Kids Are Failing, It's All Wikipedia's Fault!

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According to the Scottish Parent Teacher Council, kids are failing in school because of Wikipedia and sites like it. The council is worried that students don't know how to research anymore and they put too much faith in the validity of online resources.

According to the report, Eleanor Coner, the SPTC's information officer, said: "Children are very IT-savvy, but they are rubbish at researching." She noted that today's students do the majority of their research online instead of using books or other resources that could be found at the library.
 
Absolutely true. Our youth has no idea how to research in books anymore. When I was in school, online works cited had to be kept to a minimum. Wikipedia was launched a year before I started college, so it was never of much help until later, but we were smart enough to know that our English professors wouldn't accept it as a source.

Luckily, Encyclopedia Britannica is pulling a Wikipedia, only this time all edits have to go through E.B. scholars. :)
 
Competition for teachers and librarians, why wouldn't they hate it?

Teachers calls it rubbish, truth of the matter is that the "rubbish" they read is more accurate than the "rubbish" they teach.
 
That may be a bit extreme to blame it all on internet research. How many parents still have book encyclopedias in their house? Other than missing the bus to stay in the school library, where else are they going to get the information?

There is a definate case for too much technology being in kids lives though. School has a hell-uv-a time competing with computer games and all the other techno confusion our kids do in their spare time once they're home.. It's a rare kid that has legible handwriting anymore for example. They type everything and have access to spell-checkers. Why learn to spell or write? The same goes for research it appears.
 
WOW, I saw this comming 10 years ago...

I used to work for a major ISP (dial up days) and would get calls all the time about not being able to get online, and thier kids needed to do so to do thier homework.

I was ok, wait, since when is getting online needed to do homework? At the time I was only 7 or so years out of highschool myself, and while I was a computer geek. I never needed the internet to do homework.

So my comment to them was to actually take thier children to a library and allow them to really learn to do research.

I think school systems have now become too dependent on computers and the internet, and not teaching the base skills needed for learning, and doing research.

File this next to the OLPC project that also shows students failing in much the same way. I knew that was a mistake, and really dumb when some schools were forcing families to purchase computers for thier children.

What happened to pen, paper, and books!!! Don't get me wrong I love technology and computer geek. But one must learn to crawl before walking, to then allow you to run.

::Rant Done::
 
First, I would hate to have gone to school whereever you're going to be failing over a few incorrect facts in a research paper. Second, online resources really aren't that bad. I'm a junior in college now, and I've written my fair share of research papers. Teachers always have wanted published, journal sources, which are sometimes bullshit and biased themselves. True you have to be careful when using online resources, but from respectable sites they're just as viable at times. I actually just finished a class for the first summer session, and our teachered allowed us to use any sources we wanted; of course I went with all internet sources.... hey it's a summer class haha. Anyways, I really didn't run into any issues with incorrect information, and it was alot easier and less stressful not having to deal with journals and their obfusticated wordiness.
 
Competition for teachers and librarians, why wouldn't they hate it?

Teachers calls it rubbish, truth of the matter is that the "rubbish" they read is more accurate than the "rubbish" they teach.

I actually agree with this too. Did you know at most universities, if you decide to be a librarian they will actually give you a full ride? I didn't hear anything about this until I picked up a pamplet the other day as I was waiting to see someone. I went home looked around, and it looks like everyone's deseperate for librarians now. It's a dying race.
 
Link to that? That sounds way better then Wiki.

I think I heard it on NPR, but here's a good article about it.
Encyclopedia Britannica to let readers contribute, à la Wikipedia

“By inviting a larger range of people to contribute and collaborate, we can produce more coverage,” said Britannica spokesman Tom Panelas. “People in the community can contribute to the improvement of Encyclopedia Britannica."

The new site will not be a free-for-all. The core encyclopedia will continue to be edited and will bear the imprimatur “Britannica Checked.” But Britannica will now let outsiders create articles, essays and multi-media presentations. There will be proper attribution. And Britannica still keeps gatekeepers; don’t expect an entry on “Baywatch” actress Pamela Anderson.

