Laptop Killing Booby-Trapped USB Drive

lcpiper said:
OK, were getting closer. So tell me, why the "High Voltage" print on the PCB?
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I don't know how long the pulse is that it provides, or what the current output is, but voltage-wise that's enough to stop a heart. That's not necessarily probable with this specific device, but possible. I actually put warnings on the power supply PCBs that I sell for this reason. However, as mentioned earlier in this thread my supplies are continuous power which is a bit different than something like this device where you'll get a single pulse most likely before it stops getting powered.
 
*Looks at link, sees it's Boing Boing.*

Linking to a strictly clickbait site in the news section? SMH, [H]...
 
lcpiper said:
OK, were getting closer. So tell me, why the "High Voltage" print on the PCB?

Seems the only way this makes sense is that the original device was some sort of USB amplifier or antenna and was modified for a new purpose or someone decided there was a need for a device that could destroy a computer quickly without causing great damage to the building it was in. Like a self destruct for spy laptops or a military application for destroying computers in the event a headquarters is being over run by the enemy.

problem is the real jewel is the data and not the computer itself and this device might not do that much damage to a HD before it tears up enough other stuff to just kill the comp before the drive is toast.
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TPM and strong passwords are a pretty good deterrent to lock down a drive, as well as storing all data on network drives coupled with good network security.

Need to destroy a laptop or several quickly/permanently if getting overrun? Easy. My standard bug-out CONOP was to put all sensitive gear/info in the bottom 3 drawers of a GSA file safe, keep 3 thermite grenades in the top drawer, and pull the pin on one (or two if you've got a buddy) when bugging out. Don't have access to thermite grenades and a GSA safe? Then your data isn't important enough.

This little device is designed to be a malicious prank that puts pulses of high voltage into the USB port hopefully damaging something.
 
lcpiper said:
OK, were getting closer. So tell me, why the "High Voltage" print on the PCB?

Seems the only way this makes sense is that the original device was some sort of USB amplifier or antenna and was modified for a new purpose or someone decided there was a need for a device that could destroy a computer quickly without causing great damage to the building it was in. Like a self destruct for spy laptops or a military application for destroying computers in the event a headquarters is being over run by the enemy.

problem is the real jewel is the data and not the computer itself and this device might not do that much damage to a HD before it tears up enough other stuff to just kill the comp before the drive is toast.
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The print on the PCB "silk-screening" is literally whatever the designer wants to put on it. The large capacitors on the board (surface mount ceramics) are storing that 110V produced by the smaller IC chips (one of which is the DC-DC charge pump, probably the smallest chip next to the two really small surface mount ceramic capacitors on the side of the PCB with the most black colored chips).

Apparently the designer thought it would be a good idea to print high voltage for 110V, which I think is a bit hyperbole but fair game for a device normally carrying only about 5V max.

I do think that this device won't cause a great deal of damage to most computers. The reason is that the DC-content won't get very far along the signal lines because there are coupling capacitors (AC-couplers) right at the connector of the USB signals, so to fry those, you need to dielectrically break them down (high enough voltage to discharge through the device destroying it), this obviously will cause the capacitors to fail, and when they fail, they might fail open or fail shorted (good ceramic cap designs fail open). If they fail open, then the voltage needed to again discharge through the device is now a lot higher. These coupling caps on the USB data lines are typically ~100nF and are about 30V or higher DC rated. Suppose you get past this set of capacitors because they fail-short (shorted after failure), then you'll have to fry the USB chipset's output drivers (typically some kind of an op-amp). Suppose that op-amp is CMOS based, then you might go so far as to fry that chip, but the chances are, that these chips are not designed to dissipate all that much power. They'll heat up and not just fry, but may physically "pop" as the thermal expansion of the innards is much greater than the plastic casing. That's where the fun ends if they actually pop, and trust me, even the stronger non-CMOS op-amps are easily fried/smokes with just 30V improperly wired. Suppose you get past this stage, you'll have a ton of logic gates in the chipset itself, and you'll have to fry each and everyone of those and they all have to fail-short to allow the current to flow further down the line, and that's not even counting in that the chipset might shut down through safety measures built-in. If at any point it gets into the power supply (say shorting through an op-amp), it'll inevitably shut the computer down, at which point the whole process stops. This is also not factoring in that there are likely filtering capacitors on the signal line, or power lines which might be shorted by the device, then in which case, further current will flow straight to the ground and may shut the computer down.

I think there is reason to think that a device like this may harm a computer but without seeing it in action, I don't reason that there is going to be systemic damage and so on.
 
Maxx_Power said:
The print on the PCB "silk-screening" is literally whatever the designer wants to put on it. The large capacitors on the board (surface mount ceramics) are storing that 110V produced by the smaller IC chips (one of which is the DC-DC charge pump, probably the smallest chip next to the two really small surface mount ceramic capacitors on the side of the PCB with the most black colored chips).

Apparently the designer thought it would be a good idea to print high voltage for 110V, which I think is a bit hyperbole but fair game for a device normally carrying only about 5V max.

