Klipsch Promedia 5.1's - Amp repair

kent said:
Hey, can anyone tell me the specifics on what kind of receiver I need to buy to ensure the satellites/center work?
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No receiver comes to mind that wouldn't work, I've used 2 different ones now (1st got fried by a weird power anomaly) and they have both been flawless. There isn't anything special about the satellites that differentiates them from other speakers.
 
I want to make a couple of comments about measuring around J13. J5, J6, J3 and J4 on the AC to DC converter board. The power supplies for the satellites and sub are floating at this point in the circuit. That means that the only valid measurements that can be made are between the desired point and it's proper reference. To quote the text at Dale Thompson's site,

"The auxiliary voltages (+/-15) are created using a single winding that is full-wave rectified to create bipolar rails referenced to ground. The transformer windings used provide about +/-33V. While the auxiliary voltage is referenced to circuit ground, the buck converter's specific implementation means the main output is not ground referenced until the output of the buck converter. In addition to the +/-15V supplied, separate windings produce a +22V output referenced to the negative terminal of the floating 56Voutput and a +32V output referenced to the negative terminal of the floating 85Voutput."

And also,

"The rectified line voltage is transformed and galvanically isolated to create a unipolar main rail for the buck converter; roughly 56 Vdc for the satellite converter and 85 Vdc for the sub-woofer converter."

What this means practically is that when measuring J13 pin 1 (+15V) or pin 3 (-15V) the proper place to connect your voltmeter common (black lead) is to J13 pin 2, though in this instance any circuit ground should be ok as pins 1 and 3 are referenced to the main circuit ground.

Pin 4 of J13 (+22V) is referenced to J6 on the AC to DC board or alternatively to T6 on the digital board if that is easier to access. This means that to obtain the correct reading on pin 4 your voltmeter common lead must be attached to J6 or T6. For Pin 5 (+32V) your common must be attached to J4 of the AC to DC board or T2 of the digital board. All pin and jack references as shown on the schematics on that site. I mention again the quotes I posted, these are unipolar supplies at this point. This means there is no negative voltage rail at this point. And the supplies are isolated and floating as far as DC voltages are concerned. This last means that the values shown on the schematic will only be obtained if you are using the proper point for your reference. Use of any other point in the circuit will result in a reading that is determined by leakages in your voltmeter or in your particular circuits capacitors, etc.

Attaching your common voltmeter lead to any other points in the circuit will give readings that are quite probably in error.

For measuring the 56V supply, attaching your voltmeter leads to J5 and J6 should show 56V if your system is operating properly. For the 85V supply use J3 and J4 to obtain an 85V reading if your supply is operating properly.

I hope this helps people in making accurate measurements while they are trying to diagnose where their problems are occurring.

Michael
 
Excellent points Michael! I just figured this out and was going to post but you beat me to it.

With the above clarification, I am getting 50V between J5/J6 and 77V between J3/J4. Not exactly 56 and 85 but pretty close so should I be concerned?

What I am concerned about is J13.4. It should be 34V above J6 and I am only getting 22V above. In the vicinity of Q10, on both sides of the PCB, I see what appear to be burn marks. When I measure C32(C39 in schematic) I am getting 5uF instead of 22uF. I am thinking that Q10 or Z11 are toast. From experience, Zener typically fail into a short but mine is still open so I leaning towards replacing Q10. The resistors in that area, 680 and 5110 are fine.

I also checked D10 and D3 and these are also ok.

Could a bad Q10 explain my hissing noise?
 
vkakula,

50 and 77 are a bit low for sure. Pin 4 of J13 should be 22 Vdc above J6. Pin 5 should be 32 Vdc above J4. Q10 only sets the 22Vdc reference and doesn't have anything to do with the 32Vdc reference used by the subs. You can measure the voltage, carefully, at the top of Z11 and it should show near 22Vdc. Hiss denotes high frequency noise, so I might suspect a capacitor somewhere in the power supply that is open and not filtering. Alternatively, one of the 1000 uF 63V caps in the 56V supply might be leaking and drawing down the voltages by loading the transformer. How hot do your transformer and your diodes run? Mind, I could be completely off base as I am only a novice myself.