“Bloggers, webmasters, online journalists and anyone else who publishes regularly on the Internet can now get free subscriptions to Britannica Online (www.britannica.com). Anyone interested in participating in Britannica’s new WebShare initiative can apply for a free subscription at http://signup.eb.com or get more information at http://britannicanet.com.
 
I do admit that my brother in fact has this problem of putting more weight to internet research than traditional methods of research... however, i blame it more on the fact that it's happening 'at home'.

I'm 25 years old so i'm sort of in the mid generation ... growing up i went to the library, even through college, libraries were still the norm. however it's only been the last few years that social networking as well as major online researching (such as wikipedia) have gotten it's major popularity. my brother on the other hand has MAYBE visited the library 2-3 times in his entire life and mostly that was when he was really young. now he's 17 and would rather print out all the material off of wiki or some online site and learn from that. schools are now offering online classes for high school level courses...

back to my point about it being done 'at home', there are more distractions. he's got his 360 sitting there. music blaring and a nagging gf always constantly bugging him.

so it has far less to do with wiki itself but the distractions that come from researching from home rather than an isolated place such as a library. the internet is a very powerful research tool... however it is also the source of the 2 minutes of fame videos you find on youtube.. so really you just have to know how to get your information and the validity of that information... in today's world, everyone on the internet can have a Masters and PH.D and give out medical advice... yeahhhh ok
 
You hear that: it is ALWAYS the inanimate object's fault, it's NEVER the child, parents', or teacher's fault!!!
 
Blaming wikipedia? LOL How retarded is that.

I hate it when people blame their failings on technology\machines.

If you can't challenge students in the face of current technology you need to go back to school, or stop teaching.

BTW, I don't think this is the current state of education. I actually think that the majority of teachers my kids have are pretty good at leveragin technology, but still exposing them to broader reaserch.

Hell, when I "try" to help my kids with their homework, I am challenged a lot of the time, because they are encouraged to think as opposed to just look up, or remember facts.
 
Wikipedia gives decent summaries, but it should never be the final source for college-level papers and probably not for highschoolers either.

The article isn't citing online research in general (which includes a lot of academic databases like JSTOR), but just the ultra-easy, ultra-fast sources or stuff they pull off of blogs and other untrustworthy sites.

It's fair to argue that Wikipedia is better than most encyclopedias, but no one above grade school should be writing papers with encyclopedia entries either.
 
To the people that are defending Wiki...

Really?

Don't get me wrong, I use wikipedia almost on a daily basis to read up on something I'd like to know more about, but even the founders admit that Wiki has serious quality problems.
Bottom line, I think Wiki should be used as a general reference or a jump-off point to begin research, but never as a valid source for a research paper.

But to imply that kids are failing because of Wiki.... lawl.
They couldn't find a better red herring than that?
 
Wikipedia gives decent summaries, but it should never be the final source for college-level papers and probably not for highschoolers either.

The article isn't citing online research in general (which includes a lot of academic databases like JSTOR), but just the ultra-easy, ultra-fast sources or stuff they pull off of blogs and other untrustworthy sites.

It's fair to argue that Wikipedia is better than most encyclopedias, but no one above grade school should be writing papers with encyclopedia entries either.

And just to clarify, I don't blame Wikipedia for the problems in the sense that they should change anything about how it operates, but I do think grades should be marked down for citing it.
 
I do admit that my brother in fact has this problem of putting more weight to internet research than traditional methods of research... however, i blame it more on the fact that it's happening 'at home'.

