mexico, and their cultural norms are quite different (as are their "mass reactions"). More importantly, their infrastructure/economy is much more massive (and much more able to bear shocks to their system) than both Venezuela and Mexico put together, especially in relation to their own citizens. This is the "advantage" of having "police state controls" in action, unlike Venezuela/Mexico (who are already quasi-narco states). Possible comparisons with the collapse of the former USSR are also wildly off the mark, as the Chinese economy is nowhere near the economic conditions/downfalls that happened to the "Russkis" in the early 1990s. China also, by far, has the largest currency reserves (as denominated in USD) of any current country in existence -- they can take a blow or two.

A much more likely scenario, is that if Xi Jinping pushes too far, too fast, he will be "quietly retired", and one of the folks in the various political cliques in China will take his spot as Paramount Leader of China (admittedly, the various cliques' desires have become more and more difficult to implement, since Xi [cleverly] managed to oust practically all of their "adherents" from the Chinese Politburo [think Cabinet, for those of us in the US] over the last few years; so they have considerably lesser ways of "reigning him in").

-----------------------------------------
One thing to note, is:

We in the US have around 325 million (or so) folks. China has around 1.3 billion, of which around 100 million might be considered, broadly speaking, "middle & upper class". The whole long-term Chinese goal is to convert the remaining 1 billion into "middle/lower-middle class/lower class" (in the Western sense of the terms). Once they do so (and it will take some time), they don't need the US to sell their exports -- they can sell domestically, drastically reducing their dependence on USD (and the US, as a whole). That's what we should be worried about, and (by the way) is exactly what Xi Jinping is trying to set into motion (might not fully happen in his lifetime, but he doesn't mind -- he wants to set in place trends/patterns for the future; like 40-60 years down the line, long after he's pushing up flowers).



The other thing to note, is:

China has been spending hundreds of billions of USD in Africa over the last 5-10 years, building up goodwill in African countries. How are they doing so? By promoting/building/advising Africans how to build up their own infrastructures, via direct business-oriented relationships (example: We build you X amount of railways/trains, you give us Y amount of natural resources). Simple as that.

Meanwhile, the US (and other Western nations) are busy demanding that various African nations "adjust" their cultural traditions to Western norms, in return for our building infrastructure in their countries. That, to these African nations, smacks of "good ol'boy colonialism" (and many of these African nations were former colonies, so they take the implication that their cultures are "primitive, and need to be upgraded to Western standards" REALLY negatively). In their eyes, the Chinese are the more "common-sense", in terms of deals being made and cut.

This has the side result of African nations being flooded with cheap Chinese merchandise, due to increasing African-Chinese trading links (and undercuts US/Western countries out of the African market). The Chinese are growing a market with potential, while we are neglecting it. Hardly worthy of us "stewards of capitalism", IMHO. More importantly, it also provides them with a "limited buffer" should US-China trade relations sour (despite tariff talk, it hasn't gotten quite to that point, yet).

As for Europe, in particular Western Europe (really, in this case, meaning the UK/France/Germany)? Many of the Euro rank-and-file have some level of "visceral dislike" of the "bombastic USA" (quite simply, due to jealousy, despite whatever their media says). And this is because they were once the "Masters of the Universe", while we were "parvenu provincials", isolated off from Polite Society (which, as a side note, also explains why so many wealthy and well-off Americans, from the late 1800s-onwards, have the tendency to ape "upper class Europeans" in mannerisms, culture, leisure, etc). They were thrown off their rocker during World War I (and hopes of recovering that exalted position firmly ended in World War 2). It's no mistake that immediately after the "tariff talk" broke out, China immediately moved to a (willing) Europe to sign deals at low, or lower prices ...


End result?
We should be worried -- at most, the tariffs will only buy us a small, even very small, amount of "wriggling room". It is, most definitely, NOT a long-term solution.
Quite frankly, the tariffs should've been enacted 20 years ago. But, then again, most manufacturing shouldn't have been moved out of the States to begin with (especially high-tech stuff).

I think that us Americans are victims of our own complacency and over-confidence. The problem is, we are at a crucial tipping point in this game; one that will not be solved by bombastic statements, but with well-organized plans (because we are playing catch-up right now, and the problem with playing catch-up, is that opponents have the "luxury of time" to deal with our moves). We don't have such a luxury, and whatever Trump is doing, I don't have faith that he fully understands the implications that he's gotten himself involved in (the same can be said of the Clintons, Sanders, etc).
-----------------------------------------


The only long-term hope for "manufacturing" I see here in the US is to push hard for high-tech automation -- with our considerably higher tech base/level, that might buy us another 20-40 years down the line (and partially aid us in dealing with the sleeping giant that is China). After all, you can't expect a normal blue-collar worker in the States (no matter how willing) to work for Third World wages, at Third World norms. That's never gonna work over here.
-----------------------------------------

Parting shots:
In the 1800s (up until 1914), the international language of diplomacy and commerce was French -- it was mandatory for anyone who wanted to be taken seriously.
Right now (since the 1950s), that language has been English.
In American schools now, one of the most popular foreign languages is Chinese (an indirect acknowledgement that China is not something to be brushed off, or taken lightly).
For the future, will Chinese supplant English as the international language of diplomacy and commerce?
If I end up having kids/grandkids/etc, I sure hope not.
It's always nice to be on top -- and it's even nicer when we continue to be on top.


tl;dr -- Remember the Assyrian Empire? Remember the Persian Empire? Remember the Greeks? How about the Romans? Only the history books do ...
 