Michael
 
After some more debugging, I can tell that the hiss and occasional spiking is coming from the sub. The satellites are crystal clear. Initially, the sub hisses and I can literally hear one of the tall coils on the digital converter board hissing as well. Once the system warms up, the hissing cuts in and out. As I increase the system volume, the sub starts clicking and with every click the hiss returns only to go away after a little bit and return with the next click.

I noticed that the heat sinks on the AC2DC converter are really hot. The hottest one is the heatsink cooling the rectifiers getting up to 150F. The heatsink on the IRF740s runs 30-40 degrees cooler. R27 is at 155F. To test temperature/heat influence, I turned the volume way up to a point where with every beat the sub was clicking and sprayed the heatsinks and R27 with an instant chiller. This had no impact on the sub problem so I’m starting to move to the Digital Converter board as potential source of the problem.

For what it’s worth, I’m in the middle of upgrading my HT audio system and am coming close to settling on the DT Procinema 800. I never even bothered looking at the Klipsch setups due to my experience with these Promedias. Their speakers may be nice but I just can’t forgive them screwing me when I was poor and in college.
 
I remeasured J13 with the information that Michael posted and all the pins are the correct voltage. The 56 volt and 85 supply voltages are there are well.

The two outer pins of D10 measured 143.4 Center pin measured 83.4v

The two pins of the Transformer connected to D10 measured 143.4 on both points.

The next 2 pins measured 164.5v and 167.5
next 2 pins measured 170.6 and 170.4

R529 84v, 120v
680ohm reads 84.3 on both sides
Q10 reads 120v 120v (center pin) 84v
D3 reads 136.9v and 171v

J1 84v
J2 84v
J5 140v
J6 83.7v

Is there anything else I should check to narrow down the culprit further?
 
vykula,

Did the pin 5 J13 voltage turn out to be correct at 32 Vdc? Your symptoms sound very like mine were except that mine were on the sats and not on the sub. Could be R25 or D3 or C25 (47 uF 50V).

Is R27 the 100k that is on the other side of the transformer?

M
 
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Michael, J13.5 was fine at 32V but J13.4 was 10 volts too low. Once I determined that the hiss and popping was coming from the sub and not the sats, I stopped messing with the AC2DC board since it appears to be fine.

The more I poke, the more convinced I am that my Bash 1011 board is flaky. Next step is to swap the 1011 boards and see if the problem moves to the sats. If so, then I'll check to see if I can replace discrete components on the Bash1011. Some are mentioning solder problems but when I wiggle the sub module H1 I do not notice any change in performance.

R27 is a 4.7ohm right next to the transformer pin 18. The 100k that you're talking about is the top one on the daughter card and it gets piping hot as well.
 
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vkakula,

I finally found R27. Eyes aren't what they used to be. Sounds like you might be right that it is on the digital board. The audible output you get does sound like what I got in my sats with a slight hiss and then clicking with a higher input signal or if I turned up the output.

M
 
fez says,
I remeasured J13 with the information that Michael posted and all the pins are the correct voltage. The 56 volt and 85 supply voltages are there are well.

The two outer pins of D10 measured 143.4 Center pin measured 83.4v

The two pins of the Transformer connected to D10 measured 143.4 on both points.

The next 2 pins measured 164.5v and 167.5
next 2 pins measured 170.6 and 170.4

R529 84v, 120v
680ohm reads 84.3 on both sides
Q10 reads 120v 120v (center pin) 84v
D3 reads 136.9v and 171v

J1 84v
J2 84v
J5 140v
J6 83.7v

Is there anything else I should check to narrow down the culprit further?

So are you saying that all the voltages on J13 and the 56Vdc and the 85Vdc are OK? Did you measure them both when your system was working properly and when it was muffled?