I do think that this device won't cause a great deal of damage to most computers. The reason is that the DC-content won't get very far along the signal lines because there are coupling capacitors (AC-couplers) right at the connector of the USB signals, so to fry those, you need to dielectrically break them down (high enough voltage to discharge through the device destroying it), this obviously will cause the capacitors to fail, and when they fail, they might fail open or fail shorted (good ceramic cap designs fail open). If they fail open, then the voltage needed to again discharge through the device is now a lot higher. These coupling caps on the USB data lines are typically ~100nF and are about 30V or higher DC rated. Suppose you get past this set of capacitors because they fail-short (shorted after failure), then you'll have to fry the USB chipset's output drivers (typically some kind of an op-amp). Suppose that op-amp is CMOS based, then you might go so far as to fry that chip, but the chances are, that these chips are not designed to dissipate all that much power. They'll heat up and not just fry, but may physically "pop" as the thermal expansion of the innards is much greater than the plastic casing. That's where the fun ends if they actually pop, and trust me, even the stronger non-CMOS op-amps are easily fried/smokes with just 30V improperly wired. Suppose you get past this stage, you'll have a ton of logic gates in the chipset itself, and you'll have to fry each and everyone of those and they all have to fail-short to allow the current to flow further down the line, and that's not even counting in that the chipset might shut down through safety measures built-in. If at any point it gets into the power supply (say shorting through an op-amp), it'll inevitably shut the computer down, at which point the whole process stops. This is also not factoring in that there are likely filtering capacitors on the signal line, or power lines which might be shorted by the device, then in which case, further current will flow straight to the ground and may shut the computer down.

I think there is reason to think that a device like this may harm a computer but without seeing it in action, I don't reason that there is going to be systemic damage and so on.
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The damage may actually stop at the flip-flop in the root hub now that I think about it. Still, blowing any function, especially in a portable machine would ruin my day.
 
i'm amazed that, with so many experts in this thread, everyone says something different. not sure if that says something about the reliability of physics or that of said "experts".
 
temujin987 said:
i'm amazed that, with so many experts in this thread, everyone says something different. not sure if that says something about the reliability of physics or that of said "experts".
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The problem is to take into account of all the different implementations of USB controller logics and circuit board layouts on all the different computers that this thing can plug into. I don't think you appreciate the task at hand to postulate the damage without actually trying it on hundreds of different computers and then do failure forensics. A change of one coupling capacitor or the addition of a common-mode filter at the USB data lines can change a LOT of things down the chain for propagating current. The task at hand literally amounts to predicting how much a house would be damaged if it was hit by lightning at the rooftops.

This is an engineering practice and experience helps, but no one has thus far claimed to be an expert.
 
temujin987 said:
i'm amazed that, with so many experts in this thread, everyone says something different. not sure if that says something about the reliability of physics or that of said "experts".
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I'm amazed that so many people come into this thread calling out people who never claimed to be experts, but not actually contributing their own "expertise" or saying anything useful. The people in here that actually are, are speculating on the results of plugging something like this in. Without actually testing it, and having empirical data, all we can do is make educated guess. Any number of outcomes are possible, due to protections that are either in place or not in a given machine, the specifications of the parts in both the machine and the little device in question. So far, I haven't seen anything that wouldn't qualify as a semi-educated guess or higher here really. I design analog circuits as a side business for modular synthesizers. I work with this stuff daily, and am also a systems administrator, so I work with computers/servers/networks daily as well. I still can only guess at what would be damaged when this is plugged in. I'd actually love to see it tested out on a sacrificial computer.
 
temujin987 said:
i'm amazed that, with so many experts in this thread, everyone says something different. not sure if that says something about the reliability of physics or that of said "experts".
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It's because there are too many variables. All we have to go on is a picture and a brief description from the maker. There are no formal test results. No measurements. Not even a circuit diagram. Basically, we're just reverse engineering based on a picture and experience. Every USB controller and its limits and failure modes will be different as well.

It's like taking a picture of a car and then trying to guess it's acceleration, mileage, cost, top speed, power, sound, and comfort. You can make informed guesses based on experience, but without the details and actual tests, it's just informed, albeit fairly well informed, speculation.
 
lcpiper said:
I'm just saying the device doesn't look to me like it's representative of the real deal. Come on, the PCB has "High Voltage" printed on it in English, from a Russian website. Just saying.
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I said in my post that nobody even knows if this thing even works at all, so believe me, I'm skeptical as well.
 
lcpiper said:
OK, were getting closer. So tell me, why the "High Voltage" print on the PCB?

Seems the only way this makes sense is that the original device was some sort of USB amplifier or antenna and was modified for a new purpose or someone decided there was a need for a device that could destroy a computer quickly without causing great damage to the building it was in. Like a self destruct for spy laptops or a military application for destroying computers in the event a headquarters is being over run by the enemy.
Click to expand...
Check the motherboard in any electronics. Almost all of them will have English on them (due to English speaking countries being the primary buyers), and almost all of them are produced in a non-english speaking country like China.

If this was a one-off deal made by a small Russian company, I would expect the writing to be in Russian/Cyrillic also. However, they likely contracted out to some Chinese company to produce a small batch of these.
 
Based on what we can see, it should actually work. How well and to what extent the damage spreads are the questions.

On the English labeling for the PCB, most PCBs that I've seen are labeled in English regardless of where they come from.
 
J3RK said:
Based on what we can see, it should actually work. How well and to what extent the damage spreads are the questions.

On the English labeling for the PCB, most PCBs that I've seen are labeled in English regardless of where they come from.
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Ah, the Captain beat me to it.
 
J3RK said:
Sorry if I came off a little J3RKish there. That was the second time I saw a post like that in this thread. Got a little irritated.
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hmm? no i meant kyle, the resident [H]ardware tester, should give it a try
 
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