I'm 25 years old so i'm sort of in the mid generation ... growing up i went to the library, even through college, libraries were still the norm. however it's only been the last few years that social networking as well as major online researching (such as wikipedia) have gotten it's major popularity. my brother on the other hand has MAYBE visited the library 2-3 times in his entire life and mostly that was when he was really young. now he's 17 and would rather print out all the material off of wiki or some online site and learn from that. schools are now offering online classes for high school level courses...

back to my point about it being done 'at home', there are more distractions. he's got his 360 sitting there. music blaring and a nagging gf always constantly bugging him.

so it has far less to do with wiki itself but the distractions that come from researching from home rather than an isolated place such as a library. the internet is a very powerful research tool... however it is also the source of the 2 minutes of fame videos you find on youtube.. so really you just have to know how to get your information and the validity of that information... in today's world, everyone on the internet can have a Masters and PH.D and give out medical advice... yeahhhh ok

That is a good point. I remember being younger (27 now) and when you had a research paper for a class you would spent a class period or two in the school library to get somebooks for your paper. Now adays schools have so much to teach kids that they wouldn't do something like that instead they have you go on your own time. Just like how you didn't have to type any papers when I was younger. As they knew not everyone had a type writer or computer. Now adays they want every paper typed on a computer. So yes, everything is becoming more at home than it was before.
 
Wikipedia gives decent summaries, but it should never be the final source for college-level papers and probably not for highschoolers either.

The article isn't citing online research in general (which includes a lot of academic databases like JSTOR), but just the ultra-easy, ultra-fast sources or stuff they pull off of blogs and other untrustworthy sites.

It's fair to argue that Wikipedia is better than most encyclopedias, but no one above grade school should be writing papers with encyclopedia entries either.

Exactly, kids have tried to get away with poor research before wikipedia and they'll try after wikipedia. If there's a failure it's in the school systems and teachers not teaching proper research and source evaluation to their students. This is a key subject that should start no later than the junior high/middle school level.
 
I gave the article a quick read and they do actually get to the truth of the matter in their closing.

Perhaps not. If anything, this problem could point to the fact that educational institutions need to adapt their curriculums to include teaching students what real research is all about. A Google search may or may not lead them to valuable resources online, but many students today clearly don't know how to differentiate between what's legitimate and what's not. Being able to look at a piece of information online and challenge it in order to determine whether or not it is a fact is simply not a skill that many online users have. However, once this process is learned, students can apply it throughout their education - no matter what medium they use for research.
 
The problem is not the online research itself, but the absence of online access to the books.
When all the books get digitalized there will be no such problem.
 
The problem is not the online research itself, but the absence of online access to the books.
When all the books get digitalized there will be no such problem.

Ding +1

Why do people think that a book that you can hold has any more value than a book you read on a monitor. They are the exact same thing. Wiki was just the gate to start getting books and research material online to be used in that way. I swear even people in their 20's are starting to get a lawn and kids complex going.
 
Many of the entries in Wikipedia have references at the bottom of the page. Wikipedia could be used as an index. I've seen some that have a large list sources of the information.

But say for instance you do a report on the history of video games. Don't count on any encyclopedia and most books in libraries are significantly behind the times.
 
The problem at my university was that students were actually citing the wikipedia articles themselves and not the sources where the information came from. That being said, I think that people are quick to blame the internet for issues that it isnt directly responsible for. I remember back in high school when we didnt have internet access at school, and we were required to cite sources out of our school library, and kids didnt do any better citing books than they do internet sources now. I know for myself, there is FAR more credible (read: scientific journals, etc) information on the internet as opposed to a stodgy, static library. This sounds like just another case of "Blame a factor to avoid the issue" to me.
 
Ding +1

Why do people think that a book that you can hold has any more value than a book you read on a monitor. They are the exact same thing. Wiki was just the gate to start getting books and research material online to be used in that way. I swear even people in their 20's are starting to get a lawn and kids complex going.

No one said a digitized book was any less valid than a physical one, just like fuel cells 'could' potentially replace fossil fuels. The fact that the world is too lazy, cheap and slow to invest the billions of dollars to initiate these types of changes, makes certain that this type of thing probably won't be seen in our lifetime.
 
Wiki was just the gate to start getting books and research material online to be used in that way.

I seriously doubt that people would have problems with wikipedia (other than the obvious copyright infringment) IF everything on it was directly from books and research material (other than the obvious copyright infringment). Unfortunately, that's not the case.


I swear even people in their 20's are starting to get a lawn and kids complex going.