M
 
Hello ,
I have owned these Promedia 5.1's since they came out (first series). I just sent back my fifth amp to Klipsch for repair. It seems as though the replacements sometimes are not very good.
My questions are:
1) If I just keep the speakers can anyone recommend a good 5.1 receiver/sub combo (for around $2-300) ?
2) Also, would I be better off buying a THX receiver to match the speakers?
I really enjoy the Klipsch speakers for my computer, however these amps have gotten very costly for repairs. Thanks in advance for any replies.
 
Cisgo said:
Hello ,
I have owned these Promedia 5.1's since they came out (first series). I just sent back my fifth amp to Klipsch for repair. It seems as though the replacements sometimes are not very good.
My questions are:
1) If I just keep the speakers can anyone recommend a good 5.1 receiver/sub combo (for around $2-300) ?
Click to expand...

From Parts Express you can find a 100w (think it's larger now, actually) powered sub for about $100. It's a Dayton brand. I bought a 10"/100w unit about 5 1/2 years ago (plugs in the SWS port on the Klipsch sub) and it's been nice.

I am also getting ready to buy a receiver as I have killed several amps.

2) Also, would I be better off buying a THX receiver to match the speakers?
I really enjoy the Klipsch speakers for my computer, however these amps have gotten very costly for repairs. Thanks in advance for any replies.
Click to expand...

THX is marketing. It's nice, but not required.

I'm buying the $200 Insignia 5.1-HD (does DDP, DDHD, DTS-HD, DTS-M-HD formats) because it's cheap (Best Buy)
 
I replaced all three 22uf caps on the ac-dc converter board and now the sound plays for 20 seconds before it gets distorted instead of 10 seconds. I still hear squeeling from the speakers with no audio playing. I measured across Z11 and got nothing. I am assuming that possibly Z11 is bad. Unfortunately I don't have that zener diode to swap out with a good one.
 
fez, I measured across the zener and am getting 22V so since you're getting 0, this most likely means that the zener is toast. If the zener is toast, then most likely Q10 is toast since it would be always on and probably burnt up. You should also check the 680 ohm resistor in that series.

I spent 5 minutes today swapping the two Bash 1011 boards and the problem did not move. :)< I am still getting hissing and clicking coming from the Sub. The one problem that I have not yet resolved is C39 on the AC2DC coming up as 5uF instead of 22. When I have a bit more time, I will replace C39 and Q10 just in case. Also will move MR7 up and off of the daughter board so that its heat contribution will not ruin anything else on the daughter board.
 
fez,

Look at the 5110 Ohm R29 as well. The current for the zener flows through that so if it is open there would be no voltage on it.

M
 
vkakula,

When I replaced Q10 I also replaced C39, partly on the theory that electrolytics are always suspect and partly because it made it easier to work on Q10 after it was pulled. One question, is it possible you have the subwoofer and satellite power leads switched on the input/output board? I ask because your symptoms sound identical to mine, but in the other section.

M
 
After upgrading some resistors on the daughter board I noticed that there was an open solder joint on the bash chip. However when I hooked everything back up I still get the same result. Sound plays for 2 min then distorted for 5 seconds then it plays fine. Endless cycle.
With no sound going to the speakers it hisses. I have replaced almost everything on the acdc board except the zener diode, and the 1000uf caps which are on backorder. I read a few posts on other forums where replacing the 1000uf caps resolved the hissing.
 
I haven't had much time to work on this lately but like you Fez, I initially started by replacing parts on the AC2DC board with no resolution. My voltages did return to normal levels however. After probing some more signals on the I/O board I noticed that the hissing and clicking matched with the AMP-OC signal going to the sub amplifier. I don't have time now to figure out why it's going overcurrent but if this is because of the sub amplifier, then it will be a bee itch to replace.
 
Same here I have had no time to investigate further. I am pretty close to just ebaying these suckers and buying some nice headphones.
 
/cries....I need a new amp for my Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 system. I dont think mine can be fixed. Anyone know where I can get one? Can I get one from Klipsch? Maybe even Eliot ? Ide also be interested in a upgraded one if thats possible
 
Spyhawk said:
/cries....I need a new amp for my Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 system. I dont think mine can be fixed. Anyone know where I can get one? Can I get one from Klipsch? Maybe even Eliot ? Ide also be interested in a upgraded one if thats possible
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Just curious... what makes you think that your amp cannot be fixed? Sounds like Elliot can fix these things quite well although the turnaround time may be spotty.