Beep Boop Beep Boop. The gods of my heart and soul told me that this time doing the same thing would be different. We're going to do the same thing so hard and fail so hard this time that it will finally work!

I get that the sycophant wire is all over "rumour has it" and "a secret source tells us" stories that make the regime that rules them look good. None of this has happened, none of this is happening and the only thing that had these companies worried was TPP since the US pulled out of that construction of new fabs outside of China has slowed to a crawl, right now China's tech sector is expanding faster than it was three years ago. Those are numerical facts, not pro-regime rumours and trumpeted propaganda. There has been no pull back, no shift, and no change in the direction of the Chinese economy. In fact there has been zero shift in the direction of the US economy. When these tariffs start to bite all of the economies involved will slow, some will shrink.

This is a not a tech article, nor is it an economic article, this is a political article designed to titillate sycophantic circle jerk sites and bring in free clicks.

It works every time.

everything about China, from China , has propaganda, cause you are not suppose to get news straight in that country.
 
Note: that's very, very unlikely to happen. China is neither Venezuela, nor Mexico, and their cultural norms are quite different (as are their "mass reactions"). More importantly, their infrastructure/economy is much more massive (and much more able to bear shocks to their system) than both Venezuela and Mexico put together, especially in relation to their own citizens. This is the "advantage" of having "police state controls" in action, unlike Venezuela/Mexico (who are already quasi-narco states). Possible comparisons with the collapse of the former USSR are also wildly off the mark, as the Chinese economy is nowhere near the economic conditions/downfalls that happened to the "Russkis" in the early 1990s. China also, by far, has the largest currency reserves (as denominated in USD) of any current country in existence -- they can take a blow or two.


... history books do ...

America ( as in American business elites, industrial globalists and those turning a blind eye to corporate and industrial espionage due to business reasons ) has been helping China get to where they are now, and was continuing to do so until Trump stepped in. And when he is gone, i guess it will be business as usual, considering how the masses are more concerned with matters of more immediate urgency.

THAT is the whole problem...

As for African money, that was what the Americans did in the 1950s-80s by private individuals or companies. (also includes India , South America etc) THAT went away with domestic American pressure to adhere to rules and regulations ( worker safety, environmental damage, bribery and corruption etc ) . AKA stuff China don't care about, and what the rest of the world should pressure International institutions to sanction China on.

Do you suggest America follow China's nodus operandi ( aka legal impunity on home soil, and ignoring international courts decision when it does not favor them. Try suing a Chinese company for bodily harm. ) , and setup satellite colonies too ? ( yup, many Chinese-exclusive towns now in Africa. Also a reason why there was a mass protest in Vietnam when the politicians announced an exclusive zone for China). The first politician to suggest that would be eviscerated .....
 
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Every thread about some country (usually China), somebody has to pull the "but...but...America did it too" card.
1. That is not an argument.
2. If you think the US did something wrong, why would it be OK for somebody else to?
3. It ignores all nuance and may only superficially even be a correct statement.

For example, when the US went to the moon the astronauts planted an American flag. Let's say the Chinese go to the moon then plant a Chinese flag and claim the moon as Chinese territory. I wonder how many assclowns would say "...but...but...America planted a flag too!".

Links below are to mostly entertaining but informative clips. You can easily find the same info and more delivered in a more serious/academic tone.

Chinese Debt Traps
China colonizing Africa
Zambia
Chinese military in Africa using lasers against US pilots
Chinese doing the same shit elsewhere
China f'n around in the South Pacific (part 1)
China being China in the Philippines
 
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You do realize that India has more advanced anti-missile systems than China and has more advanced missile systems than China, right?

I am aware that India fields the S-300 and its upgraded variants and I *believe* either have or were trying to field the S-400+ but I am not sure. I am aware that those systems are better then their Chinese made counterparts..What I was referring to was the will of the Chinese leadership to push it to the edge if they feel they have nothing to lose, and the fact that no matter how *great* those missile systems seem on paper, the Indian gov't does not have the control to make the decisions the Chinese gov't does so they would most likely back down rather then risk it if it were fairly high odds the Chinese were not bluffing.

The one thing the Chinese have plenty of are fairly decent mid range nukes. Not so much a worry for our mainland as it is their Asian neighbors. That is all I meant.
 
I’m so glad to see this. Make no mistake, we are enemies in their eyes. We have to adjust to the same view of them.
 
I’m so glad to see this. Make no mistake, we are enemies in their eyes. We have to adjust to the same view of them.
For Chinese, there are two kinds of people. Chinese and not-Chinese. They see every country as either their enemy or not worthwhile enough to be their enemy yet.
 
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