Damn kids! Stay off my lawn! And by 'Stay off' I mean 'stop using' and by 'my lawn' I mean shitty sources for research papers.' :D
 
No one said a digitized book was any less valid than a physical one, just like fuel cells 'could' potentially replace fossil fuels. The fact that the world is too lazy, cheap and slow to invest the billions of dollars to initiate these types of changes, makes certain that this type of thing probably won't be seen in our lifetime.

Don't forget greedy.... I remember something called the Google Books Library Project, where Google was attempting to digitize a bunch of library collections, including the New York Public Library.
Last I heard, Google had to stop because dickhead publishing companies were threatening to sue.
 
The biggest problem with Internet research is not really the quality of the website, since books can have wrong information, the problem lies with just 2 words - copy/paste.

When researching from books you have to write/type out the information, being able to copy/paste whole aticles from wiki and the like removes the need to even read the info your trying to gather.
 
I know someone that turned in a paper last year that cited a Wikipedia entry as a reference and got an F on the paper because by the time the paper was finished and turned in for grading....the Wikipedia entry had been changed...deleting the data she cited in her paper.

When my friend asked the teacher to go back through the edits made on the Wikipedia page for verification, the teacher said this "No. I am going to put as much effort into grading this paper as you did writing it. I looked at Wikipedia, the entry did not match the material cited so I moved on."

Ouch. That is Wikipedia biting you in the ass right there. :eek:
 
I know someone that turned in a paper last year that cited a Wikipedia entry as a reference and got an F on the paper because by the time the paper was finished and turned in for grading....the Wikipedia entry had been changed...deleting the data she cited in her paper.

When my friend asked the teacher to go back through the edits made on the Wikipedia page for verification, the teacher said this "No. I am going to put as much effort into grading this paper as you did writing it. I looked at Wikipedia, the entry did not match the material cited so I moved on."

Ouch. That is Wikipedia biting you in the ass right there. :eek:

Also a unrealistic teacher. What happens if a physical book was cited, do you think the teacher is actually going to rent one and find out if the cited words are factual? No. What if the teacher does and can't locate this cited book?

The reality of it is that teachers are also getting lazy... the door swings both ways. Think about all the teachers who checks citations by simply submitting the paper to turnitin.com... everyone is doing it now... and yet they have an issue with students using an internet source.


Teachers are just as guilty as students and even more so becuase they hold the power to accept works with internet citations.
 
Welcome to ten years ago! Why does it take the positions of power years to understand what is going on. When I was in school, teachers limited the number of internet sources used. It’s understandable that kids are learning how to use online resources and practice time management by quickly citing these texts. My appeal is that in today’s day and age, someone using sites like Wiki should be easy to catch. Search engines are darn good at picking up websites text - so use it - and continue to call them out on it! But that does require work be the teacher. And for the sluthy kids, ask them to repeat verbatim to cite specific text. If you written any text and/or papers, you usually spend time with the cited work; much unlike the point - copy - pasters...
Younger people these days seem to have no care for actually producing good work, but rather just getting by. That’s not to say there aren’t some really hard working kids out there. It boils down to personal decision making and/or parenting.
 
I know someone that turned in a paper last year that cited a Wikipedia entry as a reference and got an F on the paper because by the time the paper was finished and turned in for grading....the Wikipedia entry had been changed...deleting the data she cited in her paper.

When my friend asked the teacher to go back through the edits made on the Wikipedia page for verification, the teacher said this "No. I am going to put as much effort into grading this paper as you did writing it. I looked at Wikipedia, the entry did not match the material cited so I moved on."

Ouch. That is Wikipedia biting you in the ass right there. :eek:

That goes to show that you should cite the original source of information.

I've only used Wikipedia as a reference rather than to obtain all the facts from. To use it in a works cited tells me that "you" didn't take the time to research the topic.
 
Welcome to ten years ago! Why does it take the positions of power years to understand what is going on. When I was in school, teachers limited the number of internet sources used. It’s understandable that kids are learning how to use online resources and practice time management by quickly citing these texts. My appeal is that in today’s day and age, someone using sites like Wiki should be easy to catch. Search engines are darn good at picking up websites text - so use it - and continue to call them out on it! But that does require work be the teacher. And for the sluthy kids, ask them to repeat verbatim to cite specific text. If you written any text and/or papers, you usually spend time with the cited work; much unlike the point - copy - pasters...
Younger people these days seem to have no care for actually producing good work, but rather just getting by. That’s not to say there aren’t some really hard working kids out there. It boils down to personal decision making and/or parenting.