Amps do show up regularly on eBay although I'm not sure I'd buy one unless the seller guarantees that it is going to work. There is an almost complete 5.1 system (missing the center channel speaker) that is for sale right now that is being sold "as is". When I questioned the buyer and asked him if it works or not, he replied that the amp does have some issues. I don't know why he didn't put that into auction description. Point is, ask the seller pointed questions before you buy any subwoofer off of eBay.
 
These usits last about 3 to 5 years and then die due to heat mostly.
Contact [email protected]
He fixes Klipsch Amps and he also has designed a cooling kit add in that will greatly extend the life of your unit. He fixed one for me, added the cooling and he did it fast and at a reasonable price.
 
Spyhawk said:
/cries....I need a new amp for my Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 system. I dont think mine can be fixed. Anyone know where I can get one? Can I get one from Klipsch?
Click to expand...

You can probably still get one from Klipsch. Call their support and they will set it up for you.

It cost me under $100 (including shipping them my old amp) and I got a 100% brand new amp back. Its been good to me so far.

However you will need to deal with the heat. My best solution is to replace the amp with a blank metal plate with two bananna jacks hooked to the sub wires. Build a ventilated little box for the new amp and add wire a couple of bananna jacks to the sub power pins (mind the polarity). Run the some quality cables between the two and you should be able to preserve your sub's sound quality 100% and keep the amp cool.
 
ecmaster76 said:
You can probably still get one from Klipsch. Call their support and they will set it up for you.

It cost me under $100 (including shipping them my old amp) and I got a 100% brand new amp back. Its been good to me so far.

However you will need to deal with the heat. My best solution is to replace the amp with a blank metal plate with two bananna jacks hooked to the sub wires. Build a ventilated little box for the new amp and add wire a couple of bananna jacks to the sub power pins (mind the polarity). Run the some quality cables between the two and you should be able to preserve your sub's sound quality 100% and keep the amp cool.
Click to expand...

That sounds like an excellent solution.
What I did was add fans which move the air around inside and make the backplate a more eficient heatsink, even without vent holes which would degrade the bass. Your solution is far more eligant :)
 
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Well after a couple of aborted attempts it appears that I've finally fixed my amp. It's been running fine for over a week now and it's great to be able to listen to some decent sound again. Woohoo!!!

I first started hearing problems with the amp last spring when I would occasionally start hearing the dreaded hissing, snap, crackle and pop noises coming from the system. At first it wasn't very loud but it gradually grew louder as time went by. Finally during the summer it stopped putting out any sound at all even though the control box still seemed to function normally.

After letting the amp sit around for a few months I took it apart but I couldn't see anything wrong with it. Of course, at that time I really didn't have any idea what to look for so I went to the net and did a google search on Klipsch 5.1 problems to see if I could get any tips or hints and was amazed at how many problems people were having with these amps. This it turns out for me, was probably a good thing as it pointed me to this thread and also lead me to here. It was nice to be able to work on this unit with a decent schematic. My thanks go out to Dale Thompson and Evan Shultz for providing this.

After doing some studying and finally getting down to work the first thing I noticed was that my power supply outputs on the AC-DC converter board were very low. Around 3 volts and -3 volts at J13 pins 1 and 3 respectively. I was also wasn't seeing much output out of the 56+ and 86+ outputs either. So using an ohmmeter, I was able to determine that Q1 was shorted out and that two of the four FETs on the subwoofer amplifier board were also shorted. Checking all of the capacitors on the AC-DC converter board using a ESR meter revealed that all three 22uF 50V caps (C519, C520, and C532) were bad. After reading of several problems with resistors located on the daughter board I removed it and discovered that I also had a few burned out resistors that were either totally open or were severely out of tolerance.

So I ordered some parts and after they arrived installed them into the boards. Put everything back together, crossed my fingers and turned on the switch. FAIL!!! OK, take everything back apart. Discover that the two FETs are blown again on the subwoofer board. Also discovered that the two FET drivers on the digital converter board for the subwoofer (M1 and M2) were also toast. I probably missed those two the first time and that's why the subwoofer amplifier FETs shorted out again.

Fortunately I had order some spare FETs so I was able to replace all of the bad ones again, put everything back together and fired it up... now I'm getting sound again but I'm also getting the hissing and crackling. Crap! I let the amp run for about one-half hour when I heard a small pop. After that, I had no sound output again.

Lets try this again... take the unit apart only to discover that the two FETs on the subwoofer amplifier board and the two FETs that I had changed on the digital converter board were shot. Fortunately, nothing on the AC-DC converter board blew out. I had to order more parts this time and decided that I was going to have to replace the HC1011 BASH controller for the subwoofer also. Unfortunately, all of the regular channels that I could find to order one were out of stock (this was the beginning of December). I was finally able to order one from Harmon Audio about a month later. $24.16 per hybrid and about $3.79 to ship.

Replaced all of the damaged parts again, replaced the subwoofer BASH hybrid and put everything back together. Once more I crossed my fingers and turned on the unit... success!!! Played around with the controls just to make sure everything was working correctly and everything seems fine. Nice output from the subwoofer. Its been a long time since I've heard that.

After running the unit for a couple of hours I wanted to see just how hot things were getting inside the amp. In the past I have always left the unit powered on which probably resulted in the unit suffering its premature death to begin with (I guess I can't complain too much, my amp had been operating for over five years before it first broke down). I quickly removed the assembly out of the subwoofer before it had a chance to cool off and I then started to probe around to feel where any hot spots might be. I observed that large heatsink plate used for the amplifier boards was running only slightly warm. The two heatsinks on the digital converter board were fine. However, the two heatsinks on the AC-DC converter board, especially the one cooling U501, U502, D504 and D510 was running HOT. I could put my finger on it but only for about a second or so.

In my opinion this is the biggest design flaw of the unit. It wouldn't have taken that much more effort to design in a larger heatsink. It sounds like Elliot gets around this problem by using MIL-spec parts that are able to operate at a higher temperature. I used a different solution by simply increasing the thermal mass. I fabricated a pair of larger heatsinks using a strip of aluminum and a couple of old CPU heatsinks. I simply bolted these up to the existing heasinks on the AC-DC converter board. I also applied some Arctic Silver thermal paste between the two pieces. Refer to the pictures below.

Now after running the unit for several hours and then going inside to see how hot things are getting, I can report that the new heatsinks get warm but they are no longer running hot. I can hold my hand on any of the heatsinks for as long as I want now without any problems. This is a much better solution than running fans inside the amplifier IMHO.

FYI... One of the reasons why this thing warms up like it does is because it draws 36W of power at idle (turned on - no audio playing). Imagine running a 40W light bulb inside an insulated box. So if you want to save yourself some coin, turn the amp off when you are not using it.


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Sent Elliott my amp back in December, I'm a repeat (2nd) customer

Haven't heard from him since he said it would be after the new year. It's 3 weeks after the new year.

He's had my amp probably a month now
 
I tried to register the transaction dispute on PayPal but they said

Thank you for registering your complaint about this transaction. Unfortunately, this type of transaction is not eligible for PayPal dispute resolution. We encourage you to continue to work directly with your seller, as we have found that many misunderstandings reach amicable solutions through communication.


WTF

Is elliott a cheat
 
Thats why I back my pay pal with a major credit card. Pay Pal does little or nothing to help you but the credit card company will. Backing your pay pal with your bank acount leaves you out in the cold sometimes.
 
kent said:
Sent Elliott my amp back in December, I'm a repeat (2nd) customer

Haven't heard from him since he said it would be after the new year. It's 3 weeks after the new year.

He's had my amp probably a month now
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Kent,

I wouldn't worry about Elliott being a cheat. I sent mine to him in Aug 09' and he had it for over 3 months. Correspondence was lackluster at best with him ... promising my amp back in a few weeks which didn't happen, but he did do the work and I received my amp from him.
 