Truth of the matter is that the teachers are trying to just "get by" also. I personally blame the educational system and politics for these issues, not so much as the student. The student was provided with an additional tool and the work is being accepted by the schools. If the schools are concerned about this, then they should start raising standards, not lowering them.
 
The problem is not the online research itself, but the absence of online access to the books.
When all the books get digitalized there will be no such problem.

Hell when I was in Highschool we had searches that would point to articles in various journals, magizines etc that we could refrence(I'm 25 now). Worked well then and works better now. As more and more data goes digital online research will get better and better.

I know someone that turned in a paper last year that cited a Wikipedia entry as a reference and got an F on the paper because by the time the paper was finished and turned in for grading....the Wikipedia entry had been changed...deleting the data she cited in her paper.

When my friend asked the teacher to go back through the edits made on the Wikipedia page for verification, the teacher said this "No. I am going to put as much effort into grading this paper as you did writing it. I looked at Wikipedia, the entry did not match the material cited so I moved on."

Ouch. That is Wikipedia biting you in the ass right there. :eek:

I would have offered to show the teacher the edits. If they refused I I would have challenged that grade with the school.

Also a unrealistic teacher. What happens if a physical book was cited, do you think the teacher is actually going to rent one and find out if the cited words are factual? No. What if the teacher does and can't locate this cited book?

The reality of it is that teachers are also getting lazy... the door swings both ways. Think about all the teachers who checks citations by simply submitting the paper to turnitin.com... everyone is doing it now... and yet they have an issue with students using an internet source.


Teachers are just as guilty as students and even more so becuase they hold the power to accept works with internet citations.

Pretty much. I have had teachers go back and check book sources though. I had an issue once where a teacher maked some refrences wrong because she used an outdated copy of the book. When she gave me crap about it I went to the principle the day before I was suspose to go to a school board meeting to file a complaint with the updated book. The paper ended up getting graded by another teacher.

turnitin.com and sites like it are crap anyway. I remember last year some students were taking them to court over them archiving their documents for commerical gain. They got copywrights on their papers and sued when the service used their works without premission. I know a few people that have done this with some bigger works they have done in the past as well so teachers couldn't submit their stuff. If they wanted to check it they can do it by hand.
 
It's been a long time, but one of the things that was mandated when I was in school doing reports was citing the BOOKS my reports came from. The premise was simple, you have to draw conclusions from several published sources, so you will also have to read those sources. Encyclopedias (usually) and magazines were not valid/accepted sources and there was no Internet. Drawing a conclusion required actually independently learning something.
 
yeah just wipe out wikipedia... i mean i havent used it EVERY SINGLE DAY for the last however many years... is far more reliable than google... oh wait we're comparing to books... i dunno... if i bought a book for every small bit of information i grabbed of wikipedia.. i'd need a 2nd apartment for all the books that get used ONCE then put on a shelves... books are like wedding dresses.. unless you're a whore or a black widow...
 
I visited the library a few months ago, and they now have 20 internet-capable computers for people to use, compared to just one a few years ago when I was in school. I mean, its a library! You don't need the internet for research - you have books... infront of you!
 
I understand limiting online resources for kids in high school, but for a lot of people who do not have the luxury of attending college at a campus I see no problem with internet resources. I was in the military and deployed the fact that we had computer access allowed me to turn in papers and almost all my research was done online. It may not be as accurate as going to a library, but everything is going to be online one day. So maybe teachers need to spend more time with kids on how to research without the internet, but they could also show them how to use the internet properly for research.
 
Typically I may use Wiki as a starting point of my research. Many of my college professors recommend it, and suggest checking out the cited sources at the bottom of the articles. They warn us however, that even the validity of those sources can be questioned. I try to stay with cited CNN and BBC articles. ;)
 
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