Stepleshepard did mine and had it back to me in 10 days and he apoligized for the delay as he was on a short vaction. I mean I sent it to him and I had it back in 10 days with the problem fixed and the cooling added.
Someone that takes months is obviousl;y not serious abouty providing service and what if there is a problem? You wait months for a reply?
No Thanks!
 
I bought a set of ALX speakers from Alienware years ago. It's a Klipsch setup with rc3 speakers, and the amp from the ultra 5.1 setup.

I made arrangements to send the amp to Elliot, and then I took a couple weeks longer than expected to get them shipped. I did send a couple emails that were basically, "you done yet?" and didn't get responses, but when I sent a request for tracking on the return, he responded that he would.

According to my emails, I sent the amp mid August, and he shipped it back mid September. Along with the repaired amp, he sent an email explaining that after he'd done the upgrades, the amp still was having issues, so he replaced the bash amp chip as well. He said waiting for the chip added an additional week, so he pretty much met his estimate we discussed before I sent the amp to him. It was a few days more, but with the explanation it was fine with me, especially considering I was late in shipping the amp to him... He did not charge extra for the bash chip either, and I can confirm it's been changed.

I'm happy to say that six months later my system is still working without a hitch. The sub sounds as good or better than it did when new. The cost was less than it would have been with Klipsch direct, they said they'd repair the amp for $125, but after reading the issues people had with their repairs only lasting short term, I decided to try Elliot.

From my experience, I'd recommend his services, but be prepared for scant communication during the process. It's a little nerve wracking to send off something like this to someone you don't know, but there are enough happy customers posting here and at the Klipsch forums that I took the chance. I'm happy with my choice.
 
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I had my set fail, had a make a decision and chose to send it to Klipsch for repairs. I've been happy for more than a year. But I do shut it off every night. No reason to let the subwoofer get warm/hot unnecessarily.
 
so, my 5.1's stopped working a few years ago, and have been sitting in my closet since. I haven't gamed much in the last few years, so didn't really mind. Now I'm listening to a lot more music on my PC, and really want them back :)


Same basic problem a lot of people have had, system powers on, I get sound from headphones, nothing from speakers or sub. Checked and I'm not getting voltage out of the ac/dc power board. Then I noticed this:
promedia-db.jpg


also, Q501 is blown (there is actually a hole in the side of it, and one leg is no longer connected:
promedia-q501.jpg


Quite a few of the resistors on the daughter board are bad, and most of the diodes appear to be fried too (I can get a reading both ways on some, and in niether direction on others.)

Those of you with more experience on this amp, if I repair the daughter board, and replace the fried mosfet, do you think that will fix the problem, or did something else cause these parts to fry? I was thinking of replacing all of the parts in sysjack/racerc2000's lists, plus the additional daughter baord components.

Thanks,
Brian
 
I bought a receiver to use the Klipsch speakers but am getting my amp repaired by elliott.

How do I use my klipsch subwoofer with my new receiver
 
You can connect the sub speaker itself directly to the amp subwoofer output but I do not know what special equilization the sub requires (what is built into the Klipsch Amp). I do not know how well it will work with a different amp unless you match the impedience as well as the equilization it was designed for.
If he is reparing it and you are going to use it with the repared amp you just reinstall the Klipsch amp and reconnect the sub wires.
 
Does the Stepleshepard guy or elliot mentioned in this thread have a website detailing what they do?
 
zauberer said:
Those of you with more experience on this amp, if I repair the daughter board, and replace the fried mosfet, do you think that will fix the problem, or did something else cause these parts to fry? I was thinking of replacing all of the parts in sysjack/racerc2000's lists, plus the additional daughter baord components.
Click to expand...


I would also check the FETs for shorts on the digital converter board especially on the subwoofer side (M1 & M2: IRF530Ns) and on the amplifier board (M1 thru M4) for the subwoofer.

You might want to consider adding some thermal mass to your power supply heatsink. Refer to the pictures I posted previously.
 
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